Re: OSX is a 32-bit operating system?? is this true??

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 5:59 AM, Mark Sokolovsky wrote:

> I've noticed something. The government keeps us out of all of their
> little secrets. 64-bit is not ever close to being new. The standard
> computer out there today in best buy is 64-bit, while back in the
> 1960's the world's first 64-bit computer was overly protected by the
> government and was operated by scientists or NASA. 128-bit
> supercomputers were out to the military, NASA and scientists in the
> 1980's. Where in the world is our STANDARD 128-bit computers (AltiVec
> doesn't count!)? I am not being stupid or just saying random crap
> here. Go do the research yourself and you'll find that i'm correct. If
> the government is 40 years ahead of us,  they PROBABLY have 2048 bit
> or 1 gigabit systems and with processors running at 100Ghz with 1024
> cores with hard drive sizes bigger than we could ever imagine. But
> then again, they could be focusing on th jet pack which was a failed
> invention in the 1960's due to it's 20 second fuel supply (yes, it's
> the one where you put it on your back and press the 2 red buttons to
> fly, not joking lol.).


You can buy a flight pack
http://www.martinjetpack.com/how-do-i-buy-one.aspx

http://dvice.com/archives/2009/11/fly-away-in-a-j.php

Several models in fact. And like any advanced computers you may well not
have the money anyhow.



-- 
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Re: OSX is a 32-bit operating system?? is this true??

[Mark Sokolovsky]

I've noticed something. The government keeps us out of all of their
little secrets. 64-bit is not ever close to being new. The standard
computer out there today in best buy is 64-bit, while back in the
1960's the world's first 64-bit computer was overly protected by the
government and was operated by scientists or NASA. 128-bit
supercomputers were out to the military, NASA and scientists in the
1980's. Where in the world is our STANDARD 128-bit computers (AltiVec
doesn't count!)? I am not being stupid or just saying random crap
here. Go do the research yourself and you'll find that i'm correct. If
the government is 40 years ahead of us,  they PROBABLY have 2048 bit
or 1 gigabit systems and with processors running at 100Ghz with 1024
cores with hard drive sizes bigger than we could ever imagine. But
then again, they could be focusing on th jet pack which was a failed
invention in the 1960's due to it's 20 second fuel supply (yes, it's
the one where you put it on your back and press the 2 red buttons to
fly, not joking lol.).

-- 
 Sent from my Power mac G4 Sawtooth.

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Re: OSX is a 32-bit operating system?? is this true??

[iJohn]

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 11:43 PM, ah...clem  wrote:
> how can you tell if it's booting the 32-bit kernel or 64-bit kernel?

I look at what is listed in the System Profiler under "Software"

The image below is from the article at the 2'nd link.
http://macperformanceguide.com/images-SnowLeopard/Verify64bit.gif
http://macperformanceguide.com/SnowLeopard-64bit.html

Didn't look at the entire article that closely. But IIRC the info
about looking in System Profiler to check which flavor of the kernel
you are using is correct.

-irrational john

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Re: OSX is a 32-bit operating system?? is this true??

[Dan]

At 4:47 PM -0700 6/18/2010, ah...clem wrote:
i've just been informed by a reliable source that OSX is a 32-bit 
operating system,


Mac OS X has provided a 64-bit application environment for quite some 
time, on hardware that could support it.  Parts were there in Tiger, 
then more in Leopard.  But it wasn't until Snow Leopard's (OS X 10.6) 
release that there was a pure 64-bit kernel.


Yes, OS X runs in mixed mode.  The bitness of the kernel is 
essentially independent of the bitness of the higher/app layers.



and because of that, no application can address more than 2GB of RAM.


"RAM".  Are you talking about real memory or virtual?

In 32-bit mode, OS X provides each process with a 4 GB virtual 
address space.  Of course, not all that space is usable - some of it 
is mapped to shared frameworks etc.  Iffa you map less, you get more 
VM to play in.


In 64-bit mode, OS X provides each process with up to 16 EB.

Due to physical memory controller limitations, the max real memory 
space is 32 GB.  Maybe someday Intel will do something about that...


if this is true, i am shocked.  WTF is going on at apple??  hyping 
64-bit hardware for the past seven years and loading it with a 
32-bit OS???  can anyone confirm or refute this assertion?


The issue of 64-bitness in the kernel -- something which the app 
never has access to anyway -- is more about the hardware itself. 
It's tuff to sell a 64-bit kernel when so many peripherals don't work 
in that hardware environment at all.


At 9:35 PM -0400 6/18/2010, iJohn wrote:

there aren't a heck of a lot of apps out there which would
ever actually test the 32-bit memory limits.


Quite true.  The #1 benefit to a 64-bit system goes to the memory 
manufacturers.  They love the idea of selling you more memory, even 
if 2/3 of it goes unused.


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: OSX is a 32-bit operating system?? is this true??

[ah...clem]

how can you tell if it's booting the 32-bit kernel or 64-bit kernel?

btw, i am not a complete idiot.  i wrote code 40+y ago, in fortran G
and IBM Turbo assembler (one step above 1s and 0s).  at the time, i
had a moderate understanding of system level computing.  but i haven't
done anything like that since.  i tended to focus on what computers
could do for me, rather than the reverse.  if you've ever written
code, you know how tedious it can be.  thankfully some folks seem to
like it.  just not me.  i try to ignore the nuts and bolts if at all
possible.

On Jun 18, 9:35 pm, iJohn  wrote:

> Oh, great. At first I thought he was just an idiot, but it now appears
> he is a very intelligent and highly capable, competent, and
> accomplished idiot. Those can be trying to one's patience.

agreed.

> Perhaps his complaint is related to the fact that many of the Intel
> Macs are currently still booting the 32-bit kernel rather than the
> 64-bit kernel. My MacBook is also in this situation. But perhaps,
> unlike my MacBook, your "spiffy Mac" is one of the ones which can be
> coaxed into booting the 64-bit kernel by holding down the "6" and "4"
> keys during startup. If so then possibly you would be interested in
> booting that way and seeing if it makes any difference to this app,
> Spartan.
>
> -irrational john

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Re: Corsair Nova 32GB SSD On Sale for $69.99

[Chance Reecher]

Adapters do exist that convert PATA to SATA, but they are quite large 
and designed for use in desktops. I don' t think it would even be 
possible to fit such an adapter in a PowerBook, unless you did serious 
internal modifications to make space for the adapter.


Vic Mabus wrote:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nova-32GB-SSD-Rebate-Netbook,10697.html#xtor=RSS-181 



I saw this bargain on Tom's Hardware, but I haven't found any adapter 
that would allow me to put one of these in an old PowerBook with PATA 
(or is it PITA?) interface.  It would have to be quite slim.


Has anyone else run across an adapter that would work?

Thanx,
V Mabus



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Corsair Nova 32GB SSD On Sale for $69.99

[Vic Mabus]

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nova-32GB-SSD-Rebate-Netbook,10697.html#xtor=RSS-181

I saw this bargain on Tom's Hardware, but I haven't found any adapter 
that would allow me to put one of these in an old PowerBook with PATA 
(or is it PITA?) interface.  It would have to be quite slim.


Has anyone else run across an adapter that would work?

Thanx,
V Mabus

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Re: OSX is a 32-bit operating system?? is this true??

[Peter Haas]

On Jun 18, 2010, at 6:35 PM, iJohn wrote:


Perhaps his complaint is related to the fact that many of the Intel
Macs are currently still booting the 32-bit kernel rather than the
64-bit kernel.


Most likely.

My Product Hs boot Snow in 64-bit mode, and they work fine that way.

The only time I have to force 32-bit mode is when using an early  
video card, one which doesn't support 64-bit mode.


Even if the OS boots in 32-bit mode, or is forced to do so in account  
of video cards or perhaps some kernel extensions, the applications  
can operate in 64-bit mode, if the processor supports "Intel-64",  
which most do, even back to the pre-Core Pentiums.



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Re: OSX is a 32-bit operating system?? is this true??

[iJohn]

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 8:15 PM, ah...clem  wrote:
> ok, well this *clueless wanker* is Dr. Warren Hehre, developer of
> Spartan and numerous other scientific computing apps, who has been
> writing apps for MacOS for the past 20 years.

Oh, great. At first I thought he was just an idiot, but it now appears
he is a very intelligent and highly capable, competent, and
accomplished idiot. Those can be trying to one's patience.

I would guess he's wrong in a very general sense but very right in a
very specific probably technical sense. Especially so about what
pertains to his programs. Do you have any more details about what he
specifically said needed to be updated?

FWIW, I was Googling about for potentially informative comments about
OS X "bit-ness" and look what popped up near the top of the Google
search list.
A blog piece by Dan Knight back on 2009.08.19 titled "The 64-Bitness
of Mac OS X 10.6 'Snow Leopard'".
http://lowendmac.com/musings/09mm/64-bit-snow-leopard.html

> i have a spiffy new 3.3
> GHz 2010 Mac that came with SL 10.6.3 factory installed, and i also
> have the latest version of Spartan, which cannot access more than 2GB
> of RAM.

Perhaps his complaint is related to the fact that many of the Intel
Macs are currently still booting the 32-bit kernel rather than the
64-bit kernel. My MacBook is also in this situation. But perhaps,
unlike my MacBook, your "spiffy Mac" is one of the ones which can be
coaxed into booting the 64-bit kernel by holding down the "6" and "4"
keys during startup. If so then possibly you would be interested in
booting that way and seeing if it makes any difference to this app,
Spartan.

Or perhaps Dr. Hehre's concern is something else altogether. Either
way I hope we eventually get a better understanding of just what it is
he means. Because in general he is wrong. Even running the 32-bit
kernel any application that is written as a 64-bit app should be able
to address more than 4GB of RAM. (Assuming some other physical
restriction in the system does not prohibit this).

Or at least that's my understanding now. Admittedly there aren't a
heck of a lot of apps out there which would ever actually test the
32-bit memory limits. The more typical benefits of moving to 64-bit
mode are slightly faster execution due to the larger number of
registers in the CPU. (And probably other stuff ... ??)

-irrational john

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Re: OS X upgrade question

[JOHN CARMONNE]

On Jun 18, 2010, at 5:20 PM, Daniel Stewart wrote:


I should probably mention that it says on the Software Restore disks
that it is compatible with OS 10.1.2 and OS 9.22.  Should that give me
problems with 104.11?




Just do straight 10.4 and the the updates to 10.4.11. you can skip  
all the

other stuff.


AFAIK you should be able to get the applications from the original  
disc's. The 9.2.2 is the only thing your Tiger 10.4 for the "Lamp  
Shade" doesn't have. Just drag the 9.2.2 stuff to the HDD with the  
Tiger on it. 9 needs no installation.


JOHN CARMONNE
Yorba Linda USA
From TiBook 800




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Re: OS X upgrade question

[Daniel Stewart]

I should probably mention that it says on the Software Restore disks
that it is compatible with OS 10.1.2 and OS 9.22.  Should that give me
problems with 104.11?

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 6:59 PM, JOHN CARMONNE  wrote:
>
> On Jun 18, 2010, at 4:56 PM, Scotty wrote:
>
>> This may fit under the heading of stupid newbie questions so please be
>> patient with me.  My Mac may be 8 years old, but I am really new to
>> the platform.
>>
>> I have a G4 933 mhz Quicksilver.   When I bought it had a clean
>> install of OSX 10.5 on it, but no 10.5 disk was included with it.
>> Anyway.  The software that came with is the original 'grey' copy of
>> 10.1 , all the original application disks plus a retail copy of 10.2
>> and I have 10.4 from my old lampshade G4 iMac.  Anyway.  What I am
>> wondering is if I can start by installing the original OS 10.1 and the
>> original application disks then can I install 10.4 as an upgrade and
>> without affecting the original application installs or should I try
>> loading the original application disks that came with 10.1 after I
>> have 10.4 installed or does it even matter.
>>
>> Basically I want to get 10.4 Tiger installed with the original
>> quicksilver applications installed if possible.
>
>
>
> Just do straight 10.4 and the the updates to 10.4.11. you can skip all the
> other stuff.
>
>
>
> JOHN CARMONNE
> Yorba Linda USA
> From TiBook 800
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
> Macs.
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> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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OSX is a 32-bit operating system?? is this true??

[ah...clem]

ok, well this *clueless wanker* is Dr. Warren Hehre, developer of
Spartan and numerous other scientific computing apps, who has been
writing apps for MacOS for the past 20 years.  i have a spiffy new 3.3
GHz 2010 Mac that came with SL 10.6.3 factory installed, and i also
have the latest version of Spartan, which cannot access more than 2GB
of RAM.  he also told me that Apple *promises* that the next update of
SL will actually allow 64-bit apps to access more than 2 GB of RAM.  i
believe 10.6.4 just became available, but i haven't had an opportunity
to install it yet, as the computer is busy crunching numbers.

On Jun 18, 8:00 pm, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:
> On Jun 18, 2010, at 4:47 PM, ah...clem wrote:
>
> > i've just been informed by a reliable source that OSX is a 32-bit
>
> s/reliable source/clueless wanker/
>
> There, fixed it for yah.
>
> In actuality it is both. up through 10.5 OS X was 32-bit (with 64 bit parts 
> on some systems, notably the G5's)
>
> 10.6 is fully 64-bit, on supported hardware. (My Core Duo 1st gen intel iMac 
> is installed in 32-bit mode, but newer intel systems are 64-bit.)
>
> --
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group
>
> Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Re: OSX is a 32-bit operating system?? is this true??

[iJohn]

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 7:47 PM, ah...clem  wrote:
> i've just been informed by a reliable source that OSX is a 32-bit
> operating system, and because of that, no application can address more
> than 2GB of RAM.

Well, no. Your reliable source is apparently not so reliable. The
complete answer is ... as always ... actually more complicated and
involved. You'll no doubt get more of it in follow-up posts.

But certainly there is no OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) there is no limit
imposed by the operating system that limits an application to 2GB of
RAM.

BTW, that 2GB limit for a 32 bit address strikes me as more of a
Windows limit, not OS X. I think a 32-bit OS X app can actually
address up to 4GB. Not positive so we'll see if I get shot down in the
follow-ups.

-irrational john

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Re: Dual 1GHz Quicksilver won't sleep!

[Al Poulin]

And for "The Insomniac Mac," look here:
http://www.macworld.com/article/48345/2005/12/nonightnight.html

Al Poulin

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Re: OSX is a 32-bit operating system?? is this true??

[Bruce Johnson]

Oops, sorry forgot to remove the spam marker our server put on that.


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: ***SPAM*** OSX is a 32-bit operating system?? is this true??

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jun 18, 2010, at 4:47 PM, ah...clem wrote:

> i've just been informed by a reliable source that OSX is a 32-bit

s/reliable source/clueless wanker/

There, fixed it for yah.

In actuality it is both. up through 10.5 OS X was 32-bit (with 64 bit parts on 
some systems, notably the G5's)

10.6 is fully 64-bit, on supported hardware. (My Core Duo 1st gen intel iMac is 
installed in 32-bit mode, but newer intel systems are 64-bit.)


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: OS X upgrade question

[JOHN CARMONNE]

On Jun 18, 2010, at 4:56 PM, Scotty wrote:


This may fit under the heading of stupid newbie questions so please be
patient with me.  My Mac may be 8 years old, but I am really new to
the platform.

I have a G4 933 mhz Quicksilver.   When I bought it had a clean
install of OSX 10.5 on it, but no 10.5 disk was included with it.
Anyway.  The software that came with is the original 'grey' copy of
10.1 , all the original application disks plus a retail copy of 10.2
and I have 10.4 from my old lampshade G4 iMac.  Anyway.  What I am
wondering is if I can start by installing the original OS 10.1 and the
original application disks then can I install 10.4 as an upgrade and
without affecting the original application installs or should I try
loading the original application disks that came with 10.1 after I
have 10.4 installed or does it even matter.

Basically I want to get 10.4 Tiger installed with the original
quicksilver applications installed if possible.




Just do straight 10.4 and the the updates to 10.4.11. you can skip  
all the other stuff.




JOHN CARMONNE
Yorba Linda USA
From TiBook 800




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Re: OSX is a 32-bit operating system?? is this true??

[Daniel Stewart]

I don't know for sure, but up until recently there has been so few 64
bit applications out there to make it largely irrelevant until fairly
recently.

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 6:47 PM, ah...clem  wrote:
> i've just been informed by a reliable source that OSX is a 32-bit
> operating system, and because of that, no application can address more
> than 2GB of RAM.  if this is true, i am shocked.  WTF is going on at
> apple??  hyping 64-bit hardware for the past seven years and loading
> it with a 32-bit OS???  can anyone confirm or refute this assertion?
>
> --
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OS X upgrade question

[Scotty]

This may fit under the heading of stupid newbie questions so please be
patient with me.  My Mac may be 8 years old, but I am really new to
the platform.

I have a G4 933 mhz Quicksilver.   When I bought it had a clean
install of OSX 10.5 on it, but no 10.5 disk was included with it.
Anyway.  The software that came with is the original 'grey' copy of
10.1 , all the original application disks plus a retail copy of 10.2
and I have 10.4 from my old lampshade G4 iMac.  Anyway.  What I am
wondering is if I can start by installing the original OS 10.1 and the
original application disks then can I install 10.4 as an upgrade and
without affecting the original application installs or should I try
loading the original application disks that came with 10.1 after I
have 10.4 installed or does it even matter.

Basically I want to get 10.4 Tiger installed with the original
quicksilver applications installed if possible.

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OSX is a 32-bit operating system?? is this true??

[ah...clem]

i've just been informed by a reliable source that OSX is a 32-bit
operating system, and because of that, no application can address more
than 2GB of RAM.  if this is true, i am shocked.  WTF is going on at
apple??  hyping 64-bit hardware for the past seven years and loading
it with a 32-bit OS???  can anyone confirm or refute this assertion?

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[Manager Comment] Re: Security Update 2010-004 for Leopard 10.5

[Fabian Fang]

On Jun 18, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Dan wrote:


At 1:11 AM -0700 6/18/2010, Ed Grey wrote:

test


Unless you're the list administrator, there is NEVER a need to send  
a test message to an entire mailing list.  Be considerate.  There  
are people on the lists with slow and/or metered connections.  Don't  
waste their bandwidth.  In the furture, if you're worried, go look  
at the group via the web and take note of your previous postings.



It is a violation of Netiquette for all LEM Groups to post "test"  
messages.




Sometimes members become impatient when their messages do not appear  
instantly.  In most such cases it is because the affected members have  
been placed under moderation by a Group Manager, typically for  
violation of group rules, so that their messages have to be reviewed  
and approved by a Group Manager, then released for posting to the Group.


Fabian Fang
LEM G-Group Manager

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Re: Security Update 2010-004 for Leopard 10.5

[Dan]

At 1:02 AM -0700 6/18/2010, Ed Grey wrote:

My understanding is that Apple is not releasing any more security
updates for Tiger.


"My understanding".  Yea, a lot of people suddenly understand that -- 
but there has been no announcement from Apple.  So it's just a guess.



There are still some updates for apps that run in Tiger,


Some?  Thousands per month.


but even Firefox is discontinuing support after version 3.6.


Of course app developers are moving on.  Apple forces this by making 
it more and more difficult to produce older-OS compatible builds in 
XCode.


heh.   I'm starting to run into things that only run on the latest 
version of Snow Leopard.


At 1:11 AM -0700 6/18/2010, Ed Grey wrote:

test


Unless you're the list administrator, there is NEVER a need to send a 
test message to an entire mailing list.  Be considerate.  There are 
people on the lists with slow and/or metered connections.  Don't 
waste their bandwidth.  In the furture, if you're worried, go look at 
the group via the web and take note of your previous postings.


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: Security Update 2010-004 for Leopard 10.5

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> I have never really felt insecure running a Mac wide open on the internet 
> since the OS 8 days. The only virus infection I've EVER gotten on any of my 
> Macs was the WDEF virus. I've taken precaustions with


The life of a sysadmin is interrupt-driven.

What I MEANT to say was:

I've taken precautions with my iMac at work, but that's because I do have 
things open like remote login, am running file-sharing, am running Apache, have 
PHP installed and working, etc., AND my iMac has an internet accessible IP 
address. Hit  and that's my imac. 

At any given time I may be running MySQL, testing CGI scripts, etc etc.

In other words, in many respect my iMac is behaving as much as a server as it 
is a workstation. Most people's Mac are not. That requires server-level 
security attention.



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Security Update 2010-004 for Leopard 10.5

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jun 18, 2010, at 1:05 AM, Ed Grey wrote:

> 
> That leads to the question I was going to ask before I saw this thread
> - without new security updates, is there any reason to worry about
> using Tiger on the Internet?

Almost all of the security updates involve either local privilege escalation, 
meaning the bad guy has to already have a local account, or involve fixes to 
third party software shipped with OS X (the Open source Unix stuff) which you 
may or may not be using. (or in both cases may not even HAVE in 10.4)

As a rule, if you don't have any of the boxes checked in the sharing panel in 
Sharing prefs, your Mac is pretty much protected against external attacks 
conducted without your assistance.

Moreover, if you're a typical home user, behind a NAT (such as a cable router 
or wireless access router, like an Airport) the bad guys can't GET to your 
computer from the outside; all interaction needs to be initiated from YOUR side 
of the connection.

OS X, for all the hype that's constantly generated out there by self-serving 
"security" folks with an agenda or sales pitch, is a very low risk system. By 
design it's harder to attack and by population it's a smaller target.

Anyone is vulnerable to a 'trojan horse' type attack, if you install the bad 
guy's back door for him you're toast; however, these sorts of attacks have been 
tried and don't seem to go anywhere. As I said, by design OS X is a lot 
safer...it's harder to attack successfully. 

So far the only ones seen in the wild have been found in places like warez 
trading and porn sites.

I have never really felt insecure running a Mac wide open on the internet since 
the OS 8 days. The only virus infection I've EVER gotten on any of my Macs was 
the WDEF virus. I've taken precaustions with

That was cured, permanently, by bringing a bunch of floppies to the college 
bookstore and getting a copy of that new-fangled OS 7 everyone had been talking 
about 8-)

It is prudent to install the security updates; moreso if you mess around with 
Unix stuff on your Mac...but if you're doing that, it's kinda presumed that you 
are taking the requisite care to avoid getting pwned.

Is the Mac un-hackable? Not in the slightest. If a sufficiently talented and 
motivated bad guy sets his or her sights on you, your system can be 
compromised. Are you vulnerable to the run-of-the mill skriptkiddy and botnet 
attacks? Pretty much yes. 

Those are all lowest-common-denominator wholesale mass attacks, based on people 
running bogus 'greeting cards' or 'sales orders' or the...

"Your account of the email writings Storage has been delimitized due to 
spamattacks, please to click here and verify your dearest details. Thank you 
The IT Technology Mail Expediting Support Team" 

...emails that supposedly come from your systems administrators or ISP, now 
that apparently they've been outsourced to some random email address in Romania.

95% of internet security is the purely human task of recognizing when something 
isn't rightlike those emails: just trash 'em. They will NEVER be 
legitimate. Clicking on a web page should never cause an OSX permissions dialog 
to pop up on your computer asking for permission to install something. If it 
does it's either ^...@%@!#$@ Adobe with Flash 10.2.34455456.678675.456 that 
they updated with all fresh security holes ten minutes ago or it's malware.

(There is great debate as to whether there is actually a difference.)

Long story short, you're probably OK. 

If you use some of the underlying 3rd party technologies that are updated 
(Apache, various languages, other utilities, etc) and are still using 10.4 it 
behooves you to go get the patches from the original third parties and fix it 
yourself.

Note, this implies that you have such expertise...if you don't, there are 
usually many ways to make your computer do the work. 

If you don't use these things, then you don't need to worry. If you are 
seriously concerned, go dig up the Apple security guide for 10.4, the one 
developed in conjunction with the NSA, and follow those directions. You'll have 
a secure mac, believe me

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Preparing my "new" G4 MDD 1.42GHz 'puter

[onelucent]

Many suggestions on xlr8yourmac.com

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Re: Preparing my "new" G4 MDD 1.42GHz 'puter

[Illirik Smirnov]

Gratz on the 1.44! I've been looking for one in nice shape. The NOISE
problem is a biggun, but a good way is to get some sheets of foam and
cut/tape them so that they are attached to the sides of the computer. It
dampens noise. No joke, my 747-esque SPARCSTATION has a 2-inch thick
styrofoam wall, and is much quiter (although it looks ridiculous).
Sent from a computer running either the SPARC, Itanium, or PowerPC
architecture.


On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Ken Daggett  wrote:

>
> On 18 Jun 2010, at 07:59:18 PDT, JIM RAPER wrote:
>
>  2nd ? I will tackle the NOISE problem next. It is solvable, isn't it?
>>
> -
> Buy some long cables and put in another room! It sure is quiet in
> my family room when the MDD shuts down!
>
> Ken
> http://mysite.verizon.net/res7gt1w/stackomacs
>
>
>
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Re: Preparing my "new" G4 MDD 1.42GHz 'puter

[Ken Daggett]

On 18 Jun 2010, at 07:59:18 PDT, JIM RAPER wrote:


2nd ? I will tackle the NOISE problem next. It is solvable, isn't it?

-
Buy some long cables and put in another room! It sure is quiet in
my family room when the MDD shuts down!

Ken
http://mysite.verizon.net/res7gt1w/stackomacs


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Preparing my "new" G4 MDD 1.42GHz 'puter

[JIM RAPER]

Hi, Got the above mentioned computer Wed. Couple of, hopefully, simple
questions. I have loads of bookmarks on my old Sawtooth. Is there an easy
way to transfer them over into FireFox Bookmarks? I have been able to save
them to a Flash drive and they are live when I open up the flash in my MDD.

2nd ? I will tackle the NOISE problem next. It is solvable, isn't it? I'm
fairly certain that this problem is discussed at some length in the
g3-5-list archive if someone would remind me or instruct me how to access
the Archives.

Thanks.  Jim

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Re: Is there any way to use a Panther upgrade CD set to install onto a blank hard drive?

[Kris Tilford]

The only difference in an "upgrade" disc and a full installer is that  
there is a "CheckForOSX" file that checks for a previous OS X version  
on the HD and blocks you if it isn't there. You need to remove this  
"CheckForOSX" file. Here are instructions:


Here's the method for a Leopard upgrade disc, it should be almost  
identical on a Panther disc:


Here's the method for a Jaguar upgrade disc, so if the Leopard has  
changed something, this may be closer:



The key is that you're removing the "CheckForOSX" and burning a new CD  
without it. Then you've got a full retail installer disc.


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Is there any way to use a Panther upgrade CD set to install onto a blank hard drive?

[Ed Grey]

I discovered that I have a set of 10.3 Panther CD's, but even though
they're the black retail-looking ones, the first disc (of 3) says
"Upgrade" on it. I know there was a way to use a Leopard upgrade disc
to a blank drive, but that trick involved Time Machine, which didn't
exist with 10.3.

So - is there a way to use this set to install to a blank drive? I
don't have 10.2 running on anything, and no copy of the 10.2 installer.

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Re: Security Update 2010-004 for Leopard 10.5

[Ed Grey]

test

On Jun 18, 3:05 am, Ed Grey  wrote:
> On Jun 16, 3:44 am, Kris Tilford  wrote:
>
> > Apple hasn't yet issued a security update for Tiger, so perhaps it's
> > truly abandoned forever now?
>
> My understanding is that Apple is not releasing any more security
> updates for Tiger. There are still some updates for apps that run in
> Tiger, but even Firefox is discontinuing support after version 3.6.
>
> That leads to the question I was going to ask before I saw this thread
> - without new security updates, is there any reason to worry about
> using Tiger on the Internet?

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Re: Security Update 2010-004 for Leopard 10.5

[Ed Grey]

On Jun 16, 3:44 am, Kris Tilford  wrote:
> Apple hasn't yet issued a security update for Tiger, so perhaps it's
> truly abandoned forever now?
>

My understanding is that Apple is not releasing any more security
updates for Tiger. There are still some updates for apps that run in
Tiger, but even Firefox is discontinuing support after version 3.6.

That leads to the question I was going to ask before I saw this thread
- without new security updates, is there any reason to worry about
using Tiger on the Internet?

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Re: Security Update 2010-004 for Leopard 10.5

[Ed Grey]

My understanding is that Apple is not releasing any more security
updates for Tiger. There are still some updates for apps that run in
Tiger, but even Firefox is discontinuing support after version 3.6.

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