Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
Joe Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for why it would be more useful than eerror/ewarn without an argument: it would potentially allow for intelligent context-based coloring of the * (based on surrounding lines). Well, this is true and it isn't... In the case of: ewarn line one eblank ewarn line two Obviously it would be the same as ewarn. However, what about here: ewarn line one eblank elog line two eblank einfo line three I'm not sure how you could make a function like that smart enough to really know what to do... so perhaps since the author is the only one who can really know what colour they intend, they should just use the appropriate ewarn/elog/einfo without args. -- Jim Ramsay Gentoo/Linux Developer (rox,gkrellm) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
Benedikt Morbach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Peter Volkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But speaking about names of options - -A and -B are easier to remember as -A stands for above and -B for below and grep users already knew that. for grep -A means after and -B before ;) Maybe we could have '-^' and '-v' then? I do kind of like the idea of making these flags available for people who think it makes their ebuilds prettier... I just don't think I'll even use them. -- Jim Ramsay Gentoo/Linux Developer (rox,gkrellm) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
Jim Ramsay [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:34:01 -0400: Joe Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for why it would be more useful than eerror/ewarn without an argument: it would potentially allow for intelligent context-based coloring of the * (based on surrounding lines). Well, this is true and it isn't... In the case of: ewarn line one eblank ewarn line two Obviously it would be the same as ewarn. However, what about here: ewarn line one eblank elog line two eblank einfo line three Here's a novel idea, let blank lines be /real/ blank lines! =8^) Seriously, when it's different messages, having a * of /any/ color between them only confuses the case, that they /are/ different messages. If it's paragraphs of the same message, then the color of the * isn't an issue, just make it the same color as that for the other content lines of the message. Sometimes I'll check the messages, and see two or three different logs/ warnings/whatever discussed in what appears to be the same message. That shouldn't be the case. I should be able to scan thru them and as soon as I note that it's a message I've read before, be able to skip to the next one. As it is, I have to read thru the entire message just to see if something new got added to the end. Talking about which, what I'd like would be a date-stamp noting when the message was added, or better yet, some indication of the message being either new or something that's necessary to check each time, even on -r updates and remerges. If I'm updating something that has a number of messages and is frequently updated, I should be able to see immediately the new messages added since the last time I updated, and the ones that always apply. Of course, that's not entirely practical to try to implement, but it'd be nice, and it does reinforce why I'd prefer /real/ blanks between messages, not ones with colored stars that may or may not make it look like the entire group of messages are just one single long message, depending on whether they're all the same color or not. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
Duncan wrote: Jim Ramsay [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:34:01 -0400: Well, this is true and it isn't... In the case of: ewarn line one eblank ewarn line two Obviously it would be the same as ewarn. However, what about here: ewarn line one eblank elog line two eblank einfo line three Yes, this is a tricky case. In the case where the previous and next output lines differ like this, a grey * could be used, or perhaps a green one. However, read more below on my response to Duncan. Here's a novel idea, let blank lines be /real/ blank lines! =8^) Duncan, your point is well-taken. Taking that idea one step further, how about using a neutral color for the * when eblank is used. For example, a medium grey. This would avoid needing logic to guess the correct color, and it would nicely integrate with the rest of the visual flow/look of the output. Although I was originally imagining a context-based color picker, this may be, indeed (as some have pointed out) overkill. The actual issue has mostly to do with conditionals like in the example I gave a while back (in which the blank lines need to be within the conditionals to avoid bunching up of blank lines when the conditionals are false). Currently, I tend to color the * the same as the preceding lines (I have no choice bu to pick some color), but this doesn't really look right, depending on how the conditionals play out. I am leaning more and more toward the idea of a neutral color for eblanks, as this would indeed be trivial to code and it would make output make more sense, especially for conditionals, but for other cases as well. -Joe -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
Joe Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:41:55 -0600: I am leaning more and more toward the idea of a neutral color for eblanks, as this would indeed be trivial to code and it would make output make more sense, especially for conditionals, but for other cases as well. Yes, a neutral grey, as you suggested, makes sense. That'd cure my problem of visual separator as well, and as you said, would be trivial to code compared to the complexity of trying to figure out dynamically which color to use. I like it! =8^) -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
On Sun, 2008-06-15 at 14:02 +0400, Peter Volkov wrote: В Срд, 11/06/2008 в 19:45 -0400, Jim Ramsay пишет: Vlastimil Babka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would prefer something that doesn't add extra lines to ebuild. I think I would disagree with you here. I think that having a special 'eblank' or 'eseparator' command is much more readable in an ebuild. Taking into account that as einfo, ewarn and eerror work without any arguments too are there any benefits from eblank/eseparator? Not really and part of my thought process was less lines, less code. Not more or staying the same. No matter what it is, typing anything on a single line to get a new line is more than should be required IMHO. Want a single line of output with blanks lines before and after. One has to code 3 lines in ebuild. That should be 1 line to get 1 comment, with auto-blanks per flag/switch, or etc. 1 line of code 3 lines of output, efficient. 3 lines of code, 3 lines of output. Not so much. -- William L. Thomson Jr. amd64/Java/Trustees Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
On Mon, 2008-06-16 at 17:01 +, Duncan wrote: Joe Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:41:55 -0600: I am leaning more and more toward the idea of a neutral color for eblanks, as this would indeed be trivial to code and it would make output make more sense, especially for conditionals, but for other cases as well. Yes, a neutral grey, as you suggested, makes sense. That'd cure my problem of visual separator as well, and as you said, would be trivial to code compared to the complexity of trying to figure out dynamically which color to use. I like it! =8^) With flags/switches coloring is moot. One can always add a different switch/flag to get a diff color line before or after any one section. Which is easier IMHO, less logic in detecting and setting the right color. Which is pretty moot per my initial thoughts. Which was just to reduce size of ebuilds (slightly), write less code. -- William L. Thomson Jr. amd64/Java/Trustees Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
В Срд, 11/06/2008 в 19:45 -0400, Jim Ramsay пишет: Vlastimil Babka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would prefer something that doesn't add extra lines to ebuild. I think I would disagree with you here. I think that having a special 'eblank' or 'eseparator' command is much more readable in an ebuild. Taking into account that as einfo, ewarn and eerror work without any arguments too are there any benefits from eblank/eseparator? Speaking about blank lines around elog functions I think they could be useful and I like idea of adding options (switches) to said functions. But speaking about names of options - -A and -B are easier to remember as -A stands for above and -B for below and grep users already knew that. BTW, have anybody filled feature request? -- Peter. -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Peter Volkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But speaking about names of options - -A and -B are easier to remember as -A stands for above and -B for below and grep users already knew that. for grep -A means after and -B before ;) -- Benedikt -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
В Вск, 15/06/2008 в 13:19 +0200, Benedikt Morbach пишет: But speaking about names of options - -A and -B are easier to remember as -A stands for above and -B for below and grep users already knew that. for grep -A means after and -B before ;) True. And still, one day I learn this options for grep, it'll became trivial to learn them for einfo functions. :) -- Peter. -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
Benedikt Morbach wrote: On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Peter Volkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But speaking about names of options - -A and -B are easier to remember as -A stands for above and -B for below and grep users already knew that. for grep -A means after and -B before ;) I (not having used those grep options frequently), would find it hard to remember if -A meant blank line after this or this after a blank line. I am more visual person, so I'd find the separate eblank/eseparator easier to visualize, and the look of the ebuild src would match the output more naturally. As for why it would be more useful than eerror/ewarn without an argument: it would potentially allow for intelligent context-based coloring of the * (based on surrounding lines). -Joe -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
Vlastimil Babka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would prefer something that
doesn't add extra lines to ebuild.
I think I would disagree with you here. I think that having a special
'eblank' or 'eseparator' command is much more readable in an ebuild.
Consider:
pkg_postinst() {
elog Knock knock
eblank
ewarn Who's there?
eblank
elog Interrupting Cow
eblank
ewarn Interrup...
elog Moo!
}
Versus:
pkg_postinst() {
elog -p Knock knock
ewarn Who's there?
elog -pt Interrupting Cow
ewarn Interrup...
elog Moo!
}
I think that in the former case it's much more obvious how the actual
output is going to look. If the cost is an ebuild that's 3 lines
longer, I think that's reasonable.
--
Jim Ramsay
Gentoo/Linux Developer (rox,gkrellm)
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
Joe Peterson wrote: The problem with a simple echo is that no * appears on the left to maintain continuity with the rest of the output - and in a color that makes sense in the context (maybe this isn't a problem - it depends on whether that visual continuity is desired). The far biggest problem of echo is IMHO that it's not part of the elog framework, which means you will see only it if you are watching the thing build. But it won't be processed by anything else set in PORTAGE_ELOG_SYSTEM, for example the echo system which reprints all gathered elog stuff from all built packages when emerge finishes, and which I find very useful. Absence of newlines there makes that however often hardly readable. Using elog commands instead of plain echo helps this, but as you mentioned, could be done better. So I'm also for some *unified* way to specify separators in elog commands. I would prefer something that doesn't add extra lines to ebuild. So how bout some switch to elog commands that adds extra newline after the message, might look better than wltjr's proposal. There could be also switch to add newline before the message but I can't think of a use for it myself. The question is how to name the switch :) -n could be confusing as echo -n has the opposite effect. Maybe -b for blank? -- Vlastimil Babka (Caster) Gentoo/Java signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
On Sat, 2008-06-07 at 00:42 +0200, Vlastimil Babka wrote: Joe Peterson wrote: The problem with a simple echo is that no * appears on the left to maintain continuity with the rest of the output - and in a color that makes sense in the context (maybe this isn't a problem - it depends on whether that visual continuity is desired). The far biggest problem of echo is IMHO that it's not part of the elog framework, Well I mostly included echo as a joke/pun per one of the other comments :) So how bout some switch to elog commands that adds extra newline after the message, might look better than wltjr's proposal. Crude I agree, but at least point for shorthand was understood :) There could be also switch to add newline before the message but I can't think of a use for it myself. The question is how to name the switch :) -n could be confusing as echo -n has the opposite effect. Maybe -b for blank? Or -p for preceding -t for trailing. Which would make one liner elog -pt One line with blank ones before and after -- William L. Thomson Jr. amd64/Java/Trustees Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: On Sat, 2008-06-07 at 00:42 +0200, Vlastimil Babka wrote: There could be also switch to add newline before the message but I can't think of a use for it myself. The question is how to name the switch :) -n could be confusing as echo -n has the opposite effect. Maybe -b for blank? Or -p for preceding -t for trailing. Which would make one liner elog -pt One line with blank ones before and after The comment from Vlastimil about echo not being part of the elog system is a very valid point indeed. As for how to specify that a newline should be inserted, I think that using elog switches like -n, -p, etc., as well as putting more than one string on a line present two problems: the newline would be connected with the elog or ewarn (or whatever style of output was chosen) and it would also potentially make the ebuild code harder to read/debug. For example, if you have a block of ewarn lines, then a blank line, then a block of elog lines, you would have to decide in which style to place the special switch (so portage would not have the opportunity to do auto-context coloring/formatting). I personally would prefer a new command like eseparator that could be treated smartly by portage, taking on the appropriate color based on what is before and after. It could also avoid multiple newlines in the case in which two eseparator lines occur together due to pattern of conditional blocks in the ebuild invoked under certain circumstances (I have found this hard to code in a way that covers all possibilities, as I mentioned before). Also, separators at the very beginning or very end of all lines output by the ebuild could be handled consistently (either ignored or collapsed into an implicit separator, as appropriate) by portage to produce nice output. -Joe -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
Joe Peterson wrote: The comment from Vlastimil about echo not being part of the elog system is a very valid point indeed. As for how to specify that a newline should be inserted, I think that using elog switches like -n, -p, etc., as well as putting more than one string on a line present two problems: the newline would be connected with the elog or ewarn (or whatever style of output was chosen) In the ebuild it would look like connected but in fact portage could just note that there was a newline switch and output it in whatever style it wants. and it would also potentially make the ebuild code harder to read/debug. Well you can always insert a completely blank line in the ebuild after a -n message. That's easier to read than a eseparator line. For example, if you have a block of ewarn lines, then a blank line, then a block of elog lines, you would have to decide in which style to place the special switch (so portage would not have the opportunity to do auto-context coloring/formatting). Like I said above, it still has the oportunity to do whatever it wants. I personally would prefer a new command like eseparator that could be treated smartly by portage, taking on the appropriate color based on what is before and after. It could also avoid multiple newlines in the case in which two eseparator lines occur together due to pattern of conditional blocks in the ebuild invoked under certain circumstances (I have found this hard to code in a way that covers all possibilities, as I mentioned before). Also, separators at the very beginning or very end of all lines output by the ebuild could be handled consistently (either ignored or collapsed into an implicit separator, as appropriate) by portage to produce nice output. That should all be possible with the switches, unless I miss something. My idea is that a switch for post-newline is enough, and there's no need for pre-newline. You use that switch whenever you end a logical block of elog lines. Portage just notes you used it, and when another elog comes, newline is emitted first. Multiple newlines should not even happen (and if yes, could be easily collapsed). Last newline of the ebuild is just consumed. Or perhaps use this processing only for the elog post-processing system (which I personally think matters more), and during the build itself emit the newlines immediatelly so that non-elog output is not tied too closely to ends of elog blocks. -- Vlastimil Babka (Caster) Gentoo/Java signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
On Wed, 2008-06-04 at 18:45 -0600, Ryan Hill wrote: I just throw a couple echos around any output. Surely more than one way I think doing any kind of automatic pretty-print formatting is overkill, but that's just my opinion. Yes to a point. Starting having multiple blocks like that, and your added 2 lines per for really no reason. I think a more ideal solution, less drastic to implement might be allowing 2 arguments to be passed. So you could do like elog A blank line precedes this one elog A blank line follow this one Then maybe if a argument = it can be swapped out for echo :) -- William L. Thomson Jr. amd64/Java/Trustees Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
On Wed, 2008-06-04 at 20:52 -0400, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: I think a more ideal solution, less drastic to implement might be allowing 2 arguments to be passed. So you could do like elog A blank line precedes this one elog A blank line follow this one Actually 3, not sure there would be any need for more. 3 for 1 liners elog USE flag milf not set -- William L. Thomson Jr. amd64/Java/Trustees Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Default blank lines for error, elog, einfo, etc
William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: On Wed, 2008-06-04 at 20:52 -0400, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: I think a more ideal solution, less drastic to implement might be allowing 2 arguments to be passed. So you could do like elog A blank line precedes this one elog A blank line follow this one Actually 3, not sure there would be any need for more. 3 for 1 liners elog USE flag milf not set Well, I'm not sure how that adds anything over just using echo, and if I simply wanted to statically insert a blank line, I'd rather use echo on a separate line in the ebuild, since that would be more clear. The problem with a simple echo is that no * appears on the left to maintain continuity with the rest of the output - and in a color that makes sense in the context (maybe this isn't a problem - it depends on whether that visual continuity is desired). Also, there are those times when inserting a blank line depends on what comes after (or before) - and if a * is used, the color depends on this too. That can only be solved at a higher level (i.e. in portage). This is all just food for thought. I happen to be into aesthetics (and, BTW, I think Gentoo does a great job already in its use of colors, etc.), so I think it is important to think about these things, but it's certainly not the *most* important issue to ponder. :) -Joe -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
