Wow. That's sobering. I'd like to think we don't have it that bad on WMF
sites, but maybe we do?
Then there's this:
Technical solutions abound when websites and apps provide options that take
targeted users into consideration -- namely, giving us back our ability to
make boundaries. For
Hm, we've discussed that author before... oh well.
What I found that could be of use for us: «giving us back our ability to
make boundaries [...] shouldn't let strangers message strangers, and all
sites and apps should allow users to block others. [...] A block should
be across all site
Carol Moore dc, 23/06/2014 06:34:
A lot of women used to be outspoken about all this here when this email
list started, but that stopped after a bunch of guys joined and started
hassling them about it.
SURPRISE!!
By looking at this directory, I can tell that I mostly stopped reading
this
Did this really just happen?
Did we really just read someone suggesting that women are not participating
as much in the mailing list -- with the more-than-subtle suggestion of the
cause being that they didn't feel this group is completely woman-friendly
-- and your response was to remind us what
I'm sorry Derric, but I think the topic of this thread is the notion that
many men, including those in administrator roles (e.g. list moderators)
simply don't even recognize misogyny, and don't recognize the importance of
providing systems by which women (and others, for that matter) can easily
There is a tendency of men to disregard women's discussion of issues
that affect them so, yes, men on a list like this can undermine its
purpose.
--Kathleen
On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm sorry Derric, but I think the topic of this thread is the notion
Moriel,
I meant no offense. My reason for posting that email was that I was feeling
uncomfortable with the direction that the discussion was going. I
intentionally left my email non-specific in an attempt to prevent offense to
anyone. I think you may have misunderstood me.
“A lot of
I'm sorry Derric, but I think the topic of this thread is the notion that
many men, including those in administrator roles (e.g. list moderators)
simply don't even recognize misogyny, and don't recognize the importance of
providing systems by which women (and others, for that matter) can
Derric, if I may suggest - the best way to get a mailing list back on topic
is to write to the topic, not to remind people of the rules.
Risker/Anne
On 23 June 2014 11:49, Derric Atzrott datzr...@alizeepathology.com wrote:
I'm sorry Derric, but I think the topic of this thread is the notion
Ok, I shouldn't have said two women but two members, the gender was
unimportant.
Risker, 23/06/2014 18:02:
Derric, if I may suggest - the best way to get a mailing list back on
topic is to write to the topic,
Sure, and of course the topic is throwing judgements on who missed the
point:
Responding to this on my phone, so please excuse what I assume will be
wonky formatting/quoting, but:
Derric, you say you hope your email didn't come across as shouting over the
women or generalizing about them, but to me it did (and I say this not
just to make you feel bad - I see you've
Derric,
I meant no offense. My reason for posting that email was that I was
feeling uncomfortable with the direction that the discussion was going. I
intentionally left my email non-specific in an attempt to prevent offense
to anyone. I think you may have misunderstood me.
That's why I
MediaWiki's mostly impersonal interaction helps a lot here.
No image avatars, no upvoting or downvoting of comments (something I don't
see the utility of on either Reddit or Quora, FTM). Maybe the features are
what we *don't* have.
Daniel Case
On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:
snip
The focus on technology here is very important. Right now, there is no
way for Wikimedians to control from whom they receive email this user
emails, or pings through the notification system. We know that both have
been,
Actually, I think there's something to be said for downvoting. Not in the
reddit i disagree sense, but in the slashdot/ meta filter comments
downvoted/flagged past a certain point will be hidden/deleted sense. It
would obviously take a lot of work to make that work within the media wiki
software
On 6/23/2014 11:45 AM, Kathleen McCook wrote:
There is a tendency of men to disregard women's discussion of issues
that affect them so, yes, men on a list like this can undermine its
purpose.
--Kathleen
FYI, for those who want to read the early archives, they are linked from
the bottom
Would anybody object to me hijacking this thread to use as a sort of meta
thread for what just happened? I have further questions and things to explain
and get feedback on. I can start another thread if wanted.
This whole situation sort of reminds me of when I tried suggesting on
Wikitech-l
On 6/23/2014 12:56 PM, Katherine Casey wrote:
Actually, I think there's something to be said for downvoting. Not in
the reddit i disagree sense, but in the slashdot/ meta filter
comments downvoted/flagged past a certain point will be
hidden/deleted sense. It would obviously take a lot of
On 6/23/2014 11:26 AM, Risker wrote:
I
The focus on technology here is very important. Right now, there is
no way for Wikimedians to control from whom they receive email this
user emails, or pings through the notification system. We know that
both have been, and continue to be, vectors for
Actually, I think there's something to be said for downvoting. Not in the
reddit i disagree sense, but in the slashdot/ meta filter comments
downvoted/flagged past a certain point will be hidden/deleted sense. It would
obviously take a lot of work to make that work within the media wiki
On the popular liberal/progressive website Daily Kos, the equivalent of
downvoting, “hide rec”’ing, is meant to be used only for really offensive or
out-of-line comments. Abusing that function, i.e., by constantly doing it to
the same user or similar opinions reasonably expressed, can lead
* bring back Wikipedia:Wikiquette_assistance since women may not want to got to
WP:ANI for low grade constant nonsense
Would support wholeheartedly.
* take complaints about harassment in general more seriously
Also would support wholeheartedly.
* Have a class action Arbitration on
On 6/23/2014 2:19 PM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Derric Atzrott
datzr...@alizeepathology.com mailto:datzr...@alizeepathology.com
wrote:
* bring back Wikipedia:Wikiquette_assistance since women may not
want to got to WP:ANI for low grade constant nonsense
On 6/23/2014 1:49 PM, Derric Atzrott wrote:
Studies are useful. This particular study shows promise I think:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia For
allies these sorts of things help us understand what we are actually
trying to accomplish and metrics are useful
Maybe it would be worth making threads for some of these ideas. If no one else
does, I'd be happy to.
*Threads here? Like proposals that could be worked over and brought to our
various wikis? That's what we need to do. I re-named one thread that dealt
with one issue and renamed this one too,
On 6/23/2014 3:17 PM, Derric Atzrott wrote:
Maybe it would be worth making threads for some of these ideas. If no
one else does, I'd be happy to.
*Threads here? Like proposals that could be worked over and brought to
our various wikis? That's what we need to do. I re-named one thread
I agree with Ryan that the wiki etiquette board was not helpful in many
situations largely because people who regularly patrol the board are often
people formerly brought to the board with issues about civility. While the
average editor stays away from this area. So often the discussions are less
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