Hi all, I still think just because a resolution is added that it doesn’t mean the board will accept it.
Having barely 3 +1 votes also seems an indicator that the rest of the IPMC doesn’t clearly believe Tuweni is ready for graduation. The incubator is for projects to learn how to do things the Apache way and to grow its community into a sustainable project. I see that the first part seems to be done, but the second part is completely missing. I also don’t agree that being in the incubator will keep anyone from contributing, I even think that most people know that incubating projects are usually the ones easiest to get involved in. So I would like to bring the counter-argument to the table, that growing the community might become harder, once Tuweni is a TLP. The problem I see is perfectly reflected by this: https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors Has anyone besides you – Antoine – ever done a release? Also did I have a look at your last release thread: There you had exactly 3 +1 votes, however one of them was from “Danno Ferrin” who seems to “only” be a Committer. A PPMC +1 vote would have been required here, so technically this release wasn’t ok. I think this project should focus on building the community, having others be the Release Manager for one or two releases and then to aim for graduation. Maybe I should make my opinion a bit more explicit by officially voting -1 So here goes: -1 binding Chris From: Antoine Toulme <anto...@toulme.name> Date: Wednesday, 21. December 2022 at 07:02 To: general <general@incubator.apache.org> Subject: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation Folks, Thank you for your participation in the Apache Tuweni graduation vote. The results are as follows: +1: 3 Antoine Toulme (binding), Larry Mccay (binding), Dave Fisher (binding) +0: 0 -1: 0 Thanks all! We will proceed to the next step of voting for a PMC chair and drafting a resolution for the board. Cheers, Antoine > On Dec 20, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Antoine Toulme <anto...@toulme.name> wrote: > > I’ve let the vote go on for a bit. I’d like to make sure we get a chance for > final votes and comments and I will close it by tonight PT time. > > Cheers, > > Antoine > >> On Dec 19, 2022, at 6:45 AM, Josh Fischer <j...@joshfischer.io> wrote: >> >> To build on what Dave is saying (from my experience at least) is projects >> will enter the incubator and they tend to focus on building new features on >> top of new features. Instead of focusing on how they can transfer that deep >> knowledge of the system to anyone who is willing to learn. >> >> Getting those people to feel comfortable stepping up can be a challenge. >> Making new comers (whoever they are) feel welcome to ask questions and >> contribute on mailing list discussion, prs, code contributions, etc is the >> most important part of building a self-sustaining community. >> >> >> I’ll get off my soapbox now. >> >> - Josh >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:40 AM Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> >> wrote: >> >>> Sorry for asking, >>> >>> but Dave, could you please explain that reply … admittedly I didn’t >>> understand what you wanted to say >>> (Guess I would consider it advanced English and I simply didn’t understand >>> it). >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> From: Dave Fisher <wave4d...@comcast.net> >>> Date: Monday, 12. December 2022 at 06:19 >>> To: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org> >>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation >>> Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow >>> explicitly part of the incubator’s curriculum. That’s a separate discussion. >>> >>> Best, >>> Dave >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Dec 11, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release >>> checking. >>>> But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still >>>> need to pay lots of attention to community building. >>>> >>>> >>>> Willem Jiang >>>> >>>> Twitter: willemjiang >>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem >>>> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:24 AM Antoine Toulme <anto...@toulme.name> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello folks, >>>>> >>>>> Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its >>> incubation at Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the >>> domain it applies to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has >>> managed to create enough momentum to make regular releases and check off >>> all incubation checks. >>>>> Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and >>> later as well. We will continue building and including folks. We have >>> onboarded successfully multiple committers and have received contributions. >>> I expect this trend to continue and mature. >>>>> >>>>> The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is >>> the incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and >>> slows down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and move >>> away from the project. >>>>> >>>>> The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, from >>> what I know. We will need to continue to build our image and presence to >>> attract contributors on our own. >>>>> >>>>> The project mentors have been nothing short of fantastic. They have >>> been helpful in maturing the project. In my opinion, we are using their >>> precious time when they should be engaged in helping other projects of the >>> incubator. >>>>> >>>>> With this, I want to thank the incubator. We had a great experience >>> building with you all. I personally believe we should free the incubator's >>> time and attention to concentrate on other projects. I also believe the >>> project is mature enough to function outside of the incubator. >>>>> >>>>> I vote +1 to graduate Tuweni from the incubator. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Antoine >>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 7, 2022, at 3:37 PM, larry mccay <lmc...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> We have also recently seen long term incubating projects with >>> considerable >>>>>> adoption falter. >>>>>> I consider the fact that they did not graduate early enough a >>> contributing >>>>>> factor here. >>>>>> >>>>>> Nothing wrong with incubation but staying in the incubator and >>> encountering >>>>>> attrition is different from TLP >>>>>> with some churn with new folks coming into an official TLP project >>> while >>>>>> others can fall off in a healthy way. >>>>>> >>>>>> Again, having the community test and release 14 separate releases >>>>>> demonstrates contributors in the community >>>>>> even if they aren't all materially contributing code. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 3:45 AM Christofer Dutz < >>> christofer.d...@c-ware.de> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And in the last few months the ASF has sadly seen enough cases, in >>> which >>>>>>> even big projects suffered from the lack of diversity. >>>>>>> So, I would also consider this to be a blocker. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Community building isn’t something that happens or comes for free. >>>>>>> It’s actually hard work, but it needs to be done. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just my opinion on this topic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, 7. December 2022 at 02:59 >>>>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation >>>>>>> It looks like we need a dedicated community leader[1] to build a >>>>>>> diverse community (just borrow a pattern from InnerSource Common[2]). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> " Communication takes up a significant percentage of a community >>>>>>> leader's daily work. At the same time, he or she will likely also have >>>>>>> to spearhead the initial development, too. In the face of limited >>>>>>> capacity, inexperienced leaders will tend to focus on development and >>>>>>> neglect communication. The barrier for potential contributors to make >>>>>>> their first contribution and to commit to the community will be much >>>>>>> higher if the community leader is hard to reach or is slow to respond >>>>>>> to feedback and questions for lack of time." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] >>>>>>> >>> https://github.com/InnerSourceCommons/InnerSourcePatterns/blob/main/patterns/2-structured/dedicated-community-leader.md#forces >>>>>>> [2]https://innersourcecommons.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Willem Jiang >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Twitter: willemjiang >>>>>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 9:51 AM larry mccay <lmc...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm not so sure that I see this as a blocker for graduation. >>>>>>>> There was enough consensus and testing to spin and publish 14 >>> releases. >>>>>>>> There has been healthy conversation about this very topic among the >>>>>>> mentors >>>>>>>> and contributors on the private list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The nature of this project is that the consumption of these >>> libraries are >>>>>>>> going to get less traction while in incubation and a community may >>> grow >>>>>>>> larger as a TLP as confidence is instilled by that status. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Tuweni community has demonstrated the ability to publish releases >>>>>>>> within that Apache Way and guidelines, has welcomed new contributors, >>>>>>> etc. >>>>>>>> The long term success will require a larger active community but I >>> don't >>>>>>>> think that needs to block graduation as the incubation goals have >>> been >>>>>>> met. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My 2 cents. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 7:41 PM Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I agree with Gang Li. The Bus factor[1] of this project is >>> relatively >>>>>>> high. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Willem Jiang >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Twitter: willemjiang >>>>>>>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:06 PM li gang <lgcar...@apache.org> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I checked the contributions of the Tuweni project[1],the traffic of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> mail list d...@tuweni.apache.org[2] and the KEYS[3]. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It looks like the project is mainly maintained by Antoine Toulme >>>>>>> self, >>>>>>>>>> I have a concern this is not comply with the diversity. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [1]https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors >>>>>>>>>> [2]https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@tuweni.apache.org >>>>>>>>>> [3]https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/tuweni/KEYS >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Antoine Toulme <toulm...@apache.org> 于2022年12月5日周一 15:14写道： >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Apache Incubator Community and IPMC members, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> We discussed the graduation for Tuweni in the Apache Incubator >>>>>>>>>>> Community [4], where no issues were raised and positive replies >>>>>>> were >>>>>>>>>>> received. >>>>>>>>>>> After having the graduation discussion in the Tuweni community >>>>>>> [1], we >>>>>>>>>>> have passed the vote within Tuweni community [2] and the vote >>>>>>> result >>>>>>>>>>> was published [3]. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I would like to start this voting thread to request graduating >>>>>>> Apache >>>>>>>>>>> Tuweni(incubating) from Apache Incubator as a Top Level Project. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Please provide your vote accordingly: >>>>>>>>>>> [ ] +1 Yes, I support Tuweni project to graduate from the Apache >>>>>>>>> Incubator. >>>>>>>>>>> [ ] +0 No opinion. >>>>>>>>>>> [ ] -1 No, the Tuweni project is not ready to graduate, because... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for participating in the vote. This vote will stay open >>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>> least 72 hours. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Here is an overview of the Apache Tuweni(incubating) to help with >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> vote. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *Community* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ● The PPMC is active, with PMC members voting for graduation along >>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> mentors. >>>>>>>>>>> ● 6 new committers were added, bringing the total number of >>>>>>> committers >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> 14 from 12 different >>>>>>>>>>> organizations. >>>>>>>>>>> ● The number of contributors is now 25 and growing. >>>>>>>>>>> ● The dev@Tuweni mailing list currently has 33 subscribers [4]. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *Project* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ● Apache Tuweni (incubating) is a set of libraries and other tools >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> aid >>>>>>>>>>> development of blockchain and other decentralized software in >>>>>>> Java and >>>>>>>>>>> other JVM languages. It includes a low-level bytes library, >>>>>>>>> serialization >>>>>>>>>>> and deserialization codecs (e.g. RLP), various cryptography >>>>>>> functions >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> primitives, and lots of other helpful utilities. Tuweni is >>>>>>> developed >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> JDK 11 or higher. >>>>>>>>>>> ● Project maturity model and incubation status is detailed in [5] >>>>>>>>>>> ● Tuweni has been incubating [5] since 2019-02-25 for over 45 >>>>>>>>>>> months. >>>>>>>>>>> ● Tuweni community released a total of 14 Apache releases [6]. >>>>>>>>>>> ● 331 pull requests created closed [7]. >>>>>>>>>>> ● 76 issues created, and 46 issues closed [8]. >>>>>>>>>>> ● The release cadence is about 3 months. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *Brand, License, and Copyright* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ● We submitted an application for the brand [9] and it has been >>>>>>>>>>> reviewed and approved. >>>>>>>>>>> ● Tuweni community maintains project code on GitHub and all >>> modules >>>>>>>>>>> code is under Apache 2.0 license. We have reviewed all the >>>>>>>>>>> dependencies and ensured they do not bring any license issues >>> [10]. >>>>>>>>>>> All the status files, license headers, and copyright are up to >>>>>>> date. >>>>>>>>>>> ● Tuweni official website [11] is compliant with Apache Foundation >>>>>>>>>>> requirements [12]. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [1] >>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/z3flpmqcss21xc8vmtwqqfs961p4g9t5 >>>>>>>>>>> [2] >>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/c04cmvfwh1wt2mxmc9zo89o6bnhm2xqk >>>>>>>>>>> [3] >>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/8m4lq3k1v93m1k482syj7kn1ldb62665 >>>>>>>>>>> [4] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?d...@tuweni.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>> [5] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/tuweni.html >>>>>>>>>>> [6] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/releases >>>>>>>>>>> [7] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/pulls >>>>>>>>>>> [8] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/issues >>>>>>>>>>> [9] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH-167 >>>>>>>>>>> [10] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/blob/main/LICENSE >>>>>>>>>>> [11] https://tuweni.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>> [12] https://whimsy.apache.org/pods/project/tuweni >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: >>> general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>> Best Regards >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> DolphinScheduler PMC >>>>>>>>>> Gang Li 李岗 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> lgcar...@apache.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>> >> -- >> Sent from A Mobile Device > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
