Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games
yes some of those games might be hard to make but if you don't try your never know i guess i just miss playing my video games -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games
if you make a castlevania game would you have the main person on it or would you play as some one else -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games
I understand, but there are also legal issues to contend with. Sometimes developers will come after you if your game is even remotely similar to theirs. THomas Ward not only got served with a cease and desist letter about Montezuma's Revenge, but he had to change tactics again when he thought of calling it Return instead of Revenge. Another developer wanted him to change it. Rather than fight a legal battle he couldn't afford he did the onl thing he felt he could. I'd have done the same in his shoes. Besides, even forgetting the potential for legal trouble, as I said a game like what we'd all like to see, particularly a fullscale RPG, would take years to develop alone. And every developer works differently so banding together isn't an option either. That's why BSC Games had to scrap Castle Quest. That did upset me of course but it just proves that working with another developer isn't always a viable option. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games yes some of those games might be hard to make but if you don't try your never know i guess i just miss playing my video games -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games
Huh? What do you mean? You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 2:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games if you make a castlevania game would you have the main person on it or would you play as some one else -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] making old video games audio games
i'm not a game maker but i do have some great ideal for some audio games that would be cool to play to start with i lost my sight this past october and so i miss playing video games that why i love jim kitchens games and others audio games here is two ideal the first one is could someone make a frogger game like the one on atari and a super mario brothers game like the one on the nintendo one more that alot of people would play is mortal kombat now that would be cool to play those games again that is if someone that makes game would make it another two games the legend of zelda and final fanatsy and sonic the hedghog -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games
I too, would love ot see a zelda or final fantasy like game. But know that it probably won't happen. So many resources have to go into that style of game. Story lines, getting all the plot together, acting as well since you would have much or interaction and talking with the characters. It would become expensive. I dream though of seeing it. lol and you know, a castlevania style game would be pretty awesome. Kellie and my lovable Lady J. Resident Adviser, Guide Dogs for the Blind Oregon campus www.guidedogs.com - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games All great ideas, but they would have to tread extremely carefully in order to avoid the sort of legal trouble THomas Ward almost had with some of his projects. I agree with the idea of a Frogger game. As for Zelda and Final Fantasy, I have a feeling both are beyond the scope of what most audio game makers are able or willing to try. THe closest thing we have to that is Entombed from Blind-Games.com, and that's still very much in its early stages. The closest thing we have to Mario Brothers was developed by Dragon Slayer Games, and I must say it's not worth the time to play it, mainly due to some technical issues and some extremely odd controls. Personally I'd like to see an audio Castlevania style game. Maybe it might be time for me to check out some of those programming resources Thomas Ward mentioned a while back... You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 6:17 AM Subject: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games i'm not a game maker but i do have some great ideal for some audio games that would be cool to play to start with i lost my sight this past october and so i miss playing video games that why i love jim kitchens games and others audio games here is two ideal the first one is could someone make a frogger game like the one on atari and a super mario brothers game like the one on the nintendo one more that alot of people would play is mortal kombat now that would be cool to play those games again that is if someone that makes game would make it another two games the legend of zelda and final fanatsy and sonic the hedghog -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games
Exactly. It's rather depressing as a matter of fact. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: Kellie and my lovable Lady J. pebbles...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 10:36 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games I too, would love ot see a zelda or final fantasy like game. But know that it probably won't happen. So many resources have to go into that style of game. Story lines, getting all the plot together, acting as well since you would have much or interaction and talking with the characters. It would become expensive. I dream though of seeing it. lol and you know, a castlevania style game would be pretty awesome. Kellie and my lovable Lady J. Resident Adviser, Guide Dogs for the Blind Oregon campus www.guidedogs.com - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games All great ideas, but they would have to tread extremely carefully in order to avoid the sort of legal trouble THomas Ward almost had with some of his projects. I agree with the idea of a Frogger game. As for Zelda and Final Fantasy, I have a feeling both are beyond the scope of what most audio game makers are able or willing to try. THe closest thing we have to that is Entombed from Blind-Games.com, and that's still very much in its early stages. The closest thing we have to Mario Brothers was developed by Dragon Slayer Games, and I must say it's not worth the time to play it, mainly due to some technical issues and some extremely odd controls. Personally I'd like to see an audio Castlevania style game. Maybe it might be time for me to check out some of those programming resources Thomas Ward mentioned a while back... You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 6:17 AM Subject: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games i'm not a game maker but i do have some great ideal for some audio games that would be cool to play to start with i lost my sight this past october and so i miss playing video games that why i love jim kitchens games and others audio games here is two ideal the first one is could someone make a frogger game like the one on atari and a super mario brothers game like the one on the nintendo one more that alot of people would play is mortal kombat now that would be cool to play those games again that is if someone that makes game would make it another two games the legend of zelda and final fanatsy and sonic the hedghog -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games
I think frogger would be no issue as its arcade but anything else. Soundrts is another type, its a straight clone of warcraft, at least the concept is coppied. no new releases have come out since april though. At 04:55 a.m. 10/08/2009, you wrote: All great ideas, but they would have to tread extremely carefully in order to avoid the sort of legal trouble THomas Ward almost had with some of his projects. I agree with the idea of a Frogger game. As for Zelda and Final Fantasy, I have a feeling both are beyond the scope of what most audio game makers are able or willing to try. THe closest thing we have to that is Entombed from Blind-Games.com, and that's still very much in its early stages. The closest thing we have to Mario Brothers was developed by Dragon Slayer Games, and I must say it's not worth the time to play it, mainly due to some technical issues and some extremely odd controls. Personally I'd like to see an audio Castlevania style game. Maybe it might be time for me to check out some of those programming resources Thomas Ward mentioned a while back... You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 6:17 AM Subject: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games i'm not a game maker but i do have some great ideal for some audio games that would be cool to play to start with i lost my sight this past october and so i miss playing video games that why i love jim kitchens games and others audio games here is two ideal the first one is could someone make a frogger game like the one on atari and a super mario brothers game like the one on the nintendo one more that alot of people would play is mortal kombat now that would be cool to play those games again that is if someone that makes game would make it another two games the legend of zelda and final fanatsy and sonic the hedghog -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games
Hi Michael, I agree that it would be nice to see some classic vidio games be made in an accessible format, but unfortunately accessible game developers are confronted with three basic problems. First, there is the sticky issue of copyright infringement. Whenever a game company like Activision, nintendo, Capcom, Edos, EA Games, etc creates a game it is copyrighted and trade marked by the company that produced it. So any third-party developer who wants to come up with his own Super Mario Brothers, Final Fantacy, or Legend of Zelda game should apply for copyright permission from the company that created the game. I can say from personal experience getting permission from these companies is very unlikely. Even if they give you permission they wish to charge you royalties on the game which most small time game developers can't afford. Failior to apply for written permission could result in a big fat copyright infringement lawsuit. There are, however, some ways to work around the copyright laws, but they aren't absolute protection. Under the fair use provisions in the U.S. copyright laws if a software product is for free, is released for educational purposes, open source, etc it can be protected under the fair use provisions. However, even so, it isn't safe because several companies, including Microsoft, frequently challenge the fair use provisions all the time. So what this means if I or another accessible game developer were to consider writing a game clone it better be free, open source, and disclaim any commercial interest in the product. As a result the developer would have to forget about selling the game for the time and money spend on developing the game. Since high quality sound effects costs quite a bit it could get expensive with no way of earning that money back. Second, there is the complexity of the game in question. Games like Final Fantacy and Legend of Zelda aren't simple games to create. I should know as I've actually thought several times of doing just that. However, after reviewing the walkthroughs to refresh my memory on the games I've discovered various problems in converting them to an accessible format. The major issue is the time involved to create a game like Legend of Zelda. Legend of Zelda features several overworld and underworld locations with several special items, monsters, and so on. All of that takes a considerable amount of time to program, and I currently don't have it to give to a project of this size. Then, you have various items and monsters that don't have sounds. converting them to an audio format is often tricky. You might just simply have to depend on Sapi to tell you the item is there and how far it is away etc. I'm sure there is a work around for this, but i wanted to point out that vidio games depend so much on vidio that most items and objects don't require sound. Since we need sound to find things it is up to the developer to come up with a way to cue the player into that silent object either by speech or by finding a sound that seams somewhat realistic. For example, In a science fiction game like Shades of Doom it is fine that doors and items beep. It seams quite realistic in that environment. However, in a fantacy game like Zelda a developer would have to come up with different sounds like bubbling potion bottles, clattering swords, rattling keys, etc to make a fantacy sounding scheme. Sometimes that isn't easy. Especially, if the game is low budget. Anyway, I am not saying that writing games like Frogger, Legend of Zelda, etc is impossible but it is problematic. That's wy quite a few developers stay clear of them. It is sometimes more of a hastle than it is worth. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games
Hi Bryan, Actually, I've been thinking of writing a Castlevania type game myself. I wouldn't call it Castlevania, for obvious reasons, but it has many of the same great features of the original side-scroller. The nice thing about Castlevania 1 was that it used public domain characters and enemies such as Dracula, mummies, skeletons, Frankenstein's Monster, Medusa, etc. So it is one of the classics a developer can legally bring back under a new name and with a few miner changes here and there. Anyway, as far as creating accessible classics a developer has to tread carefully. I found that out the very hard way. Montezuma's \Revenge is a 25 year old game, hasn't been sold commercially since the mid 1980's, and do you think the copyright holders cared? I was literally a couple of weeks away from final release and got a cease and desist letter from a lawyer working for the current Montezuma's Revenge copyright holders. Apparently the fact the game hasn't been commercially sold for years didn't matter. The fact that my version would be sold to a very few blind gamers didn't matter too much either. All that they cared about is that I had illegally written a game with the same name as their trade mark, that all rights belonged to them, and so on. Rather than battle it out in court I complied with the request and ditched the product before it got ugly. I'd hate to see another accessible game developer face a similar situation. Anyway, like you said Final Fantacy and legend of Zelda are really out of the practical range of any accessible game developer. Yes, I and some others could do it, but it would be hard work for little pay. Plus it would take ages to write something like that. Smile. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games
Hi, No offense SoundRTS doesn't come close to Warcraft. True, the concept is the same, but Warcraft has so much more to offer in terms of character races, campaign style play, sound effects, and so on. SoundRTS just isn't in Warcraft's league yet. shaun everiss wrote: I think frogger would be no issue as its arcade but anything else. Soundrts is another type, its a straight clone of warcraft, at least the concept is coppied. no new releases have come out since april though. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games
That's what I figured. I figured that even if someone did try to write an FF or Zelda style game it would quite literally take months if not years to do. And the copyright thing is all too true as I hinted at. If you were to write the Castlevania style game you were thinking of you'd also have to change the name of the main character since SImon Belmont is a trademark of Conami if I'm not mistaken. But I suppose coming up with some new names is a comparatively easy task. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] making old video games audio games Hi Bryan, Actually, I've been thinking of writing a Castlevania type game myself. I wouldn't call it Castlevania, for obvious reasons, but it has many of the same great features of the original side-scroller. The nice thing about Castlevania 1 was that it used public domain characters and enemies such as Dracula, mummies, skeletons, Frankenstein's Monster, Medusa, etc. So it is one of the classics a developer can legally bring back under a new name and with a few miner changes here and there. Anyway, as far as creating accessible classics a developer has to tread carefully. I found that out the very hard way. Montezuma's \Revenge is a 25 year old game, hasn't been sold commercially since the mid 1980's, and do you think the copyright holders cared? I was literally a couple of weeks away from final release and got a cease and desist letter from a lawyer working for the current Montezuma's Revenge copyright holders. Apparently the fact the game hasn't been commercially sold for years didn't matter. The fact that my version would be sold to a very few blind gamers didn't matter too much either. All that they cared about is that I had illegally written a game with the same name as their trade mark, that all rights belonged to them, and so on. Rather than battle it out in court I complied with the request and ditched the product before it got ugly. I'd hate to see another accessible game developer face a similar situation. Anyway, like you said Final Fantacy and legend of Zelda are really out of the practical range of any accessible game developer. Yes, I and some others could do it, but it would be hard work for little pay. Plus it would take ages to write something like that. Smile. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
