Re: [Audyssey] captcha
This is exactly why it's such an issue charles. It's fairly clear that this is a lip service to access and wasn't ever tested as you describe, sort of like someone claiming their building is wheel chair accessible because it has a ramp that goes straight into the broom cupboard which is two foot wide and would never actually fit! a wheel chair, but hay, it's got a ramp! :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] captcha
hmph I don't think much about that allan. I have latest flash and the audio never played I even uninstalled flash and cleared out all data. nasa, youtube and several other flash based sites works so its not flash. I am on areyouahuman.com and they use something based on recapture. I helped test areyouahuman.com and its easy to setup. I don't brag about it but I am part of that company in a minor role. At 04:04 AM 4/12/2013, you wrote: Hi Folks, Captchas, in a word, suck. We all know that, but I get an email newsletter called flying blind, and in it is this one link concerning blind testers for audio captchas being developed. I thought it might be nice to be proactive and help out in this capacity. The link and brief description is below, which I copied and pasted from above mentioned newsletter. 2) Researchers are looking for blind users to test some audio CAPTCHA's they think will be both effective and accessible: https://secure-hamlet-3770.herokuapp.com/experiment/ The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] captcha
they wouldn't! I got in before their horrible capcha system became bad. yes its possible to complete a capcha crappy that it is. you just have to listen vary hard with headphones, the volume at max and concentrate hard. what I end up usually doing is record the capcha and then play the file back several times in winamp, filling it in that way. At 11:55 AM 4/12/2013, you wrote: I challenge any or all of them to turn their monitors off completely and see just how accessible their system is. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] captcha Don't count on google changing, because as far as they are concerned they already have a accessible capcha. The only way they will change is by the community coming together and proving them wrong. And you won't get help from any org on this either. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] captcha
I've challenged such claims. If the builder says that it is accessible, show me by using it as if you needed to have that accessibility. The management staff where I worked insisted that their software was accessible to people using screen readers. They wanted the blind people to speed up their voice rates to gather the info more quickly. So a tech put JAWS at the highest speech rate, turned off the monitor, and played a credit card number. He then asked managers to repeat what they heard. Not even the blind screen reader users could do it. Repeating it several times only wasted time. The speed was then brought down to a reasonable level, and we could hear and get it the first time it was announced. Managers still insisted that we crank JAWS up to increase productivity. This is corporate logic, which is an oxymoron. Just because there is a ramp, if it is too steep or narrow, and the entrance is not wide enough, it is not accessible. Same for computers and systems. If it is unusable, it is not accessible. With proper modification and use, it can be made accessible, increasing your number of customers. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] captcha This is exactly why it's such an issue charles. It's fairly clear that this is a lip service to access and wasn't ever tested as you describe, sort of like someone claiming their building is wheel chair accessible because it has a ramp that goes straight into the broom cupboard which is two foot wide and would never actually fit! a wheel chair, but hay, it's got a ramp! :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] captcha
In addition to AA, I also run the AA wiki and forums, and I've completely given up on capchas. They're really just ineffective, and even really hard ones still let through more spam accounts than I prefer. We use something a lot stronger. For forum registration, we currently only require a valid player name from Alter Aeon. This makes sense, as really only AA players should be using it. Simply requiring a valid player name, with no capitals, cuts out more spam than any capcha I've ever seen. That said, we still get maybe half a dozen spam registrations per year, when they happen to pick a valid player name out of the blue. For the wiki, we require both a valid player name and the email associated with that player account. For something so simple, it's vastly more effective: the only spam account we've ever seen on the wiki was caused by a bug in the email check. Unfortunately, this really doesn't help other services. AA effectively provides a 'whitelist' of allowed accounts, based on who has created a character - no spammer is going to bother creating an AA account just so they can spam the wiki (at least not yet.) But forums don't really have any way to do that, because you can't verify where new users came from. Facebook and other big sites have tried to set up authentication and login services for other people to use for this purpose, but unless everyone uses the same one, you're still missing out on people. In the future, I'll probably still use the same model, just because I can. I'll have easy, capcha free registration in a place that spammers simply won't bother to hit, then use that registration to allow access to other services. I don't know how that model could be effective for other blind services, but perhaps it's worth thinking about. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 9:35 AM, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: I've challenged such claims. If the builder says that it is accessible, show me by using it as if you needed to have that accessibility. The management staff where I worked insisted that their software was accessible to people using screen readers. They wanted the blind people to speed up their voice rates to gather the info more quickly. So a tech put JAWS at the highest speech rate, turned off the monitor, and played a credit card number. He then asked managers to repeat what they heard. Not even the blind screen reader users could do it. Repeating it several times only wasted time. The speed was then brought down to a reasonable level, and we could hear and get it the first time it was announced. Managers still insisted that we crank JAWS up to increase productivity. This is corporate logic, which is an oxymoron. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] captcha
that's rediculous. Your managers had a cheek there. Amanda -- From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 5:35 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] captcha I've challenged such claims. If the builder says that it is accessible, show me by using it as if you needed to have that accessibility. The management staff where I worked insisted that their software was accessible to people using screen readers. They wanted the blind people to speed up their voice rates to gather the info more quickly. So a tech put JAWS at the highest speech rate, turned off the monitor, and played a credit card number. He then asked managers to repeat what they heard. Not even the blind screen reader users could do it. Repeating it several times only wasted time. The speed was then brought down to a reasonable level, and we could hear and get it the first time it was announced. Managers still insisted that we crank JAWS up to increase productivity. This is corporate logic, which is an oxymoron. Just because there is a ramp, if it is too steep or narrow, and the entrance is not wide enough, it is not accessible. Same for computers and systems. If it is unusable, it is not accessible. With proper modification and use, it can be made accessible, increasing your number of customers. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] captcha This is exactly why it's such an issue charles. It's fairly clear that this is a lip service to access and wasn't ever tested as you describe, sort of like someone claiming their building is wheel chair accessible because it has a ramp that goes straight into the broom cupboard which is two foot wide and would never actually fit! a wheel chair, but hay, it's got a ramp! :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] captcha
Hi charlese. I fully agree, indeed my phd has a very similar discussion as part of my deffinition of accessibility, however frequently it's not possible to challenge such measures since, like google's captures they are simply handed down from on high by our mighty corporate or governmental masters, who have as much idea of practical access as a duck does of trade routes across the sahara. It's fine if you can A, challenge such judgements, and B, get the big whig's to listen, as indeed you did in your example with the management idiots, but more often than not that is simply not possible, look at the problems contacting capcom, nintendo or any other company about access measures, or Microsoft's very friendly post xp winows interface as a perfect example. This is another point I've put in my phd, that accessibility's affectivness is only rightly something that can be judged by the deisres of it's recipient, not by anyone else, however that's unfortunately not the way the world works. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] captcha
That's actually not a bad idea dennis. there used to be a universal forum registration system, whereby you could effectively create a username and account on a general server, and then use this to validate other methods (we had it on audigoames.net for a while), the problem was, other services didn't use it, making it a little pointless. Still, if google setup a similar universal account system requiring mail address, username and password which could be used on other sites rather the way googlecurrently farm their captcha service out to other sites, that would go a good way to creating a nicely accessible system, since if google! used it odds are other people would to. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] captcha In addition to AA, I also run the AA wiki and forums, and I've completely given up on capchas. They're really just ineffective, and even really hard ones still let through more spam accounts than I prefer. We use something a lot stronger. For forum registration, we currently only require a valid player name from Alter Aeon. This makes sense, as really only AA players should be using it. Simply requiring a valid player name, with no capitals, cuts out more spam than any capcha I've ever seen. That said, we still get maybe half a dozen spam registrations per year, when they happen to pick a valid player name out of the blue. For the wiki, we require both a valid player name and the email associated with that player account. For something so simple, it's vastly more effective: the only spam account we've ever seen on the wiki was caused by a bug in the email check. Unfortunately, this really doesn't help other services. AA effectively provides a 'whitelist' of allowed accounts, based on who has created a character - no spammer is going to bother creating an AA account just so they can spam the wiki (at least not yet.) But forums don't really have any way to do that, because you can't verify where new users came from. Facebook and other big sites have tried to set up authentication and login services for other people to use for this purpose, but unless everyone uses the same one, you're still missing out on people. In the future, I'll probably still use the same model, just because I can. I'll have easy, capcha free registration in a place that spammers simply won't bother to hit, then use that registration to allow access to other services. I don't know how that model could be effective for other blind services, but perhaps it's worth thinking about. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 9:35 AM, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: I've challenged such claims. If the builder says that it is accessible, show me by using it as if you needed to have that accessibility. The management staff where I worked insisted that their software was accessible to people using screen readers. They wanted the blind people to speed up their voice rates to gather the info more quickly. So a tech put JAWS at the highest speech rate, turned off the monitor, and played a credit card number. He then asked managers to repeat what they heard. Not even the blind screen reader users could do it. Repeating it several times only wasted time. The speed was then brought down to a reasonable level, and we could hear and get it the first time it was announced. Managers still insisted that we crank JAWS up to increase productivity. This is corporate logic, which is an oxymoron. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] captcha
Hi Folks, Captchas, in a word, suck. We all know that, but I get an email newsletter called flying blind, and in it is this one link concerning blind testers for audio captchas being developed. I thought it might be nice to be proactive and help out in this capacity. The link and brief description is below, which I copied and pasted from above mentioned newsletter. 2) Researchers are looking for blind users to test some audio CAPTCHA's they think will be both effective and accessible: https://secure-hamlet-3770.herokuapp.com/experiment/ The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] captcha
The sooner google scraps that horrible inaudible dying robot voice the better. At 02:04 AM 4/12/2013, you wrote: Hi Folks, Captchas, in a word, suck. We all know that, but I get an email newsletter called flying blind, and in it is this one link concerning blind testers for audio captchas being developed. I thought it might be nice to be proactive and help out in this capacity. The link and brief description is below, which I copied and pasted from above mentioned newsletter. 2) Researchers are looking for blind users to test some audio CAPTCHA's they think will be both effective and accessible: https://secure-hamlet-3770.herokuapp.com/experiment/ The truth will set you free Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] captcha
Don't count on google changing, because as far as they are concerned they already have a accessible capcha. The only way they will change is by the community coming together and proving them wrong. And you won't get help from any org on this either. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] captcha
I challenge any or all of them to turn their monitors off completely and see just how accessible their system is. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] captcha Don't count on google changing, because as far as they are concerned they already have a accessible capcha. The only way they will change is by the community coming together and proving them wrong. And you won't get help from any org on this either. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] captcha
I wouldn't count on it. LOL. That's probably even less likely than the average sighted schmoe playing and enjoying one of ou audio games. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Charles Rivard Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 5:55 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] captcha I challenge any or all of them to turn their monitors off completely and see just how accessible their system is. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] captcha Don't count on google changing, because as far as they are concerned they already have a accessible capcha. The only way they will change is by the community coming together and proving them wrong. And you won't get help from any org on this either. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
