Re: [Audyssey] Copyrights and Commercial Games.
Hi Ryan, Technically yes, but there are fair use exceptions that may protect you from a law suit. If you published your Super Mario as non-prophet, educational software, with disclaimers there is a very large chance someone like Nintendo would leave you alone. Usually most copyright infringement cases are solved with a cease and desist motion from the copyright holder's attorneys. If they get a cease and desist motion the court will order you to stop production, distribution of your game, etc. They could also take you to court for an injunction which is a court ruling ordering you to remove, destroy, or surrender any or all works you created using the copyright to the copyright holder. Here is an example of how an injunction might work. Let us say you write a blazing new Star Wars game involving Luke Skywalker, Mara Jade, Princess Leia, Han Solo, and the rest of your favorite Star Wars characters. Somehow Lucas Arts hears about it, and want to take action against you since you have esentually created a game only legally they were allowed to create, and they have exclusive rights to create Star Wars games where you don't. What can they really do? Well, first Lucas Arts would have to file a cease and desist motion with the court stating you have to stop production, distribution, etc of your game. At this point in the state of things there is a good chance the motion would be granted. Then, you will be given orders to remove the materials until it can be agreed to or settled in court. What can you do? Well, if a cease and desist motion is granted you can try and fight it using fair use provisions, or you can simply nigotiate with the copyright holders. Under the copyright laws you can write as many Star Wars stories, games, etc that you want as long as they are for your own personal use. When you redistribute them for public play or use then there is some chance someone like Lucas will step in and ask you to stop. Knowing this you might be able to agree to their demands, stop redistribution of your Star Wars game, and keep it for your own enjoyment. However, if you wish to fight it then we go to stage 2. In stage 2 Lucas Arts could legally ask for a hearing for an injunction against you in civil court. Lucas Arts attorneys would present to the judge their side of things, how you wrote the game, that you freely used copyrighted material, and try and present evidence how they are losing money or sales because of it. You and perhaps your attorney would try and counter their arguments by showing evidence that you complied with fair use provisions that your work was non-prophet, it was open source, that it was for an educational purpose, you did it to make game x accessible to the blind, whatever. Let us assume the worst case here. let us suppose the judge passes an injunction against you. Depending on the terms of the injunction you could be ordered to stop distribution of Star Wars related materials to the public, you may be ordered to destroy your game, or could be ordered to turn all source code over to Lucas Arts. If it was turned over to Lucas Arts they then could legally update your game and sell it to the public even though you were the guy who originally made it. Though, this latter possability is slim to none. Anyway, what can you do? Well, if you were of a mind to do so, had enough money, you could technically fight the case all the way to the supreme court. Since no blind gamer has that kind of money he/she could follow the terms of the injunction and keep the game for her or himself and play it secretly. Besides the injunction Lucas Arts could try and file a law suit against you. While it is not beyond possability it should be noted that law suits are rare in fan fiction type cases. One reason is it costs Lucas Arts quite a bit of money to take you to court, and they have to prove to the court that your actions hurt them financially. In fan fiction cases such as the one I am describing if you never sold any copies a judge could decide no financial damages were done, or fine you something like $200 for inocent copyright infringement. No serious money is to be made from a law suit like that. Now, if you were actually selling the game things would be different. If Lucas Arts took you to court and won then you would be probably ordered to make your sales records available to =the court, and Lucas Arts could sue up to the amount you earned off the game. If you earned $2000 then that is most likely the most they could earn in a law suit. The lawyers will take a big chunk of that and they still walk away with almost nothing to show for it. In my research copyright law is a very open ended subject. There is no universal list of do and do nots one can point to though there are standards that have been widely accepted by the court system. One is if you want to create some kind of fan fiction like a game, book, etc don't sell it. Second, always
Re: [Audyssey] Copyrights and Commercial Games.
Hi Ryan, Pretty much. If you change the names of characters, use generic characters, and remove the more copyright elements from a game company x can eat rice cakes. For example, on the USA Games list I stated if Phil removed the names for the gosts, ccat, and Dobbi and called them mail ghost, cat, Elf, etc J.K. Rowling could jump in the river, because you can't copyright generic things like Elves, cats, and ghosts if they are called that. You can however copyright an Elf named Dobbi if his character is substantially developed. Ryan Smith wrote: Hi, So according to my understanding, instead of let's say using a goomba as an enemy, I can call him let's say stompy, and Nintendo can eat rice cakes? lol -Ryan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Audyssey] Copyrights and Commercial Games.
Copyrights and Commercial Games by Thomas Ward March 14, 2008 When I first began writing my own accessible games in 2004 I had many dreams of creating games like Tomb Raider, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc and selling them. I honestly hadn't thought much about the copyright issues involved in making my own versions of Tomb Raider, Star wars Jedi Knight, or Star Trek Elite Force. All I knew is I wanted to create my own games, and do my best to clone the games I use to love to play. However, soon after completing my first game, Star Trek Final Conflict, I attempted to legally obtain the rights to publish, sell, and make games based on Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. As it turned out contacting the parent companies involved was a very difficult task. Even when I did make contact with the parent companies who owned the copyrights it was made very clear to me that if you don't have millions of dollars to license the copyrights, a team of lawyers working for you, and you aren't a major company you might as well forget it. People like Paramount, Lucas film, etc tend to only deal with major companies with money and legal power to license their trade marks for toys, games, and other products. So I began researching U.S. copyright laws to see if there were any legal way to get around paying millions of dollars to company x to use Lara Croft, Darth Vader, or the starship Enterprise in my next game title. Before we can actually talk about copyright law we need to first understand what can and can not be copyrighted by an individual or company. Under U.S. copyright law a copyright can only be granted if the copyright is an original work or creation, the copyright is unique, and is fixed in a medium such as a motion picture, audio recording, photograph, painting, book, etc. Certain elements of a work may not be copyrighted if it is not an original work, if the creation is common, or it is an idea. If that all sounds confusing here is some real world examples of what can and can not be copyrighted in a commercial game. Let us assume that you want to create a cops and robbers style game. Under U.S. copyright law you can not copyright generic game characters such as policemen, robbers, prostitutes. You also can not copyright everyday items such as police revolvers, police cars, police radios, etc. You can not copyright actual places such as New York, Washington DC, Boston, etc. Now, let us assume you name your detective Dick Tracey and the crime boss Big Boy Al Caprice. You decide you want your cops and robbers game to be set in Chicago. Now, do you have something you can copyright yet? Not exactly. Just because you have named your characters and set the story in Chicago doesn't make it an original work you can copyright. In order to turn your cops and robbers game into a copyrighted work you must create a unique story and profile for the characters that will qualify it as an original work. For example, in the chart below I will create a profile that will make my Dick Tracey character an original character. Name: Dick Tracey Age: 35 Height: 6 ft. Weight: 165 lb. Race: white Clothing: brown pants, trench coat, and hat Books: murder mysteries and true crime Music: opera Employment: Chicago police detective Girl friend: Tess Trueheart Home: Chicago Weapon: 357 Magnum At this point we can obtain a copyright and trade mark for Dick Tracey as we have created a unique identity for our game character. While individually none of the items in the profile are unique as a whole they create an established character. We now know that Dick Tracey wheres brown pants, trench coats, and hats. He carries a 357 Magnum, has a girl friend named Tess Trueheart, works for the Chicago police, is a detective, etc. If we come up with some photographs and images for Dick Tracey the game character for all intents and purposes is an original creation, and now falls under copyright protection as well as any supporting characters such as Al Caprice and Tess Trueheart. One of the most difficult questions I have had to research is once a character, story, game, song, etc has been copyrighted can I use it in my own games? Well, it is actually a difficult question to answer because current U.S. copyright law is not clear where copyright protection ends and fair use begins. There are, however, some general guidelines in the copyright laws on fair use that helps give us a clearer idea of what we can and can not do with accessible games based on movies, books, and commercial games that are copyrighted. Under current U.S. copyright law there are some provisions for fair use of copyrighted works including commercial games. A copyrighted work may be used for criticism, research, news, advertisement, non-prophet educational instruction, etc. In addition any copyrighted works used under the fair use provisions must come with a disclaimer or citation of the
Re: [Audyssey] Copyrights and Commercial Games.
So, let's say I wanted to take super mario brothers, port it to vb6, clearly state that Nintendo did all the ideas, and all I did was make it accessible, I could then be sued for copyright infringement? Thanks -Ryan Smith www.rsgames.co.nr --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Copyrights and Commercial Games.
Hi, So according to my understanding, instead of let's say using a goomba as an enemy, I can call him let's say stompy, and Nintendo can eat rice cakes? lol -Ryan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Copyrights and Commercial Games.
Unfortunately you're right on the money. Big name game companies aren't gonna care that you were making their products accessible to the blind. While i personally agree with the philosophy that if someone takes a mainstream game and accessibilizes it (note the preceeding is not actually a word), it's the original dev's own fault for not doing it in the first place, that doesn't change the fact that they have the power, and they're all too happy to use it, to make our lives miserable. I wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of Lucas Arts from all I've heard about them. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Ryan Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Copyrights and Commercial Games. So, let's say I wanted to take super mario brothers, port it to vb6, clearly state that Nintendo did all the ideas, and all I did was make it accessible, I could then be sued for copyright infringement? Thanks -Ryan Smith www.rsgames.co.nr --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
If they come after you, no offense but you probablywont be making games. Quite apart from the fact that they'd bleed you dry, you'd be so busy dealing with the lawsut you'd have no time for development. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights hi thomas, When I learn visual basic, probably when i go back to college, and if I make games and use copyrighted material: I will just use the sounds and if they come after me they come after me, if not, oh well. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Bryan, That is exactly the issue I am facing. If I release my Tomb Raider game and Star Wars games as fan fiction, make them open source, etc it might be enough to cover my butt legally since I did not technically make any money off the games. However, that still breaks the part of the end user license agreement that states that all sounds, music, pictures, etc are for my soul use, and may not be transmitted, sublicenced, etc without the expressed permission of the copyright holder. If so that really screws me if I want to even offer a free version of the game. What all this really boils down to is if I really want to work with copyrighted materials I will have to retain an attorney to give me the necesary legal view with copyrights to find out exactly what I can and can not do. Perhaps an attorney might be able to get some permission from the various licensing offices for the copyright holders to do what I want to do legally. Generally, speaking my previous experience with companies is they won't listen to you as an individual, but they will listen to your attorney if they make the request through more legal channels. However, obtaining an attorney to do this is not exactly a cheap prospect. Bryan wrote: That probably wouldn't be smart. At least if he released it as fanfiction and freeware, Lucas Arts wouldn't have any leg to stand on because it was in the public domain. But if he sold it...well you get the idea. It wouldn't be pretty. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1254 - Release Date: 1/31/2008 8:30 PM --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
Hi Josh, All I can say is best of luck. I personally don't think using copyrighted material without the copyright holders permission is a good idea, but I'm not going to argue with someone if they want to try it and see how it goes. I did it with STFC and everything went well, but I don't want to press my luck by making too many games using copyrighted material. josh wrote: hi thomas, When I learn visual basic, probably when i go back to college, and if I make games and use copyrighted material: I will just use the sounds and if they come after me they come after me, if not, oh well. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
Hi Josh, Yes, but donations never return the same kind of income that selling a product does. Personally, i think my plan for Tomb Hunter is the right way to do it. I am going to officially release the game with a different character, music, and effects but offer say a download with official TR theme stuff to it under a separate license agreement. What is wrong with that approach? If you download the Tomb Raider theme sound pack for Tomb Hunter, agree to the terms of license, and install it what is the difference? By legally promoting the same type of game with none of the official characters and sound attached I can easily clame my game is an original work and get my own copyright for it and sell it. However, for those die-hards that simply must have the authentic Tomb Raider theme to the game a seperate sound update with the official Edos and Core Design terms of license attached should hopefully allow me to have my cake and eat it too. josh wrote: you could encourage people to donate money. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
I personally agree. I'd rather be safe than sorry. If everyone cared and nobody cried If everyone loved and nobody lied If everyone shared and swallowed their pride Then we'd see the day when nobody died. Nickelback, If Everyone Cared - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Josh, All I can say is best of luck. I personally don't think using copyrighted material without the copyright holders permission is a good idea, but I'm not going to argue with someone if they want to try it and see how it goes. I did it with STFC and everything went well, but I don't want to press my luck by making too many games using copyrighted material. josh wrote: hi thomas, When I learn visual basic, probably when i go back to college, and if I make games and use copyrighted material: I will just use the sounds and if they come after me they come after me, if not, oh well. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
Rofl. I know. rofl On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:04:30 -0700, Bryan wrote: I personally agree. I'd rather be safe than sorry. If everyone cared and nobody cried If everyone loved and nobody lied If everyone shared and swallowed their pride Then we'd see the day when nobody died. Nickelback, If Everyone Cared - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Josh, All I can say is best of luck. I personally don't think using copyrighted material without the copyright holders permission is a good idea, but I'm not going to argue with someone if they want to try it and see how it goes. I did it with STFC and everything went well, but I don't want to press my luck by making too many games using copyrighted material. josh wrote: hi thomas, When I learn visual basic, probably when i go back to college, and if I make games and use copyrighted material: I will just use the sounds and if they come after me they come after me, if not, oh well. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
hey that sounds excellent. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Josh, Yes, but donations never return the same kind of income that selling a product does. Personally, i think my plan for Tomb Hunter is the right way to do it. I am going to officially release the game with a different character, music, and effects but offer say a download with official TR theme stuff to it under a separate license agreement. What is wrong with that approach? If you download the Tomb Raider theme sound pack for Tomb Hunter, agree to the terms of license, and install it what is the difference? By legally promoting the same type of game with none of the official characters and sound attached I can easily clame my game is an original work and get my own copyright for it and sell it. However, for those die-hards that simply must have the authentic Tomb Raider theme to the game a seperate sound update with the official Edos and Core Design terms of license attached should hopefully allow me to have my cake and eat it too. josh wrote: you could encourage people to donate money. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1255 - Release Date: 2/1/2008 9:59 AM --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
so thomas could still sell his starwars game? - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights If any developers have thoughts of using any copyrighted material and making a profit from it, I highly suggest you set up a LLC for your company. This stands for limited liability company, and basically protects the owner from lawsuits going after their personal property for any claims. Though I don't intend on pushing copyright stuff with blind adrenaline, this protects me if some bozo wants to claim my software screwed up his computer or something similarly frivilous. A good lawyer can do this for you for around $100, plus you will need a checking account for the company for tax purposes. Having seen some small businesses get burned, I highly recommend this setup for any small game developers. Later, Che - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights In which case, he'd! be! busted! Very, very bad idea. --- If you don't stand behind our troops, please, feel free ... to stand in front of them! - Original Message - From: josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi thomas, if i were you, I would make the game, and then if they ask you to destroy it, say, well you see, I'd really like to, but the game has already been sold to blind people all over the world including in the middle eastern countries. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Bryan, Oh, yeah. Lucas Arts is very protective of their Star Wars copyrights. Have you read the Star Wars terms of use lately? If not here is a small quote from the Star Wars terms of use snipped from their license agreement. Quote STAR WARS; STAR WARS : EPISODE I THE PHANTOM MENACE; STAR WARS: EPISODE II ATTACK OF THE CLONES; STAR WARS : EPISODE III REVENGE OF THE SITH; STAR WARS : EPISODE IV A NEW HOPE; STAR WARS: EPISODE V THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK; STAR WARS : EPISODE VI RETURN OF THE JEDI (collectively referred to herein as the “ Star Wars Pictures”) and all other Lucasfilm productions, and all logos, characters, artwork, stories, information, names, software, and other elements associated thereto are the sole and exclusive property of Lucasfilm Ltd.. Any use of any of the materials on this Site other than for private, non-commercial viewing purposes is strictly prohibited. The sale, auction, lease, loan, gift, trade or barter, or use of any of the Star Wars materials contained herein, for any other purpose except as expressly permitted pursuant to these Terms of Use, in any form, media or technology now known or hereafter developed, including the use of any of the aforementioned materials on any other Web site or networked computer environment, without a prior written consent from Lucas, is expressly prohibited. Except as expressly provided for under the Terms of Use, the creation of derivative works based on the materials contained herein is expressly prohibited. You may download one copy of the materials on any single computer for your personal, non-commercial home use only, provided you keep intact all copyright and other proprietary notices. Modification of the materials or use of the materials for any other purpose is a violation of Lucas’s copyright and other proprietary rights. End quote That is only part of the license agreement, and what I did show is very strongly worded. I read later on in the agreement that any ideas, emails, stories, pictures, etc you create with Star Wars instantly becomes the property of Lucas Film and Lucas Arts no questions asked. So even if I wrote such a game according to the terms of use section of the license agreement they have the right to take the game away, destroy it, or whatever they want to do with it. Kind of hard to fight a license agreement like that in court blind or not. While some developer can sit around saying they won't bother me because I am blind that is being a bit unrealistic. They might not, but then again they have every legal right to do so. Their license agreement sounds like they are pretty serious and they don't take very kindly to any copyright violation in any way shape or form. Even though they may be in the wrong for not offering an accessible SW game for us. Bryan wrote: Especially since the folks at Lucas Arts in particular seem to be such jerks. I've heard a lot of things about them, that they've been known to attack fan sites for even inadvertently violating a copyright. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. --- Gamers mailing
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
it just means that if thomas is sued, he will just be sued for company property instead of personal property. - Original Message - From: josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:40 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights so thomas could still sell his starwars game? - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights If any developers have thoughts of using any copyrighted material and making a profit from it, I highly suggest you set up a LLC for your company. This stands for limited liability company, and basically protects the owner from lawsuits going after their personal property for any claims. Though I don't intend on pushing copyright stuff with blind adrenaline, this protects me if some bozo wants to claim my software screwed up his computer or something similarly frivilous. A good lawyer can do this for you for around $100, plus you will need a checking account for the company for tax purposes. Having seen some small businesses get burned, I highly recommend this setup for any small game developers. Later, Che - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights In which case, he'd! be! busted! Very, very bad idea. --- If you don't stand behind our troops, please, feel free ... to stand in front of them! - Original Message - From: josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi thomas, if i were you, I would make the game, and then if they ask you to destroy it, say, well you see, I'd really like to, but the game has already been sold to blind people all over the world including in the middle eastern countries. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Bryan, Oh, yeah. Lucas Arts is very protective of their Star Wars copyrights. Have you read the Star Wars terms of use lately? If not here is a small quote from the Star Wars terms of use snipped from their license agreement. Quote STAR WARS; STAR WARS : EPISODE I THE PHANTOM MENACE; STAR WARS: EPISODE II ATTACK OF THE CLONES; STAR WARS : EPISODE III REVENGE OF THE SITH; STAR WARS : EPISODE IV A NEW HOPE; STAR WARS: EPISODE V THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK; STAR WARS : EPISODE VI RETURN OF THE JEDI (collectively referred to herein as the “ Star Wars Pictures”) and all other Lucasfilm productions, and all logos, characters, artwork, stories, information, names, software, and other elements associated thereto are the sole and exclusive property of Lucasfilm Ltd.. Any use of any of the materials on this Site other than for private, non-commercial viewing purposes is strictly prohibited. The sale, auction, lease, loan, gift, trade or barter, or use of any of the Star Wars materials contained herein, for any other purpose except as expressly permitted pursuant to these Terms of Use, in any form, media or technology now known or hereafter developed, including the use of any of the aforementioned materials on any other Web site or networked computer environment, without a prior written consent from Lucas, is expressly prohibited. Except as expressly provided for under the Terms of Use, the creation of derivative works based on the materials contained herein is expressly prohibited. You may download one copy of the materials on any single computer for your personal, non-commercial home use only, provided you keep intact all copyright and other proprietary notices. Modification of the materials or use of the materials for any other purpose is a violation of Lucas’s copyright and other proprietary rights. End quote That is only part of the license agreement, and what I did show is very strongly worded. I read later on in the agreement that any ideas, emails, stories, pictures, etc you create with Star Wars instantly becomes the property of Lucas Film and Lucas Arts no questions asked. So even if I wrote such a game according to the terms of use section of the license agreement they have the right to take the game away, destroy it, or whatever they want to do with it. Kind of hard to fight a license agreement like that in court blind or not. While some developer can sit around saying they won't bother me because I am blind that is being a bit unrealistic. They might not, but then again they have every legal right to do so. Their license agreement sounds like they are pretty serious and they don't take very kindly to any copyright violation in any way shape or form. Even though they may be in the wrong for not offering an accessible SW game
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
Hi Bryan, That is exactly the issue I am facing. If I release my Tomb Raider game and Star Wars games as fan fiction, make them open source, etc it might be enough to cover my butt legally since I did not technically make any money off the games. However, that still breaks the part of the end user license agreement that states that all sounds, music, pictures, etc are for my soul use, and may not be transmitted, sublicenced, etc without the expressed permission of the copyright holder. If so that really screws me if I want to even offer a free version of the game. What all this really boils down to is if I really want to work with copyrighted materials I will have to retain an attorney to give me the necesary legal view with copyrights to find out exactly what I can and can not do. Perhaps an attorney might be able to get some permission from the various licensing offices for the copyright holders to do what I want to do legally. Generally, speaking my previous experience with companies is they won't listen to you as an individual, but they will listen to your attorney if they make the request through more legal channels. However, obtaining an attorney to do this is not exactly a cheap prospect. Bryan wrote: That probably wouldn't be smart. At least if he released it as fanfiction and freeware, Lucas Arts wouldn't have any leg to stand on because it was in the public domain. But if he sold it...well you get the idea. It wouldn't be pretty. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
Hi Josh, Unfortunately, that kind of thinking doesn't do anyone any good. That won't stop them for suing for damages if they decided to take it to that extreme. Besides which if they get a court order to destroy my materials and I fail to comply with that court order that could be seenas contempt of court. About the only way I know of to protect myself from that type of situation would either clone the software without using trade marks or design all of my copyrighted games under a open source license agreement. If I go with an open source license agreement that puts all of my hard work in the public domain with no financial backing for the product. Yeah, you guys get a free game, but what money or financial gain do I get out of it? josh wrote: Hi thomas, if i were you, I would make the game, and then if they ask you to destroy it, say, well you see, I'd really like to, but the game has already been sold to blind people all over the world including in the middle eastern countries. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
Hi, Well, as i pointed out so many times on this list alone it goes beyond greed or a lack of desire to offer accessible games for us. It is simply we don't have the numbers to prove we actually matter. They aren't going to spend x amount of time to add accessibility for game x for just $2000, $5000, or $1. Their least paid game developer makes at a minimum 5 or 6 times that amount per year. Making accessible games for blind people is something that has to pay off for them, or they simply will not do it. Let us assume Lucas Arts or someone takes the time to make one of there new games fully accessible. If there marketing research returns no increase in sales, or they only pull in 2000 blinks with their new game they are going to state it was a failior and not a success, because success for these people is several thousand blind gamers. Do you guys see the problem? However, on the other hand they are not exactly going to hand the job over to someone else for free. They are in the business of making money, licensing their product, and legally have the power of saying who can do what. Bryan wrote: Most mainstream devs are. True, Nintendo did seem very open to the idea of blind accessible games when I spoke to them a while back, but I still wouldn't fancy trying to copy one of their titles without perrmission. Dragon Slayer Games is certainly pushing their luck with their Mario game. Admittedly it's probably going to be free, but still. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned that Mario game, despite their claim, isn't really in the true Mario spirit, even if it features music and sounds from the game. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights yes true. Lucas arts is just greedy greedy greedy that's all. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
It's funny, but I'm having to do something similar in my life. You'll forgive me for straying from the topic of games briefly I hope, but I'm having some difficulty with the housing authority letting me get a guide dog. Right now they seem to think they can count the service animal as a pet, so they're telling me that if I were to get a guide dog and later want a pet I'd have to get rid of my guide dog. But it goes back to what you said about companies not listening to you as an individual, but if you have some sort of atourney or other legal personality you at least stand a chance. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Bryan, That is exactly the issue I am facing. If I release my Tomb Raider game and Star Wars games as fan fiction, make them open source, etc it might be enough to cover my butt legally since I did not technically make any money off the games. However, that still breaks the part of the end user license agreement that states that all sounds, music, pictures, etc are for my soul use, and may not be transmitted, sublicenced, etc without the expressed permission of the copyright holder. If so that really screws me if I want to even offer a free version of the game. What all this really boils down to is if I really want to work with copyrighted materials I will have to retain an attorney to give me the necesary legal view with copyrights to find out exactly what I can and can not do. Perhaps an attorney might be able to get some permission from the various licensing offices for the copyright holders to do what I want to do legally. Generally, speaking my previous experience with companies is they won't listen to you as an individual, but they will listen to your attorney if they make the request through more legal channels. However, obtaining an attorney to do this is not exactly a cheap prospect. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
Hi Josh, Not legally. All an LLC means is that USA Games, not me personally, would get sued for damages and they could get a court order to close USA Games down or charge royalties from USA Games which would kill the company in any case. You have to understand here I started USA Games as a hobby. I didn't plan to start USA Games to fight legal battles with Lucas, Edos, Activision, etc on their polacies and licenses. I don't like it any more than you do, but sometimes you just can't win. Sometimes you need to face the facts of life. That fact is life isn't fair and never was. josh wrote: so thomas could still sell his starwars game? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
you could encourage people to donate money. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Josh, Unfortunately, that kind of thinking doesn't do anyone any good. That won't stop them for suing for damages if they decided to take it to that extreme. Besides which if they get a court order to destroy my materials and I fail to comply with that court order that could be seenas contempt of court. About the only way I know of to protect myself from that type of situation would either clone the software without using trade marks or design all of my copyrighted games under a open source license agreement. If I go with an open source license agreement that puts all of my hard work in the public domain with no financial backing for the product. Yeah, you guys get a free game, but what money or financial gain do I get out of it? josh wrote: Hi thomas, if i were you, I would make the game, and then if they ask you to destroy it, say, well you see, I'd really like to, but the game has already been sold to blind people all over the world including in the middle eastern countries. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
some of that opensource stuff is donation ware. At 12:33 p.m. 1/02/2008, you wrote: you could encourage people to donate money. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Josh, Unfortunately, that kind of thinking doesn't do anyone any good. That won't stop them for suing for damages if they decided to take it to that extreme. Besides which if they get a court order to destroy my materials and I fail to comply with that court order that could be seenas contempt of court. About the only way I know of to protect myself from that type of situation would either clone the software without using trade marks or design all of my copyrighted games under a open source license agreement. If I go with an open source license agreement that puts all of my hard work in the public domain with no financial backing for the product. Yeah, you guys get a free game, but what money or financial gain do I get out of it? josh wrote: Hi thomas, if i were you, I would make the game, and then if they ask you to destroy it, say, well you see, I'd really like to, but the game has already been sold to blind people all over the world including in the middle eastern countries. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
hi thomas, When I learn visual basic, probably when i go back to college, and if I make games and use copyrighted material: I will just use the sounds and if they come after me they come after me, if not, oh well. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Bryan, That is exactly the issue I am facing. If I release my Tomb Raider game and Star Wars games as fan fiction, make them open source, etc it might be enough to cover my butt legally since I did not technically make any money off the games. However, that still breaks the part of the end user license agreement that states that all sounds, music, pictures, etc are for my soul use, and may not be transmitted, sublicenced, etc without the expressed permission of the copyright holder. If so that really screws me if I want to even offer a free version of the game. What all this really boils down to is if I really want to work with copyrighted materials I will have to retain an attorney to give me the necesary legal view with copyrights to find out exactly what I can and can not do. Perhaps an attorney might be able to get some permission from the various licensing offices for the copyright holders to do what I want to do legally. Generally, speaking my previous experience with companies is they won't listen to you as an individual, but they will listen to your attorney if they make the request through more legal channels. However, obtaining an attorney to do this is not exactly a cheap prospect. Bryan wrote: That probably wouldn't be smart. At least if he released it as fanfiction and freeware, Lucas Arts wouldn't have any leg to stand on because it was in the public domain. But if he sold it...well you get the idea. It wouldn't be pretty. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1254 - Release Date: 1/31/2008 8:30 PM --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
Hi thomas, if i were you, I would make the game, and then if they ask you to destroy it, say, well you see, I'd really like to, but the game has already been sold to blind people all over the world including in the middle eastern countries. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Bryan, Oh, yeah. Lucas Arts is very protective of their Star Wars copyrights. Have you read the Star Wars terms of use lately? If not here is a small quote from the Star Wars terms of use snipped from their license agreement. Quote STAR WARS; STAR WARS : EPISODE I THE PHANTOM MENACE; STAR WARS: EPISODE II ATTACK OF THE CLONES; STAR WARS : EPISODE III REVENGE OF THE SITH; STAR WARS : EPISODE IV A NEW HOPE; STAR WARS: EPISODE V THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK; STAR WARS : EPISODE VI RETURN OF THE JEDI (collectively referred to herein as the “ Star Wars Pictures”) and all other Lucasfilm productions, and all logos, characters, artwork, stories, information, names, software, and other elements associated thereto are the sole and exclusive property of Lucasfilm Ltd.. Any use of any of the materials on this Site other than for private, non-commercial viewing purposes is strictly prohibited. The sale, auction, lease, loan, gift, trade or barter, or use of any of the Star Wars materials contained herein, for any other purpose except as expressly permitted pursuant to these Terms of Use, in any form, media or technology now known or hereafter developed, including the use of any of the aforementioned materials on any other Web site or networked computer environment, without a prior written consent from Lucas, is expressly prohibited. Except as expressly provided for under the Terms of Use, the creation of derivative works based on the materials contained herein is expressly prohibited. You may download one copy of the materials on any single computer for your personal, non-commercial home use only, provided you keep intact all copyright and other proprietary notices. Modification of the materials or use of the materials for any other purpose is a violation of Lucas’s copyright and other proprietary rights. End quote That is only part of the license agreement, and what I did show is very strongly worded. I read later on in the agreement that any ideas, emails, stories, pictures, etc you create with Star Wars instantly becomes the property of Lucas Film and Lucas Arts no questions asked. So even if I wrote such a game according to the terms of use section of the license agreement they have the right to take the game away, destroy it, or whatever they want to do with it. Kind of hard to fight a license agreement like that in court blind or not. While some developer can sit around saying they won't bother me because I am blind that is being a bit unrealistic. They might not, but then again they have every legal right to do so. Their license agreement sounds like they are pretty serious and they don't take very kindly to any copyright violation in any way shape or form. Even though they may be in the wrong for not offering an accessible SW game for us. Bryan wrote: Especially since the folks at Lucas Arts in particular seem to be such jerks. I've heard a lot of things about them, that they've been known to attack fan sites for even inadvertently violating a copyright. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.17/1252 - Release Date: 1/30/2008 8:51 PM --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
In which case, he'd! be! busted! Very, very bad idea. --- If you don't stand behind our troops, please, feel free ... to stand in front of them! - Original Message - From: josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi thomas, if i were you, I would make the game, and then if they ask you to destroy it, say, well you see, I'd really like to, but the game has already been sold to blind people all over the world including in the middle eastern countries. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Bryan, Oh, yeah. Lucas Arts is very protective of their Star Wars copyrights. Have you read the Star Wars terms of use lately? If not here is a small quote from the Star Wars terms of use snipped from their license agreement. Quote STAR WARS; STAR WARS : EPISODE I THE PHANTOM MENACE; STAR WARS: EPISODE II ATTACK OF THE CLONES; STAR WARS : EPISODE III REVENGE OF THE SITH; STAR WARS : EPISODE IV A NEW HOPE; STAR WARS: EPISODE V THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK; STAR WARS : EPISODE VI RETURN OF THE JEDI (collectively referred to herein as the “ Star Wars Pictures”) and all other Lucasfilm productions, and all logos, characters, artwork, stories, information, names, software, and other elements associated thereto are the sole and exclusive property of Lucasfilm Ltd.. Any use of any of the materials on this Site other than for private, non-commercial viewing purposes is strictly prohibited. The sale, auction, lease, loan, gift, trade or barter, or use of any of the Star Wars materials contained herein, for any other purpose except as expressly permitted pursuant to these Terms of Use, in any form, media or technology now known or hereafter developed, including the use of any of the aforementioned materials on any other Web site or networked computer environment, without a prior written consent from Lucas, is expressly prohibited. Except as expressly provided for under the Terms of Use, the creation of derivative works based on the materials contained herein is expressly prohibited. You may download one copy of the materials on any single computer for your personal, non-commercial home use only, provided you keep intact all copyright and other proprietary notices. Modification of the materials or use of the materials for any other purpose is a violation of Lucas’s copyright and other proprietary rights. End quote That is only part of the license agreement, and what I did show is very strongly worded. I read later on in the agreement that any ideas, emails, stories, pictures, etc you create with Star Wars instantly becomes the property of Lucas Film and Lucas Arts no questions asked. So even if I wrote such a game according to the terms of use section of the license agreement they have the right to take the game away, destroy it, or whatever they want to do with it. Kind of hard to fight a license agreement like that in court blind or not. While some developer can sit around saying they won't bother me because I am blind that is being a bit unrealistic. They might not, but then again they have every legal right to do so. Their license agreement sounds like they are pretty serious and they don't take very kindly to any copyright violation in any way shape or form. Even though they may be in the wrong for not offering an accessible SW game for us. Bryan wrote: Especially since the folks at Lucas Arts in particular seem to be such jerks. I've heard a lot of things about them, that they've been known to attack fan sites for even inadvertently violating a copyright. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.17/1252 - Release Date: 1/30/2008 8:51 PM --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
That probably wouldn't be smart. At least if he released it as fanfiction and freeware, Lucas Arts wouldn't have any leg to stand on because it was in the public domain. But if he sold it...well you get the idea. It wouldn't be pretty. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi thomas, if i were you, I would make the game, and then if they ask you to destroy it, say, well you see, I'd really like to, but the game has already been sold to blind people all over the world including in the middle eastern countries. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Bryan, Oh, yeah. Lucas Arts is very protective of their Star Wars copyrights. Have you read the Star Wars terms of use lately? If not here is a small quote from the Star Wars terms of use snipped from their license agreement. Quote STAR WARS; STAR WARS : EPISODE I THE PHANTOM MENACE; STAR WARS: EPISODE II ATTACK OF THE CLONES; STAR WARS : EPISODE III REVENGE OF THE SITH; STAR WARS : EPISODE IV A NEW HOPE; STAR WARS: EPISODE V THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK; STAR WARS : EPISODE VI RETURN OF THE JEDI (collectively referred to herein as the “ Star Wars Pictures”) and all other Lucasfilm productions, and all logos, characters, artwork, stories, information, names, software, and other elements associated thereto are the sole and exclusive property of Lucasfilm Ltd.. Any use of any of the materials on this Site other than for private, non-commercial viewing purposes is strictly prohibited. The sale, auction, lease, loan, gift, trade or barter, or use of any of the Star Wars materials contained herein, for any other purpose except as expressly permitted pursuant to these Terms of Use, in any form, media or technology now known or hereafter developed, including the use of any of the aforementioned materials on any other Web site or networked computer environment, without a prior written consent from Lucas, is expressly prohibited. Except as expressly provided for under the Terms of Use, the creation of derivative works based on the materials contained herein is expressly prohibited. You may download one copy of the materials on any single computer for your personal, non-commercial home use only, provided you keep intact all copyright and other proprietary notices. Modification of the materials or use of the materials for any other purpose is a violation of Lucas’s copyright and other proprietary rights. End quote That is only part of the license agreement, and what I did show is very strongly worded. I read later on in the agreement that any ideas, emails, stories, pictures, etc you create with Star Wars instantly becomes the property of Lucas Film and Lucas Arts no questions asked. So even if I wrote such a game according to the terms of use section of the license agreement they have the right to take the game away, destroy it, or whatever they want to do with it. Kind of hard to fight a license agreement like that in court blind or not. While some developer can sit around saying they won't bother me because I am blind that is being a bit unrealistic. They might not, but then again they have every legal right to do so. Their license agreement sounds like they are pretty serious and they don't take very kindly to any copyright violation in any way shape or form. Even though they may be in the wrong for not offering an accessible SW game for us. Bryan wrote: Especially since the folks at Lucas Arts in particular seem to be such jerks. I've heard a lot of things about them, that they've been known to attack fan sites for even inadvertently violating a copyright. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.17/1252 - Release Date: 1/30/2008 8:51 PM --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
yes true. Lucas arts is just greedy greedy greedy that's all. - Original Message - From: Bryan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights That probably wouldn't be smart. At least if he released it as fanfiction and freeware, Lucas Arts wouldn't have any leg to stand on because it was in the public domain. But if he sold it...well you get the idea. It wouldn't be pretty. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi thomas, if i were you, I would make the game, and then if they ask you to destroy it, say, well you see, I'd really like to, but the game has already been sold to blind people all over the world including in the middle eastern countries. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Bryan, Oh, yeah. Lucas Arts is very protective of their Star Wars copyrights. Have you read the Star Wars terms of use lately? If not here is a small quote from the Star Wars terms of use snipped from their license agreement. Quote STAR WARS; STAR WARS : EPISODE I THE PHANTOM MENACE; STAR WARS: EPISODE II ATTACK OF THE CLONES; STAR WARS : EPISODE III REVENGE OF THE SITH; STAR WARS : EPISODE IV A NEW HOPE; STAR WARS: EPISODE V THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK; STAR WARS : EPISODE VI RETURN OF THE JEDI (collectively referred to herein as the “ Star Wars Pictures”) and all other Lucasfilm productions, and all logos, characters, artwork, stories, information, names, software, and other elements associated thereto are the sole and exclusive property of Lucasfilm Ltd.. Any use of any of the materials on this Site other than for private, non-commercial viewing purposes is strictly prohibited. The sale, auction, lease, loan, gift, trade or barter, or use of any of the Star Wars materials contained herein, for any other purpose except as expressly permitted pursuant to these Terms of Use, in any form, media or technology now known or hereafter developed, including the use of any of the aforementioned materials on any other Web site or networked computer environment, without a prior written consent from Lucas, is expressly prohibited. Except as expressly provided for under the Terms of Use, the creation of derivative works based on the materials contained herein is expressly prohibited. You may download one copy of the materials on any single computer for your personal, non-commercial home use only, provided you keep intact all copyright and other proprietary notices. Modification of the materials or use of the materials for any other purpose is a violation of Lucas’s copyright and other proprietary rights. End quote That is only part of the license agreement, and what I did show is very strongly worded. I read later on in the agreement that any ideas, emails, stories, pictures, etc you create with Star Wars instantly becomes the property of Lucas Film and Lucas Arts no questions asked. So even if I wrote such a game according to the terms of use section of the license agreement they have the right to take the game away, destroy it, or whatever they want to do with it. Kind of hard to fight a license agreement like that in court blind or not. While some developer can sit around saying they won't bother me because I am blind that is being a bit unrealistic. They might not, but then again they have every legal right to do so. Their license agreement sounds like they are pretty serious and they don't take very kindly to any copyright violation in any way shape or form. Even though they may be in the wrong for not offering an accessible SW game for us. Bryan wrote: Especially since the folks at Lucas Arts in particular seem to be such jerks. I've heard a lot of things about them, that they've been known to attack fan sites for even inadvertently violating a copyright. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.17/1252 - Release Date: 1/30/2008 8:51 PM --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
Most mainstream devs are. True, Nintendo did seem very open to the idea of blind accessible games when I spoke to them a while back, but I still wouldn't fancy trying to copy one of their titles without perrmission. Dragon Slayer Games is certainly pushing their luck with their Mario game. Admittedly it's probably going to be free, but still. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned that Mario game, despite their claim, isn't really in the true Mario spirit, even if it features music and sounds from the game. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights yes true. Lucas arts is just greedy greedy greedy that's all. - Original Message - From: Bryan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights That probably wouldn't be smart. At least if he released it as fanfiction and freeware, Lucas Arts wouldn't have any leg to stand on because it was in the public domain. But if he sold it...well you get the idea. It wouldn't be pretty. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi thomas, if i were you, I would make the game, and then if they ask you to destroy it, say, well you see, I'd really like to, but the game has already been sold to blind people all over the world including in the middle eastern countries. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Bryan, Oh, yeah. Lucas Arts is very protective of their Star Wars copyrights. Have you read the Star Wars terms of use lately? If not here is a small quote from the Star Wars terms of use snipped from their license agreement. Quote STAR WARS; STAR WARS : EPISODE I THE PHANTOM MENACE; STAR WARS: EPISODE II ATTACK OF THE CLONES; STAR WARS : EPISODE III REVENGE OF THE SITH; STAR WARS : EPISODE IV A NEW HOPE; STAR WARS: EPISODE V THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK; STAR WARS : EPISODE VI RETURN OF THE JEDI (collectively referred to herein as the “ Star Wars Pictures”) and all other Lucasfilm productions, and all logos, characters, artwork, stories, information, names, software, and other elements associated thereto are the sole and exclusive property of Lucasfilm Ltd.. Any use of any of the materials on this Site other than for private, non-commercial viewing purposes is strictly prohibited. The sale, auction, lease, loan, gift, trade or barter, or use of any of the Star Wars materials contained herein, for any other purpose except as expressly permitted pursuant to these Terms of Use, in any form, media or technology now known or hereafter developed, including the use of any of the aforementioned materials on any other Web site or networked computer environment, without a prior written consent from Lucas, is expressly prohibited. Except as expressly provided for under the Terms of Use, the creation of derivative works based on the materials contained herein is expressly prohibited. You may download one copy of the materials on any single computer for your personal, non-commercial home use only, provided you keep intact all copyright and other proprietary notices. Modification of the materials or use of the materials for any other purpose is a violation of Lucas’s copyright and other proprietary rights. End quote That is only part of the license agreement, and what I did show is very strongly worded. I read later on in the agreement that any ideas, emails, stories, pictures, etc you create with Star Wars instantly becomes the property of Lucas Film and Lucas Arts no questions asked. So even if I wrote such a game according to the terms of use section of the license agreement they have the right to take the game away, destroy it, or whatever they want to do with it. Kind of hard to fight a license agreement like that in court blind or not. While some developer can sit around saying they won't bother me because I am blind that is being a bit unrealistic. They might not, but then again they have every legal right to do so. Their license agreement sounds like they are pretty serious and they don't take very kindly to any copyright violation in any way shape or form. Even though they may be in the wrong for not offering an accessible SW game for us. Bryan wrote: Especially since the folks at Lucas Arts in particular seem to be such jerks. I've heard a lot of things about them, that they've been known to attack fan sites for even inadvertently violating a copyright. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
If any developers have thoughts of using any copyrighted material and making a profit from it, I highly suggest you set up a LLC for your company. This stands for limited liability company, and basically protects the owner from lawsuits going after their personal property for any claims. Though I don't intend on pushing copyright stuff with blind adrenaline, this protects me if some bozo wants to claim my software screwed up his computer or something similarly frivilous. A good lawyer can do this for you for around $100, plus you will need a checking account for the company for tax purposes. Having seen some small businesses get burned, I highly recommend this setup for any small game developers. Later, Che - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights In which case, he'd! be! busted! Very, very bad idea. --- If you don't stand behind our troops, please, feel free ... to stand in front of them! - Original Message - From: josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi thomas, if i were you, I would make the game, and then if they ask you to destroy it, say, well you see, I'd really like to, but the game has already been sold to blind people all over the world including in the middle eastern countries. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Bryan, Oh, yeah. Lucas Arts is very protective of their Star Wars copyrights. Have you read the Star Wars terms of use lately? If not here is a small quote from the Star Wars terms of use snipped from their license agreement. Quote STAR WARS; STAR WARS : EPISODE I THE PHANTOM MENACE; STAR WARS: EPISODE II ATTACK OF THE CLONES; STAR WARS : EPISODE III REVENGE OF THE SITH; STAR WARS : EPISODE IV A NEW HOPE; STAR WARS: EPISODE V THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK; STAR WARS : EPISODE VI RETURN OF THE JEDI (collectively referred to herein as the “ Star Wars Pictures”) and all other Lucasfilm productions, and all logos, characters, artwork, stories, information, names, software, and other elements associated thereto are the sole and exclusive property of Lucasfilm Ltd.. Any use of any of the materials on this Site other than for private, non-commercial viewing purposes is strictly prohibited. The sale, auction, lease, loan, gift, trade or barter, or use of any of the Star Wars materials contained herein, for any other purpose except as expressly permitted pursuant to these Terms of Use, in any form, media or technology now known or hereafter developed, including the use of any of the aforementioned materials on any other Web site or networked computer environment, without a prior written consent from Lucas, is expressly prohibited. Except as expressly provided for under the Terms of Use, the creation of derivative works based on the materials contained herein is expressly prohibited. You may download one copy of the materials on any single computer for your personal, non-commercial home use only, provided you keep intact all copyright and other proprietary notices. Modification of the materials or use of the materials for any other purpose is a violation of Lucas’s copyright and other proprietary rights. End quote That is only part of the license agreement, and what I did show is very strongly worded. I read later on in the agreement that any ideas, emails, stories, pictures, etc you create with Star Wars instantly becomes the property of Lucas Film and Lucas Arts no questions asked. So even if I wrote such a game according to the terms of use section of the license agreement they have the right to take the game away, destroy it, or whatever they want to do with it. Kind of hard to fight a license agreement like that in court blind or not. While some developer can sit around saying they won't bother me because I am blind that is being a bit unrealistic. They might not, but then again they have every legal right to do so. Their license agreement sounds like they are pretty serious and they don't take very kindly to any copyright violation in any way shape or form. Even though they may be in the wrong for not offering an accessible SW game for us. Bryan wrote: Especially since the folks at Lucas Arts in particular seem to be such jerks. I've heard a lot of things about them, that they've been known to attack fan sites for even inadvertently violating a copyright. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
Hi Ari, That goes without saying. A Star Wars license is nice, but a mantion with my own Limo driver is nicer. Grin ari wrote: And Tom, if you're ever somehow manage to become a millionaire, I'm sure you'd rather use the money for better things than a starwars license! Ari --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
Especially since the folks at Lucas Arts in particular seem to be such jerks. I've heard a lot of things about them, that they've been known to attack fan sites for even inadvertently violating a copyright. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] copyrights Hi Ari, That goes without saying. A Star Wars license is nice, but a mantion with my own Limo driver is nicer. Grin ari wrote: And Tom, if you're ever somehow manage to become a millionaire, I'm sure you'd rather use the money for better things than a starwars license! Ari --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
Hi Bryan, Oh, yeah. Lucas Arts is very protective of their Star Wars copyrights. Have you read the Star Wars terms of use lately? If not here is a small quote from the Star Wars terms of use snipped from their license agreement. Quote STAR WARS; STAR WARS : EPISODE I THE PHANTOM MENACE; STAR WARS: EPISODE II ATTACK OF THE CLONES; STAR WARS : EPISODE III REVENGE OF THE SITH; STAR WARS : EPISODE IV A NEW HOPE; STAR WARS: EPISODE V THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK; STAR WARS : EPISODE VI RETURN OF THE JEDI (collectively referred to herein as the “ Star Wars Pictures”) and all other Lucasfilm productions, and all logos, characters, artwork, stories, information, names, software, and other elements associated thereto are the sole and exclusive property of Lucasfilm Ltd.. Any use of any of the materials on this Site other than for private, non-commercial viewing purposes is strictly prohibited. The sale, auction, lease, loan, gift, trade or barter, or use of any of the Star Wars materials contained herein, for any other purpose except as expressly permitted pursuant to these Terms of Use, in any form, media or technology now known or hereafter developed, including the use of any of the aforementioned materials on any other Web site or networked computer environment, without a prior written consent from Lucas, is expressly prohibited. Except as expressly provided for under the Terms of Use, the creation of derivative works based on the materials contained herein is expressly prohibited. You may download one copy of the materials on any single computer for your personal, non-commercial home use only, provided you keep intact all copyright and other proprietary notices. Modification of the materials or use of the materials for any other purpose is a violation of Lucas’s copyright and other proprietary rights. End quote That is only part of the license agreement, and what I did show is very strongly worded. I read later on in the agreement that any ideas, emails, stories, pictures, etc you create with Star Wars instantly becomes the property of Lucas Film and Lucas Arts no questions asked. So even if I wrote such a game according to the terms of use section of the license agreement they have the right to take the game away, destroy it, or whatever they want to do with it. Kind of hard to fight a license agreement like that in court blind or not. While some developer can sit around saying they won't bother me because I am blind that is being a bit unrealistic. They might not, but then again they have every legal right to do so. Their license agreement sounds like they are pretty serious and they don't take very kindly to any copyright violation in any way shape or form. Even though they may be in the wrong for not offering an accessible SW game for us. Bryan wrote: Especially since the folks at Lucas Arts in particular seem to be such jerks. I've heard a lot of things about them, that they've been known to attack fan sites for even inadvertently violating a copyright. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
Hi William, First, I'd like to point out that only a couple of sounds were used from Tomb Raider. More specifically the death, jump, and pain sounds for Angela Summers were taken from Tomb Raider II. However, I could easily remove them upon request from Edos or Core Design without too much difficulty. That is a totally different tthing than outright copying an entire game detail for detail. Second, weather or not the owners of the copyrights know about it or not copying a game is still illegal based on current copyright law. There are ways of doing something similar to the copyrighted work without directly violating the copyrighted material itself. one way is creating your own work with different characters, slightly different story line, and the same kind of action and adventure. Third, as for the sound effects most of the effects are common everyday effects anyone can create. For example, the gun sounds, foot step sounds, wolves, dogs, mummies, etc are all sound effects anyone can create or obtain through legal means. In fact, some sounds like the 44 Magnum I have found an effect that was better than the original one. Mine actually has a echo and report that sounds more realistic. Finally, as far as the music goes I do plan in offering the original TR music for my Tomb Raider game, but under a different license. If you don't like the stock music with my Tomb Hunter game you can download the music and sound pack, agree to the license, and install it. However, I won't ship the music with the game do to copyrights. william lomas wrote: hi thomas you say you tookt he sounds from tombraider to use in monty anyways so why not just make a direct clone of tombraider for us using sound and music how on earth we expect the mainstream company to find out god knows, as if they'd care anyways we aren't exactly a large market, are we if the game is going to be based on different sounds, character, music etc, then it won't be tombraider, will it will --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
Hi William, Unfortunately, it is near impossible for a small time developer to get legal permission to use big name copyrights. Especially, million dollar copyrights such as Star Wars, Star Trek, and Tomb Raider. I've already been down that road with very nasty and negative results to show for it. A little over a year ago I began trying to contact Lucas Film Limited's copyright office. Getting the proper contact information itself was a pain to get, and I kind of think they don't want just anyone applying for copyright permission. I finally wrote them a very detailed email of why I wanted the copyright, what I was doing, and when I finally heard back from someone the response was pretty clear I didn't have a prayer of getting a legal license for Star Wars. There were several reasons that killed my chances in obtaining a legal license to use the Star Wars copyrights and trademarks. Let me fill you in on those details. First, you need to understand these guys have big ideas about making money. The Lucas Licensing department made it very clear to me that they only license to major companies that can afford the licensing fees. Usually toy, book, and game companies that have millions of dollars in change to toss around. I simply did not have the millions of dollars to compete with Hasbro, Bantam Double Day Publishing, etc who spend millions in retaining their legal licenses for Star Wars products. Second, I discovered that Lucas Licensing offers only exclusive licenses. What that means that only one company at a time can own a license for that type of product. For example, because Hasbro Toys owns the license for Star Wars and Indiana Jones action figures Mattel Inc can not apply for a license to create a similar product. As a result because Lucas Arts holds the video game license for Star Wars and Indiana Jones video games USA Games can not acquire the rights to create a similar product. Even though my games would not be for the general public, even though Lucas Arts games are not accessible, I can't qualify for a license under the terms of the license agreement. Finally, you need to understand there isn't enough blind gamers around to get large companies interest in taking up the cause of accessible gaming. Our mailing list has about 200 active members at any given time, and that number is a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of people buying mainstream Star Wars products like action figures, books, movies, comics, posters, etc. In the scheme of things 200 people just don't register as a viable market. As far as the Tomb Raider copyrights goes I haven't contacted the copyright holders for permission mainly because I am not too hopeful of acquiring the licenses I want. The existing Tomb Raider products such as the movies, toys, and games have sold millions world wide. A small time developer such as myself has nothing to offer the copyright holder. For example, let us say i could license Tomb Raider for 25% of my sales. That means if I sold $1000 in sales $250 goes to the copyright holder which is mere change to those guys. Almost not even worth collecting from me. However, to USA Games that $250 could be spent on sound effects for a new game, or I could spend it on my wife's car insurance bill. Even if I could get the legal rights to do the real Tomb Raider deal that $250 would be best spent in my pocket for things I want or need rather than giving it away to an ungreatful copyright holder who can do without my money. william lomas wrote: simple then, smile, attempt to get the permission if that doesn't work then i agree make a different version --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] copyrights
And Tom, if you're ever somehow manage to become a millionaire, I'm sure you'd rather use the money for better things than a starwars license! Ari --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
