Re: Tiger/Classic on dual G4/5
Just restarted Tiger on my Pismo/400MHZ, 1GB ram), started Activity Monitor, no other programs - System taking 1-5% Idle 87-96% Remainder would be Activity Monitor. Started Classic Started Pagemaker - no documents/files open - System 13-25% TrueBlue(Classic) 72-82% Activity Monitor 3-7% Idle 0% ! Always like that when Pagemaker is running. On 27 /04/ 2012, at 04:24, Clark Martin wrote: On Apr 26, 2012, at 12:38 PM, Dan wrote: On Apr 22, 2012, at 3:39 PM, geraldcornish wrote: Current setup is Pismo 500MHz/1GB Ram/100GB HDD Tiger 10.4.11 OS 9.2.2 Intention is to upgrade to Dual G4/G5 but keeping Tiger/Classic. My better half needs to use Pagemaker in classic while using OSX simultaneously. Pagemaker uses up all the spare cpu cycles and slows down all other programs, and I assume this would still be the case with a faster Mac. Depends on how PageMaker is written. If it's polling for user input continuously, then it will certainly always (try to) use some cpu time, not a lot %-wise if you have lots to spare. That's OS 9 (and below) for you. Seems odd to me that PageMaker would be continuously piggy. Have you watched the system with Activity Monitor, to see what resources are actually in such low demand that the whole system runs slowly? if we move to a dual G4/G5 how does Tiger handle the two cpus? OS X (and OS 9) supports multiple processors (discrete, multi core, threads) two ways. First: when a process or thread is ready for cpu time, it is dispatched to one of the CPU/cores. Second: if the application knows how to use non-sequential threads, then the threads are dispatched the same way - to whichever CPU/core has time available. OS 9 supports letting programs use multiple processors but it's up to the program to handle multiple threads. Will it assign classic/pagemaker to one cpu only, leaving the other cpu to do any OSX work needed? No. Under OS X, scheduling is done preemptively, as resources are available. That means a process is given a quantum time slice on a CPU/core, and the CPU is taken away when the slice ends or when the process becomes otherwise blocked (waiting for i/o, etc). Classic is a process under OS X... so when its slice ends, the app running within Classic is suspended. When the next slice is available to that process, it is re-assigned to a CPU/core... Of course, if the process is still loaded in one particular CPU/ core, then assignment preference is given to using that particular CPU/core. But Pagemaker will be using only one CPU at a time (I'm guessing that OS X doesn't support OS 9's version of multiprocessor support. This would be ideal for us if one cpu is kept free of the Pagemaker loading. You need to think of the OS being the high muckety, not the CPU. The CPU, like memory, is *just* a resource that the OS controls / manages. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/ group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Tiger/Classic on dual G4/5
On Apr 22, 2012, at 3:39 PM, geraldcornish wrote: Current setup is Pismo 500MHz/1GB Ram/100GB HDD Tiger 10.4.11 OS 9.2.2 Intention is to upgrade to Dual G4/G5 but keeping Tiger/Classic. My better half needs to use Pagemaker in classic while using OSX simultaneously. Pagemaker uses up all the spare cpu cycles and slows down all other programs, and I assume this would still be the case with a faster Mac. Depends on how PageMaker is written. If it's polling for user input continuously, then it will certainly always (try to) use some cpu time, not a lot %-wise if you have lots to spare. Seems odd to me that PageMaker would be continuously piggy. Have you watched the system with Activity Monitor, to see what resources are actually in such low demand that the whole system runs slowly? if we move to a dual G4/G5 how does Tiger handle the two cpus? OS X (and OS 9) supports multiple processors (discrete, multi core, threads) two ways. First: when a process or thread is ready for cpu time, it is dispatched to one of the CPU/cores. Second: if the application knows how to use non-sequential threads, then the threads are dispatched the same way - to whichever CPU/core has time available. Will it assign classic/pagemaker to one cpu only, leaving the other cpu to do any OSX work needed? No. Under OS X, scheduling is done preemptively, as resources are available. That means a process is given a quantum time slice on a CPU/core, and the CPU is taken away when the slice ends or when the process becomes otherwise blocked (waiting for i/o, etc). Classic is a process under OS X... so when its slice ends, the app running within Classic is suspended. When the next slice is available to that process, it is re-assigned to a CPU/core... Of course, if the process is still loaded in one particular CPU/core, then assignment preference is given to using that particular CPU/core. This would be ideal for us if one cpu is kept free of the Pagemaker loading. You need to think of the OS being the high muckety, not the CPU. The CPU, like memory, is *just* a resource that the OS controls / manages. See John's reply wrt machine choice and bootability. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Tiger/Classic on dual G4/5
Will it assign classic/pagemaker to one cpu only, leaving the other cpu to do any OSX work needed? No. Under OS X, scheduling is done preemptively, as resources are available. That means a process is given a quantum time slice on a CPU/core, and the CPU is taken away when the slice ends or when the process becomes otherwise blocked (waiting for i/o, etc). Classic is a process under OS X... so when its slice ends, the app running within Classic is suspended. When the next slice is available to that process, it is re-assigned to a CPU/core... Of course, if the process is still loaded in one particular CPU/core, then assignment preference is given to using that particular CPU/core. Just to throw a wrench into this otherwise accurate description, I haven't looked into how Classic handles apps that use the Multiprocessing API, but I presume that TruBluEnvironment has all the tasks within it, including MPTasks, as threads. I need to look into this at some point. -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Tiger/Classic on dual G4/5
On Apr 26, 2012, at 12:38 PM, Dan wrote: On Apr 22, 2012, at 3:39 PM, geraldcornish wrote: Current setup is Pismo 500MHz/1GB Ram/100GB HDD Tiger 10.4.11 OS 9.2.2 Intention is to upgrade to Dual G4/G5 but keeping Tiger/Classic. My better half needs to use Pagemaker in classic while using OSX simultaneously. Pagemaker uses up all the spare cpu cycles and slows down all other programs, and I assume this would still be the case with a faster Mac. Depends on how PageMaker is written. If it's polling for user input continuously, then it will certainly always (try to) use some cpu time, not a lot %-wise if you have lots to spare. That's OS 9 (and below) for you. Seems odd to me that PageMaker would be continuously piggy. Have you watched the system with Activity Monitor, to see what resources are actually in such low demand that the whole system runs slowly? if we move to a dual G4/G5 how does Tiger handle the two cpus? OS X (and OS 9) supports multiple processors (discrete, multi core, threads) two ways. First: when a process or thread is ready for cpu time, it is dispatched to one of the CPU/cores. Second: if the application knows how to use non-sequential threads, then the threads are dispatched the same way - to whichever CPU/core has time available. OS 9 supports letting programs use multiple processors but it's up to the program to handle multiple threads. Will it assign classic/pagemaker to one cpu only, leaving the other cpu to do any OSX work needed? No. Under OS X, scheduling is done preemptively, as resources are available. That means a process is given a quantum time slice on a CPU/core, and the CPU is taken away when the slice ends or when the process becomes otherwise blocked (waiting for i/o, etc). Classic is a process under OS X... so when its slice ends, the app running within Classic is suspended. When the next slice is available to that process, it is re-assigned to a CPU/core... Of course, if the process is still loaded in one particular CPU/core, then assignment preference is given to using that particular CPU/core. But Pagemaker will be using only one CPU at a time (I'm guessing that OS X doesn't support OS 9's version of multiprocessor support. This would be ideal for us if one cpu is kept free of the Pagemaker loading. You need to think of the OS being the high muckety, not the CPU. The CPU, like memory, is *just* a resource that the OS controls / manages. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Tiger/Classic on dual G4/5
Hi all, Current setup is Pismo 500MHz/1GB Ram/100GB HDD Tiger 10.4.11 OS 9.2.2 Intention is to upgrade to Dual G4/G5 but keeping Tiger/Classic. My better half needs to use Pagemaker in classic while using OSX simultaneously. Pagemaker uses up all the spare cpu cycles and slows down all other programs, and I assume this would still be the case with a faster Mac. My question is - if we move to a dual G4/G5 how does Tiger handle the two cpus? Will it assign classic/pagemaker to one cpu only, leaving the other cpu to do any OSX work needed? This would be ideal for us if one cpu is kept free of the Pagemaker loading. TIA Ged -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Tiger/Classic on dual G4/5
On Apr 22, 2012, at 3:39 PM, geraldcornish wrote: Hi all, Current setup is Pismo 500MHz/1GB Ram/100GB HDD Tiger 10.4.11 OS 9.2.2 Intention is to upgrade to Dual G4/G5 but keeping Tiger/Classic. My better half needs to use Pagemaker in classic while using OSX simultaneously. Pagemaker uses up all the spare cpu cycles and slows down all other programs, and I assume this would still be the case with a faster Mac. My question is - if we move to a dual G4/G5 how does Tiger handle the two cpus? Will it assign classic/pagemaker to one cpu only, leaving the other cpu to do any OSX work needed? This would be ideal for us if one cpu is kept free of the Pagemaker loading. TIA Ged G4 PM up to Dual 1.25 F/W 400 will boot both 9.2.2 and 10.4.11 where G5 PM will not boot OS9..2.2 but will run Classic along with Tiger. Ive done it with Pagemaker 7. John Carmonne Yorba Linda CA 92886 USA MacBook Pro i7 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
