Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Rugxulo via Freedos-user]

Hi,

On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 4:30 AM Frantisek Rysanek via Freedos-user
 wrote:
>
> my first PC at home was a 386DX/40 in about 1991/1992

I'm American, but we're roughly the same age, and I started with a 486
SX/25 in 1994.

> All the school had at the time was Pascal with objects

I've become a big fan of Pascal in the past decade or so. Turbo Pascal
was really well done, but there were others too.

> I recall that two of the best students coded a software app in
> Borland Pascal with Turbovision for creating daily/weekly teaching
> schedules for the school. A pretty advanced piece of software,
> considering use of objects / "dynamic data", the data model, and the
> algorithmic manipulation / application of constraints etc.

Impressive!

Niklaus Wirth (RIP) did a lot of teaching, writing, and programming
over the course of his career. His work (Pascal, Modula-2, Oberon, et
al.) either directly helped or inspired a ton of people. Even if you
ignore DOS and Turbo Pascal (or even Delphi), there's still plenty to
learn from him and followers of such languages.


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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Frantisek Rysanek via Freedos-user]

Oh guys, to me the era nowadays is not so much about particular 
software programs - it's about fond memories of many things blasting 
off all at once.

You probably know what happened by the end of 1989 in DDR, CZ+SK and 
elsewhere in the eastern bloc. E.g. our neighbors in PL had a bit of 
an advance start, but to us in CZ, 1989 was the year that the wall 
came down, with a practical change of govt. actually taking place in 
early 1990. That's also when the borders to the west have opened in 
practical terms / the iron curtain was ripped into pieces, western 
consumer goods and computer hardware started flooding in via various 
channels (official and not so official).

In the summer of 1990 I was aged 14, I just finished the elementary 
school (at the time it lasted 8 years) and got smoothly accepted to a 
highschool (called Gymnazium in this part of the world). And, the 
highschool had a room or two with obscure eastern 8-bit computers, 
which were hardly any practical use, apart from a pacman clone and 
Basic. I believe in about 1990-1991, the school also got a room in 
the attic with about 10 shiny new PC's and a small server, networked 
using 10Base-2 Ethernet. The PC's were diskless 386SX at about 20 
MHz, about 1 MB RAM, the brand was "Data Media Corporation" if memory 
serves. I have no clue how the school got hold of those - in 
retrospect, at the time in my country each of those PC's must've been 
worth an annual wage of my father (if not two or three). And, while I 
was not in the "programming" class, I had access "outside of the 
curriculum" - owing that to the liberal access regime (allowed by the 
headmaster), and a polite network admin / IT teacher on site. I 
really cannot thank them enough. 

I certainly remember a lot of games... speaking of fading echoes of 
the  eighties, I figure Larry Leisure Suite would be about right :-)
But perhaps the one fond memory is borrowing a book from the school's 
computer admin: a manual to Borland Turbo Assembler, and reading that 
from A to Z in a few days. This was the closest to an x86 ISA 
reference book that I could get at the time :-) Not that I achieved 
much in bare TASM, beyond the Hello world.

There was no internet. There was a city library with a few relevant 
books. There were maybe two relevant monthly mags.
The BBS stuff was initially inaccessible to us mere mortals.
Hell a PSTN telephone line at home has only reached us in mid 
nineties I guess. Modems were not much practical use and very 
expensive. I had my first encounter with modems and some BBS sites in 
mid nineties (after "graduating" from the highschool) already in 
parallel with my first e-mail address at the university... I believe 
the uni ran e-mail in the LAN over Novell file sharing, the client 
was Pegasus (possibly managed by Mercury at the server). Apart from 
Pegasus in DOS, I recall using a Gopher client, and an early Mosaic 
HTTP browser on a few odd PC's that were beefy enough for Windows. 
Not that the web was much use at the time - until search engines 
appeared, Netscape came about and things started rolling.

To us east of the iron curtain, the PC's have gushed in rather 
abruptly after 1990. Kids of my generation have skipped the 80's DOS, 
and the first practical Windows version around was 3.11. The first 
PC's in my eyesight were 286, and my first PC at home was a 386DX/40 
in about 1991/1992, I believe it had a Biostar mobo = a Taiwanese 
clone. That's where the slope has really begun for me :-)
Owing that to my parents BTW. The PC (and my typing skills) also had 
some use in my mom's small consultancy business at the time, so it 
was not a pure toy and has "paid for itself" within its lifetime.

The programming class at the highschool (= not me) got some serious 
headstart into algorithms etc. The school engaged a teacher in his 
fifties I guess, a slim white-haired pro, apparently with proper 
education and relevant practice. All the school had at the time was 
Pascal with objects, but looking back I have to say that he taught 
the stuff the right way and he knew what he was doing.
I recall that two of the best students coded a software app in 
Borland Pascal with Turbovision for creating daily/weekly teaching 
schedules for the school. A pretty advanced piece of software, 
considering use of objects / "dynamic data", the data model, and the 
algorithmic manipulation / application of constraints etc. Classes 
getting split 50%/50% for some subjects and whatnot...
I don't recall the details, but I remember output on fanfold paper 
via an A3 dot matrix printer, using a fixed-width font with "line" 
characters for the table/boxes.

What a time to be alive, even as a lone computer nerd in a 
"humanities" class... that's where my English originally comes from 
BTW. The "programming" class wasn't nearly as heavy in foreign 
languages.
Apart from the computer nerdy side of things, the grip of Commies was 
gone almost overnight, overlapping with my later teenage 

Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Jim Hall via Freedos-user]

Jim Hall wrote:
> > Same for word processors. We used a few word processors at home,
> > probably copies of whatever my parents were using at work.
[..]
> > I looked through the shareware
> > catalog(*) I subscribed to, and ordered a copy of the most highly
> > rated word processor: Galaxy. It was "only" $100 which was a lot for
> > a student, but much less than the student edition of WordPerfect.

Alvah Whealton wrote:
> I used Galaxy for a long time. Does anyone know if it is possible to
> find a legal version of that program anywhere?

If you mean a legit registered but free/gratis version, then I don't.
I've only been able to find the unregistered shareware version for
download. I don't think the developers behind Galaxy are in business
anymore, or I would have reached out to them to ask if they could
release the full registered version on a website somewhere. (For
example, TRIUS released the activation code for the last version of As
Easy As for DOS [shareware spreadsheet] on their official forums. So
you can go to the TRIUS forums if you want to get the code to use this
great shareware DOS spreadsheet.)


Jim


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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Alvah Whealton via Freedos-user]

On Mon, 2024-01-01 at 18:04 -0600, Jim Hall via Freedos-user wrote:
> 
> Same for word processors. We used a few word processors at home,
> probably copies of whatever my parents were using at work. So I
> learned how to use WordPerfect. And I bought my own "student edition"
> of WordPerfect when I went to university. When the new version came
> out, I just couldn't afford it (the student edition was less
> expensive, but still pricey) so I looked through the shareware
> catalog(*) I subscribed to, and ordered a copy of the most highly
> rated word processor: Galaxy. It was "only" $100 which was a lot for
> a student, but much less than the student edition of WordPerfect.
> 
I used Galaxy for a long time. Does anyone know if it is possible to
find a legal version of that program anywhere?
 
Al Whealton 


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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Louis Santillan via Freedos-user]

On Mon, Jan 1, 2024 at 4:04 PM Jim Hall via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
[SNIP]

> (*) Did anyone else subscribe to a shareware catalog? I know you could
> dial into a BBS to find shareware apps, but I found a catalog that
> tested tons of shareware apps and games and listed the ones they
> thought were the best. You sent in an order with a


I subscribed to TigerDirect in the early to late 90s.  They initially
(during my subscription) offered 3.5” floppies, CDs with dozens to hundreds
of shareware apps, games, and utilities.  I still have a couple CDs on a
spindle somewhere in my office.  Eventually they pivoted to consumer PC
hardware and then finally focused on business hardware including off lease
hardware before getting bought out.

>
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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Rugxulo via Freedos-user]

Hi,

On Mon, Jan 1, 2024 at 6:04 PM Jim Hall via Freedos-user
 wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 1, 2024 at 5:39 PM andrew fabbro via Freedos-user
>  wrote:
> >
> > Whatever programs are most representative, they might have been
> > distributed as shareware.  There's still "trial software" today but
> > not like going to a BBS and seeing hundreds of shareware packages,
> > or getting a CD stuffed with them.
>
> I agree! I first used DOS when DOS was new (1981) but by the time I
> moved to university (1990) shareware had definitely taken hold. And
> shareware was just as powerful as the "commercial off the shelf"
> software but a fraction of the price. And that was a huge deal for a
> university student.

Although I never had any professional use for higher maths (and have
thus forgotten what little I learned in school), there was a cool
shareware calculator UCALC by Daniel Corbier.

* https://www.sac.sk/download/educult/ucalc32.zip


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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Ray Davison via Freedos-user]

Jim Hall via Freedos-user wrote:
I'm thinking about doing a video that shows how to do real work on DOS. 


For me "Real work" included PC setup.

I used System Commander until I replaced it with Acronis OS Selector, 
which I still use.


I also still use:
Acronis Disk Doctor
Norton Commander
WordPerfect 6.2b
Money Counts

Ray



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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Jim Hall via Freedos-user]

On Mon, Jan 1, 2024 at 5:39 PM andrew fabbro via Freedos-user
 wrote:
>
> Whatever programs are most representative, they might have been
> distributed as shareware.  There's still "trial software" today but
> not like going to a BBS and seeing hundreds of shareware packages,
> or getting a CD stuffed with them.
[..]


I agree! I first used DOS when DOS was new (1981) but by the time I
moved to university (1990) shareware had definitely taken hold. And
shareware was just as powerful as the "commercial off the shelf"
software but a fraction of the price. And that was a huge deal for a
university student.

We had Lotus 1-2-3 at home when I was in high school, and I learned a
bit about how to use it then. But as a physics student at university,
I bought my own copy of As Easy As spreadsheet (shareware). It came
with a manual that was great as a reference and to explore new
features.

Same for word processors. We used a few word processors at home,
probably copies of whatever my parents were using at work. So I
learned how to use WordPerfect. And I bought my own "student edition"
of WordPerfect when I went to university. When the new version came
out, I just couldn't afford it (the student edition was less
expensive, but still pricey) so I looked through the shareware
catalog(*) I subscribed to, and ordered a copy of the most highly
rated word processor: Galaxy. It was "only" $100 which was a lot for a
student, but much less than the student edition of WordPerfect.


(*) Did anyone else subscribe to a shareware catalog? I know you could
dial into a BBS to find shareware apps, but I found a catalog that
tested tons of shareware apps and games and listed the ones they
thought were the best. You sent in an order with a check (to cover
copying and shipping) and they mailed back one or more floppies with
copies of the shareware (original unregistered zips) that you picked.
I think they published a new catalog every few months. I'm sure that's
how I found As Easy As. I know I discovered Galaxy, Telix (modem
dialer and terminal, like Procomm) and Mercury (equation solver, from
the same person who wrote Borland Eureka) from that catalog. And a
bunch of games.


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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[andrew fabbro via Freedos-user]

Whatever programs are most representative, they might have been distributed
as shareware.  There's still "trial software" today but not like going to a
BBS and seeing hundreds of shareware packages, or getting a CD stuffed with
them.

I was just chatting with a gentlemen (now in his 70s) who published a small
desktop note manager for MS-DOS (Personal Note Manager aka PNM.COM).  In
1990, I mailed him a money order and a week or two later got my unlock key
by postal mail.  That was software activation in MS-DOS times!

Although I personally remember it more with the Apple ][, there was copy
protection for some MS-DOS disks and inevitably copy protection cracking
programs.  The Apple had a legion of these systems and programs - Locksmith
was one cracker I remember, but there were a dozen other with outlandish
names.  All worked to copy floppies and defeat the incredibly ingenious
on-disk protection schemes publishers used.  In my middle school/early teen
years I attended more than one "sharing party" where you'd show up with a
new box of floppies and leave with lots of new games.  Later, companies
went to "manual checks" where the game would prompt you for word 5 on
line 12 of page 53, etc.

I don't remember disk copy protection as much with MS-DOS, but that's
possibly because I had a job and could afford to buy software by the time I
moved to DOS.  MS-DOS itself was widely copied.  When a cousin got a new PC
with new boot disks, his relatives got an MS-DOS upgrade.  If you didn't
have a hard drive, there was nothing to upgrade - you just inserted the new
floppy next time you booted and you were upgraded.

Besides games, a lot of business software was widely copied - I read once
that for every copy of Wordstar sold, at least 20 were copied.  Someone
said once that they should have given Wordstar away for free and just sold
documentation.

-- 
andrew fabbro
and...@fabbro.org
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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[EdzUp via Freedos-user]

I remember GW-Basic being in one of the first IBM XT machines on rom.

Doom originally was released on MSDOS :)

-Ed

On Mon, 1 Jan 2024, 07:30 Rugxulo via Freedos-user, <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Sun, Dec 24, 2023 at 10:34 PM Jim Hall via Freedos-user
>  wrote:
> >
> > I'm thinking about doing a video that shows how to do real work on DOS.
> > I sometimes see comments on YouTube with people asking "could you really
> do *work* with DOS?"
> > And the answer is of course you can, that happened every day.
> >
> > So I'm collecting a list of things you'd do in the 80s and 90s with DOS
> to do work.
> > Sure, I'll put a game it two in there, but I'm focusing on getting work
> done.
> >
> > What programs or types of programs would you like to see?
>
> If you insist on a game, I suggest something ASCII-based like a
> roguelike, maybe UMoria?
>
> *
> http://ftp.lanet.lv/ftp/mirror/x2ftp/msdos/programming/gamesrc/mor55src.zip
>
> (Although Doom did just turn 30, and its source code release in late
> 1997 got a very quick DOS port with DJGPP.)
>
> While I'm the last person to suggest "UNIX is the answer to life, the
> universe, and everything!", they did have some useful tools that had
> DOS ports. Sed and AWK come to mind.
>
> * http://ftp.lip6.fr/pub/pc/garbo/pc/unix/sed15x.zip (HHsed, compiled
> by Turbo C, circa 1991)
> *
> http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel/stmsdos9709/disk2/DISC2/GNU/GNUISH/MAWK122X.ZIP
> (dual DOS + OS/2, circa 1996)
>
> Text editors were also good, e.g. DJGPP's GNU Emacs or RHIDE or (real
> mode) TDE:
>
> *
> http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel/simtel9703/disk1/DISC2/DJGPP/V2GNU/00_INDEX.TXT
> * http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel/simtel9703/disk1/DISC2/DJGPP/V2APPS/
> * http://ftp.lip6.fr/pub/pc/garbo/pc/goldies/tde40.zip (circa 1994)
>
> Another cool hex editor / viewer / assembler that everyone loved was HIEW:
> * http://ftp.lanet.lv/ftp/mirror/x2ftp/msdos/programming/utils/hiew44.zip
> (but I only remember 6.x or such)
>
> Simtel also had NASM 0.97, which I used to write a really simple
> utility (public domain) and uploaded back in 1999.
>
> * http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel/simtel0101/simtel/asmutl/nasm097.zip
>
> (A86/D86 was also very good for shareware, last updated in 2000.)
>
> In summary: Simtel, Garbo, x2ftp, DJGPP
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Rugxulo via Freedos-user]

Hi,

On Sun, Dec 24, 2023 at 10:34 PM Jim Hall via Freedos-user
 wrote:
>
> I'm thinking about doing a video that shows how to do real work on DOS.
> I sometimes see comments on YouTube with people asking "could you really do 
> *work* with DOS?"
> And the answer is of course you can, that happened every day.
>
> So I'm collecting a list of things you'd do in the 80s and 90s with DOS to do 
> work.
> Sure, I'll put a game it two in there, but I'm focusing on getting work done.
>
> What programs or types of programs would you like to see?

If you insist on a game, I suggest something ASCII-based like a
roguelike, maybe UMoria?

* http://ftp.lanet.lv/ftp/mirror/x2ftp/msdos/programming/gamesrc/mor55src.zip

(Although Doom did just turn 30, and its source code release in late
1997 got a very quick DOS port with DJGPP.)

While I'm the last person to suggest "UNIX is the answer to life, the
universe, and everything!", they did have some useful tools that had
DOS ports. Sed and AWK come to mind.

* http://ftp.lip6.fr/pub/pc/garbo/pc/unix/sed15x.zip (HHsed, compiled
by Turbo C, circa 1991)
* http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel/stmsdos9709/disk2/DISC2/GNU/GNUISH/MAWK122X.ZIP
(dual DOS + OS/2, circa 1996)

Text editors were also good, e.g. DJGPP's GNU Emacs or RHIDE or (real mode) TDE:

* http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel/simtel9703/disk1/DISC2/DJGPP/V2GNU/00_INDEX.TXT
* http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel/simtel9703/disk1/DISC2/DJGPP/V2APPS/
* http://ftp.lip6.fr/pub/pc/garbo/pc/goldies/tde40.zip (circa 1994)

Another cool hex editor / viewer / assembler that everyone loved was HIEW:
* http://ftp.lanet.lv/ftp/mirror/x2ftp/msdos/programming/utils/hiew44.zip
(but I only remember 6.x or such)

Simtel also had NASM 0.97, which I used to write a really simple
utility (public domain) and uploaded back in 1999.

* http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel/simtel0101/simtel/asmutl/nasm097.zip

(A86/D86 was also very good for shareware, last updated in 2000.)

In summary: Simtel, Garbo, x2ftp, DJGPP


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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s ?

[Jürgen Wondzinski via Freedos-user]

Speaking about BBS and CIS:

At that dark medieval times around 1990, CompuServe was the "Master of all 
Bulletin Boards". In Germany, you needed to dialup into something called 
DATEX-P, which had just a handful of access nodes spread over Europe. In 
Germany we dialed into a node in Bern, Switzerland.It was the time of ISDN with 
64 or 128kBit! Even though CompuServe had it's own software (which was targeted 
into maximizing online time, because access was billed by minutes, around 10$ 
per hour), a lot of offline tools were available to just go online, access the 
selected forums, download all new messages, send the offline written answers 
and disconnect. That way those tools saved a lot of money. Famous tools were 
NavCis, TapCis and OzCis. For the latter I provided the german translation and 
distribution. 


wOOdy

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: GeeksCave via Freedos-user  
Gesendet: Sonntag, 31. Dezember 2023 11:13
An: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Cc: GeeksCave 
Betreff: Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s 
?

Hi,

> I don't think any 1980s DOS computing experience is complete without 
> thinking about Bulletin Board Services and the "big" online services.

Yes, I agree with you. I think BBSes were an important aspect of the DOS 
computing experience in the 1980s and early 1990s. Incidentally, I just found 
an old article from BYTE's January 1990 which discusses the "State Of The BBS 
Nation" (Online can it be read at 
https://vintageapple.org/byte/pdf/199001_Byte_Magazine_Vol_15-01_Byte_Awards.pdf).
In the late 1980s I was the "sysop" ("System Operator") of two Swiss BBSes 
based on DOS software and I really loved managing them.

Cleto

--
GeeksCave.com



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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s ?

[GeeksCave via Freedos-user]

Hi,

I don't think any 1980s DOS computing experience is complete without 
thinking about Bulletin Board Services and the "big" online services.


Yes, I agree with you. I think BBSes were an important aspect of the DOS 
computing experience in the 1980s and early 1990s. Incidentally, I just 
found an old article from BYTE's January 1990 which discusses the "State 
Of The BBS Nation" (Online can it be read at 
https://vintageapple.org/byte/pdf/199001_Byte_Magazine_Vol_15-01_Byte_Awards.pdf).
In the late 1980s I was the "sysop" ("System Operator") of two Swiss 
BBSes based on DOS software and I really loved managing them.


Cleto

--
GeeksCave.com



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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s ?

[andrew fabbro via Freedos-user]

I don't think any 1980s DOS computing experience is complete without
thinking about Bulletin Board Services and the "big" online services.

If this was 1988, we'd be talking on a FIDOnet echo, or there would be a
"FreeDOS BBS" whose number we'd get from a text file list of BBSes we'd
download over XMODEM.

Speaking of XMODEM, I remember well when I decided to "take the plunge" and
download ZMODEM...it was a long download at 2400, but made things after
that so much faster.  That tells you something about bandwidth in those
days: did I want to tie up the phone line for a few hours to make the "time
investment" in ZMODEM.

I ran a Telegard board for a little while.  I dearly miss the BBS culture,
because it was fun to login to new and interesting communities, see all the
custom extensions/doors/etc. people had programmed, discover new downloads,
swap messages, etc.  Social media of 2023 is just not the same, and even
traditional internet forums don't have the same charm.

There were also online services.  I never played much with CompuSERVE but
was a longtime GEnie user.  GEnie's TUI interface was Aladdin.  What these
services did better than BBSes was the huge chat (or "CB") rooms, where
you'd be on talking with dozens/hundreds of people around the world.  That
was amazing in the early/mid 80s.  GEnie would have thousands of concurrent
users in the late 80s.

On a different note, Sidekick and its TSR ilk are also an important part of
DOS lore.

-- 
andrew fabbro
and...@fabbro.org
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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s ?

[Bret Johnson via Freedos-user]

> I did not catch how to do LPT interrupt, real and protected mode. It
> would be a great help if there is an example.
> I work with watcom and realized it, but only once, then the ISR is
> never called again.
> May be LPT is not very often used.

It would help to know exactly what you're trying to accomplish.  In DOS you 
normally don't need to access the parallel port at the hardware (IRQ) level 
since the BIOS functions (INT 17h) normally work really well.  If you're 
wanting to do something other than print (e.g., using any of the IEEE 1284 
protocols including bi-directional, ECP, and EPP or downloading the printer 
identification data), then you might need to access the IRQ or at least 
manipulate the I/O port(s) directly.


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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s ?

[Bret Johnson via Freedos-user]

> I'm thinking about doing a video that shows how to do real work on
> DOS.  I sometimes see comments on YouTube with people asking "could
> you really do *work* with DOS?" And the answer is of course you can,
> that happened every day.
>
> So I'm collecting a list of things you'd do in the 80s and 90s with
> DOS to do work. Sure, I'll put a game it two in there, but I'm
> focusing on getting work done.
>
> What programs or types of programs would you like to see?

In the early 80's, I worked in an Engineering department where a bunch of us 
shared a single XT-class computer.  The main applications we used at the time 
were PC-Write (an early word processor) and Lotus 1-2-3.  We also had a 
secretary in the front of the office that used an IBM word processor (I think 
it was called DisplayWrite, but I don't remember for sure) to write "official" 
reports.  I do remember it used EBCDIC instead of ASCII.  And back in those 
days everything was transferred back and forth with floppies.

Later on everybody ended up getting their own networked computer on their desk. 
 We still mostly used PC-Write and Lotus 1-2-3, but we sometimes used other 
programs also.

The Company used an IBM mainframe for all the central services, and one of the 
main applications everybody used was a DOS program called Extra! by AttachMate 
which gave us access to the mainframe from our PCs.  One of the big projects I 
worked on was working with the mainframe programmers to create a database to 
keep track of some of the Engineering systems we worked on.  While the 
mainframe did a good job of maintaining the data, the only kinds of reports you 
could run from the mainframe were the "canned" reports which would be printed 
on paper.

I often needed to create special/custom reports or use special filters on the 
data.  I figured out ways to manipulate Extra! or DOS to extract the data I 
needed so I could manipulate it to get what I wanted.  That need was the main 
reason I ending up writing the first version of my PRTSCR TSR program, which 
essentially does a "screen scrape" of the text on the DOS terminal and sends it 
to a file instead of to a printer.

Another early TSR program I worked on was JOYKEYS, which turns joystick 
movements and button presses into keystrokes.  At the time I had some joysticks 
on my computer at home and thought a joystick might be useful as an input 
device for lots of different programs besides games.  It was a similar 
situation with my MOUSKEYS program, which turns mouse movements and button 
presses into keystrokes.  This allows you to use a mouse with almost any DOS 
program even if it wasn't originally designed to use a mouse.  Of course, using 
either a joystick or a mouse in a program that wasn't originally designed to 
use them as an input device has a lot of limitations that a fully-integrated 
implementation could overcome, but can still be useful in certain situations.


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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Santiago Almenara via Freedos-user]

1991: Learning to program in QuickBasic 4.5 at 11 (summer school), we
didn't have a PC at home at that time.,When we got the first computer in
1993 I got Qbasic 4.5 (almost the same without linker and compiler). I had
to wait for the Internet era to understand the differences between
QuickBasic and QBasic.

I remember I once re-sized the partition by manually editing the partition
table sectors and tracks (I was 13 at that time). It worked I didn't lose
any data. The problem was when I re-sized back the partition to the
original size. My mother almost killed me because she lost her clients
accounting information. (she is a CPA and used Quattro Pro at that time).

El vie, 29 dic 2023 a la(s) 4:16 p.m., Jerome Shidel via Freedos-user (
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net) escribió:

> During the DOS years, I used XTree a lot for moving things and general
> file management.
>
> During the early DOS years, I used Professional Write. Eventually, I moved
> on to the Lotus Suite.
>
> But as with the platforms that came before, I spent most of my time in DOS
> writing code. Mainly that consisted of GW-BASIC, followed by Microsoft
> QuickBasic then moving to Turbo Pascal (and it’s inline assembler).
>
> :-)
>
> On Dec 24, 2023, at 11:33 PM, Jim Hall via Freedos-user <
> freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
> I'm thinking about doing a video that shows how to do real work on DOS. I
> sometimes see comments on YouTube with people asking "could you really do
> *work* with DOS?" And the answer is *of course you can, that happened
> every day.*
>
> So I'm collecting a list of things you'd do in the 80s and 90s with DOS to
> do work. Sure, I'll put a game it two in there, but I'm focusing on getting
> work done.
>
> What programs or types of programs would you like to see?
>
> __
>
> **For myself:*
> *I've done some videos about DOS apps, but nothing like "here's how I did
> everyday work." When I think back to my 1980s and 1990s (especially the
> early 90s) I think of my time at university as a physics undergrad. So
> that's a spreadsheet and a word processor for sure. Probably make a simple
> chart then include that chart in a "lab report" document (or at least leave
> room in the document to print it when I print on a dot matrix printer).
> Probably a dialup terminal to talk to the uni committee lab? File manager.
> And a compiler to write my own tools.*
>
> *The only difference is for the video I'll try to highlight FreeDOS distro
> tools as much as possible, like Doszip for the file manager. *
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>
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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Jerome Shidel via Freedos-user]

During the DOS years, I used XTree a lot for moving things and general file 
management. 

During the early DOS years, I used Professional Write. Eventually, I moved on 
to the Lotus Suite. 

But as with the platforms that came before, I spent most of my time in DOS 
writing code. Mainly that consisted of GW-BASIC, followed by Microsoft 
QuickBasic then moving to Turbo Pascal (and it’s inline assembler). 

:-)

> On Dec 24, 2023, at 11:33 PM, Jim Hall via Freedos-user 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm thinking about doing a video that shows how to do real work on DOS. I 
> sometimes see comments on YouTube with people asking "could you really do 
> *work* with DOS?" And the answer is of course you can, that happened every 
> day.
> 
> So I'm collecting a list of things you'd do in the 80s and 90s with DOS to do 
> work. Sure, I'll put a game it two in there, but I'm focusing on getting work 
> done.
> 
> What programs or types of programs would you like to see?
> 
> __
> 
> *For myself:
> I've done some videos about DOS apps, but nothing like "here's how I did 
> everyday work." When I think back to my 1980s and 1990s (especially the early 
> 90s) I think of my time at university as a physics undergrad. So that's a 
> spreadsheet and a word processor for sure. Probably make a simple chart then 
> include that chart in a "lab report" document (or at least leave room in the 
> document to print it when I print on a dot matrix printer). Probably a dialup 
> terminal to talk to the uni committee lab? File manager. And a compiler to 
> write my own tools.
> 
> The only difference is for the video I'll try to highlight FreeDOS distro 
> tools as much as possible, like Doszip for the file manager. 
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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Petr Ullmann via Freedos-user]

Hi Jim,

I was a kid in late 80s and early 90s but I remember few DOS programs 
that my father used and then many games I played :-)


MS-DOS 6.22 with embedded applications like Edit was first OS I remember 
(later with Windows 3.11). And for programs I remember M602 (Czech 
Norton Commander clone), T602 as text editor and Calc602 as spreadsheet 
editor and some map application from Czech company PJSoft but I don`t 
remember the name.  Then I remember Turbo Pascal and Borland C.


Petr

Dne 27.12.2023 v 20:55 Aitor Santamaría via Freedos-user napsal(a):

Hello Jim,

I'm giving my own view that I've lived from this corner of the world.

As for operating systems/environments, it was mostly MS-DOS 3.X, 5.X 
and 6.22, and of course, Windows 3.1 (before the arrival of Windows95).

I heard of machines having DR-DOS or OS/2, but did never quite catch up.

As for applications, Lotus 1-2-3, WordPerfect and dBase III or IIIplus 
were coping with most of the business market and training market.
I had heard (and seen) of Multiplian and Microsoft Works, but I never 
really heard or watched a big stack of Microsoft's Word, Excel or 
Access until the Windows versions after (and including Office95). 
Lotus AmiPro (Windows only) was relatively known, but WordPerfect for 
Windows (nor, for example, Lotus Approach) never caught up well.


As for programming Borland products specially, I would say.

And finally for graphics design, I would say Corel Draw!. I was never 
an intensive user of publishing software, but around me, the Aldus 
programs (like Photostyler and Pagemaker) were better known to me that 
Adobe's ones, until Photoshop took over.


I know I have mentioned some that are Windows only. I would be very 
happy to see, for example,  FreeDOS+Windows 3.1+Lotus Ami Pro working, 
but I have never tried that myself. Back in this mailing lists, IIRC, 
I posted myself a MS-Paint image over Windows 3.1 over FreeDOS, but 
AmiPro is quite a more complex beast to run.


Aitor




On Mon, 25 Dec 2023 at 05:34, Jim Hall via Freedos-user 
 wrote:


I'm thinking about doing a video that shows how to do real work on
DOS. I sometimes see comments on YouTube with people asking "could
you really do *work* with DOS?" And the answer is /of course you
can, that happened every day./

So I'm collecting a list of things you'd do in the 80s and 90s
with DOS to do work. Sure, I'll put a game it two in there, but
I'm focusing on getting work done.

What programs or types of programs would you like to see?

__

/*For myself:/
/I've done some videos about DOS apps, but nothing like "here's
how I did everyday work." When I think back to my 1980s and 1990s
(especially the early 90s) I think of my time at university as a
physics undergrad. So that's a spreadsheet and a word processor
for sure. Probably make a simple chart then include that chart in
a "lab report" document (or at least leave room in the document to
print it when I print on a dot matrix printer). Probably a dialup
terminal to talk to the uni committee lab? File manager. And a
compiler to write my own tools./
/
/
/The only difference is for the video I'll try to highlight
FreeDOS distro tools as much as possible, like Doszip for the file
manager. /
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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Aitor Santamaría via Freedos-user]

Hello Jim,

I'm giving my own view that I've lived from this corner of the world.

As for operating systems/environments, it was mostly MS-DOS 3.X, 5.X and
6.22, and of course, Windows 3.1 (before the arrival of Windows95).
I heard of machines having DR-DOS or OS/2, but did never quite catch up.

As for applications, Lotus 1-2-3, WordPerfect and dBase III or IIIplus were
coping with most of the business market and training market.
I had heard (and seen) of Multiplian and Microsoft Works, but I never
really heard or watched a big stack of Microsoft's Word, Excel or Access
until the Windows versions after (and including Office95). Lotus AmiPro
(Windows only) was relatively known, but WordPerfect for Windows (nor, for
example, Lotus Approach) never caught up well.

As for programming Borland products specially, I would say.

And finally for graphics design, I would say Corel Draw!. I was never an
intensive user of publishing software, but around me, the Aldus programs
(like Photostyler and Pagemaker) were better known to me that Adobe's ones,
until Photoshop took over.

I know I have mentioned some that are Windows only. I would be very happy
to see, for example,  FreeDOS+Windows 3.1+Lotus Ami Pro working, but I have
never tried that myself. Back in this mailing lists, IIRC, I posted myself
a MS-Paint image over Windows 3.1 over FreeDOS, but AmiPro is quite a more
complex beast to run.

Aitor




On Mon, 25 Dec 2023 at 05:34, Jim Hall via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> I'm thinking about doing a video that shows how to do real work on DOS. I
> sometimes see comments on YouTube with people asking "could you really do
> *work* with DOS?" And the answer is *of course you can, that happened
> every day.*
>
> So I'm collecting a list of things you'd do in the 80s and 90s with DOS to
> do work. Sure, I'll put a game it two in there, but I'm focusing on getting
> work done.
>
> What programs or types of programs would you like to see?
>
> __
>
> **For myself:*
> *I've done some videos about DOS apps, but nothing like "here's how I did
> everyday work." When I think back to my 1980s and 1990s (especially the
> early 90s) I think of my time at university as a physics undergrad. So
> that's a spreadsheet and a word processor for sure. Probably make a simple
> chart then include that chart in a "lab report" document (or at least leave
> room in the document to print it when I print on a dot matrix printer).
> Probably a dialup terminal to talk to the uni committee lab? File manager.
> And a compiler to write my own tools.*
>
> *The only difference is for the video I'll try to highlight FreeDOS distro
> tools as much as possible, like Doszip for the file manager. *
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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Jürgen Wondzinski via Freedos-user]

Hi Jim,
Maybe I can add some tidbits to the “great apps in DOS” saga :=)

I was technical head of “ProLib Software GmbH” at that time. As a Software 
house with up to 40 programmers, we have been a prominent provider for DOS 
development with Microsoft FoxPro, as well as doing training and coaching for 
other companies.   We had lots of programs, which have been used in companies 
of any size. FoxPro/DOS was THE tool for building datacentric applications, 
running first on DOS, then MAC, Linux and later Windows. Regardless if it was 
Cash registers, Merchandise Management, Insurances, Manufacturing: if it needed 
fast data access, then FoxPro was the best tool. And it supported any screen 
resolution with up to 132x60 and any memory provider (EMS, XMS, DPMI).  I 
remember using a tool named “UltraVision” to get the highest Row/Line numbers 
with special crafted fonts (I still have the diskettes, but no serial# anymore )

Even the U.S. Defense Department used FoxPro/DOS to do their worldwide 
logistics and Deployment planning. That thingy was called JFAST and attending 
DevCon sessions about that “app” was one of those jawdropping experiences.  A 
short glimpse can be found here: 
http://portal.dfpug.de/dFPUG/Dokumente/Slideshows/VfpInAction98.pps.  I have a 
private videotape about one of those Devcon sessions from 1993, if you’re 
interested: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AujNq3xu6Q4_nqAarHJRuOev_Xo3cQ?e=hbby6F

Another one was “Countrywide Financial” in USA, the biggest DOS-based FoxPro 
application worldwide, serving many millions of mortgages. That company was 
bought by Bank Of America in 2008 just because of that software, for 4 billion 
$ (in European speak: 4 Milliards). They had hundreds of IT personal to manage 
that beast; and later failed several times to port it to Java due to it’s 
immense options and volume.

Everyone knows about the “Chunnel”, the canal tunnel between France and 
England. They used FoxPro/DOS, because it was the only tool to manage the huge 
amount of data coming in from all those sensors in the tunnel and store it in 
several databases (with 128Gb total it was the biggest database worldwide 
managed in FoxPro tables) for later analysis.

Could go on for hours here :=)

With kind regards from Bavaria

Jürgen Wondzinski
Visual FoxPro<http://www.msdn.com/vfoxpro> Evangelist
Microsoft "Most Valuable 
Professional<http://mvp.microsoft.com/de-de/overview.aspx>" from 1996 to 2009, 
"Servoy Valued Professional<http://www.servoy.com/>“ 2011
My XING Profile<https://www.xing.com/profile/Juergen_Wondzinski>, and 
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/wondzinski> and 
Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/juergen.wondzinski> and 
Twitter<http://www.twitter.com/wondzinski> and…..
GCS d+ s:+ a+++ C++ !U P--- L E? W++ N++ o-- K--? w+++ O? !M--? V-- PS PE !Y? 
!PGP t 5 X R tv- b DI+ D? G e++ h-- r+++ y+++




Von: Jim Hall via Freedos-user 
Gesendet: Montag, 25. Dezember 2023 05:34
An: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. 

Cc: Jim Hall 
Betreff: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

I'm thinking about doing a video that shows how to do real work on DOS. I 
sometimes see comments on YouTube with people asking "could you really do 
*work* with DOS?" And the answer is of course you can, that happened every day.
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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Robin E. Douglas via Freedos-user]

I have lDOSBox on my tablet with WordPerfect loaded so I can always keep
one copy of on going documents.  I always liked WP and a modern version on
my main system.

On Sun, Dec 24, 2023 at 11:34 PM Jim Hall via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> I'm thinking about doing a video that shows how to do real work on DOS. I
> sometimes see comments on YouTube with people asking "could you really do
> *work* with DOS?" And the answer is *of course you can, that happened
> every day.*
>
> So I'm collecting a list of things you'd do in the 80s and 90s with DOS to
> do work. Sure, I'll put a game it two in there, but I'm focusing on getting
> work done.
>
> What programs or types of programs would you like to see?
>
> __
>
> **For myself:*
> *I've done some videos about DOS apps, but nothing like "here's how I did
> everyday work." When I think back to my 1980s and 1990s (especially the
> early 90s) I think of my time at university as a physics undergrad. So
> that's a spreadsheet and a word processor for sure. Probably make a simple
> chart then include that chart in a "lab report" document (or at least leave
> room in the document to print it when I print on a dot matrix printer).
> Probably a dialup terminal to talk to the uni committee lab? File manager.
> And a compiler to write my own tools.*
>
> *The only difference is for the video I'll try to highlight FreeDOS distro
> tools as much as possible, like Doszip for the file manager. *
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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Chris Date via Freedos-user]

I did a lot of programming on DOS, both professionally and for pleasure.
 Clipper databases, the descendent of dBase, was the day job.  I
learned C programming, starting with the Microsoft compilers Quick C and
MSVC, moving on to various other compilers.

Wordperfect 5.1 was in use every day, along with the WordPerfect Editor
for programming and other plain text files.  Lotus 1-2-3 was used all
the time because I developed and taught classes in it.  Creating a
sophisticated 1-2-3 spreadsheet (lots of macros) for a major company was
my first job when I started my own business.

A huge help to me was DesqView, enabling me to switch between text
editor, compiler and command line, all open at the same time.  I've
never used an IDE since.

  Chris


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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[EdzUp via Freedos-user]

Hi,
  I remember using Turbo Pascal and Turbo C back in the day (still use it
now), also Lotus 123 and Dbase 3 :)

Ah the memories :)

Still use Turbo C++ 3 as it's output is faster than open watcom C's
compiled code.

-Ed
EdzUp


On Mon, 25 Dec 2023, 04:34 Jim Hall via Freedos-user, <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> I'm thinking about doing a video that shows how to do real work on DOS. I
> sometimes see comments on YouTube with people asking "could you really do
> *work* with DOS?" And the answer is *of course you can, that happened
> every day.*
>
> So I'm collecting a list of things you'd do in the 80s and 90s with DOS to
> do work. Sure, I'll put a game it two in there, but I'm focusing on getting
> work done.
>
> What programs or types of programs would you like to see?
>
> __
>
> **For myself:*
> *I've done some videos about DOS apps, but nothing like "here's how I did
> everyday work." When I think back to my 1980s and 1990s (especially the
> early 90s) I think of my time at university as a physics undergrad. So
> that's a spreadsheet and a word processor for sure. Probably make a simple
> chart then include that chart in a "lab report" document (or at least leave
> room in the document to print it when I print on a dot matrix printer).
> Probably a dialup terminal to talk to the uni committee lab? File manager.
> And a compiler to write my own tools.*
>
> *The only difference is for the video I'll try to highlight FreeDOS distro
> tools as much as possible, like Doszip for the file manager. *
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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Walter Oesch via Freedos-user]

I did not catch how to do LPT interrupt, real and protected mode. It would
be a great help if there is an example.
I work with watcom and realized it, but only once, then the ISR is never
called again.
May be LPT is not very often used.

Freundliche Grüsse
Walter Oesch

Walter Oesch
Erlenweg 12
3806 Bönigen
www.webdesign-oesch.ch
Tel: 033 822 22 75
Mobile: 076 382 55 58

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Sender
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25.12.23,
08:54:41

Am Mo., 25. Dez. 2023 um 05:36 Uhr schrieb Jim Hall via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net>:

> I'm thinking about doing a video that shows how to do real work on DOS. I
> sometimes see comments on YouTube with people asking "could you really do
> *work* with DOS?" And the answer is *of course you can, that happened
> every day.*
>
> So I'm collecting a list of things you'd do in the 80s and 90s with DOS to
> do work. Sure, I'll put a game it two in there, but I'm focusing on getting
> work done.
>
> What programs or types of programs would you like to see?
>
> __
>
> **For myself:*
> *I've done some videos about DOS apps, but nothing like "here's how I did
> everyday work." When I think back to my 1980s and 1990s (especially the
> early 90s) I think of my time at university as a physics undergrad. So
> that's a spreadsheet and a word processor for sure. Probably make a simple
> chart then include that chart in a "lab report" document (or at least leave
> room in the document to print it when I print on a dot matrix printer).
> Probably a dialup terminal to talk to the uni committee lab? File manager.
> And a compiler to write my own tools.*
>
> *The only difference is for the video I'll try to highlight FreeDOS distro
> tools as much as possible, like Doszip for the file manager. *
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Re: [Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Felix Miata via Freedos-user]

Jim Hall via Freedos-user composed on 2023-12-24 22:33 (UTC-0600):

> I'm thinking about doing a video that shows how to do real work on DOS. I
> sometimes see comments on YouTube with people asking "could you really do
> *work* with DOS?" And the answer is *of course you can, that happened every
> day.*

> So I'm collecting a list of things you'd do in the 80s and 90s with DOS to
> do work. Sure, I'll put a game it two in there, but I'm focusing on getting
> work done.

> What programs or types of programs would you like to see?

Lotus 1-2-3's original series of releases is where it has to start. I used it 
for
several years at home and at work before adding WordPerfect (5.1 initially,
eventually 6.2) and NC. After discovering Quattro Pro 4.0 I switched, but kept 
the
optional use of 1-2-3 style menus. I'm still using the last QPro for DOS version
5.6 (according to its README), under eComStation (OS/2 evolved) @132x43 text 
mode
(800x600) using Radeon X600 in Core2Duo.  I still have Paradox for DOS too, 
4.02.
Before Warp 4 I was running them all several years in DesqView 386 with QEMM on 
PC
DOS again after a few years with MS DOS 5 post-PC DOS 3.3. My eCS Core2Duo still
can boot PC DOS 2000 too.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata


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[Freedos-user] What DOS programs represent the 1980s and early 90s?

[Jim Hall via Freedos-user]

I'm thinking about doing a video that shows how to do real work on DOS. I
sometimes see comments on YouTube with people asking "could you really do
*work* with DOS?" And the answer is *of course you can, that happened every
day.*

So I'm collecting a list of things you'd do in the 80s and 90s with DOS to
do work. Sure, I'll put a game it two in there, but I'm focusing on getting
work done.

What programs or types of programs would you like to see?

__

**For myself:*
*I've done some videos about DOS apps, but nothing like "here's how I did
everyday work." When I think back to my 1980s and 1990s (especially the
early 90s) I think of my time at university as a physics undergrad. So
that's a spreadsheet and a word processor for sure. Probably make a simple
chart then include that chart in a "lab report" document (or at least leave
room in the document to print it when I print on a dot matrix printer).
Probably a dialup terminal to talk to the uni committee lab? File manager.
And a compiler to write my own tools.*

*The only difference is for the video I'll try to highlight FreeDOS distro
tools as much as possible, like Doszip for the file manager. *
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