On 2015-08-04 13:01, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Roman Shaposhnik ro...@shaposhnik.org wrote:
...Which would be totally fine and gets us back to the point Daniel and I were
discussing: a release compliance team (horrible name, I know) as part of ASF
IMO
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Roman Shaposhnik ro...@shaposhnik.org wrote:
...Which would be totally fine and gets us back to the point Daniel and I were
discussing: a release compliance team (horrible name, I know) as part of
ASF
IMO it's not a team that's needed, just a clear and
Hi Daniel,
On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Daniel Gruno humbed...@apache.org wrote:
On 2015-08-04 13:01, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
... IMO the Incubator PMC can very much own this checklist, and I
volunteer to contribute to creating it...
If interested, I would very much like to work with
Can you provide a pointer to a specific example of what you mean?
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Arvind Prabhakar arv...@apache.org wrote:
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Andrew Purtell apurt...@apache.org
wrote:
In fact, in my opinion it leads to the very unfortunate side effect
.
- Dennis
-Original Message-
From: Bertrand Delacretaz [mailto:bdelacre...@apache.org]
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2015 05:57
To: Incubator General general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from
the Apache Incubator)
Hi Daniel
{was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite
from the Apache Incubator)
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Joe Brockmeier j...@zonker.net wrote:
On Sun, Aug 2, 2015, at 10:05 PM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
I've been waiting for a bout a week for other to chime in, but it
seems that nobody has so I'll repeat my
Hi,
Just catching up on this thread. Going back a bit.
#2 The #1 goal is achieved via mentorship. In fact mentorship is
not even required as the case of Zest (and hopeful Yetus soon) demonstrated.
Not to pick on Zest but a casual glance at the current source release shows it
contains a
General general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the
Apache Incubator)
Hi Daniel,
On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Daniel Gruno humbed...@apache.org wrote:
On 2015-08-04 13:01, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
... IMO the Incubator PMC can
@incubator.apache.orgmailto:general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the
Apache Incubator)
On 2015-08-04 13:01, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Roman Shaposhnik ro...@shaposhnik.org wrote:
...Which would
meddling.
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Joe Brockmeiermailto:j...@zonker.net
Sent: 8/4/2015 9:16 AM
To: general@incubator.apache.orgmailto:general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the
Apache Incubator
Message-
From: Bertrand Delacretaz [mailto:bdelacre...@apache.org]
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2015 05:57
To: Incubator General general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from
the Apache Incubator)
Hi Daniel,
On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 1:15
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015, at 07:06 PM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
That said, I have personally been in positions where I have seen IPMC
members ask - and even demand things at times - that I feel are
unreasonable requests for the podling. The reason I do not challenge
those is because I feel that
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015, at 03:13 PM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Joe Brockmeier j...@zonker.net wrote:
On Sun, Aug 2, 2015, at 10:05 PM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
I've been waiting for a bout a week for other to chime in, but
it seems that nobody has so I'll repeat my
On Tue, Aug 4, 2015, at 12:23 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:
It's hard to get the balance right between appropriate oversight and
unwanted meddling.
No argument there. I'm unconvinced that a restructuring of the
IPMC/PPMC/Mentorship structure as it is today will solve that, though it
might push it
@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org
Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2015 at 9:12 AM
To: general@incubator.apache.org general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from
the Apache Incubator)
As an immediate start to having a tool to support
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 12:37 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org
wrote:
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 4:05 AM, Roman Shaposhnik ro...@shaposhnik.org
wrote:
...who else thinks the movement towards empowering
PPMCs and making IPMC very much like the board makes sense?...
How is that
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Andrew Purtell apurt...@apache.org wrote:
In fact, in my opinion it leads to the very unfortunate side effect of IPMC
feeling in need to justify why it exists by micromanaging podlings.
I've been through incubation as a mentor on Phoenix, Nifi, and
On Sun, Aug 2, 2015, at 10:05 PM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
I've been waiting for a bout a week for other to chime in, but
it seems that nobody has so I'll repeat my question as of
a week ago: what would be the effective way to change the
status quo around IPMC an make it more board like?
On 2015-08-03 09:37, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 4:05 AM, Roman Shaposhnik ro...@shaposhnik.org wrote:
...who else thinks the movement towards empowering
PPMCs and making IPMC very much like the board makes sense?...
How is that different from the status quo where a
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 4:05 AM, Roman Shaposhnik ro...@shaposhnik.org wrote:
...who else thinks the movement towards empowering
PPMCs and making IPMC very much like the board makes sense?...
How is that different from the status quo where a podling with active
mentors can have their releases
On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 7:18 PM, John D. Ament johndam...@apache.org wrote:
I wonder how much of the silence is a notion of I don't want to be
accountable if something goes wrong in this podling.
Right, but that same concern could be applied to every single TLP
and yet the board seems to do the
...@gmail.com [mailto:shaposh...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Roman
Shaposhnik
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2015 12:13 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the
Apache Incubator)
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Joe Brockmeier j
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Joe Brockmeier j...@zonker.net wrote:
On Sun, Aug 2, 2015, at 10:05 PM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
I've been waiting for a bout a week for other to chime in, but
it seems that nobody has so I'll repeat my question as of
a week ago: what would be the effective way
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 12:37 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 4:05 AM, Roman Shaposhnik ro...@shaposhnik.org wrote:
...who else thinks the movement towards empowering
PPMCs and making IPMC very much like the board makes sense?...
How is that
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 8:48 AM, Arvind Prabhakar arv...@apache.org wrote:
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 12:37 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org
wrote:
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 4:05 AM, Roman Shaposhnik ro...@shaposhnik.org
wrote:
...who else thinks the movement towards empowering
+1
-Original Message-
From: Marvin Humphrey [mailto:mar...@rectangular.com]
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2015 09:37
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the
Apache Incubator)
[ ... ]
It's not the central Incubator folks
On 2015-08-03 21:13, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
Yup. I believe this to be an unfortunate (at least from my standpoint)
but and extremely fair observation.
As far as I'm concerned the issue of RRs of IPMC is in a state of a
stalemate right now. We clearly have a everything's fine lets just
add
In fact, in my opinion it leads to the very unfortunate side effect of IPMC
feeling in need to justify why it exists by micromanaging podlings.
I've been through incubation as a mentor on Phoenix, Nifi, and now getting
up to speed on Trafodion, I have not seen micromanagement of podlings.
On 03.08.2015 18:36, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
It's not the central Incubator folks like our regular release
reviewers and report contributors who invent these extra criteria
Sorry but this has to be said: I see folks on this list inventing policy
(or rather, confusing opinion and policy) all the
[mailto:shaposh...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Roman
Shaposhnik
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2015 12:13 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the
Apache Incubator)
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Joe Brockmeier j...@zonker.net wrote:
On Sun
...@gmail.com [mailto:shaposh...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Roman
Shaposhnik
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2015 12:13 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the
Apache Incubator)
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Joe Brockmeier j
Nalley [mailto:da...@gnsa.us]
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 6:05 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the
Apache Incubator)
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Ross Gardler ross.gard...@microsoft.com
wrote:
The proposed need
@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from
the Apache Incubator)
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Ross Gardler
ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote:
The proposed need to announce release votes on the IPMC list is how
things were when
On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 7:05 PM, Roman Shaposhnik ro...@shaposhnik.org wrote:
what would be the effective way to change the
status quo around IPMC an make it more board like?
The Board works very hard to provide thorough review of the reports it
receives. While IPMC review of podling reports is
Hi,
About 40% of the last 100 threads on general@ is vote release... Cut that
away is a good start in reforming the Incubator…
IMO Which provides a valuable service in showing poddlings on how to make good
releases. Do we want to get rid of that?
Thanks,
Justin
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 4:27 AM, Roman Shaposhnik ro...@shaposhnik.org
wrote:
#2 The #1 goal is achieved via mentorship. In fact mentorship is
not even required
as the case of Zest (and hopeful Yetus soon) demonstrated.
#3 When mentorship is required IPMC entrusts the mentors to
On 26.07.2015 10:56, jan i wrote:
On 26 July 2015 at 10:40, Justin Mclean jus...@classsoftware.com wrote:
Hi,
About 40% of the last 100 threads on general@ is vote release... Cut
that
away is a good start in reforming the Incubator…
IMO Which provides a valuable service in showing
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 7:38 PM, Branko Čibej br...@apache.org wrote:
The only downside of this proposal is that it assumes that every podling
has at least three active (!) mentors.
No, I don't necessarily mean that you need 3 mentors either. One active
mentor would be fine with me. Empower
On 26 July 2015 at 10:40, Justin Mclean jus...@classsoftware.com wrote:
Hi,
About 40% of the last 100 threads on general@ is vote release... Cut
that
away is a good start in reforming the Incubator…
IMO Which provides a valuable service in showing poddlings on how to make
good releases.
: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the
Apache Incubator)
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 7:38 PM, Branko Čibej br...@apache.org wrote:
The only downside of this proposal is that it assumes that every podling
has at least three active (!) mentors.
No, I don't necessarily
On Sunday, July 26, 2015, Don Bosco Durai bo...@apache.org wrote:
My only concern is now the mentor(s) need to check everything before
approving. In my experience, during the early stages of the releases, lot
of the license, naming, release location, etc. related issues were
identified during
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 1:20 AM, Niclas Hedhman nic...@hedhman.org wrote:
About 40% of the last 100 threads on general@ is vote release...
Cut that away is a good start in reforming the Incubator…
Many of those vote threads are very high quality and valuable.
Successful vote threads are
I think my own experience as a mentor over recent years is useful here. I
thought I understood what was necessary for apache releases when, in fact, I
understood release requirements for releases like the ones I had previously
seen.
The wider by shepherds and by the general votes was a pain
My only concern is now the mentor(s) need to check everything before
approving. In my experience, during the early stages of the releases, lot
of the license, naming, release location, etc. related issues were
identified during the approval in the general@ list. Which were very
helpful to us.
On 07/26/2015 04:35 PM, jan i wrote:
unless we don't trust the mentors
It isn't a case of not trusting the mentors, but rather, the ease with
which something can be accidentally overlooked.
Rephrased. The mentor is too close to the project, to see all of the
errors in the project.
jonathon
...@gnsa.us
Sent: 7/26/2015 12:36 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.orgmailto:general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the
Apache Incubator)
Empower the Mentors to run the podlings, teach the newcomers and bring it
to TLP.
As a mentor
On 2015-07-26 10:56, jan i wrote:
No that is an important service, on the other hand I also agree that the
mentors should be guiding/running the podlings not general@
Maybe we can find some middle ground.
- Mentors run the podlings, can accept releases etc.
- Mentors decide when a podlng can
On 2015-07-27 01:20, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
I'd like to raise a somewhat orthogonal point. Mainly the fact that our
obsession with doing good work with podlings could, very well, be
obscuring a much more important issues. And given how limited
our resources of eyeballs looking at releases
David, I think we've been there before a few month ago.
In my view, you're articulating collective (IPMC) vs.
personal (mentors) responsibility.
IIRC, we came to be on different sides of that divide.
I'll repeat again what I said in that discussion: I like
the mentor responsibility model a LOT
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 01:38PM, Branko Čibej wrote:
On 26.07.2015 10:56, jan i wrote:
On 26 July 2015 at 10:40, Justin Mclean jus...@classsoftware.com wrote:
Hi,
About 40% of the last 100 threads on general@ is vote release... Cut
that
away is a good start in reforming the
Since I am relatively new to the Incubator (given that it turns 13 in
just 2½ month), I will ask a question that may have been answered in the
earlier years:
Have we given any thought to some sort of mentor rotation policy?
One could argue that what we especially lack right now is the
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 1:56 AM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote:
No that is an important service, on the other hand I also agree that the
mentors should be guiding/running the podlings not general@
Maybe we can find some middle ground.
- Mentors run the podlings, can accept releases etc.
-
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 9:50 AM, toki toki.kant...@gmail.com wrote:
On 07/26/2015 04:35 PM, jan i wrote:
unless we don't trust the mentors
It isn't a case of not trusting the mentors, but rather, the ease with
which something can be accidentally overlooked.
Rephrased. The mentor is too
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 3:57 PM, Daniel Gruno humbed...@apache.org wrote:
On 2015-07-26 10:56, jan i wrote:
No that is an important service, on the other hand I also agree that the
mentors should be guiding/running the podlings not general@
Maybe we can find some middle ground.
- Mentors
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Ross Gardler
ross.gard...@microsoft.com wrote:
The proposed need to announce release votes on the IPMC list is how things
were when the incubator was created. The need for IPMC to control the process
is another case of the IPMC over-reaching itself and in so
:36 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.orgmailto:general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the
Apache Incubator)
Empower the Mentors to run the podlings, teach the newcomers and bring it
to TLP.
As a mentor of podlings, I dislike the above
(yes, some changes
have been good, but it seems to me that many have not)
Ross
-Original Message-
From: Konstantin Boudnik [mailto:c...@apache.org]
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 5:15 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from
: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the
Apache Incubator)
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Ross Gardler ross.gard...@microsoft.com
wrote:
The proposed need to announce release votes on the IPMC list is how things
were when the incubator was created. The need for IPMC
Empower the Mentors to run the podlings, teach the newcomers and bring it
to TLP.
As a mentor of podlings, I dislike the above idea.
Mentors get busy, they miss things, sometimes big things. Sometimes
things that are obvious to an outsider are missed by mentors who don't
catch it. I've
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