Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O

[Ladislav Lacina]

Hm, in the past I used CTmouse but now not because I also had a problems. If
I used CTmouse with Quake or Quake II the game was slower and was a little
bit chopy. With Microsoft mouse driver it works better. I thinnk that
CTmouse has some problems with IRQ processing which makes in the protected
mode the games choppy or unstable.
-- Původní e-mail --
Od: ZB 
Komu: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. 
Datum: 22. 1. 2022 15:54:05
Předmět: Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O
"It was serial mouse used in Microsoft mode ("mouse /3"). Connected to Multi

I/O adapter inserted into slot of my trusty Soyo-SiS mobo. It's Fellowes 
"Combo" mouse, which has PS/2 connector and PS/2 <-> RS-232 adapter
(currently in use).

As I wrote: I did a comparison, and no problem when using gmouse driver 
--
regards,
Zbigniew


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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O

[ZB]

It was serial mouse used in Microsoft mode ("mouse /3"). Connected to Multi
I/O adapter inserted into slot of my trusty Soyo-SiS mobo. It's Fellowes
"Combo" mouse, which has PS/2 connector and PS/2 <-> RS-232 adapter
(currently in use).

As I wrote: I did a comparison, and no problem when using gmouse driver
-- 
regards,
Zbigniew


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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O

[Eric Auer]

Hi ZB,


Please, note: CuteMouse v2.1 beta4 probably is flawed. One day
I was tried it with "Civilization", but when using this mouse
driver the game always has been hung after relatively short

>> period of time (like 30-40 moves) and then I wasn't able to

do any more input (it was beeping at me like in case of
keyboard buffer overflow). Used it as "mouse /3" (Microsoft mode).


Please provide more details :-) At the moment, I am way behind with
reading the mailing list, so if somebody could give me some hints
which threads are most relevant at the moment - thanks!

CuteMouse v2.1 beta4 [FreeDOS]

Options:
  /V   - reverse search: find PS/2 after serial mouse
  /P   - force PS/2 mouse mode, do not probe serial ports
  /S[c[i]] - force serial mouse mode at COM port c (1-4) with IRQ i (1-7)
  /3   - force 3-button mode if Microsoft or PS/2 mouse found
  /O   - enable PS2 and BIOS USB wheel detection (might hang)
  /M   - try *old* Mouse Systems / Genius for non-PnP mice

  /R[h[v]] - horizontal / vertical resolution: h,v = 1-9, or 0 for auto
 (no value = use default: auto for h, or "as h" for v)
  /L   - swap left and right button

  /B   - cancel run if mouse services are already present
  /N   - load CuteMouse as new TSR, even if CuteMouse is already loaded
 (useful for batch files which unload CuteMouse at end)
  /W   - do not allow CuteMouse to move itself into UMB
  /U   - uninstall driver, remove TSR from memory
  /?   - show this help

I would suggest to check whether /3 mode or /O mode work and let
me know whether this mouse is USB or actual PS/2. In the USB case,
the BIOS typically tries to make the mouse visible both via BIOS
PS/2 interrupts and by simulating keyboard controller input on
the port I/O level, because PS/2 shares that controller between
mice and keyboards. The latter can get messy if you have a mix
of real PS/2 and USB, or even when you have more than one USB
device at all, because the BIOS normally expects that only simple
software like OS installers will need that "USB legacy support",
while "real" operating systems for more intense use of USB devices
are expected to have their own USB drivers. So BIOS programmers do
not put much effort into making the support stable and using mouse
wheels in that context is a bit of a hack anyway.

I also recommend to compare different CTMOUSE versions: 1.9, 2.0
and 2.1 for example, which approach the USB and/or wheel topic in
different ways. Thanks for testing :-)

Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O

[ZB]

Please, note: CuteMouse v2.1 beta4 probably is flawed. One day I was tried
it with "Civilization", but when using this mouse driver the game always has
been hung after relatively short period of time (like 30-40 moves) and then
I wasn't able to do any more input (it was beeping at me like in case of
keyboard buffer overflow). Used it as "mouse /3" (Microsoft mode).

No such problem when I selected "keyboard only mode" (not loading CuteMouse
driver at all). Also no problem while using gmouse driver
-- 
regards,
Zbigniew


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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O OR keeping your source code secure

[Bret Johnson]

> a) in germany we have a saying "Kein Backup, kein Mitleid" which
> translates roughly to "no backup, no pity"

> b) one of the advantages of open source software is that you have
> automatically backups on a bazillion of computers.

It happened a long time ago, and I actually did have backups that all managed 
to get messed up around the same time.  I was fortunate that MOUSKEYS was the 
only program I lost -- I managed to salvage all the others.  I don't do things 
that way any more.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O

[manuel azaña]

Ok the editor eding modificstion of cutemouse

Enviado desde mi Samsung Mobile de Claro
Get Outlook para Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>

From: Ladislav Lacina 
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2022 5:30:11 PM
To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net 
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O

The text editor Blocek has experimental support for mouse wheel when using with 
CuteMouse /O
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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O

[Ladislav Lacina]

The text editor Blocek has experimental support for mouse wheel when using
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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O OR keeping your source code secure

[tom ehlert]

>  Also,
> through a series of unfortunate hard-drive problems and corruptions,
> I managed to lose the source code for MOUSKEYS.  So, in order to
> "upgrade" MOUSKEYS to support wheels, I would need to start by
> recreating it from scratch again (basically, I would need to
> reverse-engineer my own program since I lost the source code).

a) in germany we have a saying "Kein Backup, kein Mitleid" which
translates roughly to "no backup, no pity"

b) one of the advantages of open source software is that you have
automatically backups on a bazillion of computers.

Tom



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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O

[Bret Johnson]

> CuteMouse doesn't have any of these "elevating" resources. But
> whatever the mouse sends is passed over to the application. In DOS
> it is up to Appication to uses it.

Not quite.  CTMOUSE does support a mouse wheel, but it has a "special" way of 
accessing it in the Mouse Driver API (INT 33h).  The "regular" API (as defined 
by Microsoft) doesn't include access to the wheel, but CTMOUSE has provided an 
API extension that does.  It is described in the WHEELAPI.TXT file that comes 
with the CTMOUSE documentation.  There are only a few DOS programs out there 
that are new enough to even know about the API extension, and even fewer that 
actually use the wheel for anything.  In fact, there aren't even a lot of DOS 
programs that use more than one button.

As also noted, there is a special series of "hoops" that CTMOUSE must go 
through to "turn on" the wheel in the mouse hardware.  CTMOUSE does that (if 
the mouse supports it).  There is also a second set of "hoops" that CTMOUSE 
could go through to enable the second wheel (on mice that have a second wheel) 
and as many as 5 buttons (on mice that have more than three buttons).  CTMOUSE 
does not currently jump through that second set of "hoops", and the API 
extension that currently exists would not support a second wheel or two more 
buttons even if the hoops were jumped.  It would be possible to modify the 
mouse driver API yet again to support those extra buttons and the second wheel 
if somebody wanted to do that.

BTW, by USBMOUSE program (which enables USB mice to work in DOS) supports both 
sets of hoops if CTMOUSE (or some other mouse driver) is ever upgraded to 
support them as well.  If you're using the BIOS to support USB mice at boot 
time (which is what most people do), you will probably never get the wheels for 
a USB mouse to work in DOS.  The BIOS doesn't jump through the hoops.

There is a program already out there that lets you use the mouse wheel with 
almost any DOS program (similar to what my MOUSKEYS program does with the 
movements and buttons on the mouse).  It's called WheelK and is available here:

http://ninho.users.micso.fr/wheelk

It requires CTMOUSE (the only DOS mouse driver available that includes the 
wheel API extension), along with either a PS2 mouse that has a wheel or a USB 
mouse that has a wheel along my USBMOUSE program (and the supporting programs 
it takes to get USBMOUSE to work properly, which can be many).

As an FYI, I would like to add wheel support directly to MOUSKEYS someday, but 
that is VERY low on my priority priority list right now and don't have hardly 
any time to work on any of my programs.  The WheelK program has some 
limitations that wouldn't necessarily be there if the functionality were moved 
up into MOUSKEYS.  Also, through a series of unfortunate hard-drive problems 
and corruptions, I managed to lose the source code for MOUSKEYS.  So, in order 
to "upgrade" MOUSKEYS to support wheels, I would need to start by recreating it 
from scratch again (basically, I would need to reverse-engineer my own program 
since I lost the source code).

Bottom line is you CAN use a mouse wheel in DOS today provided you have the 
correct hardware and software installed (and getting it all installed is not 
easy or trivial).  But, wheel support in DOS is still a long ways from being 
what it could (or even should) be.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O

[Björn Morell]

The  /O switch makes cutmouse detect scroll wheel.

Den 2022-01-21 kl. 16:59, skrev Mercury Thirteen via Freedos-user:
Most mice operate in a "staged" manner; that is, upon power-up even 
the most sophisticated mouse emulates a basic two button affair, until 
software jumps through a series of hoops to elevate its capabilities 
by sending a series of magic sequences of commands. The problem is 
that most applications only go as far as elevating the mouse to three 
button operation (if that - some perform no "elevation" at all, and 
leave you stuck with the most basic mouse mode) and never even attempt 
to activate wheel mode. Regardless of mode, however, the PS/2 
interrupt (at least for PS/2 mice) fires the same way.


This is done because an interface to the enhanced features of advanced 
mice was never standardized, so manufacturers made do with existing 
commands, but simply gave special significance to certain sequences of 
them which would not normally occur in typical application usage. One 
such example is setting the mouse acceleration with a specific series 
of values instead of the usual procedure of directly setting the 
desired acceleration value directly and leaving it at that.



On Friday, January 21st, 2022 at 10:43 AM, Travis Siegel 
tsie...@softcon.com wrote:


I believe the problem with the scroll wheel is that it doesn't
generate

an interrupt, so if the mouse driver doesn't specifically look for the

scrool wheel, there's no way for the computer or operating system to

know that it is being used. I had a similar problem under windows

several years ago, and the solution was to turn off one of the
settings

in the dos prompt configuration. That also allowed right clicking
within

the dos prompt, (not just on the dos application, so you could select

paste, copy and such), but actually have the right click be passed to

the dos application. That particular configuration item has since

stopped working as it used to. But, on the other hand, it's really not

necessary anymore, since a right click does the proper thing now.
I have

no idea if there's an equivalent option for dos mouse drivers, but
I do

know if the driver doesn't support scroll wheels, then your mouse
won't

respond to the wheel, no matter how much you move it or click it.

Perhaps there's a command line parameter to activate the scroll
wheel on

your particular driver. I've never used the cute mouse driver, so
can't

say if it does have such a parameter or not.

On 1/21/2022 7:25 AM, Björn Morell wrote:

Hi,

The progs I found which can use scroll wheel

4Dos; Help,Select and History

Syschk

MPXplay

I have tried wheelk butit does not make any difference in any
program

I tried,

I really would love for it to work in File Wizard.

Have any of you found other programs or ways there scroll
mouse works ?

Bear

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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O

[Alain Mouette]

CuteMouse doesn't have any of these "elevating" resources. But whatever 
the mouse sends is passed over to the application. In DOS it is up to 
Appication to uses it


Alain

Em 21/01/2022 12:59, Mercury Thirteen via Freedos-user escreveu:
Most mice operate in a "staged" manner; that is, upon power-up even 
the most sophisticated mouse emulates a basic two button affair, until 
software jumps through a series of hoops to elevate its capabilities 
by sending a series of magic sequences of commands. The problem is 
that most applications only go as far as elevating the mouse to three 
button operation (if that - some perform no "elevation" at all, and 
leave you stuck with the most basic mouse mode) and never even attempt 
to activate wheel mode. Regardless of mode, however, the PS/2 
interrupt (at least for PS/2 mice) fires the same way.


This is done because an interface to the enhanced features of advanced 
mice was never standardized, so manufacturers made do with existing 
commands, but simply gave special significance to certain sequences of 
them which would not normally occur in typical application usage. One 
such example is setting the mouse acceleration with a specific series 
of values instead of the usual procedure of directly setting the 
desired acceleration value directly and leaving it at that.



On Friday, January 21st, 2022 at 10:43 AM, Travis Siegel 
tsie...@softcon.com  wrote:


I believe the problem with the scroll wheel is that it doesn't
generate

an interrupt, so if the mouse driver doesn't specifically look for the

scrool wheel, there's no way for the computer or operating system to

know that it is being used. I had a similar problem under windows

several years ago, and the solution was to turn off one of the
settings

in the dos prompt configuration. That also allowed right clicking
within

the dos prompt, (not just on the dos application, so you could select

paste, copy and such), but actually have the right click be passed to

the dos application. That particular configuration item has since

stopped working as it used to. But, on the other hand, it's really not

necessary anymore, since a right click does the proper thing now.
I have

no idea if there's an equivalent option for dos mouse drivers, but
I do

know if the driver doesn't support scroll wheels, then your mouse
won't

respond to the wheel, no matter how much you move it or click it.

Perhaps there's a command line parameter to activate the scroll
wheel on

your particular driver. I've never used the cute mouse driver, so
can't

say if it does have such a parameter or not.

On 1/21/2022 7:25 AM, Björn Morell wrote:

Hi,

The progs I found which can use scroll wheel

4Dos; Help,Select and History

Syschk

MPXplay

I have tried wheelk butit does not make any difference in any
program

I tried,

I really would love for it to work in File Wizard.

Have any of you found other programs or ways there scroll
mouse works ?

Bear

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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O

[Mercury Thirteen via Freedos-user]

Most mice operate in a "staged" manner; that is, upon power-up even the most 
sophisticated mouse emulates a basic two button affair, until software jumps 
through a series of hoops to elevate its capabilities by sending a series of 
magic sequences of commands. The problem is that most applications only go as 
far as elevating the mouse to three button operation (if that - some perform no 
"elevation" at all, and leave you stuck with the most basic mouse mode) and 
never even attempt to activate wheel mode. Regardless of mode, however, the 
PS/2 interrupt (at least for PS/2 mice) fires the same way.

This is done because an interface to the enhanced features of advanced mice was 
never standardized, so manufacturers made do with existing commands, but simply 
gave special significance to certain sequences of them which would not normally 
occur in typical application usage. One such example is setting the mouse 
acceleration with a specific series of values instead of the usual procedure of 
directly setting the desired acceleration value directly and leaving it at that.

On Friday, January 21st, 2022 at 10:43 AM, Travis Siegel tsie...@softcon.com 
wrote:

> I believe the problem with the scroll wheel is that it doesn't generate
>
> an interrupt, so if the mouse driver doesn't specifically look for the
>
> scrool wheel, there's no way for the computer or operating system to
>
> know that it is being used. I had a similar problem under windows
>
> several years ago, and the solution was to turn off one of the settings
>
> in the dos prompt configuration. That also allowed right clicking within
>
> the dos prompt, (not just on the dos application, so you could select
>
> paste, copy and such), but actually have the right click be passed to
>
> the dos application. That particular configuration item has since
>
> stopped working as it used to. But, on the other hand, it's really not
>
> necessary anymore, since a right click does the proper thing now. I have
>
> no idea if there's an equivalent option for dos mouse drivers, but I do
>
> know if the driver doesn't support scroll wheels, then your mouse won't
>
> respond to the wheel, no matter how much you move it or click it.
>
> Perhaps there's a command line parameter to activate the scroll wheel on
>
> your particular driver. I've never used the cute mouse driver, so can't
>
> say if it does have such a parameter or not.
>
> On 1/21/2022 7:25 AM, Björn Morell wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The progs I found which can use scroll wheel
>>
>> 4Dos; Help,Select and History
>>
>> Syschk
>>
>> MPXplay
>>
>> I have tried wheelk butit does not make any difference in any program
>>
>> I tried,
>>
>> I really would love for it to work in File Wizard.
>>
>> Have any of you found other programs or ways there scroll mouse works ?
>>
>> Bear
>>
>> Freedos-user mailing list
>>
>> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>
> Freedos-user mailing list
>
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O

[Travis Siegel]

I believe the problem with the scroll wheel is that it doesn't generate 
an interrupt, so if the mouse driver doesn't specifically look for the 
scrool wheel, there's no way for the computer or operating system to 
know that it is being used.  I had a similar problem under windows 
several years ago, and the solution was to turn off one of the settings 
in the dos prompt configuration. That also allowed right clicking within 
the dos prompt, (not just on the dos application, so you could select 
paste, copy and such), but  actually have the right click be passed to 
the dos application.  That particular configuration item has since 
stopped working as it used to.  But, on the other hand, it's really not 
necessary anymore, since a right click does the proper thing now. I have 
no idea if there's an equivalent option for dos mouse drivers, but I do 
know if the driver doesn't support scroll wheels, then your mouse won't 
respond to the wheel, no matter how much you move it or click it.


Perhaps there's a command line parameter to activate the scroll wheel on 
your particular driver.  I've never used the cute mouse driver, so can't 
say if it does have such a parameter or not.



On 1/21/2022 7:25 AM, Björn Morell wrote:

Hi,

The progs I found which can use scroll wheel

4Dos; Help,Select and History

Syschk

MPXplay

I have tried wheelk butit does not make any difference in any program 
I tried,


I really would love for it to work in File Wizard.

Have any of you found other programs or ways there scroll mouse works ?

Bear




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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse /O

[kargol92]

There is a feature in DOSBox-X that "emulates" a scroll wheel. Scrolling 
the wheel does the same thing as moving the keyboard arrows up and down.


Also, there is a program called TSR - MOUSKEYS, written by Bret Johnson. 
MOUSKEYS emulates any mouse movement (up, down, left, right). In some 
programs where the mouse is not supported, this can be helpful, 
including scrolling.


From what I have read CUTEMOUSE 2.1 supports a scroll wheel. But it 
seems to me that the vast majority of DOS programs do not support this 
feature. So the only solution for programs running under FreeDOS is TSR, 
which will "emulate" scrolling wheel as moving the up and down arrows.


On 21.01.2022 13:25, Björn Morell wrote:

Hi,

The progs I found which can use scroll wheel

4Dos; Help,Select and History

Syschk

MPXplay

I have tried wheelk butit does not make any difference in any program 
I tried,


I really would love for it to work in File Wizard.

Have any of you found other programs or ways there scroll mouse works ?

Bear




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Re: [Freedos-user] CuteMouse v2.1 beta4

[ZB]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 04:38:52PM -0800, Ralf Quint wrote:

> That is rather hazy, as in your initial post, you only mentioned you tried
> "keyboard only", which is not the same as using another mouse (driver)...

Just tried gmouse driver, and this one gave no problem. Yesterday I tried
CuteMouse three times, with XMS, with EMS etc. It blocked the input sooner
or later everytime
-- 
regards,
Zbigniew


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Re: [Freedos-user] CuteMouse v2.1 beta4

[Ralf Quint]

On 2/12/2021 3:42 PM, ZB wrote:

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 03:35:13PM -0800, Ralf Quint wrote:


And have you tried both another mouse and another mouse driver to determine
that the problem is indeed with Cutemouse?

The problem indeed seems to be in the Cutemouse, since without Cutemouse
I see no problem anymore. Only if Cutemouse is in use


That is rather hazy, as in your initial post, you only mentioned you 
tried "keyboard only", which is not the same as using another mouse 
(driver)...


Ralf



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Re: [Freedos-user] CuteMouse v2.1 beta4

[ZB]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 03:35:13PM -0800, Ralf Quint wrote:

> And have you tried both another mouse and another mouse driver to determine
> that the problem is indeed with Cutemouse?

The problem indeed seems to be in the Cutemouse, since without Cutemouse
I see no problem anymore. Only if Cutemouse is in use
-- 
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Zbigniew


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Re: [Freedos-user] CuteMouse v2.1 beta4

[Ralf Quint]

And have you tried both another mouse and another mouse driver to 
determine that the problem is indeed with Cutemouse?


On 2/12/2021 3:22 PM, ZB wrote:

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 11:54:33PM +0100, Eric Auer wrote:


Which hardware are you using

My trusted Soyo-SiS mobo with Fellowes "Combo" mouse.


and which command line options have you tried?

At the moment just "mouse /3" (Microsoft mode).


Have you compared to other
cutemouse versions, in particular in the 1.9 range?

Not at the moment




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Re: [Freedos-user] CuteMouse v2.1 beta4

[ZB]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 11:54:33PM +0100, Eric Auer wrote:

> Which hardware are you using

My trusted Soyo-SiS mobo with Fellowes "Combo" mouse.

> and which command line options have you tried?

At the moment just "mouse /3" (Microsoft mode).

> Have you compared to other
> cutemouse versions, in particular in the 1.9 range?

Not at the moment
-- 
regards,
Zbigniew


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Re: [Freedos-user] CuteMouse v2.1 beta4

[Eric Auer]

Hi!

Which hardware are you using and which command line
options have you tried? Have you compared to other
cutemouse versions, in particular in the 1.9 range?

Regards, Eric



> I've got a feeling there's something in a need for fix; I tried today to
> play Civilization, but using this mouse driver the game always has been
> hung after relatively short period of time (like 30-40 moves) and then
> I wasn't able to do any more input (it was beeping at me like in case of
> keyboard buffer overflow).
> 
> No such problem when I selected "keyboard only mode" (not loading
> CuteMouse driver at all). Anynone noticed something like this?



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Re: [Freedos-user] cutemouse

[Mateusz Viste]

On Wednesday 02 July 2008, Eric Auer wrote:
 Hi everybody,

Hi Eric :-)

 Known issues:

Hey, I noticed some months ago that there is a weird behaviour in ctmouse...
I have a KVM switch, and if I change my video mode, the keyb/mouse are freezing 
for about 1-2 seconds. It doesn't happen if I unload ctmouse, or if I remove my 
KVM (that is if I connect a mouse/keyb directly to my PC). I guess that ctmouse 
is polling the keyboard, and my KVM add some delays somewhere...
Anyway, is there any way to fix this? An example of program which is freezing 
is MS-EDIT. Surprisingly, I didn't happen with FD-EDIT.

bye!
Mateusz
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Re: [Freedos-user] cutemouse

[Mateusz Viste]

On Thursday 03 July 2008, Mateusz Viste wrote:
 Hey, I noticed some months ago that there is a weird behaviour in ctmouse...

Oooops, wasn't meant to go to the group! Sorry!

Mateusz Viste
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Re: [Freedos-user] cutemouse ctmouse 2.1 beta 4 and jwasm news

[Robert Riebisch]

Eric Auer wrote:

 almost a year after cutemouse 2.1 beta 3 I can
 present ctmouse 2.1 beta 4 :-). This is a version
 with debugging output in the PS2 config stuff.

Is this the debugging output or is it garbage?
***
CuteMouse v2.1 beta4 [FreeDOS]
5/3 0/33/3 0/34/3 0/07/@ 0/@7/0 0/04/0 0/0Installed at PS/2
port
7/3 0/30/1 0/12/5 0/5
***

 Compared to beta 3, it adds support for touchpads
 in Dell Inspiron 1501 (where int 15.c204 PS2 ident
 fails) and changes the meaning of /O from disable
 wheel to enable wheel - default is now NO wheel
 because only very few DOS apps use the wheel and
 the wheel detection does not work on all systems.
 Option /M (disable mouse systems / old genius) is
 now ignored. A new option /Y enables old genius.

Why is this text not in doc\ctmouse\history.txt?

Robert Riebisch
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http://www.bttr-software.de/

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Re: [Freedos-user] cutemouse ctmouse 2.1 beta 4 and jwasm news

[Roberta Jask�lski]

 2008/06/03 17:48 +0200, Japheth 
Also bad is the direction
  in which the fields are defined (from high to low), making it very difficult
to convert C headers to ASM include files. 

Flatly against the Intel conventions, which in all respects number all
integers from low to high.


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Re: [Freedos-user] cutemouse ctmouse 2.1 beta 4 and jwasm news

[Eric Auer]

Hi Robert!

  present ctmouse 2.1 beta 4 :-). This is a version
  with debugging output in the PS2 config stuff.

 Is this the debugging output or is it garbage?

 CuteMouse v2.1 beta4 [FreeDOS]
 5/3 0/33/3 0/34/3 0/07/@ 0/@7/0 0/04/0 0/0Installed at PS/2
 port
 7/3 0/30/1 0/12/5 0/5

This is debugging output about the mouse and/or wheel detection.
Note that you can also get debugging output later when the mouse
(-pointer) is switched on or off by an app. I plan to add some
test tool which lets you script PS/2 communication as batch file
at a later point, then the debug output can be removed again.

The tool will take AL and BH (what else?) for int 15.c2 as command
line argument and will display returned register values (only those
which are documented to be relevant after int 15.c2). Maybe there
will also be a command line option to select one of the registers
to be returned as errorlevel (default: carry / error status?) or
to enable repeat on error-please-retry. For some reason ctmouse
never handles please-retry but I do not know whether it would be
worth the overhead...? Are there other suggestions for the tool?

  Compared to beta 3, it adds support for...

 Why is this text not in doc\ctmouse\history.txt?

Because I had focused on the source code and had forgotten that
history.txt is in the zip at all. If you find more problems,
please let me know...!

Eric :-)





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Re: [Freedos-user] cutemouse ctmouse 2.1 beta 4 and jwasm news

[Robert Riebisch]

Eric Auer wrote:

  CuteMouse v2.1 beta4 [FreeDOS]
  5/3 0/33/3 0/34/3 0/07/@ 0/@7/0 0/04/0 0/0Installed at PS/2
  port
  7/3 0/30/1 0/12/5 0/5
 
 This is debugging output about the mouse and/or wheel detection.

But why is it turned on by default? Because it's a beta driver for
testing purposes only?

Robert Riebisch
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http://www.bttr-software.de/

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Re: [Freedos-user] cutemouse ctmouse 2.1 beta 4 and jwasm news

[Japheth]

 
 Maybe it is context sensitive in TASM, 0 in .data and nop in .code?
 I believe NASM has a whole range of ways to align things, including
 pad with user-specified value and pick a multi byte noop machine
 code instruction where appropriate but you would have to check the
 docs which is selected when and which syntax overrides. As for the
 MASM implementation - dunno, too long since I last used MASM ;-).

What Nasm does is not that interesting for a Masm-compatible tool. I changed 
JWasm to the Masm behavior, that is, for 16-bit, NOP, MOV AX,AX and MOV 
CS:AX,AX are used to pad 1,2 or 3 bytes.

 About the direction of same-op and xchg instructions: Can you
 add a syntax for the reverse variant? Afair NASM has this, to
 make it possible for users to control the byte-exact machine
 language generated as some exotic apps may need that...

Currently it's not the time to implement additional options. But I will check 
what Masm does and adjust JWasm accordingly.

 - cmp ax, valuebelow128 uses cmp ax,word in TASM but
   I cannot make JWASM do that - it uses cmp ax,byte
 - adc ax,0 has the same problem as cmp ax,4 ...
 Masm allows cmp ax,word ptr 0 to force it to use the non-sign-
 extended version, but this doesn't work yet in JWasm.
 
 I think this would be pretty useful - the word sized variant
 of that is popular for self modifying code where constants
 are updated later...

It's fixed in v1.8.

 - macro options can be of type rest and vararg only in TASM
 Masm syntax allows VARARG as a parameter qualifier:
 
 Okay then it seems JWasm does not allow it yet ;-)

It does. However, I don't know whether Masm's VARARG implementation matches 
Tasm's one.

 Check the jw-* files in the ctmouse jwasm port: TASM seems to
 let you write constants as combinations of variable names and
 lists of elements to fill in for their bitfield. Elements can
 be skipped and can have default values, as in ,,1,0,,3. You
 can also write lists of elementname=value to describe the value
 of a bitfield variable, it seems. With JWasm, you get either an
 error message or the value 0 in most cases I believe ;-). Good
 examples are the out_ macro invocations I had to replace...

Indeed. I couldn't imagine anyone using bitfields seriously, because there are 
some stupid design flaws. Nevertheless default values and initializers for 
RECORD items are implemented in v1.8.



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Re: [Freedos-user] cutemouse ctmouse 2.1 beta 4 and jwasm news

[Japheth]

 It's fixed in v1.8.
 
 Odd, my report already was about 1.80 ...

Ok, then you forgot to tell us that you have access to a time machine. Because
the versions stored on my site are v1.7 and v1.8pre.

 Then an error message would have been better than a 0 value...

Sure. Looking back, many things could have been improved ...

 there are some stupid design flaws
 
 Which?

most annoying one is that bitfield names are global. Also bad is the direction
  in which the fields are defined (from high to low), making it very difficult
to convert C headers to ASM include files.


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Re: [Freedos-user] cutemouse ctmouse 2.1 beta 4 and jwasm bitfield news

[hsv]

 2008/06/03 08:42 +0200, Japheth 
Indeed. I couldn't imagine anyone using bitfields seriously, because there are 
some stupid design flaws. 

I did, using only the offsets.


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Re: [Freedos-user] cutemouse ctmouse 2.1 beta 4 and jwasm news

[Andris Kluga]

Hi!

Eric Auer wrote:

 almost a year after cutemouse 2.1 beta 3 I can
 present ctmouse 2.1 beta 4 :-). This is a version
 with debugging output in the PS2 config stuff.

 Compared to beta 3, it adds support for touchpads
 in Dell Inspiron 1501 (where int 15.c204 PS2 ident
 fails) and changes the meaning of /O from disable
 wheel to enable wheel - default is now NO wheel
 because only very few DOS apps use the wheel and
 the wheel detection does not work on all systems.
 Option /M (disable mouse systems / old genius) is
 now ignored. A new option /Y enables old genius.

Is there a way to disable/enable tapping?

Currently (on Asus eeePC) I use Synaptics DOS Driver from
http://www.eaglecomputing.com/portables/downloads.htm
but there are no sources and the driver consumes more memory than
ordinary mouse driver.

  Andris

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Re: [Freedos-user] cutemouse ctmouse 2.1 beta 4 and jwasm news

[Japheth]

Hi,

thanks for posting your results!

 - TASM evendata pads with 0, JWASM even pads with 0fch
   I do not know how to change this, I just used db 0.

this is indeed hard-coded in the source and will be used only if a 16-bit CODE 
segment has to be padded by 1 byte. The reason why not just 0x00 bytes are 
used is because runnable code must be generated, as it can be seen in the 
following example:

 mov cx,8000
 align 4
nextitem:
 xor ax,[bx]
 add bx,2
 loop nextitem
 ...

Using 0xFC, however, is a bad idea because it is the CLD instruction, which 
isn't a noop.

 - sbb ch,ch xchg dx,si xchg cl,bh xchg si,di sbb al,al
   xchg dh,bl xchg cx,si xchg cx,bx xchg dl,al xchg dl,ah
   xchg dx,si xchg ah,al (but not ALL xchg instructions)
   all swap the arguments when compiled with JWASM as
   compared to compiled with TASM - I used db ... here.

Since someone has made big efforts to implement these optimizations in the 
Wasm source, I didn't touch them, although I have no idea whether they are 
useful.

 - cmp ax, valuebelow128 uses cmp ax,word in TASM but
   I cannot make JWASM do that - it uses cmp ax,byte

  - adc ax,0 has the same problem as cmp ax,4 ...

Masm allows cmp ax,word ptr 0 to force it to use the non-sign-extended 
version, but this doesn't work yet in JWasm.

 - macro options can be of type rest and vararg only in TASM

Masm syntax allows VARARG as a parameter qualifier:

m1  macro p1, p2:VARARG
 ...

 - JWASM seems to have pretty bad support for record bitfields,
   I had to remove most references to them to avoid broken code

Please provide more details. JWasm copies Masm, and Masm's implementation of 
bitfields isn't very intuitive.

 - JWASM uses only 8 instead of 16 bytes for foo db 8 dup (?,?)

That's a severe bug. It occurs if a question mark is the last of multiple 
items in a DUP argument.

   Instead of .model use16 tiny
   I had to use the JWASM -mt command line option.

valid Masm syntax is .model tiny.

 - you cannot say ERRIF in JWASM

there are various .ERRxx directives in Masm.



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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse locking up; suggestings on things to try?

[Arkady V.Belousov]

Hi!

28-Авг-2006 18:05 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Greenberg) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:

AG Which would recomend we use to work on the widest array of systems...
AG CuteMouse 1.9.1 or 2.0a4? We don't need any fancy support (we don't need
AG scroll wheels, etc), we just need it to be robust... meaning, not to crash.
AG Would you suggest one over the other?

 If you need wide array of systems and not need wheels support -
1.9.1 is your choice. 1.9.1 works with PS/2 mice on higher levels (through
BIOS, not directly with hardware) and, thus, should be more portable and
reliable.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse locking up; suggestings on things to try?

[Johnson Lam]

On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 04:20:04 +0400, you wrote:

Hi,
 If you need wide array of systems and not need wheels support -
1.9.1 is your choice. 1.9.1 works with PS/2 mice on higher levels (through
BIOS, not directly with hardware) and, thus, should be more portable and
reliable.

Agree! 1.9.1 should be kept absolute simple and portable, it works for most PC
without any problem. For sophisticated functions the new 2.0a4 development
thread is better.


Rgds,
Johnson.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse locking up; suggestings on things to try?

[Andrew Greenberg]

Hi Arkady,

Which would recomend we use to work on the widest array of systems...
CuteMouse 1.9.1 or 2.0a4? We don't need any fancy support (we don't need
scroll wheels, etc), we just need it to be robust... meaning, not to crash.

Would you suggest one over the other?

Thanks Arkady!

Andrew


Arkady V.Belousov wrote:
 Hi!
 
 24-Авг-2006 02:51 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Greenberg) wrote to
 freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:
 
 AG We're using cutemouse 2.0 alpha4 under FreeDOS 1.1.35W (Build 2035W),
 AG HIMEM64 3.11,
 
  This (3.11) may be reason. Update to latest edition:
 
 ftp://ftp.devoresoftware.com/downloads/emm386/emmx225.zip
 
 and try again.
 
 AG and FreeCOM 0.84-pre. We're using it on a large range of
 AG systems, and we're getting lots of lock ups (on maybe 10% of the
 AG systems). We don't mind if cutemouse fails and there's no mouse, but we
 AG do mind if it locks up up the system (which is what it's doing).
 AG Any ideas on what we might try to stop it from locking up?
 AG For example:
 AG 1. All of our systems are fairly modern, so there's no COM mouses (that
 AG we know of).
 
  There was changed (fixed) EMM386 so, that it now correctly preserves
 interrupt flag when calling INT15 - whereas CuteMouse 2.0 depends precisely
 on INT15 BIOS services. Before this change in EMM386, CuteMouse was locked
 (at least) in QEMU. This is why I recommend you firstly try latest EMM386
 edition.
 
 AG So should we use /P?
 
  No, PS/2 searched first.
 
 AG 2. We don't understand /Y - if this is important, can someone explain it
 AG to us?
 
  Do you read ctmouse.txt (This is because the Mouse Systems protocol
 defines no detection sequence). Option /Y in the command line disables Mouse
 Systems protocol support and prevents driver installation if no mouse with
 Microsoft or Logitech protocol is found.? What precisely not understand by
 you there?
 
  Let me rephrase: mice with Mouse Systems protocols can't be detected,
 so driver always installs itself on first available COM port (with support
 of Mouse System protocol) if there are no PS/2 or serial mice with other
 protocols. To prevent driver installation when there are no mice at all, use
 /y option.
 
 AG 3. Could this be a memory issue, and /W would help?
 
  I doubt.
 
 -
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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse locking up; suggestings on things to try?

[Blair Campbell]

Probably 1.9.1 for stability.  Although 2.0a4 works quite well for all
of my computers.

On 8/28/06, Andrew Greenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Arkady,

 Which would recomend we use to work on the widest array of systems...
 CuteMouse 1.9.1 or 2.0a4? We don't need any fancy support (we don't need
 scroll wheels, etc), we just need it to be robust... meaning, not to crash.

 Would you suggest one over the other?

 Thanks Arkady!

 Andrew


 Arkady V.Belousov wrote:
  Hi!
 
  24-Авг-2006 02:51 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Greenberg) wrote to
  freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:
 
  AG We're using cutemouse 2.0 alpha4 under FreeDOS 1.1.35W (Build 2035W),
  AG HIMEM64 3.11,
 
   This (3.11) may be reason. Update to latest edition:
 
  ftp://ftp.devoresoftware.com/downloads/emm386/emmx225.zip
 
  and try again.
 
  AG and FreeCOM 0.84-pre. We're using it on a large range of
  AG systems, and we're getting lots of lock ups (on maybe 10% of the
  AG systems). We don't mind if cutemouse fails and there's no mouse, but
 we
  AG do mind if it locks up up the system (which is what it's doing).
  AG Any ideas on what we might try to stop it from locking up?
  AG For example:
  AG 1. All of our systems are fairly modern, so there's no COM mouses
 (that
  AG we know of).
 
   There was changed (fixed) EMM386 so, that it now correctly preserves
  interrupt flag when calling INT15 - whereas CuteMouse 2.0 depends
 precisely
  on INT15 BIOS services. Before this change in EMM386, CuteMouse was locked
  (at least) in QEMU. This is why I recommend you firstly try latest EMM386
  edition.
 
  AG So should we use /P?
 
   No, PS/2 searched first.
 
  AG 2. We don't understand /Y - if this is important, can someone explain
 it
  AG to us?
 
   Do you read ctmouse.txt (This is because the Mouse Systems protocol
  defines no detection sequence). Option /Y in the command line disables
 Mouse
  Systems protocol support and prevents driver installation if no mouse with
  Microsoft or Logitech protocol is found.? What precisely not understand
 by
  you there?
 
   Let me rephrase: mice with Mouse Systems protocols can't be detected,
  so driver always installs itself on first available COM port (with support
  of Mouse System protocol) if there are no PS/2 or serial mice with other
  protocols. To prevent driver installation when there are no mice at all,
 use
  /y option.
 
  AG 3. Could this be a memory issue, and /W would help?
 
   I doubt.
 
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 ---
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 ---


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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse locking up; suggestings on things to try?

[Arkady V.Belousov]

Hi!

24-Авг-2006 02:51 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Greenberg) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:

AG We're using cutemouse 2.0 alpha4 under FreeDOS 1.1.35W (Build 2035W),
AG HIMEM64 3.11,

 This (3.11) may be reason. Update to latest edition:

ftp://ftp.devoresoftware.com/downloads/emm386/emmx225.zip

and try again.

AG and FreeCOM 0.84-pre. We're using it on a large range of
AG systems, and we're getting lots of lock ups (on maybe 10% of the
AG systems). We don't mind if cutemouse fails and there's no mouse, but we
AG do mind if it locks up up the system (which is what it's doing).
AG Any ideas on what we might try to stop it from locking up?
AG For example:
AG 1. All of our systems are fairly modern, so there's no COM mouses (that
AG we know of).

 There was changed (fixed) EMM386 so, that it now correctly preserves
interrupt flag when calling INT15 - whereas CuteMouse 2.0 depends precisely
on INT15 BIOS services. Before this change in EMM386, CuteMouse was locked
(at least) in QEMU. This is why I recommend you firstly try latest EMM386
edition.

AG So should we use /P?

 No, PS/2 searched first.

AG 2. We don't understand /Y - if this is important, can someone explain it
AG to us?

 Do you read ctmouse.txt (This is because the Mouse Systems protocol
defines no detection sequence). Option /Y in the command line disables Mouse
Systems protocol support and prevents driver installation if no mouse with
Microsoft or Logitech protocol is found.? What precisely not understand by
you there?

 Let me rephrase: mice with Mouse Systems protocols can't be detected,
so driver always installs itself on first available COM port (with support
of Mouse System protocol) if there are no PS/2 or serial mice with other
protocols. To prevent driver installation when there are no mice at all, use
/y option.

AG 3. Could this be a memory issue, and /W would help?

 I doubt.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Cutemouse locking up; suggestings on things to try?

[Andrew Greenberg]

 There was changed (fixed) EMM386 so, that it now correctly preserves
 interrupt flag when calling INT15 - whereas CuteMouse 2.0 depends precisely
 on INT15 BIOS services. Before this change in EMM386, CuteMouse was locked
 (at least) in QEMU. This is why I recommend you firstly try latest EMM386
 edition.

Aha! That might be it. We'll give the newer version a try.

  Let me rephrase: mice with Mouse Systems protocols can't be detected
 so driver always installs itself on first available COM port (with support
 of Mouse System protocol) if there are no PS/2 or serial mice with other
 protocols. To prevent driver installation when there are no mice at all, use
 /y option.

Oh! For whatever reason, we just didn't parse the wording correctly.
Thanks for the better explanation. I think we'll add this to our options
- it seems like it might be a good thing.

Thanks Arkaday,

Andrew

-- 

---
   Andrew Greenberg - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 503.788.1343
---


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