Re: [Freedos-user] OpenGEM 5 freezes/hangs/locks on FreeDOS 0.9 SR2
In the course of off-list discussion, I tested this problem much more extensively than I reported here. My own conclusion was similar to your Situation #3: HIMEM and EMM386 are not at issue, and OpenGEM has one or more incompatibilities with the FreeDOS kernel. But I found further that the problem appeared on FAT32 partitions and not on FAT16 partitions. Perhaps that will further narrow the inquiry. --John Hupp - Original Message - From: Michael Devore To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 2:35 AM Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] OpenGEM 5 freezes/hangs/locks on FreeDOS 0.9 SR2 At 11:38 AM 6/5/2006 -0400, John Hupp wrote: I am using current stable: kernel - 1.1.35 Build 2035b-cvs, 2006-05-21 freecom - 0.84-pre XMS_Swap, 2006-05-21 himem + emm386 - from emmx208 or emm208x ZIP archive I might have added to the original post by saying that this problem does not occur on an older 486 SX2-50 (no math coprocessor) in an ISA-only motherboard. Only on this newer Pentium 100 with PCI + ISA. I could also have added that all my DOS games (Doom, Quake, Duke, Spacequest, Beneath A Steel Sky) run fine on this computer and configuration. On the chance that there was a physical memory problem I dropped from 16 to 8 MB (no difference), and then also swapped in the extra 8 MB (no difference). One thing I noticed in further testing was that Draw, Paint and Doodle have the most problems. All freehand programs. And if they load successfully, then they work until you try to close them. Artline is rather stable by comparison, though it does not seem to offer a freehand tool, at least that I could find quickly. If I drop all the way to no HIMEM and no EMM386, there is insufficient memory to run Artline or Paint. Draw, Write, Tetris, Scgem, and Fanwor all seemed to work. But Doodle locks the machine when it closes. Okay, I tested OpenGEM 5 under FreeDOS and was able to get lockups at various times, using HIMEM with or without EMM386 loaded. Unfortunately, I was also able to get out of memory errors and lockups after working with different OpenGEM utilities under Microsoft HIMEM on a FreeDOS kernel. This was on a Athlon 3000+ machine. The lockups were hard, i.e. Ctrl-Alt-Del did not recover. This may be because OpenGEM controls the keyboard vectoring, and it is possibly still alive under the lockup, although for the user's purposes, that may be a distinction without a difference. Anyway, given that the problem occurs with Microsoft memory managers, I believe you have one of three situations: 1. OpenGEM 5 has one or more operational bugs, OR 2. OpenGEM 5 or its underlying language (TP?) has one or more problems with very fast machines or machines with large amounts of free extended memory, OR 3. OpenGEM has one or more incompatibilities with the FreeDOS kernel. I don't think whatever is happening is a fault of either FreeDOS HIMEM or EMM386, since similar problems can occur without either loaded. Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] OpenGEM 5 freezes/hangs/locks on FreeDOS 0.9 SR2
John Hupp wrote: In the course of off-list discussion, I tested this problem much more extensively than I reported here. My own conclusion was similar to your Situation #3: HIMEM and EMM386 are not at issue, and OpenGEM has one or more incompatibilities with the FreeDOS kernel. But I found further that the problem appeared on FAT32 partitions and not on FAT16 partitions. Perhaps that will further narrow the inquiry. John did indeed debug this quite extensively in a three-way conversation with Eric and myself. The results were: PRELIMINARY CONCLUSION: FreeDOS FAT32 support in FreeCOM/Kernel (wherever that support is located) seems to be the problem. It is [...] interesting that not all GEM apps trigger problems under FAT32. Fgdoodle seems to be the worst, and then the other freehand drawing apps Draw and Paint. So graphical rendering methods connect those. CASE 1: MS-DOS HIMEM on FAT32 Gem Desktop locks at quit Draw, Doodle and Paint all lock at start CASE 2: FreeDOS HIMEM on FAT32 Gem Desktop quits OK Draw, Paint all start OK, allow me to scribble a bit, and quit OK Doodle locks at quit CASE 3: MS-DOS HIMEM on FAT16 Everything works OK CASE 4: FreeDOS HIMEM on FAT16 Everything works OK OpenGEM runs fine on MS DOS machines running FAT32, as well as under Windows running FAT32. Regards Shane PS: John is my personal hero for having spent so much time working on this! -- Shane Martin Coughlan e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] m: +447773180107 (UK) +353862262570 (Ire) w: www.opendawn.com --- OpenPGP: http://www.opendawn.com/shane/publickey.asc Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] OpenGEM 5 freezes/hangs/locks on FreeDOS 0.9 SR2
Shane M. Coughlan wrote: John Hupp wrote: In the course of off-list discussion, I tested this problem much more extensively than I reported here. My own conclusion was similar to your Situation #3: HIMEM and EMM386 are not at issue, and OpenGEM has one or more incompatibilities with the FreeDOS kernel. But I found further that the problem appeared on FAT32 partitions and not on FAT16 partitions. Perhaps that will further narrow the inquiry. John did indeed debug this quite extensively in a three-way conversation with Eric and myself. The results were: PRELIMINARY CONCLUSION: FreeDOS FAT32 support in FreeCOM/Kernel (wherever that support is located) seems to be the problem. It is [...] interesting that not all GEM apps trigger problems under FAT32. Fgdoodle seems to be the worst, and then the other freehand drawing apps Draw and Paint. So graphical rendering methods connect those. ... Could you (off list if you want) send me a more or less detailed description of which files to get and run and I will see if I can find the kernel issue. Two questions though, did you try with 4DOS or MS Command.com to rule out FreeCom issues (not sure why it would cause it, but I do know it sometimes causes weird issues) and was this with dev kernel, stable kernel, or both? Thanks, Jeremy - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] OpenGEM 5 freezes/hangs/locks on FreeDOS 0.9 SR2
My (pure) FreeDOS installation was as loaded by the 0.9 Beta SR2 CD, except that I updated the kernel and freecom. I was using current *stable*: kernel - 1.1.35 Build 2035b-cvs, 2006-05-21 freecom - 0.84-pre XMS_Swap, 2006-05-21 himem + emm386 - from emmx208 or emm208x ZIP archive (though that was a moot point when running tests without either) You can run with a test configuration like this: BUFFERS=30 FILES=40 SHELL=C:\command.com C:\ /E:512 /P=C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT - SET DOSDIR=C:\FDOS SET TEMP=C:\FDOS\TEMP SET TMP=C:\FDOS\TEMP CTMOUSE I was using OpenGEM Release 5, the Complete version downloadable from http://gem.shaneland.co.uk/fullversions.html Install everything on a FAT32 partition to see the problem behavior (or on a FAT16 partition to see everything working fine). The GEM apps triggering the problems are Doodle, Draw and Paint, though if you run without HIMEM you won't have enough memory to run Paint. I did test with COMMAND.COM from MS-DOS 6.22 and got the same results as with FreeCOM. --John Hupp - Original Message - From: Kenneth J. Davis To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] OpenGEM 5 freezes/hangs/locks on FreeDOS 0.9 SR2 Shane M. Coughlan wrote: John Hupp wrote: In the course of off-list discussion, I tested this problem much more extensively than I reported here. My own conclusion was similar to your Situation #3: HIMEM and EMM386 are not at issue, and OpenGEM has one or more incompatibilities with the FreeDOS kernel. But I found further that the problem appeared on FAT32 partitions and not on FAT16 partitions. Perhaps that will further narrow the inquiry. John did indeed debug this quite extensively in a three-way conversation with Eric and myself. The results were: PRELIMINARY CONCLUSION: FreeDOS FAT32 support in FreeCOM/Kernel (wherever that support is located) seems to be the problem. It is [...] interesting that not all GEM apps trigger problems under FAT32. Fgdoodle seems to be the worst, and then the other freehand drawing apps Draw and Paint. So graphical rendering methods connect those. ... Could you (off list if you want) send me a more or less detailed description of which files to get and run and I will see if I can find the kernel issue. Two questions though, did you try with 4DOS or MS Command.com to rule out FreeCom issues (not sure why it would cause it, but I do know it sometimes causes weird issues) and was this with dev kernel, stable kernel, or both? Thanks, Jeremy - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] OpenGEM 5 freezes/hangs/locks on FreeDOS 0.9 SR2
John Hupp wrote: I went into this round of tests with this configuration, and cut back progressively as I describe below: LASTDRIVE=Z BUFFERS=30 FILES=40 DOS=HIGH,UMB DOSDATA=UMB DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\HIMEM.EXE DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\EMM386.EXE NOEMS X=TEST VDS SHELL=C:\command.com C:\ /E:512 /P=C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT Hi John As you pointed out the combination of FreeDOS Beta9sr2 and OpenGEM is working on a 486 machine, but there are weird errors when running the same setup with the same configuration on a Pentium machine. Let's see what happens if you have no HIMEN or EMM386. Will OpenGEM run applications correctly then? I'm wondering if it is possible that OpenGEM applications are making calls that the Pentium system is handling differently to the 486 system. Perhaps Eric could enlighten regarding this possibility? What is interesting here is that OpenGEM works fine under Windows 95/98/XP on Pentium class machines. I've also had no reports of errors like this from people using OpenGEM with FreeDOS before, so either something is happening with the particular kernel and freecom files in this distribution or it may be an issue with calling higher memory? Shane -- Shane Martin Coughlan e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] m: +447773180107 w: www.shaneland.co.uk --- Projects: http://mobility.opendawn.comhttp://gem.opendawn.com http://enigmail.mozdev.org http://www.winpt.org --- Organisations: http://www.fsfeurope.orghttp://www.fsf.org http://www.labour.org.ukhttp://www.opensourceacademy.gov.uk --- OpenPGP: http://www.shaneland.co.uk/personalpages/shane/files/publickey.asc ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] OpenGEM 5 freezes/hangs/locks on FreeDOS 0.9 SR2
I have more to report on this problem. I am using current stable: kernel - 1.1.35 Build 2035b-cvs, 2006-05-21 freecom - 0.84-pre XMS_Swap, 2006-05-21 himem + emm386 - from emmx208 or emm208x ZIP archive I might have added to the original postby saying that this problem does not occur on an older 486 SX2-50 (no math coprocessor) in an ISA-only motherboard. Only on this newer Pentium 100 with PCI + ISA. I could also have added that all my DOS games (Doom, Quake, Duke, Spacequest, Beneath A Steel Sky) run fine on this computer and configuration. On the chance that there was a physical memory problem I dropped from 16 to 8 MB (no difference), and then also swapped in the extra 8 MB (no difference). One thing I noticed in further testing was that Draw, Paint and Doodle have the most problems. All freehand programs. And if they load successfully, then they work until you try to close them. Artline is rather stable by comparison, though it does not seem to offer a freehand tool, at least that I could find quickly. If I drop all the way to no HIMEM and no EMM386, there is insufficient memory to run Artline or Paint. Draw, Write, Tetris, Scgem, and Fanwor all seemed to work. But Doodle locks the machine when it closes. If I add back HIMEM but not EMM386, Doodle causes a reboot while it is loading. And Write and Draw lock up the machine while loading. If I add back HIMEM and EMM386, Doodle, Draw and Paint all lock up the machine while closing. I saw a thread (March?) in the OpenGEM-dev list that for the OpenGEM/XM project, there was a user who, when he was running more than one GEM app with graphics under FreeDOS, there was some kind of interference. The opinion there was that the problem wastraceable to the FreeDOS kernel, because the problem did not occur with a couple of other DOS kernels. This sort of behavior seemed related to what I am experiencing on this computer. --John Hupp P.S. my test config autoexec,further simplified from the originally reported configurations -more mod reportsabove: LASTDRIVE=ZBUFFERS=30FILES=40DOS=HIGH,UMBDEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\HIMEM.EXEDEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\EMM386.EXE NOEMS X=TEST VDSSHELL=C:\command.com C:\ /E:512 /P=C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT -- SET PROMPT=$P$GSET DOSDIR=C:\FDOSSET PATH=C:\NET;C:\;C:\FDOS\bin;C:\DOSSHELL;C:\PKZIPSET TEMP=C:\FDOS\TEMPSET TMP=C:\FDOS\TEMP CTMOUSE ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] OpenGEM 5 freezes/hangs/locks on FreeDOS 0.9 SR2
At 11:38 AM 6/5/2006 -0400, John Hupp wrote: I could also have added that all my DOS games (Doom, Quake, Duke, Spacequest, Beneath A Steel Sky) run fine on this computer and configuration. On the chance that there was a physical memory problem I dropped from 16 to 8 MB (no difference), and then also swapped in the extra 8 MB (no difference). One thing I noticed in further testing was that Draw, Paint and Doodle have the most problems. All freehand programs. And if they load successfully, then they work until you try to close them. Artline is rather stable by comparison, though it does not seem to offer a freehand tool, at least that I could find quickly. If I drop all the way to no HIMEM and no EMM386, there is insufficient memory to run Artline or Paint. Draw, Write, Tetris, Scgem, and Fanwor all seemed to work. But Doodle locks the machine when it closes. If I add back HIMEM but not EMM386, Doodle causes a reboot while it is loading. And Write and Draw lock up the machine while loading. If I add back HIMEM and EMM386, Doodle, Draw and Paint all lock up the machine while closing. I'm in the middle of working full-time on two different projects, but I might be able to take a look at this in a week or two. Probably not sooner and possibly later. I'll need a download link for the problematic GEM, though. If it's kernel, I likely won't be able to help further. You might also try EMM386 NOALTBOOT option. I know GEOS needs that option, not that it has anything to do with GEM. Except for starting with a GE, so maybe that's it. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] OpenGEM 5 freezes/hangs/locks on FreeDOS 0.9 SR2
Michael, Eric, All: I went into this round of tests with this configuration, and cut back progressively as I describe below: LASTDRIVE=Z BUFFERS=30 FILES=40 DOS=HIGH,UMB DOSDATA=UMB DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\HIMEM.EXE DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\EMM386.EXE NOEMS X=TEST VDS SHELL=C:\command.com C:\ /E:512 /P=C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT - SET DOSDIR=C:\FDOS SET PATH=C:\NET;C:\;C:\FDOS\bin;C:\DOSSHELL;C:\PKZIP SET TEMP=C:\FDOS\TEMP SET TMP=C:\FDOS\TEMP CTMOUSE I do not find any combination of options for EMM386 that will work: adding NOALTBOOT, removing VDS, removing NOEMS. If I do not load EMM386 at all and just run HIMEM (keeping DOS=HIGH,UMB and DOSDATA=UMB), GEM Draw, Doodle and Paint all reboot while loading. If I then also remove DOSDATA=UMB, all three programs either reboot or hang while loading. If I then also remove DOS=HIGH,UMB, all three programs will load, but all three hang while quitting. If I then also remove HIMEM, Draw both loads and quits, Doodle loads but hangs while quitting (except that the mouse pointer is still active), and there is insufficient memory to load Paint. If I then also remove CTMOUSE from AUTOEXEC and operate GEM in mouse-free keyboard mode, the results are yet slightly worse: all three programs hang while loading. I could add that I removed the ISA sound and network cards for this round of tests. Only the PCI video card was installed (though I let stand legacy IRQ reservations in the BIOS setup). I am working with OpenGEM 5, downloaded from http://gem.shaneland.co.uk/downloads/complete/OPENGEM5.zip. This is the same version of GEM that runs fine under the same version of FreeDOS (with the same updates) on a 486 SX2-50 machine. As I said in an earlier post, I went into this problem with a computer that was running all my DOS games fine in the original more-complex configuration, and also served fine as a DOS network client, so there is some odd interaction between GEM/GEM Apps and FreeDOS at a low level on this machine. This despite the fact that GEM has always had such minimal requirements for hardware and operating system support. --John Hupp - Original Message - From: Michael Devore To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] OpenGEM 5 freezes/hangs/locks on FreeDOS 0.9 SR2 I'm in the middle of working full-time on two different projects, but I might be able to take a look at this in a week or two. Probably not sooner and possibly later. I'll need a download link for the problematic GEM, though. If it's kernel, I likely won't be able to help further. You might also try EMM386 NOALTBOOT option. I know GEOS needs that option, not that it has anything to do with GEM. Except for starting with a GE, so maybe that's it. - Original Message - From: Eric Auer To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 11:50 AM Subject: emm386 idea hi, you should try without the noems option and/or without the vds option... eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] OpenGEM 5 freezes/hangs/locks on FreeDOS 0.9 SR2
Hi! 4-Июн-2006 13:46 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hupp) wrote to freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net: JH hitch I noticed is that a message flashed by at the outset - something about JH TZ environment variable not found, I believe. This is dumb message from InfoZip. JH But the installation did not JH stop and seemed to finish without error. There is only one wrong thing with this - InfoZip incorrectly restores timestamps (shifted by some Time Zone hours amount). JH IF EXIST C:\FDOS\BIN\MOUSE.EXE CTMOUSE -^-^^^ Isn't there is bug? ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
