Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind.
Hi Ken, When you say, a c64, was that the Commodore 64? I heard that the Commodore 64 had a built in synthesizer. I was given a program named Sams for the Atari 800 XL that would talk. It was not a screen reader, but would say what ever you typed in. It would even make the sound of any thing that you typed in. Kind of wish that sapi5 would still do that. grin BTW the Atari 800 XL was out at the same time as the Commodore 64 and had the same amount of ram etc. At the time I was not happy going from the Atari 800 XL to an IBM PC because the Atari 800 XL had four sound channels with effects and the PC only had one. Just didn't seem to be the way to go for creating games with cool sounds. BFN Jim The command prompt is our friend. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] A dark room, alternative ending and developer thoughts
Hi Dark, Although I haven't completed the game yet, I have really enjoyed playing it and once completed will definitely go online and rate the game. Thanks for the info about the alternate ending, I wouldn't have thought of trying that otherwise but look forward to giving that a go. Did you ever work out if stoking the fire in the main room played any part in the game? I've tried keeping it stoked and leaving it to die but it doesn't seem to change anything either way Paul -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 07 January 2014 19:36 To: Gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] A dark room, alternative ending and developer thoughts I sent a mail to the developer of A dark room, to firstly say I liked the game and particularly the access, and to ask about possible expantions or future plans. He (I believe the name Amir is a man's name), said that he didn't plan to expand the game since he felt the current length was as he wanted. however he is thinking of more games, possibly even aprequal, though he'd appreciate people to give the game good reviews and publicity. One thing he did tell me though which I am trying now, is that the game has an alternative ending, which is tantamount to a different play mode. to get it, you need to complete the game without building a singlehut! that's right, no slaves at all! this obviously means you need to explore and battle for all your materials, which changes gameplay around. The only annoying part is that to unlock the first exploration stage you actually need to build traps, which is a rather long process just by gathering 20 wood a pop, (nobody said this was an easy mode). I'm trying it now, just because I did rather enjoy this game, and I can see the alternate ending being quite a challenge to get since it needs far more exploring. The developer did state he's looking for 5 star reviews, so if people like the game perhaps they can contribute, to encourage the developer to do more in the same style, or perhaps even something more ambicious next time, (last I checked you needed facebook to write a review so annoyingly I couldn't, but when I am back at my flat with my bluetooth keyboard I'll try again). Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind.
Shaun, Minecraft is actually an excellent game, and the music and sounds make sense if you have vision and can see the graphics. However, it's not a game that the blind can effectively play, and it's not a game that can be made accessible - the graphics are what make it awesome. Being able to see in the distance and maybe pick out a weird configuration of blocks that might be a buried castle, being able to build structures that you can look at, making some goofy monument that spells out your mom's name in block letters - those are the things you do with your time there. It's not a regular game with quests and an end. It's more like a giant sandbox for people to find and build gigantic 3d objects, often in complete silence. -dentin Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 7:57 PM, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: Well I played minecraft with my cousin on his xbox 360. Firstly the music is utter crap. It may have improved in the pc version but it made my ears want to drop off after just a minute of listening. The sound fx sounded like they were coming out of a crappy sound box kids use. Now I am not saying sound boxes are crap I have 2 of them but I wouldn't concidder them worthy of playing games with. There is supposed to be more sounds that are better. But unless minecraft was made tesxt based or something I think I'd get bored after 5 minutes of play, I quit using it. At 04:17 PM 1/7/2014, you wrote: Hi listers Minecraft itself was quite cheap, considering the price of 15 euros when I purchased it. But as those guys are actually pushing the limits of Java, the humble talking about accessibility of mine fell on deaf ears, but so long it's ok, my relatives are playing under my account and enjoying it immensely. Minecraft as a matter of fact doesn't even have a ton of sounds attached to it, if not talking about mods. The only thing that needs to be realised here is that I think we are coming to the point where people are not afraid any more having a 100x100 map layed out before them and navigating it if sufficient data is provided. David Greenwood with his T.O.T. managed to make a small incursion into the land of such big maps and I hope that when T.O.T. gets updated it gets much more into it. But this is generally more to speaking about the strategy games. Was there anything so difficult about mortal kombat? No. The answer is simple, the playroom is small, so moving is limited, but what really gave the game it's replayability was the intelligent AI and the fact that you needed to act fast as hell, thereby producing huge amounts of adrenaline. Mortal kombat was easily beatable by anyone without sight. Now coming to the new mortal kombats on consoles or the last one on pc, than the story modes and such puzzles would need some tweaks for those who can't see, but it's all a question of making it. At this point I would think it could be easier to program a game similar to minecraft or civilisation, because before civ4, even they didn't make heavy use of sounds and background music. Thousand thanks for reading with kind regards Dengo Jürgen --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Japanese Audio Games?
Hi, all, I’m intrigued by these much-discussed Japanese audio games. Are they Windows only? I have a Mac. Do they run on IoS? Where can I find more info about them? thanks, teresa On the other hand, there are different fingers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind.
Hi jim. That reminds me of the old Amigar workbench synthesisor. Again it wasn't a screen reader but could read out what you typed, and also be recorded if you were programming for the Amigar and ddn't want to use a full size sound sample which obvious took up lots of memory at the time. Workbench sounds pretty dire compared to sapi, and I never actually used it to do any serious computer things myself me being about 8-11 when we had the Amigar and never having used a propper computer, but I do remember playing some public domain games that used the synth in some fun ways. There was a port of the old (and very difficult), platformer hunchback which had a sampled version of the music with Workbench wrapping quasy modo is a nice man, quasy modo is a nice man which was funny, (it also had lots of amusing game text before levels too). Probably the best use I saw of workbench was in a public domain game called war. This was a mix of stratogy and action. So you would have a map with planets to move to, resources to build fleets, research etc, however whenever you got a battle you'd have to physically fight it in a 2D spaceship game style. Actually thinking about it it would make a pretty awsome audio game :D. The thing I remember best is that the amigar workbench voice was used to play the evil aliens, the Zargans who were fighting against the player controled vaigans, and so when it was your turn to place fleets or alocate resources it'd say things like try your best hu mon (and yes, it did say Hu mon well before Quark in ds9), or over to you,embryo head the best was when you lost battles however as the voice would make comments like the Vaigan fleet has been destroyed, I am so sad I think I will commit suicide or the vaigan fleet has been destroyed, ha ha ha or even the vaigan fleet has been destroyed, I think your joystic is made of concrete What was so funny about these is they were all in a dead flat, very robotic monotone, which naturally made them very hilarious to hear. My brother also claimed that if you destroyed enough enemy fleets it'd say the zargan fleet has been destroyed you bastard but I never heard this myself. Very much a case though of a bad synth actually being hilarious in the way it contributed to the game. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Japanese Audio Games?
Windows only I'm afraid. Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering? -Original Message- From: Teresa Cochran Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 9:36 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Japanese Audio Games? Hi, all, I’m intrigued by these much-discussed Japanese audio games. Are they Windows only? I have a Mac. Do they run on IoS? Where can I find more info about them? thanks, teresa On the other hand, there are different fingers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A dark room, alternative ending and developer thoughts
Hi Paul. I don't think the fire has any more affect than atmosphere after it's triggered the first few encounters with the builder and unlocked the silent forest, at least I've had nothing dire happen with it going out. I do keep it stoked though for atmosphere if nothing else. I'm well in to the alternate mode now. it was tough to get going, since though the trading post got unlocked when I had 15 traps and I bought the compass the dusty path didn't appear, but when I mentioned this to the developer he advised me to turn the ap off and on again with the ap switcher which fixed it. I actually like the alternate mode in a lot of ways, since it makes loot really important, and gives you a good reason to take back even the firs and such you get from beasts (since you really need to work at exchanging them with the merchant for stuff), and also it --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A dark room, alternative ending and developer thoughts
Oopse sorry, sent the other mail by mistake (hand slip). As I was saying I really like the alternate mode, it really makes the game strategic and the exploration matter since you can't just expect to wait and have your slaves build you everything. The developer also asked me to publicize the alternate ending, which is also why I'm writing to the list. While he's said he prefers to keep the game at the length and pace it is and so doesn't plan to add any extra content such as extra weapons etc, he is thinking of more games, that's again why wratings would be good. I'll see if I can do a review tomorrow when I get back to my flat and my wireless keyboard, provided you don't still need face book for them (one reason I've never rating king of dragon pass or Solara). Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Paul Lemm paul.l...@sky.com To: Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 3:55 PM Subject: [Audyssey] A dark room, alternative ending and developer thoughts Hi Dark, Although I haven't completed the game yet, I have really enjoyed playing it and once completed will definitely go online and rate the game. Thanks for the info about the alternate ending, I wouldn't have thought of trying that otherwise but look forward to giving that a go. Did you ever work out if stoking the fire in the main room played any part in the game? I've tried keeping it stoked and leaving it to die but it doesn't seem to change anything either way Paul -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 07 January 2014 19:36 To: Gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] A dark room, alternative ending and developer thoughts I sent a mail to the developer of A dark room, to firstly say I liked the game and particularly the access, and to ask about possible expantions or future plans. He (I believe the name Amir is a man's name), said that he didn't plan to expand the game since he felt the current length was as he wanted. however he is thinking of more games, possibly even aprequal, though he'd appreciate people to give the game good reviews and publicity. One thing he did tell me though which I am trying now, is that the game has an alternative ending, which is tantamount to a different play mode. to get it, you need to complete the game without building a singlehut! that's right, no slaves at all! this obviously means you need to explore and battle for all your materials, which changes gameplay around. The only annoying part is that to unlock the first exploration stage you actually need to build traps, which is a rather long process just by gathering 20 wood a pop, (nobody said this was an easy mode). I'm trying it now, just because I did rather enjoy this game, and I can see the alternate ending being quite a challenge to get since it needs far more exploring. The developer did state he's looking for 5 star reviews, so if people like the game perhaps they can contribute, to encourage the developer to do more in the same style, or perhaps even something more ambicious next time, (last I checked you needed facebook to write a review so annoyingly I couldn't, but when I am back at my flat with my bluetooth keyboard I'll try again). Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind.
Hi guys. First of all, there's a sort of minimalist trend in the sighted gaming community. There're a lot of fake 8-bit offerings and offerings with minimal sound and graphics, primarily because independent developers and very small studios are really driving the community at this point. Minecraft was developed by, I think, five guys or so. It's made them millionaires many times over, and frankly I don't like the concept. I rather like Terraria, and I wish more people played it. It's different from Minecraft, the music and feeling of the game are different, the mechanics are different. Will we ever be able to play this precise kind of game? No. There're too many chances of missing something important, but there are other and varied ways to make the same thing work.Soundscaping, terrain blocks making different sounds, adaptive music, etc. If someone wanted me to brainstorm for them on how to make a game like Terraria work for the blind, I will happily do so. I don't have the coding skills to actually make it work (my best and only computer game to date is a crappy port of Lunar Lander I put together in a C-Sharp class). I have the knowledge of what is possible to code and a vague idea of how to do it though, so I probably wouldn't be asking for anything too radical. I'm eager for this style of game, among others. I've talked to a couple of developers privately about them, but nothing has panned out. I wish someone would play to my strengths and recruit me for ideas, story, and a bit of pseudocode. The offer is open. On 1/8/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi jim. That reminds me of the old Amigar workbench synthesisor. Again it wasn't a screen reader but could read out what you typed, and also be recorded if you were programming for the Amigar and ddn't want to use a full size sound sample which obvious took up lots of memory at the time. Workbench sounds pretty dire compared to sapi, and I never actually used it to do any serious computer things myself me being about 8-11 when we had the Amigar and never having used a propper computer, but I do remember playing some public domain games that used the synth in some fun ways. There was a port of the old (and very difficult), platformer hunchback which had a sampled version of the music with Workbench wrapping quasy modo is a nice man, quasy modo is a nice man which was funny, (it also had lots of amusing game text before levels too). Probably the best use I saw of workbench was in a public domain game called war. This was a mix of stratogy and action. So you would have a map with planets to move to, resources to build fleets, research etc, however whenever you got a battle you'd have to physically fight it in a 2D spaceship game style. Actually thinking about it it would make a pretty awsome audio game :D. The thing I remember best is that the amigar workbench voice was used to play the evil aliens, the Zargans who were fighting against the player controled vaigans, and so when it was your turn to place fleets or alocate resources it'd say things like try your best hu mon (and yes, it did say Hu mon well before Quark in ds9), or over to you,embryo head the best was when you lost battles however as the voice would make comments like the Vaigan fleet has been destroyed, I am so sad I think I will commit suicide or the vaigan fleet has been destroyed, ha ha ha or even the vaigan fleet has been destroyed, I think your joystic is made of concrete What was so funny about these is they were all in a dead flat, very robotic monotone, which naturally made them very hilarious to hear. My brother also claimed that if you destroyed enough enemy fleets it'd say the zargan fleet has been destroyed you bastard but I never heard this myself. Very much a case though of a bad synth actually being hilarious in the way it contributed to the game. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Signed: Dakotah Rickard --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MindCraft for the blind.
hi. well put. my girlfriend plays minecraft all the time, and yes, the sounds could be better. but they aren't the point of the game. lol. many sighted games have horrible sounds. because, to put it quite simply, they don't care about sounds much. it's only in expensive, highly complex and emersive games, where the sounds are very important too. Dallas On 9 Jan 2014, at 2:27, Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com wrote: Shaun, Minecraft is actually an excellent game, and the music and sounds make sense if you have vision and can see the graphics. However, it's not a game that the blind can effectively play, and it's not a game that can be made accessible - the graphics are what make it awesome. Being able to see in the distance and maybe pick out a weird configuration of blocks that might be a buried castle, being able to build structures that you can look at, making some goofy monument that spells out your mom's name in block letters - those are the things you do with your time there. It's not a regular game with quests and an end. It's more like a giant sandbox for people to find and build gigantic 3d objects, often in complete silence. -dentin Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 7:57 PM, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: Well I played minecraft with my cousin on his xbox 360. Firstly the music is utter crap. It may have improved in the pc version but it made my ears want to drop off after just a minute of listening. The sound fx sounded like they were coming out of a crappy sound box kids use. Now I am not saying sound boxes are crap I have 2 of them but I wouldn't concidder them worthy of playing games with. There is supposed to be more sounds that are better. But unless minecraft was made tesxt based or something I think I'd get bored after 5 minutes of play, I quit using it. At 04:17 PM 1/7/2014, you wrote: Hi listers Minecraft itself was quite cheap, considering the price of 15 euros when I purchased it. But as those guys are actually pushing the limits of Java, the humble talking about accessibility of mine fell on deaf ears, but so long it's ok, my relatives are playing under my account and enjoying it immensely. Minecraft as a matter of fact doesn't even have a ton of sounds attached to it, if not talking about mods. The only thing that needs to be realised here is that I think we are coming to the point where people are not afraid any more having a 100x100 map layed out before them and navigating it if sufficient data is provided. David Greenwood with his T.O.T. managed to make a small incursion into the land of such big maps and I hope that when T.O.T. gets updated it gets much more into it. But this is generally more to speaking about the strategy games. Was there anything so difficult about mortal kombat? No. The answer is simple, the playroom is small, so moving is limited, but what really gave the game it's replayability was the intelligent AI and the fact that you needed to act fast as hell, thereby producing huge amounts of adrenaline. Mortal kombat was easily beatable by anyone without sight. Now coming to the new mortal kombats on consoles or the last one on pc, than the story modes and such puzzles would need some tweaks for those who can't see, but it's all a question of making it. At this point I would think it could be easier to program a game similar to minecraft or civilisation, because before civ4, even they didn't make heavy use of sounds and background music. Thousand thanks for reading with kind regards Dengo Jürgen --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any
