Re: [Freedos-user] Why DOS shouldn't be emulated...
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Michael Robinson wrote: > There has been a fair amount of just run it under emulation being said. > One of the advantages of DOS is that it isn't a modern operating system. > An easy way to install Freedos safely to a desktop computer involves the > following: > [...] > > Now on a 64 bit computer, Freedos may have to be run under emulation. > A variant of these instructions is to get a PIII or P4 32 bit computer > and dedicate that to Freedos. > > The problem with emulation is that you are throwing the simplicity of > DOS away and introducing compatibility issues. Emulation is getting > better and if you are constantly rebooting between Freedos and Linux or > Freedos and Windows, emulation may be a necessity. Still, a good KVM > switch and a dedicated DOS computer also solves the reboot issue. > Freedos will work fine on anything from an 8086 up to a Pentium 4. > Don't underestimate the utility of dedicating a computer to DOS. > > A thought that comes to mind is that you don't want to worry about your > kids who are interested in playing video games screwing up your > computer. A dedicated DOS machine makes a lot of sense for that. > Hardware is sometimes better for running DOS, and sometimes a virtual machine is better for running DOS. It really depends on what you are doing. For example, when I'm writing code for FreeDOS, I'll have a copy of FreeDOS booted in DOSemu. I run Linux, with lots of nifty developer tools and editors, and I just find it's easier for me to do my FreeDOS work there (say, in GNU emacs) while I also have a web browser open for email, or Facebook, or whatever. When it's time to compile, I just bring up the DOSemu window and compile under FreeDOS. Doing this in DOSemu is great for my coding because DOSemu can boot an instance of FreeDOS from a directory on Linux. So when I edit files under Linux, I'm saving them to a directory under Linux, and they are immediately visible to the FreeDOS session in DOSemu. However, let's say I wanted to play DOS games. I might do that under an emulator like DOSemu (and I have) but in certain cases the emulator might just get in the way, not emulate the hardware as well as the DOS game would like. So in that case, it would be better to set up a dedicated PC to play those games. I've helped several friends to do this, set up an older machine (which would otherwise be tossed out) to play DOS games. That old PC may not run the latest version of Windows very well, but it does a great job of playing DOS games. Similarly, there are lots of cases where dedicated hardware is better. Controllers, embedded systems, etc. all require actual hardware to do the job. You wouldn't set up a Linux box just to run DOSemu + FreeDOS, to support an embedded application. You can do a multiboot system with FreeDOS on it, no problem. What you've described would work. I used to use a program called PC Commander (I think that was the name) that was a great multiple operating system loader, and we used this at my work when we first moved to Windows 95, long ago. GRUB, XaoS, and other free boot loaders will do the same job. My personal preference is: if I'm going to set up a hardware system with FreeDOS on it, I'd rather it be a dedicated system. Nothing wrong with doing a multiboot system, just my preference. Simpler that way, less to go wrong. -jh -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why DOS shouldn't be emulated...
> Actually a GOOD thing in emulation is that you do not need DOS > drivers for all your new hardware, be it for example UMTS or WLAN > internet, HDA or AC97 sound, USB or Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, > touchpad, tablet... This _can_ be a good thing, depending on the emulator. The emulation of various devices can be flaky or non-existent, depending on the scenario. I have a terrible time with the keyboard in VirtualPC under Vista, e.g. Some emulators won't let you access a "real" hard drive partition with DOS in the VM -- effectively making each virtual machine totally independent of the others with no way (or at least no direct way) to share data. Or, even if they do, access to the "real" partition is annoyingly slow. Emulators are not a complete answer -- you are merely trading one set of problems with a different one. In general, I find "real" DOS much easier to live with than emulated DOS. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why DOS shouldn't be emulated...
Hi! Of course you can install DOS on a computer for itself or on a harddisk for itself. You can also install it on a partition, while other operating systems have the other partitions. The more of the PC DOS has for itself the smaller the risk is to damage other data, sure :-) I myself would say that if you use your existing other OS to make a dedicated primary FAT partition for DOS, and if the other OS does not even need FAT partitions for itself, then the risk of DOS damaging other data is very small, as long as you do not use FDISK or so. > 64 bit computer, Freedos may have to be run under emulation. Not really - basically all 64 bit PC CPU boot in DOS compatible modes. You simply miss the chance to use more than 4 GB of RAM because DOS does not activate the 64 bit addressing mode. Similarily, DOS does not activate CPU cores, so it runs only on ONE core, the one from which the BIOS loads DOS. If you have 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 12 or even 16 CPU cores (AMD has that in 1 single CPU...) then all the extra cores are idle and useless while you use "only" DOS on "too modern PC". But still, you CAN easily run DOS there, so you save space and energy compared to putting a second PC with a Pentium III or other classic CPU next to your hyper modern computer... > The problem with emulation is that you are throwing the simplicity of > DOS away and introducing compatibility issues. Emulation is getting > better and if you are constantly rebooting between Freedos and Linux or > Freedos and Windows, emulation may be a necessity. Emulation allows you to run and "boot" one or even multiple DOS (-windows) without having to interrupt your activities on the other (host) operating system. Actually a GOOD thing in emulation is that you do not need DOS drivers for all your new hardware, be it for example UMTS or WLAN internet, HDA or AC97 sound, USB or Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, touchpad, tablet... They are just driven by the host operating system and Dosemu or a complete virtual PC in which you install DOS or other "classic" operating systems only see an emulation of classic equivalents, for example NE2000 LAN, SoundBlaster sound, PS/2 keyboard and mouse... If you only switch the screen between old and new PC then you are always in an either-or situation of what you see - DOS or the system of the new PC, although both RUN at the same time and you avoid rebooting... > A thought that comes to mind is that you don't want to worry about your > kids who are interested in playing video games screwing up your > computer. A dedicated DOS machine makes a lot of sense for that. Definitely :-) You can give your kids a separate user account on a new PC as well, but that does not help when they spill the lemonade over it while gaming ;-) On the other hand, it might be hard to get a PC which is so old that it can only run DOS. You may still want to install a dual-boot with Linux or (if you have some spare licenses) Windows so they can also play games or even do smarter things on those operating systems, too. Eric :-) -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why DOS shouldn't be emulated...
> An easy way to install Freedos safely to a desktop computer > involves the following: > > 0) Back up all existing systems. > > 1) Disconnect all existing hard drives. > > 2) Buy a hard disk to put Freedos on, if you have room for > another one and a place to plug in. > > 3) Install Freedos to the whole entire hard drive or however you > want to install it, maybe you want to put Linux on there too ;-) > > 4) Hook all the drives back up. > > 5) Adjust your bios appropriately. > > 6) Use BootIT bare metal or grub or something similar to set up > booting for all of your OSes. Even that's overkill, and won't necessarily work on a laptop (where you usually can't install a second hard drive). I just got a new laptop, and with the help of BootIt NG (older version than the new "Bare Metal") was able to resize and move the Win7 NTFS partition, create and format a DOS FAT32 partition, and set up a dual boot system for Win7 & DOS. I even did this all from a USB floppy -- didn't even need a CD or flash drive (though those can be used, too). BootIt is a _great_ program -- well worth the money if you ask me. > Don't underestimate the utility of dedicating a computer to DOS. I have one of those, too (an older 350 MHz AMD K6-2 that is WAY more than capable of running DOS). -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] Why DOS shouldn't be emulated...
There has been a fair amount of just run it under emulation being said. One of the advantages of DOS is that it isn't a modern operating system. An easy way to install Freedos safely to a desktop computer involves the following: 0) Back up all existing systems. 1) Disconnect all existing hard drives. 2) Buy a hard disk to put Freedos on, if you have room for another one and a place to plug in. 3) Install Freedos to the whole entire hard drive or however you want to install it, maybe you want to put Linux on there too ;-) 4) Hook all the drives back up. 5) Adjust your bios appropriately. 6) Use BootIT bare metal or grub or something similar to set up booting for all of your OSes. Now on a 64 bit computer, Freedos may have to be run under emulation. A variant of these instructions is to get a PIII or P4 32 bit computer and dedicate that to Freedos. The problem with emulation is that you are throwing the simplicity of DOS away and introducing compatibility issues. Emulation is getting better and if you are constantly rebooting between Freedos and Linux or Freedos and Windows, emulation may be a necessity. Still, a good KVM switch and a dedicated DOS computer also solves the reboot issue. Freedos will work fine on anything from an 8086 up to a Pentium 4. Don't underestimate the utility of dedicating a computer to DOS. A thought that comes to mind is that you don't want to worry about your kids who are interested in playing video games screwing up your computer. A dedicated DOS machine makes a lot of sense for that. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
