[FRIAM] Classification of ABM's

2009-01-03 Thread Nicholas Thompson
t; Phil Henshaw?? > > > > > > -- > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:44:20 -0700 > From: Steve Smith > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] great paper on revolutionary change in systems > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Grou

Re: [FRIAM] Callling all cladisticists

2009-01-03 Thread Steve Smith
Doug - Methinks that that cartilaginous shrapnel has been traveling from knee to brain. A distillation of said yeasty brew might be better at dissolving the blockages. -Steve Sent from my iPhone On Jan 3, 2009, at 9:04 PM, "Douglas Roberts" wrote: my poor, befuddled brain. I' seri

Re: [FRIAM] Callling all cladisticists

2009-01-03 Thread Marcus G. Daniels
Douglas Roberts wrote: I seriously doubt that there is a one-size-fits-all taxonomy classifier for ABMs that will produce anything other than "No shit!" rudimentary descriptive information about any given ABM. It might be informative to see map of invented conceptual attributes and applications

Re: [FRIAM] Callling all cladisticists

2009-01-03 Thread Douglas Roberts
Ok, Marcus. But what does that buy the developer of a C^3I (Command, Control, Communications, and Intelligence) war gaming ABM? Or and ABM of the pork bellies market? Or an ABM of celestial mechanics? Or an ABM of the braking system of a Boeing 787 Dreamliner? Or an ABM of a specific social ne

Re: [FRIAM] Callling all cladisticists

2009-01-03 Thread Marcus G. Daniels
Russ Abbott wrote: But if you are interested in the best current thinking about a subject, why should you care how people thought about it 4 centuries ago? What if there are common processes behind learning and insight and they are general and timeless? ===

Re: [FRIAM] Callling all cladisticists

2009-01-03 Thread Marcus G. Daniels
Nicholas Thompson wrote: But what then about cladistics. Cladistics is a dark art of classification that uses a variety of obscure incantations to lable relations amongst species without, so far as I understand, any reference to evolution. Yet, as I understand it, cladistics is not arbitra

Re: [FRIAM] Callling all cladisticists

2009-01-03 Thread Douglas Roberts
On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Phil Henshaw wrote: > The basis of taxonomy is the developmental sequences of the forms > themselves, so in the case of ABM's it would be finding who built on whose > ideas and model parts.It's basically a time network map of parentage > and offspring, which

Re: [FRIAM] Callling all cladisticists

2009-01-03 Thread Phil Henshaw
The basis of taxonomy is the developmental sequences of the forms themselves, so in the case of ABM's it would be finding who built on whose ideas and model parts.It's basically a time network map of parentage and offspring, which naturally branches and cross fertilizes. I asked what f

Re: [FRIAM] What to do with knowledge

2009-01-03 Thread Phil Henshaw
Thanks, yes that way of asking it does expose the fact that I often deal with the issues of poorly explained complex systems like those one finds all over the place in societies and ecologies.Science is a policy to understand things better, though, with the knowns ultimately nested in unknowns,

Re: [FRIAM] great paper on revolutionary change in systems

2009-01-03 Thread Phil Henshaw
Steve, Phil - This is a very timely reference. I often find that "Survey" papers, especially from outside of the field I am working in, but on a subject overlapping said field can be very illuminating. They help to provide a common-sense perspective on the problem... help to remove me from

Re: [FRIAM] Callling all cladisticists

2009-01-03 Thread Joshua Thorp
I don't know anything about cladistics, so I don't know whether this fits with it. ABMs can have many different parents, often not directly known. I'm not sure parentage in any strict sense would be a particularly good approach. Better would be to identify separate patterns in how the A

Re: [FRIAM] Callling all cladisticists

2009-01-03 Thread Russ Abbott
Since my prejudice as a programmer is that almost any abstraction is likely to be useful, then since taxonomies tend to reveal interesting abstractions, they will very likely be useful. How could they not? At worst a taxonomy will be found to be uninteresting and unrevealing of underlying design pr

Re: [FRIAM] Callling all cladisticists

2009-01-03 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Hi, Russ, Thanks for your interesting response. Well, the same argument could be made, could it not, against trying to gather information about human evolution. After all, it matters not how we got here, but who we are, now that we are here. However, in evolutionary psychology, I have alw

Re: [FRIAM] Callling all cladisticists

2009-01-03 Thread Russ Abbott
Hi Nick, What's wrong with this argument? My wife teaches what's known as Early Modern English, which means English literature, culture, etc. in the late 16th and early 17th centuries. She is interested in how people thought about things in her period as well as how those ways of thinking develop

[FRIAM] Callling all cladisticists

2009-01-03 Thread Nicholas Thompson
All, For those of you who werent there, last friday, we got into an intersting discussion about the possibility of taxonomies of agent based models. Are there only a few basic types? Are many apparently different agent based models, deployed for widely different purposes, fundamentally only

Re: [FRIAM] What to do with knowledge

2009-01-03 Thread Russ Abbott
When I first read this question, I thought that it was somewhat off topic. It is asking about policy rather than science. But the implication of that perspective is that there is no science of policy, i.e., that political science or sociology isn't a science. But of course it should be. In fact it

Re: [FRIAM] great paper on revolutionary change in systems

2009-01-03 Thread Steve Smith
Phil - This is a very timely reference.  I often find that "Survey" papers, especially from outside of the field I am working in, but on a subject overlapping said field can be very illuminating.   They help to provide a common-sense perspective on the problem... help to remove me from the "tr

[FRIAM] great paper on revolutionary change in systems

2009-01-03 Thread Phil Henshaw
www.synapse9.com/ref/GersickCJG1991RevolutionaryChangeTheories.pdf (500k) Have any of you heard of the "Academy of Management Review" or Connie JG Gersick? She might have called it 'emergence' I think, but seems to have done a great job of threading together six different theories of change bet

Re: [FRIAM] What to do with knowledge

2009-01-03 Thread Phil Henshaw
Doesn't the most dangerous knowledge often come from having a blind spot to the danger? That's often the problem when people don’t recognize the meaning of changes in scale or kind, like looking for 'bigger' solutions (the bigger bomb or bigger shovel approach) when the nature of the problem chan