> On Dec 21, 2022, at 12:55 AM, Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de>
> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I still think just because a resolution is added that it doesn’t mean the
> board will accept it.
>
> Having barely 3 +1 votes also seems an indicator that the rest of the IPMC
> doesn’t clearly believe Tuweni is ready for graduation.
> The incubator is for projects to learn how to do things the Apache way and to
> grow its community into a sustainable project.
> I see that the first part seems to be done, but the second part is completely
> missing.
>
> I also don’t agree that being in the incubator will keep anyone from
> contributing, I even think that most people know that incubating projects are
> usually the ones easiest to get involved in.
> So I would like to bring the counter-argument to the table, that growing the
> community might become harder, once Tuweni is a TLP.
>
> The problem I see is perfectly reflected by this:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors
>
> Has anyone besides you – Antoine – ever done a release?
> Also did I have a look at your last release thread:
> There you had exactly 3 +1 votes, however one of them was from “Danno Ferrin”
> who seems to “only” be a Committer.
> A PPMC +1 vote would have been required here, so technically this release
> wasn’t ok.
Because this release didn’t have enough votes, we moved it to the general
incubator list where it was duly voted.
>
> I think this project should focus on building the community, having others be
> the Release Manager for one or two releases and then to aim for graduation.
>
> Maybe I should make my opinion a bit more explicit by officially voting -1
>
> So here goes:
>
> -1 binding
>
> Chris
>
>
> From: Antoine Toulme <anto...@toulme.name>
> Date: Wednesday, 21. December 2022 at 07:02
> To: general <general@incubator.apache.org>
> Subject: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
> Folks,
>
> Thank you for your participation in the Apache Tuweni graduation vote.
>
> The results are as follows:
> +1: 3 Antoine Toulme (binding), Larry Mccay (binding), Dave Fisher (binding)
> +0: 0
> -1: 0
>
> Thanks all! We will proceed to the next step of voting for a PMC chair and
> drafting a resolution for the board.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Antoine
>
>> On Dec 20, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Antoine Toulme <anto...@toulme.name> wrote:
>>
>> I’ve let the vote go on for a bit. I’d like to make sure we get a chance for
>> final votes and comments and I will close it by tonight PT time.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Antoine
>>
>>> On Dec 19, 2022, at 6:45 AM, Josh Fischer <j...@joshfischer.io> wrote:
>>>
>>> To build on what Dave is saying (from my experience at least) is projects
>>> will enter the incubator and they tend to focus on building new features on
>>> top of new features. Instead of focusing on how they can transfer that deep
>>> knowledge of the system to anyone who is willing to learn.
>>>
>>> Getting those people to feel comfortable stepping up can be a challenge.
>>> Making new comers (whoever they are) feel welcome to ask questions and
>>> contribute on mailing list discussion, prs, code contributions, etc is the
>>> most important part of building a self-sustaining community.
>>>
>>>
>>> I’ll get off my soapbox now.
>>>
>>> - Josh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:40 AM Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sorry for asking,
>>>>
>>>> but Dave, could you please explain that reply … admittedly I didn’t
>>>> understand what you wanted to say
>>>> (Guess I would consider it advanced English and I simply didn’t understand
>>>> it).
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> From: Dave Fisher <wave4d...@comcast.net>
>>>> Date: Monday, 12. December 2022 at 06:19
>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
>>>> Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow
>>>> explicitly part of the incubator’s curriculum. That’s a separate
>>>> discussion.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 11, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release
>>>> checking.
>>>>> But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still
>>>>> need to pay lots of attention to community building.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Willem Jiang
>>>>>
>>>>> Twitter: willemjiang
>>>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:24 AM Antoine Toulme <anto...@toulme.name>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello folks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its
>>>> incubation at Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the
>>>> domain it applies to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has
>>>> managed to create enough momentum to make regular releases and check off
>>>> all incubation checks.
>>>>>> Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and
>>>> later as well. We will continue building and including folks. We have
>>>> onboarded successfully multiple committers and have received contributions.
>>>> I expect this trend to continue and mature.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is
>>>> the incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and
>>>> slows down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and move
>>>> away from the project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, from
>>>> what I know. We will need to continue to build our image and presence to
>>>> attract contributors on our own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The project mentors have been nothing short of fantastic. They have
>>>> been helpful in maturing the project. In my opinion, we are using their
>>>> precious time when they should be engaged in helping other projects of the
>>>> incubator.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With this, I want to thank the incubator. We had a great experience
>>>> building with you all. I personally believe we should free the incubator's
>>>> time and attention to concentrate on other projects. I also believe the
>>>> project is mature enough to function outside of the incubator.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I vote +1 to graduate Tuweni from the incubator.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Antoine
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Dec 7, 2022, at 3:37 PM, larry mccay <lmc...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have also recently seen long term incubating projects with
>>>> considerable
>>>>>>> adoption falter.
>>>>>>> I consider the fact that they did not graduate early enough a
>>>> contributing
>>>>>>> factor here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nothing wrong with incubation but staying in the incubator and
>>>> encountering
>>>>>>> attrition is different from TLP
>>>>>>> with some churn with new folks coming into an official TLP project
>>>> while
>>>>>>> others can fall off in a healthy way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, having the community test and release 14 separate releases
>>>>>>> demonstrates contributors in the community
>>>>>>> even if they aren't all materially contributing code.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 3:45 AM Christofer Dutz <
>>>> christofer.d...@c-ware.de>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And in the last few months the ASF has sadly seen enough cases, in
>>>> which
>>>>>>>> even big projects suffered from the lack of diversity.
>>>>>>>> So, I would also consider this to be a blocker.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Community building isn’t something that happens or comes for free.
>>>>>>>> It’s actually hard work, but it needs to be done.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just my opinion on this topic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, 7. December 2022 at 02:59
>>>>>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
>>>>>>>> It looks like we need a dedicated community leader[1] to build a
>>>>>>>> diverse community (just borrow a pattern from InnerSource Common[2]).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> " Communication takes up a significant percentage of a community
>>>>>>>> leader's daily work. At the same time, he or she will likely also have
>>>>>>>> to spearhead the initial development, too. In the face of limited
>>>>>>>> capacity, inexperienced leaders will tend to focus on development and
>>>>>>>> neglect communication. The barrier for potential contributors to make
>>>>>>>> their first contribution and to commit to the community will be much
>>>>>>>> higher if the community leader is hard to reach or is slow to respond
>>>>>>>> to feedback and questions for lack of time."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/InnerSourceCommons/InnerSourcePatterns/blob/main/patterns/2-structured/dedicated-community-leader.md#forces
>>>>>>>> [2]https://innersourcecommons.org/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Willem Jiang
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Twitter: willemjiang
>>>>>>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 9:51 AM larry mccay <lmc...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not so sure that I see this as a blocker for graduation.
>>>>>>>>> There was enough consensus and testing to spin and publish 14
>>>> releases.
>>>>>>>>> There has been healthy conversation about this very topic among the
>>>>>>>> mentors
>>>>>>>>> and contributors on the private list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The nature of this project is that the consumption of these
>>>> libraries are
>>>>>>>>> going to get less traction while in incubation and a community may
>>>> grow
>>>>>>>>> larger as a TLP as confidence is instilled by that status.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Tuweni community has demonstrated the ability to publish releases
>>>>>>>>> within that Apache Way and guidelines, has welcomed new contributors,
>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>> The long term success will require a larger active community but I
>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> think that needs to block graduation as the incubation goals have
>>>> been
>>>>>>>> met.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My 2 cents.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 7:41 PM Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Gang Li. The Bus factor[1] of this project is
>>>> relatively
>>>>>>>> high.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Willem Jiang
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Twitter: willemjiang
>>>>>>>>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:06 PM li gang <lgcar...@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I checked the contributions of the Tuweni project[1],the traffic of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> mail list d...@tuweni.apache.org[2] and the KEYS[3].
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It looks like the project is mainly maintained by Antoine Toulme
>>>>>>>> self,
>>>>>>>>>>> I have a concern this is not comply with the diversity.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [1]https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors
>>>>>>>>>>> [2]https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@tuweni.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> [3]https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/tuweni/KEYS
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Antoine Toulme <toulm...@apache.org> 于2022年12月5日周一 15:14写道：
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Apache Incubator Community and IPMC members,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We discussed the graduation for Tuweni in the Apache Incubator
>>>>>>>>>>>> Community [4], where no issues were raised and positive replies
>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>> received.
>>>>>>>>>>>> After having the graduation discussion in the Tuweni community
>>>>>>>> [1], we
>>>>>>>>>>>> have passed the vote within Tuweni community [2] and the vote
>>>>>>>> result
>>>>>>>>>>>> was published [3].
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to start this voting thread to request graduating
>>>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuweni(incubating) from Apache Incubator as a Top Level Project.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Please provide your vote accordingly:
>>>>>>>>>>>> [ ] +1 Yes, I support Tuweni project to graduate from the Apache
>>>>>>>>>> Incubator.
>>>>>>>>>>>> [ ] +0 No opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>>> [ ] -1 No, the Tuweni project is not ready to graduate, because...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for participating in the vote. This vote will stay open
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>> least 72 hours.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is an overview of the Apache Tuweni(incubating) to help with
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> vote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Community*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ● The PPMC is active, with PMC members voting for graduation along
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> mentors.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ● 6 new committers were added, bringing the total number of
>>>>>>>> committers
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> 14 from 12 different
>>>>>>>>>>>> organizations.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ● The number of contributors is now 25 and growing.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ● The dev@Tuweni mailing list currently has 33 subscribers [4].
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Project*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ● Apache Tuweni (incubating) is a set of libraries and other tools
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> aid
>>>>>>>>>>>> development of blockchain and other decentralized software in
>>>>>>>> Java and
>>>>>>>>>>>> other JVM languages. It includes a low-level bytes library,
>>>>>>>>>> serialization
>>>>>>>>>>>> and deserialization codecs (e.g. RLP), various cryptography
>>>>>>>> functions
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> primitives, and lots of other helpful utilities. Tuweni is
>>>>>>>> developed
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> JDK 11 or higher.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ● Project maturity model and incubation status is detailed in [5]
>>>>>>>>>>>> ● Tuweni has been incubating [5] since 2019-02-25 for over 45
>>>>>>>>>>>> months.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ● Tuweni community released a total of 14 Apache releases [6].
>>>>>>>>>>>> ● 331 pull requests created closed [7].
>>>>>>>>>>>> ● 76 issues created, and 46 issues closed [8].
>>>>>>>>>>>> ● The release cadence is about 3 months.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Brand, License, and Copyright*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ● We submitted an application for the brand [9] and it has been
>>>>>>>>>>>> reviewed and approved.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ● Tuweni community maintains project code on GitHub and all
>>>> modules
>>>>>>>>>>>> code is under Apache 2.0 license. We have reviewed all the
>>>>>>>>>>>> dependencies and ensured they do not bring any license issues
>>>> [10].
>>>>>>>>>>>> All the status files, license headers, and copyright are up to
>>>>>>>> date.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ● Tuweni official website [11] is compliant with Apache Foundation
>>>>>>>>>>>> requirements [12].
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/z3flpmqcss21xc8vmtwqqfs961p4g9t5
>>>>>>>>>>>> [2]
>>>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/c04cmvfwh1wt2mxmc9zo89o6bnhm2xqk
>>>>>>>>>>>> [3]
>>>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/8m4lq3k1v93m1k482syj7kn1ldb62665
>>>>>>>>>>>> [4] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?d...@tuweni.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> [5] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/tuweni.html
>>>>>>>>>>>> [6] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/releases
>>>>>>>>>>>> [7] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/pulls
>>>>>>>>>>>> [8] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/issues
>>>>>>>>>>>> [9] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH-167
>>>>>>>>>>>> [10] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/blob/main/LICENSE
>>>>>>>>>>>> [11] https://tuweni.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> [12] https://whimsy.apache.org/pods/project/tuweni
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>>>> general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> DolphinScheduler PMC
>>>>>>>>>>> Gang Li 李岗
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> lgcar...@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>> --
>>> Sent from A Mobile Device
>>
>>
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