Re: Theft of authorship

[Ceki Gülcü]

I almost forgot. A corollary of the 10+ lines authorship rule is that if you 
copy-and-paste over ten lines of code then you should grant the author of the 10+ 
lines authorship status on your code that imports the 10+ lines. 

If the copy-and-pasted code has a different license/copyright then you must also ask 
for permission. Ceki


At 11:00 08.06.2001 +0200, you wrote:
>At 01:24 08.06.2001 -0700, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
>
>>I think this is really a significant question.  How significant a patch
>>does it take for someone to legitimately be considered an additional
>>"author" of a particular source file?  Attribution in a CVS commit should
>>always be there -- but is that really enough.
>>
>>Unfortunately, I don't have time at the moment to come up with ideas for a
>>document describing reasonable policies for making such a decision -- but
>>it would be useful to have such a thing (i.e. I vote +0 :-).
>
>The rule I use is to be liberal when granting authorship but extremely conservative 
>in removing authorship. 
>
>Ten lines of new code turns a contributor to an author for the relevant file. In some 
>rather rare cases, small (< 5 lines) but insightful changes can have a big impact. 
>Consequently they merit authorship and even committer status. 
>
>In principle, authorship can never be removed regardless of how much one changes the 
>original code. After 65 iterations it might well be the case that not one single 
>lines survives from the original code. That still does not justify the removal of the 
>original author's name.   
>
>On the other hand, authorship is not viral. If someone creates a new class extending 
>a class that I wrote, that does not make me an author of the extending class.
>
>I religiously follow these rules and expect everyone else in the log4j community to 
>do the same. Regards, Ceki

--
Ceki Gülcü


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Re: Theft of authorship

[Ceki Gülcü]

At 01:24 08.06.2001 -0700, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:

>I think this is really a significant question.  How significant a patch
>does it take for someone to legitimately be considered an additional
>"author" of a particular source file?  Attribution in a CVS commit should
>always be there -- but is that really enough.
>
>Unfortunately, I don't have time at the moment to come up with ideas for a
>document describing reasonable policies for making such a decision -- but
>it would be useful to have such a thing (i.e. I vote +0 :-).

The rule I use is to be liberal when granting authorship but extremely conservative in 
removing authorship. 

Ten lines of new code turns a contributor to an author for the relevant file. In some 
rather rare cases, small (< 5 lines) but insightful changes can have a big impact. 
Consequently they merit authorship and even committer status. 

In principle, authorship can never be removed regardless of how much one changes the 
original code. After 65 iterations it might well be the case that not one single lines 
survives from the original code. That still does not justify the removal of the 
original author's name.   

On the other hand, authorship is not viral. If someone creates a new class extending a 
class that I wrote, that does not make me an author of the extending class.

I religiously follow these rules and expect everyone else in the log4j community to do 
the same. Regards, Ceki



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Re: Theft of authorship

[Craig R. McClanahan]

On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Ceki Gülcü wrote:

> 
> Hi Jon,
> 
> I am referring to otherwise honest people who choose to contribute
> their enhancements back to the project. They create new classes but in
> the process remove the names of previous authors. They do this in
> good-faith as otherwise they would not have contributed their code. I
> think it is a question of culture/custom.
> 

It could be as innocent as someone not understanding that multiple @author
tags are legal.

But you don't know until you ask to the individuals involved why this
happened, and encourage them to behave differently.

> I do not think we have a document outlining authorship rules. Does
> anyone know one? Regards, Ceki
> 

I think this is really a significant question.  How significant a patch
does it take for someone to legitimately be considered an additional
"author" of a particular source file?  Attribution in a CVS commit should
always be there -- but is that really enough.

Unfortunately, I don't have time at the moment to come up with ideas for a
document describing reasonable policies for making such a decision -- but
it would be useful to have such a thing (i.e. I vote +0 :-).

Craig


> At 11:51 07.06.2001 -0700, you wrote:
> >on 6/7/01 11:42 AM, "Ceki Gülcü" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> This comes up from time to time and usually has me jump through the roof. Good
> >> willing contributors, take a piece of  existing log4j code, modify or enhance
> >> it, but remove the previous author's names.  They then post their code as if
> >> it was their own. Regardless of how much they modified the code, by removing
> >> the previous author's names they are committing theft. I find this very
> >> disturbing. What do others think? What can we do to combat this phenomenon?
> >> Regards, Ceki
> >
> >There is a difference between doing this accidentally and doing it on
> >purpose. If it is determined that it is done on purpose and the people who
> >did it refuse to follow the license, then the Jakarta PMC should be notified
> >and we can sick the ASF Legal team on the problem. Note, this seems like it
> >would be a last resort type of situation. The best is to try to at least
> >discuss with the villains (jokingly said) first and make sure that it was
> >not intentional.
> >
> >-jon
> > 
> >-- 
> >"Open source is not available to commercial companies."
> >-Steve Balmer, CEO Microsoft
> >
> >
> >
> >-
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> --
> Ceki Gülcü
> 
> 
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> 


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RE: Theft of authorship

[Tal Dayan]

I use a simple source code watermarking technique.

Any class that contain an 'int' variable named 'i' was
written by me.

Tal ;-)



> -Original Message-
> From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 12:19 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Theft of authorship
>
>
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> I am referring to otherwise honest people who choose to
> contribute their enhancements back to the project. They create
> new classes but in the process remove the names of previous
> authors. They do this in good-faith as otherwise they would not
> have contributed their code. I think it is a question of culture/custom.
>
> I do not think we have a document outlining authorship rules.
> Does anyone know one? Regards, Ceki
>
> At 11:51 07.06.2001 -0700, you wrote:
> >on 6/7/01 11:42 AM, "Ceki Gülcü" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> This comes up from time to time and usually has me jump
> through the roof. Good
> >> willing contributors, take a piece of  existing log4j code,
> modify or enhance
> >> it, but remove the previous author's names.  They then post
> their code as if
> >> it was their own. Regardless of how much they modified the
> code, by removing
> >> the previous author's names they are committing theft. I find this very
> >> disturbing. What do others think? What can we do to combat
> this phenomenon?
> >> Regards, Ceki
> >
> >There is a difference between doing this accidentally and doing it on
> >purpose. If it is determined that it is done on purpose and the
> people who
> >did it refuse to follow the license, then the Jakarta PMC should
> be notified
> >and we can sick the ASF Legal team on the problem. Note, this
> seems like it
> >would be a last resort type of situation. The best is to try to at least
> >discuss with the villains (jokingly said) first and make sure that it was
> >not intentional.
> >
> >-jon
> >
> >--
> >"Open source is not available to commercial companies."
> >-Steve Balmer, CEO Microsoft
> ><http://www.suntimes.com/output/tech/cst-fin-micro01.html>
> >
> >
> >-
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> --
> Ceki Gülcü
>
>
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Re: Theft of authorship

[Pier P. Fumagalli]

Jon Stevens at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> on 6/7/01 11:42 AM, "Ceki Gülcü" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> This comes up from time to time and usually has me jump through the roof.
>> Good
>> willing contributors, take a piece of  existing log4j code, modify or enhance
>> it, but remove the previous author's names.  They then post their code as if
>> it was their own. Regardless of how much they modified the code, by removing
>> the previous author's names they are committing theft. I find this very
>> disturbing. What do others think? What can we do to combat this phenomenon?
>> Regards, Ceki
> 
> There is a difference between doing this accidentally and doing it on
> purpose. If it is determined that it is done on purpose and the people who
> did it refuse to follow the license, then the Jakarta PMC should be notified
> and we can sick the ASF Legal team on the problem. Note, this seems like it
> would be a last resort type of situation. The best is to try to at least
> discuss with the villains (jokingly said) first and make sure that it was
> not intentional.

I remember decompiling some classes of a servlet engine back in 1997... That
was quite fun, too bad that the ASF wasn't there at the time, because the
"villain" was a _real_ d**k (but he's rich now, crap! :)

Pier


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Re: Theft of authorship

[Jon Stevens]

on 6/7/01 12:18 PM, "Ceki Gülcü" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Jon,
> 
> I am referring to otherwise honest people who choose to contribute their
> enhancements back to the project. They create new classes but in the process
> remove the names of previous authors. They do this in good-faith as otherwise
> they would not have contributed their code. I think it is a question of
> culture/custom. 

If it is "new classes" (as you say above), then there is no need to give
prior credit because it is a new work.

If they are contributing code based on someone else's code and they remove
the previous credit, then I think that a gentle reminder is all that is
needed here.

I'm sorry, but I don't see this as a major deal. It is simply an education
thing. I seriously doubt that these people are trying to steal work or take
someone else's credit...especially if they are contributing code...

> I do not think we have a document outlining authorship rules. Does anyone know
> one? Regards, Ceki

I don't think there is one, but it is real easy to create one:

#1. All code is copyright the ASF and must have the license on it.
#2. Authorship is defined in @author tags and appropriate credit should be
given for contributed work.

-jon

-- 
"Open source is not available to commercial companies."
-Steve Balmer, CEO Microsoft



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RE: Theft of authorship

[GOMEZ Henri]

If these people have comitter status, they could loose it 
quickly. Why didn't they just append their name...
 

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>-Original Message-
>From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 8:43 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Theft of authorship
>
>
>
>
>Hello,
>
>
>This comes up from time to time and usually has me jump 
>through the roof. Good willing contributors, take a piece of  
>existing log4j code, modify or enhance it, but remove the 
>previous author's names.  They then post their code as if it 
>was their own. Regardless of how much they modified the code, 
>by removing the previous author's names they are committing 
>theft. I find this very disturbing. What do others think? What 
>can we do to combat this phenomenon? Regards, Ceki
>
>
>-
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

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Re: Theft of authorship

[Costin Manolache]

I know the feeling... I don't think there is too much to do about
it - the licence allows that, as long as they keep the Apache
copyright.


Costin

--- Ceki Gülcü <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jon,
> 
> I am referring to otherwise honest people who choose to contribute
> their enhancements back to the project. They create new classes but
> in the process remove the names of previous authors. They do this in
> good-faith as otherwise they would not have contributed their code. I
> think it is a question of culture/custom. 
> 
> I do not think we have a document outlining authorship rules. Does
> anyone know one? Regards, Ceki
> 
> At 11:51 07.06.2001 -0700, you wrote:
> >on 6/7/01 11:42 AM, "Ceki Gülcü" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> This comes up from time to time and usually has me jump through
> the roof. Good
> >> willing contributors, take a piece of  existing log4j code, modify
> or enhance
> >> it, but remove the previous author's names.  They then post their
> code as if
> >> it was their own. Regardless of how much they modified the code,
> by removing
> >> the previous author's names they are committing theft. I find this
> very
> >> disturbing. What do others think? What can we do to combat this
> phenomenon?
> >> Regards, Ceki
> >
> >There is a difference between doing this accidentally and doing it
> on
> >purpose. If it is determined that it is done on purpose and the
> people who
> >did it refuse to follow the license, then the Jakarta PMC should be
> notified
> >and we can sick the ASF Legal team on the problem. Note, this seems
> like it
> >would be a last resort type of situation. The best is to try to at
> least
> >discuss with the villains (jokingly said) first and make sure that
> it was
> >not intentional.
> >
> >-jon
> > 
> >-- 
> >"Open source is not available to commercial companies."
> >-Steve Balmer, CEO Microsoft
> >
> >
> >
>
>-
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> --
> Ceki Gülcü
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 


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Re: Theft of authorship

[Ceki Gülcü]

Hi Jon,

I am referring to otherwise honest people who choose to contribute their enhancements 
back to the project. They create new classes but in the process remove the names of 
previous authors. They do this in good-faith as otherwise they would not have 
contributed their code. I think it is a question of culture/custom. 

I do not think we have a document outlining authorship rules. Does anyone know one? 
Regards, Ceki

At 11:51 07.06.2001 -0700, you wrote:
>on 6/7/01 11:42 AM, "Ceki Gülcü" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> This comes up from time to time and usually has me jump through the roof. Good
>> willing contributors, take a piece of  existing log4j code, modify or enhance
>> it, but remove the previous author's names.  They then post their code as if
>> it was their own. Regardless of how much they modified the code, by removing
>> the previous author's names they are committing theft. I find this very
>> disturbing. What do others think? What can we do to combat this phenomenon?
>> Regards, Ceki
>
>There is a difference between doing this accidentally and doing it on
>purpose. If it is determined that it is done on purpose and the people who
>did it refuse to follow the license, then the Jakarta PMC should be notified
>and we can sick the ASF Legal team on the problem. Note, this seems like it
>would be a last resort type of situation. The best is to try to at least
>discuss with the villains (jokingly said) first and make sure that it was
>not intentional.
>
>-jon
> 
>-- 
>"Open source is not available to commercial companies."
>-Steve Balmer, CEO Microsoft
>
>
>
>-
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

--
Ceki Gülcü


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Re: Theft of authorship

[Jon Stevens]

on 6/7/01 11:42 AM, "Ceki Gülcü" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This comes up from time to time and usually has me jump through the roof. Good
> willing contributors, take a piece of  existing log4j code, modify or enhance
> it, but remove the previous author's names.  They then post their code as if
> it was their own. Regardless of how much they modified the code, by removing
> the previous author's names they are committing theft. I find this very
> disturbing. What do others think? What can we do to combat this phenomenon?
> Regards, Ceki

There is a difference between doing this accidentally and doing it on
purpose. If it is determined that it is done on purpose and the people who
did it refuse to follow the license, then the Jakarta PMC should be notified
and we can sick the ASF Legal team on the problem. Note, this seems like it
would be a last resort type of situation. The best is to try to at least
discuss with the villains (jokingly said) first and make sure that it was
not intentional.

-jon
 
-- 
"Open source is not available to commercial companies."
-Steve Balmer, CEO Microsoft



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Theft of authorship

[Ceki Gülcü]

Hello,


This comes up from time to time and usually has me jump through the roof. Good willing 
contributors, take a piece of  existing log4j code, modify or enhance it, but remove 
the previous author's names.  They then post their code as if it was their own. 
Regardless of how much they modified the code, by removing the previous author's names 
they are committing theft. I find this very disturbing. What do others think? What can 
we do to combat this phenomenon? Regards, Ceki


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