Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
> On Dec 21, 2022, at 12:55 AM, Christofer Dutz > wrote: > > Hi all, > > I still think just because a resolution is added that it doesn’t mean the > board will accept it. > > Having barely 3 +1 votes also seems an indicator that the rest of the IPMC > doesn’t clearly believe Tuweni is ready for graduation. > The incubator is for projects to learn how to do things the Apache way and to > grow its community into a sustainable project. > I see that the first part seems to be done, but the second part is completely > missing. > > I also don’t agree that being in the incubator will keep anyone from > contributing, I even think that most people know that incubating projects are > usually the ones easiest to get involved in. > So I would like to bring the counter-argument to the table, that growing the > community might become harder, once Tuweni is a TLP. > > The problem I see is perfectly reflected by this: > https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors > > Has anyone besides you – Antoine – ever done a release? > Also did I have a look at your last release thread: > There you had exactly 3 +1 votes, however one of them was from “Danno Ferrin” > who seems to “only” be a Committer. > A PPMC +1 vote would have been required here, so technically this release > wasn’t ok. Because this release didn’t have enough votes, we moved it to the general incubator list where it was duly voted. > > I think this project should focus on building the community, having others be > the Release Manager for one or two releases and then to aim for graduation. > > Maybe I should make my opinion a bit more explicit by officially voting -1 > > So here goes: > > -1 binding > > Chris > > > From: Antoine Toulme > Date: Wednesday, 21. December 2022 at 07:02 > To: general > Subject: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > Folks, > > Thank you for your participation in the Apache Tuweni graduation vote. > > The results are as follows: > +1: 3 Antoine Toulme (binding), Larry Mccay (binding), Dave Fisher (binding) > +0: 0 > -1: 0 > > Thanks all! We will proceed to the next step of voting for a PMC chair and > drafting a resolution for the board. > > Cheers, > > Antoine > >> On Dec 20, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Antoine Toulme wrote: >> >> I’ve let the vote go on for a bit. I’d like to make sure we get a chance for >> final votes and comments and I will close it by tonight PT time. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Antoine >> >>> On Dec 19, 2022, at 6:45 AM, Josh Fischer wrote: >>> >>> To build on what Dave is saying (from my experience at least) is projects >>> will enter the incubator and they tend to focus on building new features on >>> top of new features. Instead of focusing on how they can transfer that deep >>> knowledge of the system to anyone who is willing to learn. >>> >>> Getting those people to feel comfortable stepping up can be a challenge. >>> Making new comers (whoever they are) feel welcome to ask questions and >>> contribute on mailing list discussion, prs, code contributions, etc is the >>> most important part of building a self-sustaining community. >>> >>> >>> I’ll get off my soapbox now. >>> >>> - Josh >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:40 AM Christofer Dutz >>> wrote: >>> Sorry for asking, but Dave, could you please explain that reply … admittedly I didn’t understand what you wanted to say (Guess I would consider it advanced English and I simply didn’t understand it). Chris From: Dave Fisher Date: Monday, 12. December 2022 at 06:19 To: general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow explicitly part of the incubator’s curriculum. That’s a separate discussion. Best, Dave Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 11, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Willem Jiang wrote: > > I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release checking. > But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still > need to pay lots of attention to community building. > > > Willem Jiang > > Twitter: willemjiang > Weibo: 姜宁willem > >> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:24 AM Antoine Toulme wrote: >> >> Hello folks, >> >> Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its incubation at Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the domain it applies to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has managed to create enough momentum to make regular releases and check off all incubation checks. >> Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and later as well. We will continue building and including folks. We have onboarded successfully multiple committers and have received contributions. I expect this trend
Re: DB2DOM
Thanks John for your interest in submitting your code to the ASF and building a project team to maintain and release it. You might want to read the Incubator Cookbook [1] to become acquainted with the processes we use. The Pekko Proposal [2] is an example of a project that was accepted to become an Incubator podling. Would you be able to share your source code with us so that we can have a look at it? All I found was a web site describing your tools at a high level [3]. Do you have anyone else that has contributed code in the past and who would be interested in continuing? One of the key features of an ASF project is building a community. Regards, PJ [1] https://incubator.apache.org/cookbook/ [2] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/PekkoProposal [3] https://db2dom.com/ On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 at 13:15, jcdale wrote: > > Greetings; > > Please see below. > > Let's start there. > > Who is interested in meeting up with me that might be interested in > incubating this project and helping scratch back some lost Java folks and > bringing in some sysadmin folks to Java who might currently prefer Python etc? > > Sincerely, > > John > > > > > > --- Original Message --- > On Wednesday, December 21st, 2022 at 3:39 AM, Mark Thomas > wrote: > > > > > > > > John, > > > > The way to bring a project to the ASF is through the incubator. Lots of > > useful information available at: > > > > https://incubator.apache.org/ > > > > general@incubator.apache.org is the place to ask any questions. > > > > Mark > > > > > > On 20/12/2022 13:25, jcdale wrote: > > > > > Hi Mark and Chris; > > > > > > Disclosure: I am on the list as jcdw...@gmail.com > > > > > > First off thanks for all the help through the years and all of your work > > > on Tomcat. > > > > > > I have a software doodad that I would like to consider putting forward > > > as an ASF project. > > > > > > Can I demo this for you and get your advice about how to proceed? I > > > have very limited time and resources and need help (it took me over a > > > decade to finally get the s/w to this point). > > > > > > I've attached my resume to help build some credibility (I found out last > > > week that we won the SD Congressional App Challenge again this year, > > > both apps were built on DB2DOM). Here is the 2022 winning entry: > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mNxGUkmCug=2s > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mNxGUkmCug=2s > > > > > > I'd like to see Java return to #1, and I think DB2DOM could do it. > > > > > > I believe the adoption curve would be very, very short, and may address > > > some of the reasons so many people jumped to Python (this is unfortunate > > > for Java, still a really great programming language with amazing > > > institutional knowledge stored-up with talented people like us). > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > John > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
I agree with Christofer Dutz. I expressed my concerns about the diversity of the community, mainly because the community highly dependent on single contributor(Antoine Toulme), I did not directly vote -1 because I think it's better for Tuweni could continue to build community in Incubator and continue to vote when grows diverse community. If it is necessary to vote now, I give my vote -1(binding). I still think it is a good way to build diverse community in the Incubator, because mentors and other IPMC members can give more guidences and help. Christofer Dutz 于2022年12月21日周三 16:55写道： > Hi all, > > I still think just because a resolution is added that it doesn’t mean the > board will accept it. > > Having barely 3 +1 votes also seems an indicator that the rest of the IPMC > doesn’t clearly believe Tuweni is ready for graduation. > The incubator is for projects to learn how to do things the Apache way and > to grow its community into a sustainable project. > I see that the first part seems to be done, but the second part is > completely missing. > > I also don’t agree that being in the incubator will keep anyone from > contributing, I even think that most people know that incubating projects > are usually the ones easiest to get involved in. > So I would like to bring the counter-argument to the table, that growing > the community might become harder, once Tuweni is a TLP. > > The problem I see is perfectly reflected by this: > https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors > > Has anyone besides you – Antoine – ever done a release? > Also did I have a look at your last release thread: > There you had exactly 3 +1 votes, however one of them was from “Danno > Ferrin” who seems to “only” be a Committer. > A PPMC +1 vote would have been required here, so technically this release > wasn’t ok. > > I think this project should focus on building the community, having others > be the Release Manager for one or two releases and then to aim for > graduation. > > Maybe I should make my opinion a bit more explicit by officially voting -1 > > So here goes: > > -1 binding > > Chris > > > From: Antoine Toulme > Date: Wednesday, 21. December 2022 at 07:02 > To: general > Subject: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > Folks, > > Thank you for your participation in the Apache Tuweni graduation vote. > > The results are as follows: > +1: 3 Antoine Toulme (binding), Larry Mccay (binding), Dave Fisher > (binding) > +0: 0 > -1: 0 > > Thanks all! We will proceed to the next step of voting for a PMC chair and > drafting a resolution for the board. > > Cheers, > > Antoine > > > On Dec 20, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Antoine Toulme wrote: > > > > I’ve let the vote go on for a bit. I’d like to make sure we get a chance > for final votes and comments and I will close it by tonight PT time. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Antoine > > > >> On Dec 19, 2022, at 6:45 AM, Josh Fischer wrote: > >> > >> To build on what Dave is saying (from my experience at least) is > projects > >> will enter the incubator and they tend to focus on building new > features on > >> top of new features. Instead of focusing on how they can transfer that > deep > >> knowledge of the system to anyone who is willing to learn. > >> > >> Getting those people to feel comfortable stepping up can be a challenge. > >> Making new comers (whoever they are) feel welcome to ask questions and > >> contribute on mailing list discussion, prs, code contributions, etc is > the > >> most important part of building a self-sustaining community. > >> > >> > >> I’ll get off my soapbox now. > >> > >> - Josh > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:40 AM Christofer Dutz < > christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Sorry for asking, > >>> > >>> but Dave, could you please explain that reply … admittedly I didn’t > >>> understand what you wanted to say > >>> (Guess I would consider it advanced English and I simply didn’t > understand > >>> it). > >>> > >>> Chris > >>> > >>> From: Dave Fisher > >>> Date: Monday, 12. December 2022 at 06:19 > >>> To: general@incubator.apache.org > >>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > >>> Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow > >>> explicitly part of the incubator’s curriculum. That’s a separate > discussion. > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> Dave > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > On Dec 11, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Willem Jiang > >>> wrote: > > I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release > >>> checking. > But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still > need to pay lots of attention to community building. > > > Willem Jiang > > Twitter: willemjiang > Weibo: 姜宁willem > > > On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:24 AM Antoine Toulme > >>> wrote: > > > > Hello folks, > > > > Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its > >>> incubation at Apache. The path of this
Re: DB2DOM
Greetings; Please see below. Let's start there. Who is interested in meeting up with me that might be interested in incubating this project and helping scratch back some lost Java folks and bringing in some sysadmin folks to Java who might currently prefer Python etc? Sincerely, John --- Original Message --- On Wednesday, December 21st, 2022 at 3:39 AM, Mark Thomas wrote: > > > John, > > The way to bring a project to the ASF is through the incubator. Lots of > useful information available at: > > https://incubator.apache.org/ > > general@incubator.apache.org is the place to ask any questions. > > Mark > > > On 20/12/2022 13:25, jcdale wrote: > > > Hi Mark and Chris; > > > > Disclosure: I am on the list as jcdw...@gmail.com > > > > First off thanks for all the help through the years and all of your work > > on Tomcat. > > > > I have a software doodad that I would like to consider putting forward > > as an ASF project. > > > > Can I demo this for you and get your advice about how to proceed? I > > have very limited time and resources and need help (it took me over a > > decade to finally get the s/w to this point). > > > > I've attached my resume to help build some credibility (I found out last > > week that we won the SD Congressional App Challenge again this year, > > both apps were built on DB2DOM). Here is the 2022 winning entry: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mNxGUkmCug=2s > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mNxGUkmCug=2s > > > > I'd like to see Java return to #1, and I think DB2DOM could do it. > > > > I believe the adoption curve would be very, very short, and may address > > some of the reasons so many people jumped to Python (this is unfortunate > > for Java, still a really great programming language with amazing > > institutional knowledge stored-up with talented people like us). > > > > Sincerely, > > > > John - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
Hi all, I still think just because a resolution is added that it doesn’t mean the board will accept it. Having barely 3 +1 votes also seems an indicator that the rest of the IPMC doesn’t clearly believe Tuweni is ready for graduation. The incubator is for projects to learn how to do things the Apache way and to grow its community into a sustainable project. I see that the first part seems to be done, but the second part is completely missing. I also don’t agree that being in the incubator will keep anyone from contributing, I even think that most people know that incubating projects are usually the ones easiest to get involved in. So I would like to bring the counter-argument to the table, that growing the community might become harder, once Tuweni is a TLP. The problem I see is perfectly reflected by this: https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors Has anyone besides you – Antoine – ever done a release? Also did I have a look at your last release thread: There you had exactly 3 +1 votes, however one of them was from “Danno Ferrin” who seems to “only” be a Committer. A PPMC +1 vote would have been required here, so technically this release wasn’t ok. I think this project should focus on building the community, having others be the Release Manager for one or two releases and then to aim for graduation. Maybe I should make my opinion a bit more explicit by officially voting -1 So here goes: -1 binding Chris From: Antoine Toulme Date: Wednesday, 21. December 2022 at 07:02 To: general Subject: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation Folks, Thank you for your participation in the Apache Tuweni graduation vote. The results are as follows: +1: 3 Antoine Toulme (binding), Larry Mccay (binding), Dave Fisher (binding) +0: 0 -1: 0 Thanks all! We will proceed to the next step of voting for a PMC chair and drafting a resolution for the board. Cheers, Antoine > On Dec 20, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Antoine Toulme wrote: > > I’ve let the vote go on for a bit. I’d like to make sure we get a chance for > final votes and comments and I will close it by tonight PT time. > > Cheers, > > Antoine > >> On Dec 19, 2022, at 6:45 AM, Josh Fischer wrote: >> >> To build on what Dave is saying (from my experience at least) is projects >> will enter the incubator and they tend to focus on building new features on >> top of new features. Instead of focusing on how they can transfer that deep >> knowledge of the system to anyone who is willing to learn. >> >> Getting those people to feel comfortable stepping up can be a challenge. >> Making new comers (whoever they are) feel welcome to ask questions and >> contribute on mailing list discussion, prs, code contributions, etc is the >> most important part of building a self-sustaining community. >> >> >> I’ll get off my soapbox now. >> >> - Josh >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:40 AM Christofer Dutz >> wrote: >> >>> Sorry for asking, >>> >>> but Dave, could you please explain that reply … admittedly I didn’t >>> understand what you wanted to say >>> (Guess I would consider it advanced English and I simply didn’t understand >>> it). >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> From: Dave Fisher >>> Date: Monday, 12. December 2022 at 06:19 >>> To: general@incubator.apache.org >>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation >>> Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow >>> explicitly part of the incubator’s curriculum. That’s a separate discussion. >>> >>> Best, >>> Dave >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> On Dec 11, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Willem Jiang >>> wrote: I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release >>> checking. But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still need to pay lots of attention to community building. Willem Jiang Twitter: willemjiang Weibo: 姜宁willem > On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:24 AM Antoine Toulme >>> wrote: > > Hello folks, > > Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its >>> incubation at Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the >>> domain it applies to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has >>> managed to create enough momentum to make regular releases and check off >>> all incubation checks. > Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and >>> later as well. We will continue building and including folks. We have >>> onboarded successfully multiple committers and have received contributions. >>> I expect this trend to continue and mature. > > The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is >>> the incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and >>> slows down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and move >>> away from the project. > > The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, from >>> what I know. We will need to continue
