On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:17:24 -0600, vord [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
this is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing ive ever read.
normally i would respond to it in more detail but i have received
literally dozens of responses from members of this list who either
sympathize with my position or
i didn't get responses from anyone i knew ... i got responses from
people who knew you, get it?
btw, our offer still stands. if you would like to try and substantiate
your claims, feel free to come back and try your hardest.
this is over and never should have begun.
DO NOT REPLY. I WILL NOT
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 18:34:03 -0600, vord [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i didn't get responses from anyone i knew ... i got responses from
people who knew you, get it?
btw, our offer still stands. if you would like to try and substantiate
your claims, feel free to come back and try your hardest.
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Danny wrote:
What a stupid article. The author has it all wrong! IRC is a bed of
roses with Celine Dion playing in the background.
IRC is like the streets. You can find bad and good people, but it is
stupid to say that anyone walking in the street or chatting on IRC is a
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:56:41 -0600, vord [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[flame]
n3td3v/malformed,
please think before you speak. ive already explained this to you more
than once. #hackphreak is no longer associated with a group and no
longer intends to be a channel dedicated primarily to matters
this is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing ive ever read.
normally i would respond to it in more detail but i have received
literally dozens of responses from members of this list who either
sympathize with my position or have outright called you an
idiot/lamer. i therefore see no need to
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:14:09 -0600, vord [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[flame response] firstly, n3td3v is only mad because i happened to ban
him from #hackphreak ... which is incidentally the current home of
former/current members of [where to begin?] rhino9, w00w00 ... and
of course, people
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:12:06 GMT, n3td3v said:
All you guys do on the channel is talk about pimps and whores and
That's what it looks like if you didn't get a copy of the codebook. :)
other *general chat* stuff. Nothing related to security or hacking is
discussed (and if it is, its in very
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, Danny wrote:
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say that:
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck further havoc?
2) A considerable amount of script kiddies
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:21:45 +0100, nicolas vigier
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Are you really serious ? Is it a joke ?
Dude, I am seriously a naive idiot who just wanted to rant about the
people that abuse IRC. Hopefully this was just a momentary brain fart,
otherwise I might be in trouble, eh?
[flame]
n3td3v/malformed,
please think before you speak. ive already explained this to you more
than once. #hackphreak is no longer associated with a group and no
longer intends to be a channel dedicated primarily to matters of
hacking/phreaking technical discussion [we therefore accommodate
to be discovered and fixed.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Danny
Sent: 19 November 2004 17:40
To: Mailing List - Full-Disclosure
Subject: [Full-Disclosure] Why is IRC still around?
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti
Vord from the in-famous script kiddie channel #hackphreak!! omg, thats
the biggest no credibility lamer channel ever.
Its channels like #hackphreak which give IRC a bad name, the exact
reason this thread started probably!!
Vord, go back to #hackphreak kiddo.
should continue to be discovered and fixed.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Danny
Sent: 19 November 2004 17:40
To: Mailing List - Full-Disclosure
Subject: [Full-Disclosure] Why is IRC still around
--vord
#hackphreak/undernet
sucka
Go back to the channel you came from.
___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
vord wrote:
and for the record, they would move to another resource is not a
coherent argument against his position [his question, rather]
concerning the elimination of a problem-child medium. perhaps the cost
to society via the spread piracy and virii [more importantly the
altter] isnt worth the
[flame response] firstly, n3td3v is only mad because i happened to ban
him from #hackphreak ... which is incidentally the current home of
former/current members of [where to begin?] rhino9, w00w00 ... and
of course, people who're currently employed at CA/ISS/M$/FS/SIDC. the
list goes on. are we
An internet zorro. Just what we need.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n3td3v
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 9:41 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] Why is IRC still around?
Vord from the in-famous script kiddie
if shooting people is evil, OBVIOUSLY guns are flawed, but only
insofar as people are capable of abusing them, willing to abuse them,
and effective in their attempts at doing so. so to burn the candle at
both ends you have to fight the spread of trojans and virii by fixing
the holes they
IRC is a tool/channel to exchange messages, just like mailing lists,
web forums, instant messengers and etc. If there's no IRC, hackers or
who has the same ideas would also find other channels to found groups,
as you joined the Full-Disclosure mailing list. :P
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:40:26 -0500,
What would IT be like today without IRC (or the like)? Am I narrow
minded to say that it would be a much safer place?
I can easily show you the flaw in this thinking. Take it to the extreme and
ban everything except http and pop/smtp since that's all 95% of the users on
the net use anyway. If
This has got to be close to the most stupid thread ever on full-disclosure.
I'm not sure if it gets that because the original email was so
incredibly naieve or just narrow minded or just a result of very
shallow thinking.
It's almost dumb enough that you could suggest its premise to some
vord [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
if shooting people is evil, OBVIOUSLY guns are flawed, but only
insofar as people are capable of abusing them, willing to abuse them,
and effective in their attempts at doing so. so to burn the candle at
both ends you have to fight the spread of trojans and virii
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck further havoc?
yes, some do. The three most common forms of viral use of IRC that I see are:
1. Virus/worm/trojan writers have it connect to a server and notify a
channel that it has infected xx.xx.xx.xx. This is an attempt to keep
Sorry to offend those that use IRC legitimately (LOL - find something
else to chat with your buddies), but why the hell are we not pushing
to sunset IRC?
because you can't, i'm not sure what you think IRC is.. but it isn't
one network run by a few geeks. It's thousands of networks accross
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Danny
Sent: 19 November 2004 17:40
To: Mailing List - Full-Disclosure
Subject: [Full-Disclosure] Why is IRC still around?
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:10:13 -0500, Tim
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My mistake; I was referring to the discussion, collaboration, and
creation, not the spread.
You mentioned DDoS attacks below. I don't believe that use is a form of
discussion, collaboration, or creation.
Some say we
james edwards wrote:
It is not IRC that is the problem, it is the people on IRC that cause
problems.
Guns don't kill people all by by themselves; people kill people.
but it's the holes they make that really do 'em in, no? %-)
--
dk
___
Danny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What would IT be like today without IRC (or the like)? Am I narrow
minded to say that it would be a much safer place?
To be honest: Yes, i think it is quite narrow-mindet to say that.
Sure, there are some scriptkiddies and crackers who organize
themselves
The fact that it is an open protocol makes it easy to spot, you don't
look for specific ports you look for specific behavior (i.e. - privmsg)
Not that I'm saying this should be done. IRC is used by many ppl in very
good ways!
I'm just saying that the two points shouldn't be confused. SSL is a
Well, fellow F-D'ers, thanks to the vast array of intelligence and
experience found on this list, my rant about abolishing IRC has been
proven to be far from a solution.
I..can't tell if it's sarcasm or not, damn those trolls and their mind
poisoning ways.
--
zxy_rbt2
On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 12:40 -0500, Danny wrote:
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say that:
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck further havoc?
Not as much as email does. What
Is IRC bad? Yes.
Is SMTP bad? Yes.
Why? Because they are simple and basic protocol implementations
created decades ago. Not that they aren't efficient and easy, but
they certainly have their shortcomings in terms of security and AAA.
Yes, people can certainly switch to other mediums which
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:48:46 +, Andrew Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, fellow F-D'ers, thanks to the vast array of intelligence and
experience found on this list, my rant about abolishing IRC has been
proven to be far from a solution.
I..can't tell if it's sarcasm or not, damn
been on yahoo lately? or AOL channels or hell how bout gnutella?
-Original Message-
From: Danny [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 2:53 PM
To: Keith Pachulski
Cc: Mailing List - Full-Disclosure
Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] Why is IRC still around?
On Fri, 19 Nov
how bout because it is entertaining and it is an easy way to communicate with a
large group of ppl at once
-Original Message-
From: Danny [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 12:40 PM
To: Mailing List - Full-Disclosure
Subject: [Full-Disclosure] Why is IRC still
Danny: there's not need to keep replying, this is a mailing list.
Here's what happens:
1) Question posted.
2) Valid replies posted.
3) 30-40 others repeat replies at 2)
4) In come the trolls..
--
zxy_rbt2
___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Cc:
Subject: [Full-Disclosure] Why is IRC still around?
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say that:
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans
there is some great stuff developed on irc. have you ever used a
cvsbot? I just love those check-in privmsg notifications.
chris
==
'when all you have is a nail-gun, every problem looks like a messiah'
Danny wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:10:13 -0500, Tim
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My mistake; I
On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 17:40, Danny wrote:
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say that:
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck further havoc?
2) A considerable amount of script
Danny wrote:
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say that:
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck further havoc?
2) A considerable amount of script kiddies originate and grow through
Micheal Espinola Jr wrote:
Is SMTP bad? Yes.
Why? Because they are simple and basic protocol implementations
Are or were ? smtp supports tls for example (I dropped irc because I
have very little knowledge about it).
Not that they aren't efficient and easy, but
they certainly have their
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:54:30 -0500, bkfsec [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Danny wrote:
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say that:
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck further
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:47:31 -0500, Keith Pachulski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
how bout because it is entertaining and it is an easy way to communicate with
a large group of ppl at once
So that trumps it's infestion of illegal activites?
...D
___
On Friday 19 November 2004 3:31 pm, Poof wrote:
Wow, NICE analogy Jeff!
While IRC is here to stay... The future seems more like servers that're
only hosted through big companies/etc as most datacenters are 'forbidding'
use of IRC(Ports 6660-6669, 7000) on their network.
As any other service,
Might as well ask yourself Why are trolls like me still around?
Hooked 'em good, monkey. :o)
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:40:26 -0500, Danny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say
Subject: RE: [Full-Disclosure] Why is IRC still around?
how bout because it is entertaining and it is an easy way to communicate
with a large group of ppl at once
-Original Message-
From: Danny [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 12:40 PM
To: Mailing List - Full
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:58:48 -0500, ntx0f [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think its about time to sunset this discussion,
Sunsets are nice to watch in the summer months over here.
Thanks,n3td3v
http://www.geocities.com/n3td3v
___
Full-Disclosure - We
-Original Message-
From: Danny [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 12:40 PM
To: Mailing List - Full-Disclosure
Subject: [Full-Disclosure] Why is IRC still around?
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides
On Fri, Nov 19, 2004 at 12:40:26PM -0500, Danny wrote:
5) The anonymity of the whole thing helps to foster all the illegal
and malicious activity that occurs?
You answered yourself. Because such mostly unregulated, seminanonymous
medium is needed. You have problem with unpatched machines?
Danny wrote:
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say that:
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck further havoc?
2) A considerable amount of script kiddies originate and grow
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:55:12 -0500, Keith Pachulski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
been on yahoo lately? or AOL channels or hell how bout gnutella?
Do they organize zombies, foster the creation of backdoors, round up
DoS attacks?
Sure, getting rid of the big piracy rings would be nice, but I am
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say that:
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck further havoc?
2) A considerable amount of script kiddies originate and grow through IRC?
3) A wee
knives dissapear, because they are useful; instead, we must get
rid of people that uses knives to kill.
- Original Message -
From: Danny [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mailing List - Full-Disclosure [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 2:40 PM
Subject: [Full-Disclosure] Why is IRC still
Even better idea: Get sunset internet1
/me just solved problems 1-5
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:40:26 -0500, Danny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say that:
1) A hell of a
Danny wrote:
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say that:
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck further havoc?
And? There are a hell of a lot of normal users on IRC too who don't
Sorry to offend those that use IRC legitimately (LOL - find something
else to chat with your buddies), but why the hell are we not pushing
to sunset IRC?
It is not IRC that is the problem, it is the people on IRC that cause
problems.
Guns don't kill people all by by themselves; people kill
, right?
Ron Bowes
Information Protection Centre
Government Of Manitoba
-Original Message-
From: Danny [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 11:40 AM
To: Mailing List - Full-Disclosure
Subject: [Full-Disclosure] Why is IRC still around?
Well, it sure does help the anti
Danny wrote:
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say that:
?
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck further havoc?
email, http, aol users;)?
2) A considerable amount of script kiddies
Unfortunately IRC is not the problem. Removing IRC will cause the
systems that use it to leverage another control channel. The people that
abuse it will use another forum...
The problem is that systems exist that can be mass exploited and used to
coordinate attacks and that there are people
Oh, crap s/Get/Why not/
Sorry
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:49:32 -0600, shrek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Even better idea: Get sunset internet1
/me just solved problems 1-5
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:40:26 -0500, Danny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:17:09 -0800, Mister Coffee
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Danny wrote:
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say that:
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:40:26 EST, Danny said:
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck further havoc?
2) A considerable amount of script kiddies originate and grow through IRC?
3) A wee bit of software piracy occurs?
4) That many organized DoS attacks through PC zombies
Well, fellow F-D'ers, thanks to the vast array of intelligence and
experience found on this list, my rant about abolishing IRC has been
proven to be far from a solution.
Maybe I will throw my suggestion in as Feature Request for Internet2. :D
...D
___
Wow, I think you have a great point! To add to the list, Los Angeles
has quite a bit of crime, so I think that it should be removed from
the face of the planet. Of course, I think some fraud has been
occurring on eBay--remove them also. Oh, and some Catholic priests
have been in the news for
Danny wrote:
Sorry to offend those that use IRC legitimately (LOL - find something
else to chat with your buddies), but why the hell are we not pushing
to sunset IRC?
Many people use IRC; and still do. It's a legitimate medium I've used
since the 80's for it's intended purpose. Your abolish
Wow, NICE analogy Jeff!
While IRC is here to stay... The future seems more like servers that're only
hosted through big companies/etc as most datacenters are 'forbidding' use of
IRC(Ports 6660-6669, 7000) on their network.
Just a thought.
~
That's because the Internet is free and no one can
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, Danny wrote:
What would IT be like today without IRC (or the like)? Am I narrow
minded to say that it would be a much safer place?
Narrow minded or not, it's irrelevent. Sure, the world *might* be a
little teenie bit safer without IRC, but then, the same could be said
My mistake; I was referring to the discussion, collaboration, and
creation, not the spread.
You mentioned DDoS attacks below. I don't believe that use is a form of
discussion, collaboration, or creation.
Some say we should, but I am not one of those. My point was to get rid
of the most well
One alternative - silc. http://www.silcnet.org/
G
On or about 2004.11.19 12:40:26 +, Danny ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) said:
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say that:
1) A hell of a lot of
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:47:36 -0600, Bowes, Ronald (EST)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How exactly do you propose to accomplish this? IRC is an open protocol and
there are many open clients and open servers which can run on any port, and
run encrypted with SSL.
So do you intend to scan every
On Fri, November 19, 2004 9:40 am, Danny said:
2) A considerable amount of script kiddies originate and grow through
IRC?
3) A wee bit of software piracy occurs?
4) That many organized DoS attacks through PC zombies are initiated
through IRC?
5) The anonymity of the whole thing helps to
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:54:54 -0500, Tim
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck further havoc?
Isn't email the primary spreading mechanism of viruses?
My mistake; I was referring to the discussion, collaboration, and
creation, not the spread.
2004 17:40
To: Mailing List - Full-Disclosure
Subject: [Full-Disclosure] Why is IRC still around?
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say that:
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:40:26 -0500, Danny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say that:
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck further havoc?
If you mean
, November 19, 2004 2:53 PM
To: Bowes, Ronald (EST)
Cc: Mailing List - Full-Disclosure
Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] Why is IRC still around?
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:47:36 -0600, Bowes, Ronald (EST)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How exactly do you propose to accomplish this? IRC is an open protocol
An excellent question.
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:40:26 -0500, Danny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, it sure does help the anti-virus (anti-malware) and security
consulting business, but besides that... is it not safe to say that:
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck
I wish it was possible, but it just wouldn't work. The hackers would
move onto the next best chat system, whatever that may be at the time.
For it ever to work, you would need to ban all chat communications and
peer 2 peer on the internet, and thats unlikely to happen, and would
be hard to
1) A hell of a lot of viruses/worms/trojans use IRC to wreck further havoc?
Isn't email the primary spreading mechanism of viruses? should we
sunset email?
2) A considerable amount of script kiddies originate and grow through IRC?
And if there were no IRC, they would use AIM, or MSN
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