Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)
Hi, On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 7:34 PM, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com wrote: No, many compilers make it totally transparent to the end user. So you don't even have to write any non-portable code (usually). And this goes even beyond obvious 32-bit DPMI DJGPP-based ones (GCC, GPC, FPC, FBC). They do now. They did not then. DJGPP started in 1989. It's not new. And it wasn't the only one. Since you *have* Linux, BSD, and even Windows, which support all that out of the box, why should anyone *bother*? The whole point of a free DOS was to be a free/libre alternative that is binary compatible on similar hardware! None of those OSes do that! There are *many* OSes out there, often touting legacy free. But even they have to start somewhere. Most people don't create their own cpu or write their own compiler. Heck, they port third-party apps over and use similar toolsets and formats that are already available. I mean, some of them even import drivers verbatim! Reuse is the name of the game. It just takes too much work to throw everything away. Sure, some people think it's better to throw things away. Some things are of questionable benefit. But it's certainly not always true. Sometimes you have to live with what you already have. Sometimes the cost of recreating something from scratch is too much. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Edit maximum file size
I see a subject line of No subject; I must have forgotten to copy the intended subject line. Going back to 2001, I used Enhanced Editor (EPM) in OS/2 Warp 4, but was forced off this editor cold-turkey when the system crashed sometime during the single-digit days of April 2001. CHKDSK, running automatically upon reboot, ran amok and trashed my data, and I was never again able to boot OS/2, even from floppies, it always trapped (000c or 000e). So then I used Tiny Editor (T.EXE) and DOS port of elvis in DR-DOS 7.03. As I tried to retrieve data, I ran DR-DOS from floppy and Iomega Zip 250. Tiny Editor was more beginner-friendly, but elvis was much more capable. I believe the vi I use is nvi, not ported to DOS as far as I can see. NetBSD calls it vi, while FreeBSD calls it both vi and nvi, hard-linked. FreeBSD but not NetBSD also has ee (Easy Editor). Gentoo (Linux) likes to use nano when I prefer nvi! Tom -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Don Flowers donr...@gmail.com wrote: What do you run as your production OS? I'm willing to bet it's not a flavor of DOS. Linux (Kubuntu [Ubuntu/Debian derivatives) is my primary OS, but FreeDOS is my secondary OS followed by Windows 7 on one machine only because I recently acquired an HP Elite 8000 for under $100 with W7 preinstalled. I added a second drive for FreeDOS and Kubuntu. I was actually addressing that to Rugxulo, but it's interesting to get your response.. The current desktop he is a refurb Dell box that came with Win7. I maxed the RAM (8GB, for that box), added an SSD as boot drive, and dual boot Win7 and Ubuntu. Total cost when the dust settled was $550, and it's more than adequate for what I do. As for valuing time, I have been disabled since 1990, (should have been dead about 15 years ago), so the time spent is valuable in the sense that I keep my mind occupied if not sharpened. Certainly, but I look at it in terms of opportunity costs. What might I be doing with the time *instead* of trying to keep ancient hardware running? I have enough things that are of higher value to *me* that the time I spend on keeping ancient hardware running is limited, when I don't have anything meaningful to do with the hardware in the first place. What constitutes value is an individual and subjective decision. __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)
What do you run as your production OS? I'm willing to bet it's not a flavor of DOS. Linux (Kubuntu [Ubuntu/Debian derivatives) is my primary OS, but FreeDOS is my secondary OS followed by Windows 7 on one machine only because I recently acquired an HP Elite 8000 for under $100 with W7 preinstalled. I added a second drive for FreeDOS and Kubuntu. As for valuing time, I have been disabled since 1990, (should have been dead about 15 years ago), so the time spent is valuable in the sense that I keep my mind occupied if not sharpened. On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 1:06 PM, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 3:23 AM, Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 7:34 PM, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com wrote: No, many compilers make it totally transparent to the end user. So you don't even have to write any non-portable code (usually). And this goes even beyond obvious 32-bit DPMI DJGPP-based ones (GCC, GPC, FPC, FBC). They do now. They did not then. DJGPP started in 1989. It's not new. And it wasn't the only one. The period I was referring to was at least 5 years before DJGPP began. I was talking about the *old* days when PC meant IBM PC with 4.77mhz 8088 CPU, CGA graphics, dual 360K floppies, and *maybe* 640K RAM. (Lotus 1,2,3 largely forced everyone to go for a full 640K to run enormous worksheets.) Since you *have* Linux, BSD, and even Windows, which support all that out of the box, why should anyone *bother*? The whole point of a free DOS was to be a free/libre alternative that is binary compatible on similar hardware! None of those OSes do that! And you don't *care*, because you don't *use* that original hardware. You long ago got something newer. There are *many* OSes out there, often touting legacy free. But even they have to start somewhere. Most people don't create their own cpu or write their own compiler. Heck, they port third-party apps over and use similar toolsets and formats that are already available. I mean, some of them even import drivers verbatim! Reuse is the name of the game. It just takes too much work to throw everything away. If you are smart, you do go for re-use. Sure, some people think it's better to throw things away. Some things are of questionable benefit. But it's certainly not always true. Sometimes you have to live with what you already have. Sometimes the cost of recreating something from scratch is too much. Lets get serious. I run FreeDOS on an ancient box that I use as a testbed to see what perfomance I can wring out of limited hardware. I do *not* use the box, or FreeDOS, to do actual work. The box is a toy, and diddling FreeDOS is a *hobby*. On the more modern machines, I have a few ancient DOS apps I support via NTVDM (on 32 bit XP), or vDOS (on 64 bit Win7). There is no need for FreeDOS there at all. There is still potential use for DOS in the embedded space, but I expect that is dropping as HW becomes more powerful and cheaper. Embedded systms are increasingly built around 32 bit ARM CPUs, where DOS is not an option but you can run a flavor of Linux or an RTOS. There are a few folks still using DOS to do actual work, and some hang out here, but they are rare exceptions to the general rule. I happy FreeDOS is out there, and it's fun to play with, but play with is the operative word. If it did not exist, I would not miss it. My actual needs are met by more current gear, and there are limits to the effort I'll expend to support older hardware. I place a reasonable value on my *time*. What do you run as your production OS? I'm willing to bet it's not a flavor of DOS. __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/___ Freedos-user mailing list
[Freedos-user] new uide version? details?
Hi, looking at http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/forum_entry.php?id=14140 there is a recent version of Jack's UIDE and other drivers at http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/ellis/drivers-2015-03-05.zip and even newer, from today, in dropbox on http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15785527/drivers.zip but due to some Sourceforge / Opera incompatibility, Jack can not announce it here himself? What is new in which zip? Regards, Eric -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 3:23 AM, Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 7:34 PM, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com wrote: No, many compilers make it totally transparent to the end user. So you don't even have to write any non-portable code (usually). And this goes even beyond obvious 32-bit DPMI DJGPP-based ones (GCC, GPC, FPC, FBC). They do now. They did not then. DJGPP started in 1989. It's not new. And it wasn't the only one. The period I was referring to was at least 5 years before DJGPP began. I was talking about the *old* days when PC meant IBM PC with 4.77mhz 8088 CPU, CGA graphics, dual 360K floppies, and *maybe* 640K RAM. (Lotus 1,2,3 largely forced everyone to go for a full 640K to run enormous worksheets.) Since you *have* Linux, BSD, and even Windows, which support all that out of the box, why should anyone *bother*? The whole point of a free DOS was to be a free/libre alternative that is binary compatible on similar hardware! None of those OSes do that! And you don't *care*, because you don't *use* that original hardware. You long ago got something newer. There are *many* OSes out there, often touting legacy free. But even they have to start somewhere. Most people don't create their own cpu or write their own compiler. Heck, they port third-party apps over and use similar toolsets and formats that are already available. I mean, some of them even import drivers verbatim! Reuse is the name of the game. It just takes too much work to throw everything away. If you are smart, you do go for re-use. Sure, some people think it's better to throw things away. Some things are of questionable benefit. But it's certainly not always true. Sometimes you have to live with what you already have. Sometimes the cost of recreating something from scratch is too much. Lets get serious. I run FreeDOS on an ancient box that I use as a testbed to see what perfomance I can wring out of limited hardware. I do *not* use the box, or FreeDOS, to do actual work. The box is a toy, and diddling FreeDOS is a *hobby*. On the more modern machines, I have a few ancient DOS apps I support via NTVDM (on 32 bit XP), or vDOS (on 64 bit Win7). There is no need for FreeDOS there at all. There is still potential use for DOS in the embedded space, but I expect that is dropping as HW becomes more powerful and cheaper. Embedded systms are increasingly built around 32 bit ARM CPUs, where DOS is not an option but you can run a flavor of Linux or an RTOS. There are a few folks still using DOS to do actual work, and some hang out here, but they are rare exceptions to the general rule. I happy FreeDOS is out there, and it's fun to play with, but play with is the operative word. If it did not exist, I would not miss it. My actual needs are met by more current gear, and there are limits to the effort I'll expend to support older hardware. I place a reasonable value on my *time*. What do you run as your production OS? I'm willing to bet it's not a flavor of DOS. __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] (no subject)
Hi, On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 12:06 PM, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote: There is still potential use for DOS in the embedded space, but I expect that is dropping as HW becomes more powerful and cheaper. Embedded systems are increasingly built around 32 bit ARM CPUs, where DOS is not an option but you can run a flavor of Linux or an RTOS. There are a few folks still using DOS to do actual work, and some hang out here, but they are rare exceptions to the general rule. I happy FreeDOS is out there, and it's fun to play with, but play with is the operative word. If it did not exist, I would not miss it. My actual needs are met by more current gear, and there are limits to the effort I'll expend to support older hardware. I place a reasonable value on my *time*. What do you run as your production OS? I'm willing to bet it's not a flavor of DOS. Dennis, don't take this the wrong way, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. I think you're subscribed to the wrong mailing list. If you don't like DOS, then do without. It's not worth convincing you of anything. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
