Re: VOTE: Tomcat -> TLP

[Remy Maucherat]

Ian F. Darwin wrote:
   [ X ] +1 Vote in support
Rémy
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Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

[Remy Maucherat]

Jim Jagielski wrote:
On Mar 21, 2005, at 10:24 AM, Remy Maucherat wrote:
Great, so you manage to sneak by an assertion that a line have been 
crossed here. Cool debate ;)

My intent was not to make an accusation but rather a simple statement
that any issue we are talking about is not unique or particular
to any one company. Yes, I think the SD tagline is a line that was
crossed.
Geez... I go out of my way to make this NOT a JBoss thing, to
and it falls on deaf ears. How about reading the rest of the
Email instead of one line that you took the wrong way?
There's still some murkiness in the branding. I sent an email, and it 
seems our PR person was told by Brian that Tomcat should be called 
"Apache Jakarta Tomcat" (which we actually used a while ago, but not 
anymore).

At this point, how about simply kicking me out and ending the problems 
faster ? Just one quick vote on board@ and any future issues disappear 
magically.
Oh foo. No one is remotely suggesting that.
If the issue is to reappear every time there's an article/PR/etc, then 
there's no point.

Rémy
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Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

[Remy Maucherat]

Jim Jagielski wrote:
That would be kind of impossible to do, logically :)
But I would agree that other companies have occasionally
crossed lines that should not have been crossed, both
companies "associated" with ASF projects and external
companies that have no ties or links at all. In those
cases we (the ASF and/or the projects affected) have
requested retractions/corrections/removals/etc...
And as I've mentioned before, I don't think there's
anyone here who has not been misquoted or mis-represented
(by journalists or over-eager PR types) to the extent
where they were embarassed-to-angry about it. I *know*
it's a struggle. I'm not trivializing it in the least.
Great, so you manage to sneak by an assertion that a line have been 
crossed here. Cool debate ;)
The small mistake made on our wesite has been made by the entire Java 
industry. The person who wrote the page (it was not me) just made the 
same mistake everyone else did, period. Nobody is actually confused by 
it (since they were already confused), and there are no issue about 
confusion with another product.

At this point, how about simply kicking me out and ending the problems 
faster ? Just one quick vote on board@ and any future issues disappear 
magically.

I will not repent/apologize/atone/change my behavior, etc, nor ask my 
company to repent/apologize/atone/change its behavior, since I think 
they made all the necessary adjustments already. One thing is certain: I 
will not bother wasting my time to defend my company or myself in this 
kind of ridiculous thread. I already sent a couple emails with simple 
explanations when it was requested.

My personal view on the ASF is that I should do "more code, less 
politics", which seems to bring more value. As a result, I am at the 
mercy of the politician gang ... Feels like real life, though ;)

Rémy
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Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

[Remy Maucherat]

Jim Jagielski wrote:
On Mar 20, 2005, at 7:20 PM, Bill Barker wrote:
And, yet, all of the complaints about the article have been from 
people that aren't involved with Tomcat development ;-).
I think that's an unfair statement... does that fact diminish the
accuracy of what anyone is saying? I would also wager that
if it had been any other company with any other ASF project,
there would have been just the same discussion.
Cool :)
What if I, on the opposite, contend that if it had been any other 
company with any other ASF project, nobody would have bothered ?

Can you prove me wrong ?
Rémy
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Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

[Remy Maucherat]

Henri Yandell wrote:
Due to the timeliness of this, I plan to send it Sunday night. Given 
that we're on a weekend, I doubt it will be read until Monday.

Any opinions?
I am definitely contributing to Tomcat as part of my employment at 
JBoss. I am not contributing on my own free time to Tomcat as an 
individual at the moment, and (as far as I can remember, as it was a 
while ago ...) have submitted a company CLA reflecting that 
(http://www.apache.org/licenses/#clas). Anyway, it is obvious Apache has 
the notion of company contributions. Stating otherwise is wrong, and 
does not match the legal documents the ASF uses.

I think continuing with the current attitude would only lead my company 
to reevaluate its involvement in ASF projects, and I could not really 
blame them if they did. Of course, this may be what some people here 
seek (hopefully, it is not and it's just my paranoia at work).

Rémy
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Re: [VOTE] [site] New download pages

[Remy Maucherat]

Henri Yandell wrote:
I'd like to go ahead and move to my suggested new download pages:
http://jakarta.apache.org/~bayard/jakarta/site/downloads/downloads.html
[X] +1
[ ] -1
It's very good.
Rémy
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Re: [VOTE] Updating PMC bylaws

[Remy Maucherat]

[X] +1 - let's do it
Rémy
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Re: Adding project version to bugzilla

[Remy Maucherat]

Shapira, Yoav wrote:
Hi,
Please remind me what I need to do / whom I need to ask that a new
version (e.g. 5.0.26 and 5.0.27 for tomcat) be added to the list in
Bugzilla's "Version" field?  Thanks,
 

I don't remember anymore who's the bugzilla admin. I can edit versions, 
but got that a few years ago.

Rémy
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Re: Source files in distribution ?

[Remy Maucherat]

> I noticed some projects distribute separate 'dist' and 'source' packages,
> and some include the source in the dist package as well.
>
> In some cases the 'source' included with the dist doesn't include
> build.xml and the auxiliary files.
>
> I remember many discussions on 'guideliness' for jakarta distributions,
> was this discussed and is there any good document on how a distribution
> should look like ?
>
> Also, I remember discussions on a centralised cvs repository with all the
> binary jars that are redistributable. Did it get -1 or what is needed
> to get such a thing ?

Things like the 'download' target in TC 4 are more elegant IMO (except of
course there's a problem building commons-dbcp on most platforms).

Remy


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[ANNOUCEMENT] Apache Tomcat 4.1.3 Beta

[Remy Maucherat]

Apache Tomcat 4.1.3 Beta, the first beta release of the 4.1.x release cycle,
is now available.

Over Tomcat 4.0.x, Tomcat 4.1.x includes the following major new features:
* JMX based administration features
* JSP and Struts based administration web application
* New HTTP/1.1 connector
* New AJP 1.3 connector
* Rewritten Jasper JSP page compiler
* Performance and memory efficiency improvements
* Enhanced manager application support for integration with development
tools.
* Custom Ant tasks to interact with the manager application directly
  from build.xml scripts.
* Many other miscanellous improvements

Major changes over 4.1.2 include:
* Rewritten SSI servlet
* Ant based Jasper compiler
* Many administration webapp fixes
* Many other miscanellous fixes (see release notes for the complete list)

Downloads (source and binaries):
http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/release/v4.1.3-beta/

Remy


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Job postings ?

[Remy Maucherat]

Hi,

Just wondering if posting Tomcat-specific job offers on the list is
acceptable, or if there is another place I could post that too (the
rationale would be to be able to hire someone with extensive Tomcat
knowledge, and even better someone already involved with the community).
Since there's now a "Vendor" page on the Jakarta website, maybe I could add
a "Job Listings" page :)

Comments ?

Remy


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Re: JakartaOne: The Gathering

[Remy Maucherat]

> Hi,
> Pictures of the gathering is ready at:
> http://www.netpotlet.com/party/jakarta/JakartaNight2002.html
> 
> I'm so sorry I couldn't understand all of your names.
> Please tell me, and I'll fix this page.
> 
> These pictures' size is 0.15 times of the original.
> To get original images, click each one.

Nice pictures :)

Remy


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Re: JCP Program Chair responds to Apache Software Foundation (fwd)

[Remy Maucherat]

> What we must do is make sure that all the libraries implementing JCP
> specs that we decide to use do get and pass their TCKs.
>
> That includes openJMX for tomcat, probably others ( openJMX is probably
> the most important for most server side projects ).

Yes indeed. The biggest problem with the agreement is that it is not
retroactive, and I don't see JMX in the "retroactive" list. Is the JMX TCK
going to be available anyway ?

BTW, OpenJMX = MX4J now.

Remy


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Re: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache

[Remy Maucherat]

> After some thinking, I'm going to accept the nomination, even
> if I don't quite believe jakarta needs 'management', 'committee' or
> any other function besides 'jakarta commiter'.

Lol. Sellout !
You're joining the establishment now !
;-)

I think I'll vote for you :)

Remy


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Jakarta-Meeting

[Remy Maucherat]

> I wonder how people would feel about moving the actual PMC business to
> another list, like Jakarta-Meeting. It's obvious that we need a General
> list for open discussions, but I believe that it would be appropriate to
> have a public list focussed on the business of the PMC, being oversight
> of the Jakarta codebase and its Web site.
>
> I bring this up now since I would like to know how the people nominated
> as candidates in the PMC elections feel about this.

Does this mean you're not interested in my opinion, as I haven't been
nominated ? ;-)

+1 if it's a public list (anyone can subscribe)
-1 if it's a private list

Remy


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Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

[Remy Maucherat]

> Hey all,
>
> I just wanted to say that I'm not going to accept my Jakarta PMC
nomination
> and do not want to be included in the voting for the next election.
>
> I have been involved with Java Apache/Jakarta since Sept 1996 and I think
> that it is time for me to move on from being politically responsible for
> this group. Honestly, I'm jaded and burned out on it all.

Your fireball made it look like you had a lot of extra energy left ;-)
Anyway, thanks for all the work.

> That said, I recently signed a 10 year lease on a prime event space in
> downtown San Francisco and I am moving towards spending more time being a
> big time night club owner than working on Jakarta. More info:
>  (p.s. that site is built with Anakia )

Another famous OSS guy did that also (http://www.jwz.org/).
Are you guys starting a trend ? :)

> I also just released Scarab 1.0b1 and am focused primarily on making
Scarab
> the best issue tracking tool around. Expect to see more great developments
> on this project. It is by far, one of the best designed, largest and most
> complex pieces of software that I have ever had the pleasure of helping
> develop. It will be around for a very long time and will eventually put
> Bugzilla out of business. More info: 

Scarab 1.0 at last !!! :)
I think we can start checking it out to replace Bugzilla with it eventually.
I'm sure Justy will volunteer to start playing with it on nagoya.

Remy


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Re: Site update

[Remy Maucherat]

> On 10/27/01 4:27 PM, "Remy Maucherat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > When doing site updates, please don't forget to update before starting
> > editing. For example, Berin reverted many changes to the news and binary
> > pages.
> >
>
> Shouldn't the cvs commit caught that on the merge?

Somehow, it didn't.

You can see the diff between 1.93 and 1.94 of the binary index page:

RCS file: /home/cvs/jakarta-site2/xdocs/site/binindex.xml,v
retrieving revision 1.93
retrieving revision 1.94
diff -r1.93 -r1.94
73,75c73,76
< http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-ant/release/v1.4.1/bin/";>An
t 1.4.1
< http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-avalon/release/framework/v4
.0">Avalon Framework 4.0
< http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-avalon/release/excalibur/v4
.0">Avalon Excalibur 4.0
---
> http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-ant/release/v1.4/bin/";>Ant
1.4
> http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-avalon/release/framework/v4
.0/">Avalon Framework 4.0
> http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-avalon/release/excalibur/v4
.0/">Avalon Excalibur 4.0
> http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-avalon/release/logkit/v1.0/
">Avalon LogKit 1.0
87,88c88
< http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-tomcat/release/v3.3/bin/";>T
omcat 3.3
< http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/release/v4.0.1/";
>Tomcat 4.0.1
---
> http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/release/v4.0/";>T
omcat 4.0
98c98
< http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-avalon/release/logkit/lates
t/">Avalon LogKit 1.0 beta 5
---
> http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-ant/release/v1.4.1b1/";>Ant
1.4.1 beta 1
100,101c100,102
< http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-lucene/release/v1.2-rc2/";>L
ucene 1.2 Release Candidate 2
< http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-slide/release/1.0/";>Slide
1.0.15 Beta
---
> http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-lucene/release/v1.2-rc1/";>L
ucene 1.2 Release Candidate 1
> http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-tomcat/release/v3.3-rc1/bin
/">Tomcat 3.3
> Release Candidate 1
118d118
< http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-slide/nightly/";>Slide

So the affected links include Tomcat, Ant, Slide, Lucene.

Same happened to the news page.

Remy


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Site update

[Remy Maucherat]

Hi,

When doing site updates, please don't forget to update before starting
editing. For example, Berin reverted many changes to the news and binary
pages.

Remy


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Re: [proposal] Jakarta Deprecation Policy

[Remy Maucherat]

> Well, there haven't been many flame wars around here recently, so let me
> start one. I seem to be good at that. :-)
>
> What I propose is that we take this document (or one similar to it) and
> migrate it up to the overall Jakarta Project instead of just being a
Turbine
> policy and get all the projects to "sign" their name on it.
>
> 
>
> I think it would go a long way towards raising awareness of the need to
> deprecate things (thanks to Sam starting this with Gump) as well as make
the
> corporate types feel more comfortable with regards to depending on "that
> Open Source Software stuff"...
>
> Comments?

+1.

My only comment : you should always be allowed any API change when you
change the major revision number, without a deprecation phase (for example,
I think it's ok if version 2.0, immediately following version 1.62, has a
different API).

Remy


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Jakarta FAQ

[Remy Maucherat]

Hi,

I'd like to get an account on the Jakarta FAQ.
I read what is there :
http://jakarta.apache.org:8080/jyve-faq/Turbine/screen/DisplayProjects
I talked with Alex, but apparently the account activation failed, and I
couldn't get in touch with him since.
Could one of the roots help me out ?
My login is remm.

Thanks,
Remy


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Re: New Subprojects

[Remy Maucherat]

> James House wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Project 2: a Workflow Engine / Process Automator
> > =
> > Description:
> >
> > An engine for doing Workflow and Process Automation within or without a
J2EE
> > application server.
> >
> > Desired Features:
> >
> > * I haven't put much thought into this yet, but I feel this is a real
need
> > in the open source world unless someone can tell me of an existing one?
> >
> > In case you're not sure what I'm referring to, here's a product of BEA's
> > that is similar to what I'm envisioning:
> > http://www.bea.com/products/weblogic/integrator/datasheet.shtml
> >
> > Anyone interested in participating in either of these please contact me:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> I think both projects sounds great and targets what you would want/need in
a bigger project.
> Having worked with products such as Infooffice, StoryServer, Interwoven I
have allot of input
> on how to make the second project and I would also like it to target
content management since
> the CMS products are generally a piece of shit that costs 80.000$ !! (i.e.
Interwoven).
>
> I'd love to get involved with both projects in which ever OpenSource
umbrella they end up
> under, and would like to see them under Jakarta.

I'm interested in a project like (2) for Slide, for the reasons mentioned by
Bip and others. Of course, since it's for embedding it into another product,
I don't need all the functionality of a generic workflow engine.

However, I have doubts that that kind of project can be started with only
general ideas. I think such a proposal should be made with a prototype
codebase and / or detailed design ideas.

Remy


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NNTP access

[Remy Maucherat]

Hi,

I was checking out netbeans, and I noticed on their news page that they now
had NNTP access to some of their mailing lists. Since netbeans.org is hosted
by collab.net, I was wondering if it would be possible to get something
similar for the apache.org mailing lists.

Remy



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Re: [PROPOSAL] The Commons

[Remy Maucherat]

> Ted,
>
> Sounds good to me. I think it would be better to start with one mailing
list
> so ensure there is enough "mass" in discussions. Also, I am a bit dubious
> about the name "commons" (Don't know if there has been much discussion
about
> that).

A lot of the discussion focussed on the name, and the majority voted for
"commons". I personally liked "Agora" better.

Some of the vote results can be found in the draft documents Ted created,
like this one :
http://husted.com/about/jakarta/lib005.htm

> The concept of a Commons is often used as an example of things that
> get abused because there is no ownership. If the name is up for
discussion,
> can I suggest the name "substrate"?

Remy


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Re: Nominations for the Jakata PMC

[Remy Maucherat]

> Remy Maucherat wrote:
>
> > IMHO, the best election process would be to let the committers
> > submit a ballot containing the list of committers they want to
> > have in the PMC. Then, just choose the 10 - 15 committers who
> > got the most votes.
>
> That suggestion has some merit.  However, I am concerned that the
resulting
> list would end up with a number of people interested in some of the larger
> subprojects and not many people interested in some of the smaller ones.
>
> Getting coverage over the entire code base was the primary motivation for
> this round of elections.  I realize that some view the 3.3 release of
> Tomcat as a separate project, but in fact it is a release of a subproject.
> There are quite a few PMC members with commit access to that code base and
> who follow tomcat-dev closely.  And have helped both publically and
"behind
> the scenes" getting Tomcat 3.3 approved.


Here's the text of an email I sent privately to Pier by accident :

I think my original email was a bit rude, so please allow me to apologize
for
it; I just didn't know how to express myself properly and ).

I thought that if you want to promote openess by having this election, you
should as well allow us to just vote for any committer. People are not aware
of the fact that Costin may or may not be interested.

Note that you also must be willing to do some project management work (which
can
be time consuming) if you're elected and accept the nomination (which isn't
something I'd be willing to do personally).

> > To voice my disapproval with the current process, I won't participate
> > in the current ballot.
>
> That is certainly your right.  A d@mn shame IMHO, but nevertheless your
> right.  I hope you reconsider.

Ok, here's my vote :
[+1] Ceki Gülcü
[+1] Costin Manolache (even if I disagree with him half the time)

Remy


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Re: Nominations for the Jakata PMC

[Remy Maucherat]

Quoting Sam Ruby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> [  ] Peter Donald
> [  ] Diane Holt
> [  ] Ted Husted
> [  ] Ceki Gülcü
> [  ] Geir Magnusson Jr.
> [  ] Daniel F. Savarese
> [  ] Jason van Zyl

I'm a bit disappointed by that list, which doesn't include Costin. I'm starting 
to think that what he said a while ago (basically, that nobody here cares about 
code and contributions, and that it's all about politics) is really true after 
all.

IMHO, the best election process would be to let the committers submit a ballot 
containing the list of committers they want to have in the PMC. Then, just 
choose the 10 - 15 committers who got the most votes.

To voice my disapproval with the current process, I won't participate in the 
current ballot.

Remy

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Re: [POLL] Re: Code Sharing Concepts

[Remy Maucherat]

> on 2/15/01 3:24 PM, "Craig R. McClanahan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:

> > Of course, no third part connection pool at all is needed if your app
server
> > provides one for you.  And, as long as the server obeys the conventions
> > described in the servlet and J2EE specs w.r.t.  entries
and the
> > corresponding JNDI context provided by the server (which is in the
near-term
> > plans for Tomcat 4 as well, with plug-in of any conforming data source),
the
> > app doesn't care.  It's portable, instead of locked in to a particular
> > implementation.
>
> Point being...where is Tomcat going to get its implementation of a
> connection pool from? Are you going to re-implement Struts pool again? :-)

The default implementation I use is the Tyrex DataSource implementation.
http://tyrex.exolab.org/

The data source support is definitely not enabled by default.

Remy


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