Re: FVWM: two questions about icons
Sorry. My bad, I forgot to attach the xprop output file to my prior
emssage. It is attached to this one.
GDK_TIMESTAMP_PROP(GDK_TIMESTAMP_PROP) = 0x61
WM_STATE(WM_STATE):
window state: Normal
icon window: 0x40018a
_NET_FRAME_EXTENTS(CARDINAL) = 7, 7, 31, 7
_KDE_NET_WM_FRAME_STRUT(CARDINAL) = 7, 7, 31, 7
_NET_WM_ALLOWED_ACTIONS(ATOM) = _NET_WM_ACTION_CHANGE_DESKTOP,
_NET_WM_ACTION_CLOSE, _NET_WM_ACTION_FULLSCREEN, _NET_WM_ACTION_MAXIMIZE_HORZ,
_NET_WM_ACTION_MAXIMIZE_VERT, _NET_WM_ACTION_MINIMIZE, _NET_WM_ACTION_MOVE,
_NET_WM_ACTION_RESIZE, _NET_WM_ACTION_SHADE, _NET_WM_ACTION_STICK
_NET_WM_DESKTOP(CARDINAL) = 0
_NET_WM_ICON_VISIBLE_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "FreeBSD Handbook - Mozilla Firefox"
_NET_WM_VISIBLE_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "FreeBSD Handbook - Mozilla Firefox"
WM_HINTS(WM_HINTS):
Client accepts input or input focus: True
Initial state is Normal State.
bitmap id # to use for icon: 0x147
bitmap id # of mask for icon: 0x14e
window id # of group leader: 0x141
_GTK_THEME_VARIANT(UTF8_STRING) =
WM_WINDOW_ROLE(STRING) = "browser"
XdndAware(ATOM) = BITMAP
_NET_WM_ICON(CARDINAL) =Icon (64 x 64):
.^
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Re: FVWM: two questions about icons
In message firefox.xprop wrote: >This is probably because my memory is failing me (I wasn't able to >double check what resource/class firefox uses these days). > >Use FvwmIdent or xprop and figure out the correct resource/class of >firefox on your system and use that instead of 'firefox' in the Style >line. Please see attached fle which is the output from xprop. I seriously have no idead= what I am looking for in this file, but I do see several places where the name "Firefox" (capitalized) appears. My assumption was that perhaps this is the magic string I needed to be using, so I substituted that in, in place of "firefox" in the Style lines within both ~/.fvwm2rc and also ~/.fvwm/config and then I again exited X and restarted it, and I'm still getting the BIG icons. Maybe you can look at this xprop output and intuit what name, precisely, I should be using in the Style line, but I'm totally ignorant of all of this stuff so it's a complete enigma to me. >One really needs to read the docs and understand what commands are >doing in fvwm to make the most out of it. For a Style you need to >ensure you match the name/class/resource of the window. OK, two things... First, at this point my goals are -very- modest. I don't really need to "make the most" out of fvwm. I'm mostly happy with the default fuctionality -and- with the default theme. Second, to be frank, I've already been throughly intimidated by the gigantic size of the fvwm man page. I mean seriously... holy moses! It's wonderful that fvwm provides such massive flexibility and such massive configurability, but unless and until I need to write a Master's thesis on this one tool, I don't believe that I'll have time to delve seriously into even the first couple of layers of the complexity here. Don't get me wrong. I admire this tool and also every person who has worked to create it. But my needs are simple and my time, limited. If I can just get these three simple things fixed then I'll be a happy camper: (1) proper (48x48) icon size for Firefox, (2) a proper sort of an icon being used for minimized xterm windows and (3) a nice digital xclock displaying in the space below where the default theme is putting the xbiff thingy and analog xclock. I've already received a suggestion on how to do that last one... which I have yet to try, but which I am hoping will work... so now I just need some simple fixes for the other two. As I say, I greatly admire fvwm and all of this ornate configurability. It apparently gives the user that ability to configure just about everything. That's wonderful, of course. I just wish that it had an option also to select a preferred icon size. That would have simplified everything a lot, I think. Regards, rfg P.S. Many UNIX programs/utilities that support their own config files document the format of allowable entries in those files in a separate man page from the one that documents the program itself (e.g. ntp.conf and many others). This makes it a bit easier to find what one is looking for, either by looking at the man page for the program or at the man page for the configuration file. I only mention this because it seems to me that the man page for fvwm might benefit from such a separation of concerns (into two separate man pages). Just a thought. Probably worth what you paid for it. :-)
Re: FVWM: two questions about icons
On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 4:01 PM Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > > > In message > > Jaimos Skriletz wrote: > > >If you don't like the icon provided by the application you can > >configure fvwm to use custom icons via the Icon Style (or > >WindowStyle). For example if you find a firefox icon and put it in > >your ImagePath, you can tell fvwm to use it for firefox as follows: > > > >Style firefox Icon firefox.png > > > >(you could also just use a full path for your icon specification). > This is probably because my memory is failing me (I wasn't able to double check what resource/class firefox uses these days). Use FvwmIdent or xprop and figure out the correct resource/class of firefox on your system and use that instead of 'firefox' in the Style line. https://fvwmforums.org/wiki/Config/Style/ One really needs to read the docs and understand what commands are doing in fvwm to make the most out of it. For a Style you need to ensure you match the name/class/resource of the window. jaimos
Re: FVWM: two questions about icons
In message Jaimos Skriletz wrote: >If you don't like the icon provided by the application you can >configure fvwm to use custom icons via the Icon Style (or >WindowStyle). For example if you find a firefox icon and put it in >your ImagePath, you can tell fvwm to use it for firefox as follows: > >Style firefox Icon firefox.png > >(you could also just use a full path for your icon specification). I've now tried to do this in multiple different ways and it just ain't working for me. I was able to find and download an appropriate 48x48 firefiox .png icon file and I've now tried to get fvwm to make us eof that in mutiple different ways and so far it is just refusing. So if some kind soul can tell me what I'm doing wrong, I'd appreciate it. I started out by just putting the .png file into my own home directory (permissions 0644) and then I added the following single line at some random point in the ~/.fvwm2rc file which I had copied from the systemwide default file /usr/local/rfg/system.fvwm2rc Style firefox Icon /home/rfg/.Firefox-icon-48x48.png And yes, I double-checked that the file really did exist at that exact path. After doing this, I shutdown X and restarted it. No change. Firefox still minimized to an oversized icon. I wasn't sure whether or not the use of full pathnames was supported, so I copied the .png file into a directory, /usr/local/rfg/icons/ (removing the leading period in the filename as I did so) and then changed the above to the following and tried again: ImagePath /usr/local/rfg/icons Style firefox Icon Firefox-icon-48x48.png Still no joy. I noted that someone here had saidf that the cannonical location of the per-user fvwm config file is now ~/.fvwm/config so I copied my tailored config file to that location and again exited X and restarted, and still the Firefox icons are the big fat ones. I guess I'm doing something wrong, but it isn't obvious what that might be. Does fvwm create a detailed log file anywhere that I should be studying for hints about what files it is reading and what went wrong?
Re: FVWM: two questions about icons
In message <20190531001538.084a9320...@apps1.cs.toronto.edu>,
Chris Siebenmann wrote:
> The bad news is that modern EWMH X programs generally don't supply
>their icons as files in the filesystem; instead, they provide multiple
>sizes of icons as X properties, which you can usually see by using
>'xprop' on a suitable window (it's all of the _NET_WM_ICON stuff, and
>I think the WM_HINTS stuff, although I don't know how the bitmap ids
>are used).
Thanks much. I really -am- just to dumb end-luser, and thus didn't even
know about xprop until just now.
But I ran it on (non-minimized) Firefox and Opera browser windows on my
system of interest and it appears that Opera only offers up a single 48x48
icon, whereas Firefox now offers all of: 16x16, 32x32, 48x48, 64x64, and
128x128 versions.
Strangely, the output of xprop executed on a Chrome{ium} browser window
-seems- to say to me that Chrom{ium} is only offering up a 128x128 icon
for itself, but when minimized, the icon displayed in actually way smaller
than that... somwhere between the 48x48 icon size used by Opera and what
I am just guessing is probably the somewhat larger 64x64 size used , at
present, for Firefox.
I just mention this because it appears to me that in that (Chrom{ium}) case,
someboyd may be doing some sort of scaling or something.
So, anyuway, what I want is for Fvwm to be using the 48x48 icon for its
representation of a minimized Firefox window.
Surely there -must- be -some- way to force that, no?
>If you want to see what size of icon fvwm is using for some
>window, you can use 'xwininfo' on the icon; this will tell you the
>icon's Width and Height.
Thanks. Yet another thing I learned today.
>The actual source PNGs for these Firefox icons are present in the
>source code but are magically bundled into the compiled and installed
>Firefox.
I guess that me offering this observation is rather pointless, but I'll
offer it anyway: This choice, to embed the icons into the compailed
binaries, is, in my humble opinion, of debatable merit.
I know. I know. If I want to grouse about -that- questionable design
decision, then I'm in the entirely Wrong Place for doing so. (If I get
motivated, I'll register my opinion on this topic elsewhere.)
>Never the less you can simply pull the PNGs out of the source
>code, once you know the magical location. Probably the simplest way is
>through the Github Firefox mirror, where I believe you can find all of
>the sizes in the default*.pngs here:
>
>https://github.com/mozilla/gecko-dev/tree/master/browser/branding/official
OK, I -think- I understand what you are suggesting. I'd basically be
telling/forcing Fvwm to override the icon size choice it is currently
making in the case of Firefox. And I'd be doing it by forcing Fvwm to
use a .png of my choosing... which is exactly the kind of localized hack
that I myself had suggested earlier. But please answer me this: Why
should I even have to go through all this if the Firefox binary that
I'm using already has an built-in/compiled-in 48x48 icon? Why can't
I just tell Fvwm that my first preference for icon sizes in 48x48 in
all cases?
>So, basically, you probably want to use xwininfo on an Opera icon to
>find out how big it is, then download the appropriate sized defaultNN.png
>file and set it as Firefox's icon. This will override anything Firefox
>is hinting to fvwm and fvwm is picking up on.
See above. I'm still perplexed as to why I even need to resort to such a
hack.
And BTW, who or what is doing the apparent scaling on the Chromium icon?
Maybe I just need to get that thing working on my side, eh?
Re: FVWM: two questions about icons
On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 5:14 PM Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > > > In message <20190530185519.b4840320...@apps1.cs.toronto.edu>, > Chris Siebenmann wrote: > > This seems like such a simple thing. I just want the Firefox icon smaller. > given all fo teh obvciously massive configurability of Fvwm, I have to > believe that there -must- be a simple solution to this fairly trivial > little problem. And I'm holding out hope that somebody will just tell > me what it is. > I gave you a simple solution. Go find a firefox icon you like (google firefox icon and you'll have plenty of choice) and if it is a .png resize it to the size you want. If it is an .svg you can just tell fvwm what size to make it then use the Icon style. In general that is the best way in my experience is just tell fvwm what icon you want to use. Not try to extract this icon from the EWMH spec. jaimos
Re: FVWM: two questions about icons
In message , you wrote: >On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 9:43 PM Ronald F. Guilmette > wrote: >> >> >> >> Greetings, >> >> First, the icon used to repreesent minimuzed Firefox windows is >> substantially larger than t was for the prior version(s) of fvwm >> that I had been accustomed to using. Since I tend to have a LOT >> of different brwosers windoes open and minimized on my screen, >> this is likely to cause me some consternation, over the long run. >> >> So, is there an alternative minimized icon available for Firefox? >> > >Fvwm doesn't come with a set of icons. Fvwm will honor the apps icon >that it provides via EWMH standards. This is also the case for xterm >or any other program. > >If you don't like the icon provided by the application you can >configure fvwm to use custom icons via the Icon Style (or >WindowStyle). For example if you find a firefox icon and put it in >your ImagePath, you can tell fvwm to use it for firefox as follows: > >Style firefox Icon firefox.png > >(you could also just use a full path for your icon specification). > >If you like the minimized window look, there are some custom functions >that do this using imagemagick to create an icon image and use it. > >https://fvwmforums.org/wiki/Tips/ThumbnailsAsIcons/ Thanks for all this info. I'm going to try to fish the old Firefox icon out of my old FreeBSD system. If I can find it, then I'll try to see if I can get fvwm to use it as you've instructed. If all else fails, I suppose that I can always RTFM, although I didn't (and don't) really know anything at all about this EWMH you mentioned. (But Google is my friend.) Hummm... did a find on my old system's /usr directory, searching for .png files, and I found several candidates that may be what I'm looking for, but I don't know which one is the Right One. I guess that it might help if I knew the size of the icon that fvwm on the new system was using to represent Opera. That's the size I want. So, how can I figure out the location, in the file system, of the icon that fvwm is using (on the new system I am configuring) for the Opera browser? I looked at a couple of man pages and didn't files any FILES sections at the end. :-( Regards, rfg P.S. I've just -quickly- glanced at the man page for fvwm. I think that it is marvelous that someone went to all of the trouble to well and properly document this tool. However, that having been said, please forgive me for just noting that in all of my multiple decades of using UNIX systems, this has got to be, by far, the single biggest/longest man page that I personally have ever seen. That's -not- a bad thing. More documentation is almost always better documentation. It's just a bit bewildering for a casual user, such as myself, who doesn't really have a year or two to become familiar with all of this stuff. But I guess that's why this mailing list exists, eh?
Re: FVWM: two questions about icons
> On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 9:43 PM Ronald F. Guilmette > wrote: > > > Greetings, > > > > First, the icon used to repreesent minimuzed Firefox windows is > > substantially larger than t was for the prior version(s) of fvwm > > that I had been accustomed to using. Since I tend to have a LOT > > of different brwosers windoes open and minimized on my screen, > > this is likely to cause me some consternation, over the long run. > > > > So, is there an alternative minimized icon available for Firefox? > > > > Fvwm doesn't come with a set of icons. Fvwm will honor the apps icon > that it provides via EWMH standards. This is also the case for xterm > or any other program. There is a tricky qualification on this, which is that applications can supply a range of sizes for their icons and Fvwm has a hard-coded default and maximum size it will use. I'm not sure if this default size has changed over time, but if it has, this is one of the potential causes. It's also possible that Firefox is now offering bigger icons and fvwm is picking them now that they're available. (I ran into this when I switched to a HiDPI display and started looking at why fvwm was now only using tiny icons even when various programs had larger ones available.) Interested parties can look at the various #define's related to icon size in fvwm/ewmh_icons.c in the source code. Unfortunately I don't think there's a way to set these in your fvwmrc, although maybe I overlooked some icon size settings in the manual page. - cks
Re: FVWM: two questions about icons
On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 9:43 PM Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > > > > Greetings, > > First, the icon used to repreesent minimuzed Firefox windows is > substantially larger than t was for the prior version(s) of fvwm > that I had been accustomed to using. Since I tend to have a LOT > of different brwosers windoes open and minimized on my screen, > this is likely to cause me some consternation, over the long run. > > So, is there an alternative minimized icon available for Firefox? > Fvwm doesn't come with a set of icons. Fvwm will honor the apps icon that it provides via EWMH standards. This is also the case for xterm or any other program. If you don't like the icon provided by the application you can configure fvwm to use custom icons via the Icon Style (or WindowStyle). For example if you find a firefox icon and put it in your ImagePath, you can tell fvwm to use it for firefox as follows: Style firefox Icon firefox.png (you could also just use a full path for your icon specification). If you like the minimized window look, there are some custom functions that do this using imagemagick to create an icon image and use it. https://fvwmforums.org/wiki/Tips/ThumbnailsAsIcons/ jaimos
