Re: Creating a podli...@incubator.apache.org mailing list

[P. Taylor Goetz]

+1 for moderation.

-Taylor

> On Apr 6, 2017, at 5:21 AM, John D. Ament  wrote:
> 
> I agree to both points.  I've already started on the script, based on the
> existing python scripts we use to generate our reports.
> 
> How do others feel about the moderation?  Its only for "official"
> communication so..
> 
> John
> 
>> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:03 PM Greg Stein  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi John, et al,
>> 
>> From an Infrastructure position, I have several points w.r.t to this
>> request, and its associated Jira ticket [1] :
>> 
>> * The spam potential is large for this, so I suggest it gets treated like
>> announce@apache, which requires sending from @apache and forced moderation
>> of *all* messages. I hope we can have a mailing list to use those features
>> (a simple fan-out alias won't do it), with subscribers being other lists.
>> We'll note in the ticket if a problem arises.
>> 
>> * As I've raised elsewhere, Infrastructure work/costs have a direct
>> correlation to podling entry, and podling graduation. Adjusting the
>> podlings@ fan-out at entry/graduation is heaping on. more work. I've
>> spoken
>> with John on HipChat, and asked that the IPMC provide a script to fetch and
>> print the desired set of target dev@ lists (I don't want Infra to guess;
>> y'all need a script to define the set). We'll incorporate that into a daily
>> cron job. Whether the script uses LDAP or pulls podling.xml ... *shrug*
>> 
>> If there are any questions/concerns, then please continue here or in the
>> ticket.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Greg Stein
>> Infrastructure Administrator, ASF
>> 
>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-13823
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:52 PM, John D. Ament 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> All,
>>> 
>>> Before I go ahead with it, wanted to see if others had any opinions.  I'm
>>> planning to ask infra to create a podlings@i.a.o mailing list, which
>> would
>>> go to all podlings dev@ list.  There may be some scenarios where we need
>>> to
>>> communicate out to all podlings.  For instance, the logo change and how
>> it
>>> impacts the podlings.
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>> 

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

Re: Creating a podli...@incubator.apache.org mailing list

[John D. Ament]

I agree to both points.  I've already started on the script, based on the
existing python scripts we use to generate our reports.

How do others feel about the moderation?  Its only for "official"
communication so..

John

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:03 PM Greg Stein  wrote:

> Hi John, et al,
>
> From an Infrastructure position, I have several points w.r.t to this
> request, and its associated Jira ticket [1] :
>
> * The spam potential is large for this, so I suggest it gets treated like
> announce@apache, which requires sending from @apache and forced moderation
> of *all* messages. I hope we can have a mailing list to use those features
> (a simple fan-out alias won't do it), with subscribers being other lists.
> We'll note in the ticket if a problem arises.
>
> * As I've raised elsewhere, Infrastructure work/costs have a direct
> correlation to podling entry, and podling graduation. Adjusting the
> podlings@ fan-out at entry/graduation is heaping on. more work. I've
> spoken
> with John on HipChat, and asked that the IPMC provide a script to fetch and
> print the desired set of target dev@ lists (I don't want Infra to guess;
> y'all need a script to define the set). We'll incorporate that into a daily
> cron job. Whether the script uses LDAP or pulls podling.xml ... *shrug*
>
> If there are any questions/concerns, then please continue here or in the
> ticket.
>
> Cheers,
> Greg Stein
> Infrastructure Administrator, ASF
>
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-13823
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:52 PM, John D. Ament 
> wrote:
>
> > All,
> >
> > Before I go ahead with it, wanted to see if others had any opinions.  I'm
> > planning to ask infra to create a podlings@i.a.o mailing list, which
> would
> > go to all podlings dev@ list.  There may be some scenarios where we need
> > to
> > communicate out to all podlings.  For instance, the logo change and how
> it
> > impacts the podlings.
> >
> > John
> >
>

Re: Creating a podli...@incubator.apache.org mailing list

[Greg Stein]

Hi John, et al,

>From an Infrastructure position, I have several points w.r.t to this
request, and its associated Jira ticket [1] :

* The spam potential is large for this, so I suggest it gets treated like
announce@apache, which requires sending from @apache and forced moderation
of *all* messages. I hope we can have a mailing list to use those features
(a simple fan-out alias won't do it), with subscribers being other lists.
We'll note in the ticket if a problem arises.

* As I've raised elsewhere, Infrastructure work/costs have a direct
correlation to podling entry, and podling graduation. Adjusting the
podlings@ fan-out at entry/graduation is heaping on. more work. I've spoken
with John on HipChat, and asked that the IPMC provide a script to fetch and
print the desired set of target dev@ lists (I don't want Infra to guess;
y'all need a script to define the set). We'll incorporate that into a daily
cron job. Whether the script uses LDAP or pulls podling.xml ... *shrug*

If there are any questions/concerns, then please continue here or in the
ticket.

Cheers,
Greg Stein
Infrastructure Administrator, ASF

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-13823


On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:52 PM, John D. Ament 
wrote:

> All,
>
> Before I go ahead with it, wanted to see if others had any opinions.  I'm
> planning to ask infra to create a podlings@i.a.o mailing list, which would
> go to all podlings dev@ list.  There may be some scenarios where we need
> to
> communicate out to all podlings.  For instance, the logo change and how it
> impacts the podlings.
>
> John
>

Re: Creating a podli...@incubator.apache.org mailing list

[John D. Ament]

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 11:56 AM Dave Fisher  wrote:

>
> > On Mar 20, 2017, at 6:45 PM, Niclas Hedhman  wrote:
> >
> > +1 for a podlings@ alias.
> >
> > But what could you possibly want with a podlings-private@ ?  We are
> > expected to keep private to a minimum, typically involving individuals or
> > security issues, and I fail to see how that can apply to 50 or so very
> > disperse projects, that changes over time. So I am -1 on that, until I
> hear
> > some reasonable justification.
>
> I agree. Private matters will tend to be on a case by case basis. In the
> rare case where an all private email to all podlings must go out then each
> podling can be addressed one at a time via cut and paste.
>
>
Agreed.  Maybe to put it another way, I'm not against the idea of creating
a podlings-private style alias, but don't see a strong use case for it.


> >
> > The pmcs@ alias is IMHO a bad alias and should be changed to go to dev@.
> > Way back in time, we had p...@foo.apache.org and the pmcs@ came out of
> that
> > naming. BUT, we later recognized that pmc@ was being overused. The name
> > invited that overuse and we changed it to private@ to signal its intent,
> > but pmcs@ was left behind…
>
> This is not an Incubator mailing list and therefore this is Off Topic.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > Niclas
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 4:17 AM, John D. Ament 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:55 PM Luciano Resende 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:00 PM John D. Ament 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
>  All,
> 
>  Before I go ahead with it, wanted to see if others had any opinions.
> >> I'm
>  planning to ask infra to create a podlings@i.a.o mailing list, which
> >>> would
>  go to all podlings dev@ list.  There may be some scenarios where we
> >> need
>  to
>  communicate out to all podlings.  For instance, the logo change and
> how
> >>> it
>  impacts the podlings.
> 
>  John
> 
> >>>
> >>> This would be more like an alias, similar to @PMCs right ? Also, in the
> >>> past, some of these communications would go to podling private (e.g.
> Gsoc
> >>> info) where there was a request for the podling pmc to discuss this
> >>> appropriately in their dev lists? That might still be a viable
> approach.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Yes, I believe that's how infra would implement it.  It isn't meant to
> >> replace general@ but instead allow us a convenient way to email blast
> all
> >> podlings.
> >>
> >> As I was typing the email, I thought about private lists.  I wouldn't
> mind
> >> a podlings-private@i.a.o as well.
> >>
> >>
> >>> BTW, podlings, particular podling mentors should (MUST) be following
> all
> >>> pertinent general@ discussions.
> >>> --
> >>> Sent from my Mobile device
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> > http://polygene.apache.org  - New Energy for
> Java
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: Creating a podli...@incubator.apache.org mailing list

[Dave Fisher]

> On Mar 20, 2017, at 6:45 PM, Niclas Hedhman  wrote:
> 
> +1 for a podlings@ alias.
> 
> But what could you possibly want with a podlings-private@ ?  We are
> expected to keep private to a minimum, typically involving individuals or
> security issues, and I fail to see how that can apply to 50 or so very
> disperse projects, that changes over time. So I am -1 on that, until I hear
> some reasonable justification.

I agree. Private matters will tend to be on a case by case basis. In the rare 
case where an all private email to all podlings must go out then each podling 
can be addressed one at a time via cut and paste.

> 
> The pmcs@ alias is IMHO a bad alias and should be changed to go to dev@.
> Way back in time, we had p...@foo.apache.org and the pmcs@ came out of that
> naming. BUT, we later recognized that pmc@ was being overused. The name
> invited that overuse and we changed it to private@ to signal its intent,
> but pmcs@ was left behind…

This is not an Incubator mailing list and therefore this is Off Topic.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> 
> Cheers
> Niclas
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 4:17 AM, John D. Ament 
> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:55 PM Luciano Resende 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:00 PM John D. Ament 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 All,
 
 Before I go ahead with it, wanted to see if others had any opinions.
>> I'm
 planning to ask infra to create a podlings@i.a.o mailing list, which
>>> would
 go to all podlings dev@ list.  There may be some scenarios where we
>> need
 to
 communicate out to all podlings.  For instance, the logo change and how
>>> it
 impacts the podlings.
 
 John
 
>>> 
>>> This would be more like an alias, similar to @PMCs right ? Also, in the
>>> past, some of these communications would go to podling private (e.g. Gsoc
>>> info) where there was a request for the podling pmc to discuss this
>>> appropriately in their dev lists? That might still be a viable approach.
>>> 
>>> 
>> Yes, I believe that's how infra would implement it.  It isn't meant to
>> replace general@ but instead allow us a convenient way to email blast all
>> podlings.
>> 
>> As I was typing the email, I thought about private lists.  I wouldn't mind
>> a podlings-private@i.a.o as well.
>> 
>> 
>>> BTW, podlings, particular podling mentors should (MUST) be following all
>>> pertinent general@ discussions.
>>> --
>>> Sent from my Mobile device
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> http://polygene.apache.org  - New Energy for Java


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

Re: Creating a podli...@incubator.apache.org mailing list

[Niclas Hedhman]

+1 for a podlings@ alias.

But what could you possibly want with a podlings-private@ ?  We are
expected to keep private to a minimum, typically involving individuals or
security issues, and I fail to see how that can apply to 50 or so very
disperse projects, that changes over time. So I am -1 on that, until I hear
some reasonable justification.

The pmcs@ alias is IMHO a bad alias and should be changed to go to dev@.
Way back in time, we had p...@foo.apache.org and the pmcs@ came out of that
naming. BUT, we later recognized that pmc@ was being overused. The name
invited that overuse and we changed it to private@ to signal its intent,
but pmcs@ was left behind...


Cheers
Niclas


On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 4:17 AM, John D. Ament 
wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:55 PM Luciano Resende 
> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:00 PM John D. Ament 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > Before I go ahead with it, wanted to see if others had any opinions.
> I'm
> > > planning to ask infra to create a podlings@i.a.o mailing list, which
> > would
> > > go to all podlings dev@ list.  There may be some scenarios where we
> need
> > > to
> > > communicate out to all podlings.  For instance, the logo change and how
> > it
> > > impacts the podlings.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> >
> > This would be more like an alias, similar to @PMCs right ? Also, in the
> > past, some of these communications would go to podling private (e.g. Gsoc
> > info) where there was a request for the podling pmc to discuss this
> > appropriately in their dev lists? That might still be a viable approach.
> >
> >
> Yes, I believe that's how infra would implement it.  It isn't meant to
> replace general@ but instead allow us a convenient way to email blast all
> podlings.
>
> As I was typing the email, I thought about private lists.  I wouldn't mind
> a podlings-private@i.a.o as well.
>
>
> > BTW, podlings, particular podling mentors should (MUST) be following all
> > pertinent general@ discussions.
> > --
> > Sent from my Mobile device
> >
>



-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org  - New Energy for Java

Re: Creating a podli...@incubator.apache.org mailing list

[P. Taylor Goetz]

+1 for both.

-Taylor

> On Mar 20, 2017, at 4:17 PM, John D. Ament  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:55 PM Luciano Resende  >
> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:00 PM John D. Ament 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> All,
>>> 
>>> Before I go ahead with it, wanted to see if others had any opinions.  I'm
>>> planning to ask infra to create a podlings@i.a.o mailing list, which
>> would
>>> go to all podlings dev@ list.  There may be some scenarios where we need
>>> to
>>> communicate out to all podlings.  For instance, the logo change and how
>> it
>>> impacts the podlings.
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>> 
>> This would be more like an alias, similar to @PMCs right ? Also, in the
>> past, some of these communications would go to podling private (e.g. Gsoc
>> info) where there was a request for the podling pmc to discuss this
>> appropriately in their dev lists? That might still be a viable approach.
>> 
>> 
> Yes, I believe that's how infra would implement it.  It isn't meant to
> replace general@ but instead allow us a convenient way to email blast all
> podlings.
> 
> As I was typing the email, I thought about private lists.  I wouldn't mind
> a podlings-private@i.a.o  as well.
> 
> 
>> BTW, podlings, particular podling mentors should (MUST) be following all
>> pertinent general@ discussions.
>> --
>> Sent from my Mobile device

Re: Creating a podli...@incubator.apache.org mailing list

[John D. Ament]

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:55 PM Luciano Resende 
wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:00 PM John D. Ament 
> wrote:
>
> > All,
> >
> > Before I go ahead with it, wanted to see if others had any opinions.  I'm
> > planning to ask infra to create a podlings@i.a.o mailing list, which
> would
> > go to all podlings dev@ list.  There may be some scenarios where we need
> > to
> > communicate out to all podlings.  For instance, the logo change and how
> it
> > impacts the podlings.
> >
> > John
> >
>
> This would be more like an alias, similar to @PMCs right ? Also, in the
> past, some of these communications would go to podling private (e.g. Gsoc
> info) where there was a request for the podling pmc to discuss this
> appropriately in their dev lists? That might still be a viable approach.
>
>
Yes, I believe that's how infra would implement it.  It isn't meant to
replace general@ but instead allow us a convenient way to email blast all
podlings.

As I was typing the email, I thought about private lists.  I wouldn't mind
a podlings-private@i.a.o as well.


> BTW, podlings, particular podling mentors should (MUST) be following all
> pertinent general@ discussions.
> --
> Sent from my Mobile device
>

Re: Creating a podli...@incubator.apache.org mailing list

[Luciano Resende]

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:00 PM John D. Ament 
wrote:

> All,
>
> Before I go ahead with it, wanted to see if others had any opinions.  I'm
> planning to ask infra to create a podlings@i.a.o mailing list, which would
> go to all podlings dev@ list.  There may be some scenarios where we need
> to
> communicate out to all podlings.  For instance, the logo change and how it
> impacts the podlings.
>
> John
>

This would be more like an alias, similar to @PMCs right ? Also, in the
past, some of these communications would go to podling private (e.g. Gsoc
info) where there was a request for the podling pmc to discuss this
appropriately in their dev lists? That might still be a viable approach.

BTW, podlings, particular podling mentors should (MUST) be following all
pertinent general@ discussions.
-- 
Sent from my Mobile device

Re: Creating a podli...@incubator.apache.org mailing list

[Josh Elser]

+1

John D. Ament wrote:

All,

Before I go ahead with it, wanted to see if others had any opinions.  I'm
planning to ask infra to create a podlings@i.a.o mailing list, which would
go to all podlings dev@ list.  There may be some scenarios where we need to
communicate out to all podlings.  For instance, the logo change and how it
impacts the podlings.

John



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

Re: Creating a podli...@incubator.apache.org mailing list

[Julian Hyde]

Yes, but let’s continue to strongly encourage PPMC members to subscribe to 
general@i.a.o .  I think that they learn a huge amount 
about the release process, and in the Apache Way in general, by hearing other 
podlings go through the same process. I would hope that the traffic on the new 
list would be minimal.

Julian


> On Mar 20, 2017, at 11:52 AM, John D. Ament  wrote:
> 
> All,
> 
> Before I go ahead with it, wanted to see if others had any opinions.  I'm
> planning to ask infra to create a podlings@i.a.o mailing list, which would
> go to all podlings dev@ list.  There may be some scenarios where we need to
> communicate out to all podlings.  For instance, the logo change and how it
> impacts the podlings.
> 
> John

Creating a podli...@incubator.apache.org mailing list

[John D. Ament]

All,

Before I go ahead with it, wanted to see if others had any opinions.  I'm
planning to ask infra to create a podlings@i.a.o mailing list, which would
go to all podlings dev@ list.  There may be some scenarios where we need to
communicate out to all podlings.  For instance, the logo change and how it
impacts the podlings.

John