Re: Solid State Laptop Drives
At 12:20 AM -0500 9/8/2008, Ralph wrote: On Sun, 2008-09-07 at 15:39 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think these are things to consider when cobbling together a solid state boot drive with X. You have it exactly right. If your only disk drive is a solid state one, my first choice would be to add enough memory that you won't need virtual memory. Then, I would disable virtual memory. Given enough memory, OS X barely pages. Disabling VM would cripple much of the system. Better to just add RAM then if you really need, kindof bizarre but - page to a RAM disk. You can monitor this with Activity Monitor. Watch the page *out* rate in the Memory pane. If you have enough RAM available, that number won't budge much. Page *in* will fly because image activation (app launch) is done by paging in (reading). In this case, it's just *out* that counts - the writes using up cycle life of the card. My second choice would be to use a commercial solid state drive, not just an adapter and cf cards. yea. The static ram used in real ram drives has a much higher cycle life. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Solid State Laptop Drives
I don't know... the 5300 can't even run 9.2.2, much less OS X. Anyway 1.2 GB wouldn't hold OS X. If you want to use OS X you could fit it onto an 8 GB card if you leave out your unneccesary languages and printer drivers. On Sep 6, 6:19 pm, Simon Royal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DC Does this work under OSX or just OS9? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Solid State Laptop Drives
On Sep 6, 5:24 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: starrfarr wrote: Cyberguys offers adapter cards that convert CF cards to either ata or sata so you could plug them into a computer to function exactly as a drive. Such a device that would accept SDHC cards could be VERY useful. Would this work:http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/adidesd.asp Should. I think this is the same hardware Cyberguys sells but the site offers other options. For example, this one will carry two CF cards: http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad44midecf.asp The hardware itself is quite inexpensive, but two 4 gig CF cards, especially fast ones, could break the bank. They do offer an SD card reader (http://www.addonics.com/products/ flash_memory_reader/adidesd.asp) but it might be harder to drop in a laptop, while they give directions for doing just that for the CF card readers. None of this is ideal, but I think a solution is coming soon. I can't believe how many images and high res video fit on a single 8gig SDHC card. Smaller, faster cheaper. All we have to do is wait. Rich --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Solid State Laptop Drives
I like this one for my older G3 and G4 towers: http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad4cfprj.asp With this PCI card and 4 x 32 GB CF cards set up in RAID 0 I could have a total of 128 GB, fast, silent, cool all for just under $1000.00! Until the price comes down on the CF cards the only practical (for me) use would be in a laptop or G4 Cube, where heat can be a real issue. A 32 GB card could hold OS X + a fair amount of data; if the Processor's life is extended by the cooler drive it might turn out to be a good long-term investment. On Sep 7, 11:19 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 6, 5:24 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: starrfarr wrote: Cyberguys offers adapter cards that convert CF cards to either ata or sata so you could plug them into a computer to function exactly as a drive. Such a device that would accept SDHC cards could be VERY useful. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Solid State Laptop Drives
Howdy, The solid state hard drives have advantages and disadvantages. Read times tend to be very quick because they are random access devices. Write times are usually slower than hard drives because of the way flash memory works. And writing is the big limitation to using these as hard drive replacements. Flash memory can only be written to a limited number of times. The limit varies, depending on a number of factors. SLC(single level cell) flash is best for the number of write cycles and that is used in all of the solid state hard drives. Most current CF cards and SD cards seem to be MLC(multi level cell) flash and they won't last nearly as long. I say seem to be, because consumer grade flash memory does not usually disclose that information. A manufacturer of high grade USB drives was interviewed recently and he said that most flash shipped today is MLC. MLC is cheaper, and denser, but won't last as long. The controllers built into real solid state drives do one other important thing, called wear leveling. It changes the physical cells that are written to when the computer calls for the same address to be written to. A pretty good article on the subject is here: http://www.bitmicro.com/press_resources_flash_ssd.php I have seen a system kill a flash drive in just an hour or two. That was a test where I used an IDE to CF card adapter. I used a general consumer grade CF card and put a swap file on the CF card. Note that putting a swap file on a flash drive is a bad thing to do and this was a test to see if if would really fail, as I had read it would. I have seen lots of reports of the solid state drives failing in the field after 6 months or so of use. I think the problem is people treating their SSD like a hard drive, but I have not seen good data on this. I had one I ran for a couple of years with no problem. I was careful with the setup on that system to be sure writes were minimized. Sandisk has been making drop in replacements for laptop IDE drives(and other form factors) for years. Mine was an 800 meg drive with industrial (not consumer grade) flash memory. MLC was not even available at the time, so it had SLC. So, keep in mind the limitations and flash memory is very useful. No moving parts is a big plus for a laptop. I plan to buy a netbook of some kind soon. I'll use an SD card for most of my temporary storage and I can replace that every once in a while. It should do fine. Good luck, Ralph On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 21:17 +0100, Simon Royal wrote: I was looking on eBay and stumbled across solid state laptop hard drives. How much difference would they make to a laptops speed? Can they be fitted to any laptop or are they only SATA? I couldn't find any IDE ones. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Solid State Laptop Drives
On Sep 4, 4:17 pm, Simon Royal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I was looking on eBay and stumbled across solid state laptop hard drives. How much difference would they make to a laptops speed? Can they be fitted to any laptop or are they only SATA? I couldn't find any IDE ones. Simon I don't know how relevant this is but I think it is interesting. Cyberguys offers adapter cards that convert CF cards to either ata or sata so you could plug them into a computer to function exactly as a drive (pn 168 0201 and 168 0202). They connect to the standard internal drive connectors. I guess you could replace the internal drive of a MacBook with the sata version of one. But it would have small capacity and be slow. Of course, Compact Flash cards aren't as much used as they were and are not as cheap as SD cards in large sizes. Such a device that would accept SDHC cards could be VERY useful. These are the ones starting to be used in camcorders to replace tape, drives or DVD recording. They can have large capacity, are very fast and above all are amazingly cheap. I paid less than $30 for an 8 gig card for my Lumix camera. I paid less than $10 for a compatible card reader. Solid state memory will certainly replace mechanical methods in every application. It's cheaper, smaller and more releable. Maybe soon. Rich --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Solid State Laptop Drives
Just for fun I put a SSHD in my PowerBook 5200cs. I used a SanDisk memory card in the lower pc slot, formatted it using Drive Setup, and copied the OS 9.1 system onto it. It boots and runs perfectly, no noise, no heat, low power consumption, only cost $10. Now I'm wondering if one of these would work in a G4's Airport slot? On Sep 4, 5:29 pm, Bruce Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 4, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Simon Royal wrote: Bruce Thanks for that. They are very expensive. £60 for a 32GB drive, when you pick up an IDE drive for under £10 is a big difference. Simon Yeah, that's why the SSD based MacBook Air is $800 more than the one with the regular hard drive. SSD's a friggin' expensive. That said, $107 for a 32G SSD is a blowout bargain compared to what they HAVE been over the years... -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Solid State Laptop Drives
Hi Interesting, would you like to elaborate a little. It sounds a nice little project. Simon --- http://www.simonroyal.co.uk - Mac news, reviews, guides, upgrades, hacks and more... - http://www.nmug.org.uk - webmaster for Norwich Mac User Group - The box said requires Windows XP or better, so I bought an Apple Mac. On Sep 5 2008, dc wrote: Just for fun I put a SSHD in my PowerBook 5200cs. I used a SanDisk memory card in the lower pc slot, formatted it using Drive Setup, and copied the OS 9.1 system onto it. It boots and runs perfectly, no noise, no heat, low power consumption, only cost $10. Now I'm wondering if one of these would work in a G4's Airport slot? On Sep 4, 5:29 pm, Bruce Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 4, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Simon Royal wrote: Bruce Thanks for that. They are very expensive. £60 for a 32GB drive, when you pick up an IDE drive for under £10 is a big difference. Simon Yeah, that's why the SSD based MacBook Air is $800 more than the one with the regular hard drive. SSD's a friggin' expensive. That said, $107 for a 32G SSD is a blowout bargain compared to what they HAVE been over the years... -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Solid State Laptop Drives
On Sep 5, 2008, at 5:09 AM, dc wrote: Just for fun I put a SSHD in my PowerBook 5200cs. I used a SanDisk memory card in the lower pc slot, formatted it using Drive Setup, and copied the OS 9.1 system onto it. It boots and runs perfectly, no noise, no heat, low power consumption, only cost $10. Now I'm wondering if one of these would work in a G4's Airport slot? Nope. What WOULD work is a CF to 2.5 IDE adapter like this http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad44midecf.asp plugged into the HDD adapter. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Solid State Laptop Drives
Here's where I got the idea: http://www.alksoft.com/5300_FAQ/FAQ_2.7.php#2713 The SanDisk card is seens as an ATA hard drive. Formatting it, installing OS 9, and booting from it are all done just the same way you would handle any second ATA drive. I did try it in a G4 tower a few minutes ago but it is not seen at all from the airport slot. It thought I remembered reading somewhere that the Apple Airport slots were different from standard PC cardbus slots. Too bad, it means the ATA or SATA adapter will be needed to make SSHDs run in New World Macs. On Sep 5, 9:11 am, Simon Royal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting, would you like to elaborate a little. It sounds a nice little project. On Sep 5 2008, dc wrote: Just for fun I put a SSHD in my PowerBook 5200cs. I used a SanDisk memory card in the lower pc slot, formatted it using Drive Setup, and copied the OS 9.1 system onto it. It boots and runs perfectly, no noise, no heat, low power consumption, only cost $10. Now I'm wondering if one of these would work in a G4's Airport slot? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Solid State Laptop Drives
DC I had a look at the website, but it doesn't mention any particular brand of card. Will any PCMCIA ATA flash card work or only specific 'mac compatible ones'. I found one on eBay but it was only 220MB http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/220MB-PCMCIA-ATA-Flash-card-for-HP-200LX-Palmtop-PC_W0QQitemZ320292895286QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320292895286_trkparms=72%3A12|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 If I do get one, does it technically add a second hard drive? I could just format it to HFS+ and my PowerBook/OSX would pick it up as a second drive? Are there any write limitations to them? Simon --- http://www.simonroyal.co.uk - Mac news, reviews, guides, upgrades, hacks and more... - http://www.nmug.org.uk - webmaster for Norwich Mac User Group - The box said requires Windows XP or better, so I bought an Apple Mac. On Sep 5 2008, dc wrote: Here's where I got the idea: http://www.alksoft.com/5300_FAQ/FAQ_2.7.php#2713 The SanDisk card is seens as an ATA hard drive. Formatting it, installing OS 9, and booting from it are all done just the same way you would handle any second ATA drive. I did try it in a G4 tower a few minutes ago but it is not seen at all from the airport slot. It thought I remembered reading somewhere that the Apple Airport slots were different from standard PC cardbus slots. Too bad, it means the ATA or SATA adapter will be needed to make SSHDs run in New World Macs. On Sep 5, 9:11 am, Simon Royal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting, would you like to elaborate a little. It sounds a nice little project. On Sep 5 2008, dc wrote: Just for fun I put a SSHD in my PowerBook 5200cs. I used a SanDisk memory card in the lower pc slot, formatted it using Drive Setup, and copied the OS 9.1 system onto it. It boots and runs perfectly, no noise, no heat, low power consumption, only cost $10. Now I'm wondering if one of these would work in a G4's Airport slot? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
