Re: [site] Friday removals
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:15:59 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday I plan to do the following to the site: * Remove jon.html + images * Remove love.html * Remove idiot.html * Remove os.html * Remove methodology.html * Remove jakarta-site-*.html Very little, if anything links to them from within the site. I've no clue if other parts of the sites link to them. I'll put a redirect in for jakarta-site-* to README.txt, but all of the rest will just start doing 404's. +0 In the meantime, I'll start work on my ideas for a new download page. +1 I'd like to see a more concise presentation of the releases section - e.g. a table. And it would be nice if the XML source could be changed to make it easier to maintain the entries - at present there's a lot of repeated stuff. -1's, grumbles, ideas, etc :) Same as before, each item has to be -1'd for me to not do it on Friday. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Translations of Jakarta
Hi Henri, My current thoughts are that the best way for translation sites to continue are much along the lines that they currently do. Largely independent communities who are helping to spread the Apache/Jakarta brand. We would ensure that there is a liaison to the Apache/Jakarta community (for example I would put your name/email down somewhere as the liaison to the JaJakarta group); we would get the ASF legal people to write something simple giving permission to 'use the feather' and the name 'jakarta' provided a timely response to requests; and we'd link to your site from ours. I need to pitch this idea to the pmc/board etc, but it seems reasonable. Could I ask you to do that? If you need any information from us, please feel free to let us know. TIA :) Best regards, -- Shinobu -- Shinobu Kawai Yoshida [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
i'm not really sure there's any good solution to this one. the downside of ex-jakarta is that it's inaccurate: logging isn't really ex-jakarta since it contains more than log4j. i wonder whether we could fit in every apache project and just label it Apache Projects... - robert On 9 Jan 2005, at 00:42, Henri Yandell wrote: At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that used to be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently Graduated, but neither name has won fans. Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that it involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a noun. Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these. Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things don't have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge. So, any opinions? Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday night. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
That's the bit I'm trying to avoid. When a new TLP turns up, we have to modify our site. Which we're just not in the loop for. Something moving out of Jakarta, we're completely in the loop for and can catch it, we just don't know what to call it. OJB is a theoretical problem, it's now db-ojb. Log4j is the same, now logging-log4j. We've not really had a case where it was a huge problem; log4j is the mainstay of logging and ojb was barely in Jakarta, but still. Problem. Hen On Wed, 12 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote: i'm not really sure there's any good solution to this one. the downside of ex-jakarta is that it's inaccurate: logging isn't really ex-jakarta since it contains more than log4j. i wonder whether we could fit in every apache project and just label it Apache Projects... - robert On 9 Jan 2005, at 00:42, Henri Yandell wrote: At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that used to be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently Graduated, but neither name has won fans. Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that it involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a noun. Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these. Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things don't have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge. So, any opinions? Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday night. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Friday removals
i'd like to add some (creative) redirects for those pages On 12 Jan 2005, at 04:15, Henri Yandell wrote: On Friday I plan to do the following to the site: * Remove jon.html + images * Remove love.html * Remove idiot.html these were all associated with jon scott stevens (and the early years of jakarta). i'll find some suitable redirects. * Remove os.html redirect to who we are * Remove methodology.html redirect to www.apache.org/dev * Remove jakarta-site-*.html (henri will redirect to README) Very little, if anything links to them from within the site. I've no clue if other parts of the sites link to them. a number of these are pretty old pages and may well be linked from outside. i dislike 404's so i'm willing to add the above redirects (and will do unless anyone objects)... - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
As a lurker who's been watching this conversation I have a basic question - Do most visitors care about whether a project is graduated or related? If a new user comes from an up-to-date link (or book/article), they won't even be looking here. If they see an out-of-date reference in to the jakarta site, usually it'll be to a direct URL (e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/ant) which should just forward to the new URL. I suspect only a few people will be searching on the Jakarta home page for ant, etc. So why not just a simple prominent sentence Can't find what you're looking for? Check the list of related projects at http://www.apache.org;. Cheers, WILL - Original Message - From: robert burrell donkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List general@jakarta.apache.org Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project i'm not really sure there's any good solution to this one. the downside of ex-jakarta is that it's inaccurate: logging isn't really ex-jakarta since it contains more than log4j. i wonder whether we could fit in every apache project and just label it Apache Projects... - robert On 9 Jan 2005, at 00:42, Henri Yandell wrote: At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that used to be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently Graduated, but neither name has won fans. Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that it involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a noun. Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these. Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things don't have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge. So, any opinions? Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday night. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
On 12 Jan 2005, at 20:59, Henri Yandell wrote: That's the bit I'm trying to avoid. When a new TLP turns up, we have to modify our site. Which we're just not in the loop for. new TLPs are relatively infrequent events and require (i believe) a board resolution. (i'd also hope that they'd be announced to a public announcement list but this seems not to happen as often as it should.) i suppose that this one is your call: if you'd be able to find time to update the site every time you hear official, then it'd be feasible. - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005, Will Glass-Husain wrote: As a lurker who's been watching this conversation I have a basic question - Do most visitors care about whether a project is graduated or related? Not as such. What they care about is that they can't find projects that have been graduated. What I care about is that I don't want to list every related project on our nav as it'll get out of control :) If a new user comes from an up-to-date link (or book/article), they won't even be looking here. If they see an out-of-date reference in to the jakarta site, usually it'll be to a direct URL (e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/ant) which should just forward to the new URL. I suspect only a few people will be searching on the Jakarta home page for ant, etc. So why not just a simple prominent sentence Can't find what you're looking for? Check the list of related projects at http://www.apache.org;. Yep, tis an option. The welcome to has such a sentence, though people are unlikely to read the welcome message if they think they know what they are looking for. I can't think of a way to get such a sentence into the navbar :) Could just have a link at the bottom to 'Other ASF Projects', but even that would look daft. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
Hate to push us around in a circle, but what exactly was so bad about Related? Phil -Original Message- From: Henri Yandell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed 1/12/2005 1:59 PM To: Jakarta General List Cc: Subject: Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project That's the bit I'm trying to avoid. When a new TLP turns up, we have to modify our site. Which we're just not in the loop for. Something moving out of Jakarta, we're completely in the loop for and can catch it, we just don't know what to call it. OJB is a theoretical problem, it's now db-ojb. Log4j is the same, now logging-log4j. We've not really had a case where it was a huge problem; log4j is the mainstay of logging and ojb was barely in Jakarta, but still. Problem. Hen On Wed, 12 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote: i'm not really sure there's any good solution to this one. the downside of ex-jakarta is that it's inaccurate: logging isn't really ex-jakarta since it contains more than log4j. i wonder whether we could fit in every apache project and just label it Apache Projects... - robert On 9 Jan 2005, at 00:42, Henri Yandell wrote: At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that used to be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently Graduated, but neither name has won fans. Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that it involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a noun. Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these. Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things don't have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge. So, any opinions? Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday night. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Removing things
On 12 Jan 2005, at 04:01, Henri Yandell wrote: On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, Henri Yandell wrote: 2) Removal of the elsewhere news section. Point redirects to news/index.html. NOT DONE. i'd really prefer to leave the actual pages and the links from news/index.html. they come to an end at an good point (the end of a year) and are now very widely indexed and some highly ranked. in other words, they achieved their aim which was to all people to easily find accurate information about ASF projects and sub-projects. i'm happy to stop adding any more since www.apachenews.org is more comprehensive and better maintained but for a lot of the information in these pages, jakarta news was (at that time) the primary news source. - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Removing things
On 11 Jan 2005, at 19:40, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: Alas ... I would be very sad if my two-and-a-half-year efforts could *not* be appreciated. i (for one) certainly appreciate your efforts. anyone who's visited www.apachenews.org or watched the cvs commits on jakarta-site2 can't fail to acknowledge the hard, unsung leg work you've put in. - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
Depends. What's your criteria for Related? Mladen's new APR-Java is definitely related to Jakarta :) To be more pedantic, httpd is related to Tomcat, but I'd not suggest that. In my view, Related actually means [EMAIL PROTECTED], and we would do better to have an actual page on that (http://jakarta.apache.org/site/java_at_apache.html), I just didn't want to go live with such a page quite yet. Hen On Wed, 12 Jan 2005, Phil Steitz wrote: Hate to push us around in a circle, but what exactly was so bad about Related? Phil -Original Message- From: Henri Yandell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed 1/12/2005 1:59 PM To: Jakarta General List Cc: Subject: Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project That's the bit I'm trying to avoid. When a new TLP turns up, we have to modify our site. Which we're just not in the loop for. Something moving out of Jakarta, we're completely in the loop for and can catch it, we just don't know what to call it. OJB is a theoretical problem, it's now db-ojb. Log4j is the same, now logging-log4j. We've not really had a case where it was a huge problem; log4j is the mainstay of logging and ojb was barely in Jakarta, but still. Problem. Hen On Wed, 12 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote: i'm not really sure there's any good solution to this one. the downside of ex-jakarta is that it's inaccurate: logging isn't really ex-jakarta since it contains more than log4j. i wonder whether we could fit in every apache project and just label it Apache Projects... - robert On 9 Jan 2005, at 00:42, Henri Yandell wrote: At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that used to be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently Graduated, but neither name has won fans. Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that it involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a noun. Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these. Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things don't have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge. So, any opinions? Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday night. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote: On 12 Jan 2005, at 20:59, Henri Yandell wrote: That's the bit I'm trying to avoid. When a new TLP turns up, we have to modify our site. Which we're just not in the loop for. new TLPs are relatively infrequent events and require (i believe) a board resolution. (i'd also hope that they'd be announced to a public announcement list but this seems not to happen as often as it should.) i suppose that this one is your call: if you'd be able to find time to update the site every time you hear official, then it'd be feasible. Well, community call, not mine. I'm just being a loud, active member of the community atm. My view was that we should maximise the Jakarta parts of the site and minimise the stuff that should be at the ASF level. With Related, I think we should develop a [EMAIL PROTECTED] page/subsite and then look to promote it up to the ASF level. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
I am with this view. Its time to remove other TLP projects from Jakarta, whether or not they once had some link to Jakarta. Stephen - Original Message - Do most visitors care about whether a project is graduated or related? If a new user comes from an up-to-date link (or book/article), they won't even be looking here. If they see an out-of-date reference in to the jakarta site, usually it'll be to a direct URL (e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/ant) which should just forward to the new URL. I suspect only a few people will be searching on the Jakarta home page for ant, etc. So why not just a simple prominent sentence Can't find what you're looking for? Check the list of related projects at http://www.apache.org;. Cheers, WILL - Original Message - From: robert burrell donkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List general@jakarta.apache.org Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project i'm not really sure there's any good solution to this one. the downside of ex-jakarta is that it's inaccurate: logging isn't really ex-jakarta since it contains more than log4j. i wonder whether we could fit in every apache project and just label it Apache Projects... - robert On 9 Jan 2005, at 00:42, Henri Yandell wrote: At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that used to be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently Graduated, but neither name has won fans. Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that it involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a noun. Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these. Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things don't have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge. So, any opinions? Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday night. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
