Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

Hey!!! I'm not going to open that bug, read all these related mailing list discussions or waste time on whatever! Instead, I think it's important some of you read this message: I hope that you choose to stand still for some time, or even sit or lie down for once. Take a deep breath and

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 10:38 PM, kuzetsa wrote: > > I think this may be a misunderstanding? no? there might be some mailing > list jargon term: "moderation" which I was unaware of: > Historically moderation meant having list traffic held prior to distribution for approval

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On 03/26/2018 09:26 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 9:19 PM, kuzetsa wrote: >> On 03/20/2018 08:08 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: >> >>> >>> Actually, I think it is more of a technical constraint. It is >>> basically impossible to blacklist somebody on a mailing

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 9:19 PM, kuzetsa wrote: > On 03/20/2018 08:08 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > >> >> Actually, I think it is more of a technical constraint. It is >> basically impossible to blacklist somebody on a mailing list, since >> all they need to do is roll up a new

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On 03/20/2018 08:08 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:54 PM, Benda Xu wrote: >> William Hubbs writes: >> >>> I do feel that this decision reflects badly on us as a community and >>> should be reversed immediately. The proper way to deal

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On 03/22/2018 12:38 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 4:30 AM, Alexander Berntsen > wrote: >> On 22/03/18 07:31, Benda Xu wrote: >>> We might be able to require GPG signed email to make a post. >> Almost definitely. >> >> But before bikeshedding that, it

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 4:30 AM, Alexander Berntsen wrote: > On 22/03/18 07:31, Benda Xu wrote: >> We might be able to require GPG signed email to make a post. > Almost definitely. > > But before bikeshedding that, it would be advisable to find out whether > it would be a

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On 22/03/18 07:31, Benda Xu wrote: > We might be able to require GPG signed email to make a post. Almost definitely. But before bikeshedding that, it would be advisable to find out whether it would be a good idea in the first place. Unless you want only prospective developers to be able to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

Hi Rich, Rich Freeman writes: > Actually, I think it is more of a technical constraint. It is > basically impossible to blacklist somebody on a mailing list, since > all they need to do is roll up a new email address. > I can think of various arguments for whitelisting or

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On 22/03/18 00:33, Kristian Fiskerstrand wrote: > > Most contributions should happen via patches on b.g.o > Who was lamenting about the every-increasing bug queue on this Very list recently? And what about those 5+ year old bugs that are rotting for packages long last-rited from the tree ?

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On 03/22/2018 12:56 AM, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote: > Rich Freeman schrieb: > >> Actually, I think it is more of a technical constraint. It is >> basically impossible to blacklist somebody on a mailing list, since >> all they need to do is roll up a new email address. >> >> I can think

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On 03/22/2018 12:56 AM, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote: > Michael Palimaka schrieb: >> I see that in bug #650964[1] Council is pushing forward again with >> implementing user whitelisting on this mailing list (ie. anyone that is >> not "approved" will have their mail rejected). >> >> Could

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On 03/22/2018 12:56 AM, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote: > Kristian Fiskerstrand schrieb: > >> Switching to mailman might have some good merits on its own, but as I >> understand it it isn't necessary for the proposal at hand, that can be >> solved using access control lists in mlmmj-process?

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

Rich Freeman schrieb: > Actually, I think it is more of a technical constraint. It is > basically impossible to blacklist somebody on a mailing list, since > all they need to do is roll up a new email address. > > I can think of various arguments for whitelisting or not whitelisting, > but it

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

Michael Palimaka schrieb: > I see that in bug #650964[1] Council is pushing forward again with > implementing user whitelisting on this mailing list (ie. anyone that is > not "approved" will have their mail rejected). > > Could someone please explain how this doesn't directly contradict the >

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

Kristian Fiskerstrand schrieb: > Switching to mailman might have some good merits on its own, but as I > understand it it isn't necessary for the proposal at hand, that can be > solved using access control lists in mlmmj-process? I would advise caution that Council better not try to micro-manage

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

John Levine, author of "The Internet For Dummies," once set up a robo-moderation process for the Usenet newsgroup soc.religion.unitarian-univ (Unitarian Universalists). The group, along with most of Usenet, ultimately "died" due to lack of attention from the moderators, who failed to curb one of

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 12:55 PM, R0b0t1 wrote: > > I can't tell, and I suspect other people can't either. > This is the crux of the issue. Decisions involving people issues are made behind closed doors, which means that others are not free to confirm for themselves whether

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Alec Warner wrote: > The community has a 'toxic people problem' Maybe certain people who feel they are being attacked are idiots and don't like hearing it? I can't tell, and I suspect other people can't either. Respectfully, R0b0t1

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Eray Aslan wrote: > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 10:44:48AM -0400, Alec Warner wrote: > > [1] Which isn't to say that I would accept 'orders' to commit crimes, or > > other obviously bad things. > > This is the crux of the problem. There are certain

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 10:44:48AM -0400, Alec Warner wrote: > [1] Which isn't to say that I would accept 'orders' to commit crimes, or > other obviously bad things. This is the crux of the problem. There are certain lines you will not cross. I am saying that my line is different and by voicing

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:36 AM, Eray Aslan wrote: > On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 10:28:48AM -0500, Matthew Thode wrote: > > While I personally do no agree with mailing list moderation infra has > > been tasked with moving forward on it. > > You can always resign from infra. > >

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 1:36 AM, Eray Aslan wrote: > On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 10:28:48AM -0500, Matthew Thode wrote: >> While I personally do no agree with mailing list moderation infra has >> been tasked with moving forward on it. > > That was a somewhat tongue-in-cheek comment

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 10:28:48AM -0500, Matthew Thode wrote: > While I personally do no agree with mailing list moderation infra has > been tasked with moving forward on it. You can always resign from infra. That was a somewhat tongue-in-cheek comment but not wholly. You cant cop out by

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On 20/03/2018 05:17, Michael Palimaka wrote: > I see that in bug #650964[1] Council is pushing forward again with > implementing user whitelisting on this mailing list (ie. anyone that is > not "approved" will have their mail rejected). > > Could someone please explain how this doesn't directly

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:54 PM, Benda Xu wrote: > William Hubbs writes: > >> I do feel that this decision reflects badly on us as a community and >> should be reversed immediately. The proper way to deal with people who >> have bad behavior is to deal

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

William Hubbs writes: > I do feel that this decision reflects badly on us as a community and > should be reversed immediately. The proper way to deal with people who > have bad behavior is to deal with them individually and not put a > restriction on the community that is

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On 03/20/2018 04:28 PM, Matthew Thode wrote: > On 18-03-20 23:17:52, Michael Palimaka wrote: >> I see that in bug #650964[1] Council is pushing forward again with >> implementing user whitelisting on this mailing list (ie. anyone that is >> not "approved" will have their mail rejected). >> >>

Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:41 AM, Gregory Woodbury wrote: > On gentoo-dev list: k_f > points out that this should have been talked about during previous > discussion periods... > > It was discussed "to death" over and over, and many argued against it > till they were blue in

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 04:44:26PM +0100, Alexander Berntsen wrote: > On 20/03/18 13:17, Michael Palimaka wrote: > > Could someone please explain how this doesn't directly contradict the > > core tenets of an open and inclusive community? > It's fairly simple to produce a justification of the

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

I can understand the need to reduce meaningless spams on the dev list, but seems like general rejection of posts from non-developers would distract the idea of this being an open mailing list: a list that one can’t post to effectively decays to something like a bulletin board, and obviously the

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On 20/03/18 13:17, Michael Palimaka wrote: > Could someone please explain how this doesn't directly contradict the > core tenets of an open and inclusive community? It's fairly simple to produce a justification of the decision. I can think of several ways of doing so. One is through an appeal to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On 18-03-20 23:17:52, Michael Palimaka wrote: > I see that in bug #650964[1] Council is pushing forward again with > implementing user whitelisting on this mailing list (ie. anyone that is > not "approved" will have their mail rejected). > > Could someone please explain how this doesn't directly

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On gentoo-dev list: k_f points out that this should have been talked about during previous discussion periods... It was discussed "to death" over and over, and many argued against it till they were blue in the face. Their concerns were ignored, and Gentoo lost a lot more of the "Free and Open"

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 23:17:52 +1100 Michael Palimaka wrote: >I see that in bug #650964[1] Council is pushing forward again with >implementing user whitelisting on this mailing list (ie. anyone that is >not "approved" will have their mail rejected). > >Could someone please explain how this doesn't

Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

On 03/20/2018 01:17 PM, Michael Palimaka wrote: > I see that in bug #650964[1] Council is pushing forward again with > implementing user whitelisting on this mailing list (ie. anyone that is > not "approved" will have their mail rejected). > > Could someone please explain how this doesn't

[gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

I see that in bug #650964[1] Council is pushing forward again with implementing user whitelisting on this mailing list (ie. anyone that is not "approved" will have their mail rejected). Could someone please explain how this doesn't directly contradict the core tenets of an open and inclusive