Is it 'Jakarta Apache Tomcat' or 'Apache Tomcat'?

2005-03-21 Thread Mladen Turk
Hi,
Just want to clear some things about all the *branding misuse* :)
Looking at the archives (and trust me, took me a weekend), I
really have not found a firm standpoint, because there where
so many Chairmans and Directors with opposite statements.
So the question is what is the actual name of the thing that
we all know as Tomcat?
Is it 'Apache Jakarta Tomcat' or 'Apache Tomcat' or
'Jakarta Tomcat'?
If it's 'Apache Tomcat' like couple of people suggested
recently, then the question is what is 'Apache Tomcat' doing
inside 'Apache Jakarta'?
Anyhow, what are your feelings that we (Tomcat developers),
propose to the ASF to be nominated as TLP?
I know that some of you will think (since it's coming from me)
'Damn, JBoss is trying to control the Tomcat', but there
is just Remy and myself, with dozen of other developers, each
of them having a veto for anything that we try to commit as
encrypted or evil :).
Regards,
Mladen.
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Re: Is it 'Jakarta Apache Tomcat' or 'Apache Tomcat'?

2005-03-21 Thread Henri Yandell

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Mladen Turk wrote:
Hi,
Just want to clear some things about all the *branding misuse* :)
Looking at the archives (and trust me, took me a weekend), I
really have not found a firm standpoint, because there where
so many Chairmans and Directors with opposite statements.
So the question is what is the actual name of the thing that
we all know as Tomcat?
Is it 'Apache Jakarta Tomcat' or 'Apache Tomcat' or
'Jakarta Tomcat'?
If it's 'Apache Tomcat' like couple of people suggested
recently, then the question is what is 'Apache Tomcat' doing
inside 'Apache Jakarta'?
Originally, Jakarta Tomcat. Logically, Apache Jakarta Tomcat as of a 
couple of years ago when the Apache side of Jakarta was being emphasised.

Last August there was a long thread in which it was agreed by consensus 
(ie it was suggested and nobody disagreed, and various people +1'd and 
acted including a couple of Tomcat committers) to make it Apache Tomcat.

However, it was hardly broadcast/followed up on (sorry, my fault) and 
confusion is not a surprise.

Anyhow, what are your feelings that we (Tomcat developers),
propose to the ASF to be nominated as TLP?
I see two direct benefits.
1) Tomcat will have a much more direct channel to the board and will not 
be relying on me as a confused bystander. I use Tomcat regularly, but I'm 
only aware of dev issues at a surface level.

2) It makes my job easier :) The less there is to worry about oversight 
of, the less time I have to allot from coding to do oversight. Perhaps a 
bit simplistic.

I also think there are user benefits, TLPs are easier to understand, and 
in terms of a long term future for [EMAIL PROTECTED], it makes sense for Jakarta 
to be less of an umbrella as I don't believe we are likely to be able to 
setup the kind of system an umbrella needs to perform optimally (an entire 
second layer of management etc).

I know that some of you will think (since it's coming from me)
'Damn, JBoss is trying to control the Tomcat', but there
is just Remy and myself, with dozen of other developers, each
of them having a veto for anything that we try to commit as
encrypted or evil :).
Were you striking a Dr Evil pose while you wrote this? :)
My (strong) advice is that the Tomcat subcommunity have a quick decision 
on what they would like to do about the SD magazine issue. If you don't 
want to send an email, decide and I believe the general Jakarta community 
view will be that we disagree but that your decision holds the most 
weight.

Currently a list of -0's is just not enough to outweigh the general view 
from your Jakarta peers.

Hen
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Re: Is it 'Jakarta Apache Tomcat' or 'Apache Tomcat'?

2005-03-21 Thread Mladen Turk
Henri Yandell wrote:
Were you striking a Dr Evil pose while you wrote this? :)
No, I was striking a Rhett Buttler's pose:
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn :)
My (strong) advice is that the Tomcat subcommunity have a quick decision 
on what they would like to do about the SD magazine issue. If you don't 
want to send an email, decide and I believe the general Jakarta 
community view will be that we disagree but that your decision holds the 
most weight.

I think that Tomcat community has expressed his decisions.
I didn't wish to particapate (for obvious reason).
Remy did, but he is French ;).
Other guys like Costin and Bill said enough, I think.
Of course, send the mail to tomcat-dev@, since it's
up to those people to decide I suppose.
Regards,
Mladen
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Re: Is it 'Jakarta Apache Tomcat' or 'Apache Tomcat'?

2005-03-21 Thread Henri Yandell

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Mladen Turk wrote:
Henri Yandell wrote:
Were you striking a Dr Evil pose while you wrote this? :)
No, I was striking a Rhett Buttler's pose:
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn :)
My (strong) advice is that the Tomcat subcommunity have a quick decision on 
what they would like to do about the SD magazine issue. If you don't want 
to send an email, decide and I believe the general Jakarta community view 
will be that we disagree but that your decision holds the most weight.

I think that Tomcat community has expressed his decisions.
I didn't wish to particapate (for obvious reason).
Remy did, but he is French ;).
Other guys like Costin and Bill said enough, I think.
Of course, send the mail to tomcat-dev@, since it's
up to those people to decide I suppose.
Our voting works on a +1/-1 basis, with +0 and -0 being used for 
non-binding vague inclination. I could be wrong but Bill, Remy, Costin and 
yourself are all basically saying -0. Costin has had a -1, but with 
conditions (ie that this is targetted solely at JBoss) that are (as 
someone with an expert understanding of the inside of my skull) easy to 
claim are not true.

Technically I guess it's up to the PMC members on the Tomcat subcommunity 
to decide, and you're all on this list.

I admit that it would be best for a -1 to come from Costin, Bill or Yoav, 
as yourself and Remy are in a less than desirable position when this stuff 
comes up.

Hen
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