Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

2014-01-10 Thread glen
On 01/09/2014 07:28 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: Ok. Great. Where would you like to start? Well, we've already started. See Marcus' post, my response, and Steve's response. I tried to send a private message to you to see if you wanted to take a one-on-one conversation off line. But my e-mails

Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

2014-01-10 Thread Nick Thompson
Oh, Dear. It's not supposed to do THAT! It's just supposed to ask where you live, where your mother lives, for your first born son as a hostage, and three players to be named later. Did it actually refuse you? Could you send me a copy of that message so I can have them killed? Earthlink

Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

2014-01-10 Thread Robert J. Cordingley
I think this works for awhile but since it's a positive feedback system (making the rules gets you more gold) it eventually breaks or has to be intervened. So when the revolution comes we know who will be first against the wall/sent to the guillotine/sent packing. Following an undetermined

[FRIAM] St. Johns Coffee Shop Closed Today

2014-01-10 Thread Frank Wimberly
Nick and I are headed to Capitol Cafe. Frank --- Sent from my Android phone. FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe

Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

2014-01-10 Thread glen
On 01/09/2014 07:48 PM, Marcus G. Daniels wrote: I'm told that in some countries like Sri Lanka, money comes with power, rather than power with money. Make an appropriate tax table, or send out the military intelligence to deal with these people that fancy themselves as the deciders. On

Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

2014-01-10 Thread Nick Thompson
Glen, Well, we have started. But I don't think we have made a good start. I would like to be arguing about something about which we agree there is probably a truth of the matter. Now that might violate some libertarian's (or at least some postmodernists) principles from the start.

Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

2014-01-10 Thread mar...@snoutfarm.com
Ah yes. Propose a nonsense topic, wait until it is shown to be nonsense, they raise a vague follow-up topic, and ask the other person to say something in particular for you. Do you want to get your hands dirty or just play professor? Original email: - From: Nick Thompson

Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

2014-01-10 Thread glen
On 01/10/2014 12:43 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: Well, we have started. But I don't think we have made a good start. I would like to be arguing about something about which we agree there is probably a truth of the matter. Now that might violate some libertarian's (or at least some

Re: [FRIAM] St. Johns Coffee Shop Closed Today

2014-01-10 Thread Nick Thompson
Frank, Thanks for organizing the shift. That worked pretty good. Your comments about my argumentative style are taken and noted with gratitude. In general, I think you are correct that I like to provoke a discussion, although I don't particular mean to provoke a person. I think there

[FRIAM] illusions

2014-01-10 Thread lrudolph
Nick writes, incidentally to Frank's comments about [his] argumentative style: As for the inner life thing, I don't think I am dishonest when I say that I don't believe in an inner life. I admit that I have something like that as an experience, but think it must be an illusion. The

Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

2014-01-10 Thread Nick Thompson
Yes. I agree. We might get into trouble later regarding understandings of rich, but mostly it's true. It tends to be less true in hunter gatherer groups where less dominant males tend to gang up and control their more successful colleagues. See Boehm's Democracy in the Forest. I think

Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

2014-01-10 Thread glen
On 01/10/2014 02:31 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: Yes. I agree. We might get into trouble later regarding understandings of rich, but mostly it's true. It tends to be less true in hunter gatherer groups where less dominant males tend to gang up and control their more successful colleagues.

Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

2014-01-10 Thread Gillian Densmore
Define right vs left: Steve Hawking can right good science, when left to his own devices. (Rimshot: I'll be around all week) On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 1:43 PM, Nick Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.netwrote: Glen, Well, we have started. But I don't think we have made a *good* start. I

Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

2014-01-10 Thread Nick Thompson
Glen, I hope this helps. CONCLUSION: There are examples of less ruling of the rich and, even if there were no such examples, a discussion of why it would be better if we had less such ruling would be useful. ARGUMENTATION: I agreed to the proposition that the rich tend to have a

Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

2014-01-10 Thread Steve Smith
On 01/10/2014 02:31 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: Yes. I agree. We might get into trouble later regarding understandings of rich, but mostly it's true. It tends to be less true in hunter gatherer groups where less dominant males tend to gang up and control their more successful colleagues.

Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

2014-01-10 Thread Marcus G. Daniels
On 1/10/14, 3:41 PM, glen wrote: OK. So, as a descriptive fact: He who has the gold rules. Now we go back to Marcus' question: Does the aphorism mean He who has the gold _ought_ to rule? At which point, I just reiterate my response, which is: Since all we've ever known is He who has the gold

[FRIAM] Fwd: Success! SpaceShipTwo hits new heights during rocket test - NBC News.com

2014-01-10 Thread Owen Densmore
Yeehaa! http://www.nbcnews.com/science/liftoff-spaceshiptwo-celebrates-new-year-test-flight-2D11767010 Commercial flights planned from NM although test flights are in Mojave, a standard testing ground. -- Owen FRIAM Applied

Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

2014-01-10 Thread Marcus G. Daniels
On 1/10/14, 6:28 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: (2) Second, given that understanding of what I agreed to, there ARE examples where the rich are not as dominant as the rich are in our current society. In fact, not long ago, we were such a society. For example

Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

2014-01-10 Thread Nick Thompson
Marcus, I guess I don't follow. Perhaps others will clarify. Best, Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

2014-01-10 Thread Marcus G. Daniels
On 1/10/14, 10:45 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: I guess I don't follow. One can always deconstruct to the point that whatever we hold dear is arbitrary. That's an exercise many people don't seem to do, for whatever reason. Maybe they find it upsetting. The left draws from one set of premises,