Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 2:46 AM, Hans de Graaff wrote: > Setting the option in the profile tells me: "Here's this option you can > play with, and we think you might need it. Or not." > > Setting the option in the ebuild tells me: "You know, we are nice and > give you this option, but really you should keep this turned on. > Really." I'm not sure that either really has those connotations. They're both recommended defaults, and as with any recommended default changing it could vary in impact. I think that package defaults make sense from the standpoint of having flags that really do vary in usage between packages. Profile defaults are good for tweaking the overall characteristics of a system. The profile defaults do seem less and less relevant, because we only have 4 profiles. The kde/gnome/desktop profiles get a lot of care, and the default basically gets touched very little. If somebody really wants to make more minimal profiles that actually mean something, rather than just trying to tweak the default profile I think it would actually make more sense to make new profiles and actually turn them into something useful. Maybe have a hardened-server profile and accompanying stage3s that let you install a hardened server that "just works." Maybe have a Raspberry Pi profile. Things that are very specific, and therefore actually accomplish something. Obviously somebody needs to maintain them if they're going to create them, but at least they'd be useful to SOMEBODY. The problem with things like a "minimal default" profile are that everybody has a different idea of what it should be, and as a result the people who tend to want minimal just end up setting -* and tweaking everything anyway. That means that we're debating stuff and messing with existing systems and not really accomplishing anything of meaning for anybody. For one person minimal means that we replace half the GNU tools with busybox, and for another it just means disabling things like CUPS. I think that rather than tossing individual questions about individual flags to the list if some developers want to have a minimal profile they should form a project and create one. Maybe leave the default profile alone, unless there is some flag change that is just a no-brainer. I think the bottom line is that creating a minimal default profile that is actually useful for something and which accomplishes the goals of those envisioning it is going to be a lot harder than it might seem. Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On Sun, 2013-01-20 at 18:03 +0100, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote: > We can either set it in the base profile, then there is no need for > IUSE="+dri". Or we can set it in every single ebuild that has the dri > flag. I prefer the former because it reduces our maintenance burden. You make it sound like these two options are equivalent, but I don't think they are. Setting the option in the profile tells me: "Here's this option you can play with, and we think you might need it. Or not." Setting the option in the ebuild tells me: "You know, we are nice and give you this option, but really you should keep this turned on. Really." >From the descriptions it sounds like you want the latter effect, and thus use IUSE="+dri". This would also help all the people starting out with "-*". Hans
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
> "AWS" == Aaron W Swenson writes:
AWS> That's why there's a base desktop profile and desktop/{gnome,kde}
AWS> profiles.
/usr/portage/profiles/targets/desktop/make.defaults still has too much
crap for a real base profile for a box which (might) run X or wl.
Also, I suspect the things dri brings in (or that one would presume dri
to bring in) are needed for gpGPU and the like.
-JimC
--
James Cloos OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina wrote: >> If we have it as IUSE default, it can be removed from the profiles >> entirely. Having it only in the desktop profile is not good in any >> scenario I can think of. > > chithanh, maybe you can explain to everyone why USE=dri is needed for > base profile. You seem to be the most knowledgable here, can you cite a > specific example for how/why a non-desktop profile machine would need > USE=dri. I think that the example may make it more obvious to people > what is right or wrong here. > It is needed if you want to run X11 in the generally-recommended configuration. I believe it is required for kernel modesetting, and that is the most stable way to run X11 (and I think that allows a non-suid X11 server). I would think that would be the best configuration for X11 on any system, whether server, desktop, etc. Now, in case some of you are thinking "but I NEVER run X11 on my ," in that case the USE flag won't have any effect anyway. But, if there are people who run X11 on their they will get an all-around better experience with dri enabled. I can't really think of a case where somebody would want something that supports dri that is in the tree, but wouldn't want to use dri. Even things like embedded use dri (and in fact it is even more important there with the wimpy CPUs). And if you're running X11 on a server for whatever reason, wouldn't that be the place you would most want it to run as non-root? Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:59:24 -0500 "Rick \"Zero_Chaos\" Farina" wrote: > chithanh, maybe you can explain to everyone why USE=dri is needed for > base profile. You seem to be the most knowledgable here, can you > cite a specific example for how/why a non-desktop profile machine > would need USE=dri. I think that the example may make it more > obvious to people what is right or wrong here. Your question is the wrong one to ask. What you should ask is whether a non-desktop profile machine *would be in any way affected by* USE=dri. - -- Ciaran McCreesh -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlD8aPgACgkQ96zL6DUtXhGpfgCgxjrIlAp1M0gzkg4FJs2Yx+hM 290AniFiLh7uqNl8elQ/yWre1W903ZdC =d+Zn -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > If we have it as IUSE default, it can be removed from the profiles > entirely. Having it only in the desktop profile is not good in any > scenario I can think of. > chithanh, maybe you can explain to everyone why USE=dri is needed for base profile. You seem to be the most knowledgable here, can you cite a specific example for how/why a non-desktop profile machine would need USE=dri. I think that the example may make it more obvious to people what is right or wrong here. Thanks, Zero -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJQ/Gi8AAoJEKXdFCfdEflKvoEP/RVOpm+dVKo4M5rRK0dM/IiZ Hj5bFHcfrtXGUDslZSNXgkPs7FU44hFcNvVIyurksbSvAa5mDyl/2A3mwmVbx7vk uWIyACt28IwX13XP6qUXCQWNkoo1KGiUUxA5GgeuRMGRiJmF0kR8shc3YvamFvGo 1keEnDoy/uZCJZx8YRQPmYls9ZxVlJ1ks9NUg9zU3Mh1/47Yikv5jrElsMfqkHKg /idqTDL1b8FmMDOSKTaMirOtOUToZriST4sd+WxkE1kRQVyc5wmEMyDYQ0DZqMtC FSBIuhn5Y3/tw/b0qBSsTn+iHeTs/JilukHT77x2mVVyM+a7GjAedGJP5TJHONvT d4g0sI/wh6Z/n8Qh/zmp74VJjGBNTi8ARYhttjo12G92irEEN7aZ06bExI9WFlb/ oQB/KWQ7SPBfAxGXwMVyhAMK//E3rptdAt/tX7Xetudphhz6RrJ9Zz6XFc8zu5xY AjsQlFNvFhrXHLUrJmL6YtbNTqXRq627gdKJFlvXjjCFF7Zg95EBPGbDxz8j/hGQ RrR5pUIKync3HELs5cyExBlk8nRMVdmW9c5/veAXJ2YQYJM23P6bwkyaEHPFyNbf Ggz8sweFDUln4G0EY/0k8KpSoG2xmCac59a9lB9zkby6nvGPvDIiOjd1GFqvPWQN 9dr4fV3EfS+w2wthWoua =80/k -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
Mike Frysinger schrieb: > On Sunday 20 January 2013 10:54:55 Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote: >> Yes, I mentioned this in another post already. We can use EAPI=1 IUSE >> defaults instead. But this will not change any systems so I fail to >> see the point behind this. This will only move clutter from profiles >> into ebuilds. > where it should have been in the first place. if it's a package-specific > issue, > then it belongs in the package. It is a common issue shared among all packages and package versions that have this flag. So I think the profile is the correct place. Best regards, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On Sunday 20 January 2013 10:54:55 Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote: > Ben de Groot schrieb: > > On 20 January 2013 23:22, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote: > >> Andreas K. Huettel schrieb: > * move setting USE=dri from default/linux/make.defaults to > targets/desktop/make.defaults > >> > >> I must say that I am unhappy about this. The packages in question should > >> not be built with dri disabled unless you really *really* know what you > >> are doing. > > > > It seems to me this is an obvious case where sane useflag defaults > > need to be set by the packages involved. We no longer need to rely on > > global profiles for this. > > Yes, I mentioned this in another post already. We can use EAPI=1 IUSE > defaults instead. But this will not change any systems so I fail to see > the point behind this. This will only move clutter from profiles into > ebuilds. where it should have been in the first place. if it's a package-specific issue, then it belongs in the package. -mike signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
Brian Dolbec schrieb: > But, doesn't your point above very strongly suggest that IUSE=+dri > should be set on those pkgs irregardless of where/if the dri USE flag > should be set in some profile. We can either set it in the base profile, then there is no need for IUSE="+dri". Or we can set it in every single ebuild that has the dri flag. I prefer the former because it reduces our maintenance burden. > With that in place, then moving it to > the desktop profile from the base wouldn't be bad, would it? If we have it as IUSE default, it can be removed from the profiles entirely. Having it only in the desktop profile is not good in any scenario I can think of. Best regards, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On Sun, 2013-01-20 at 10:30 -0500, Rich Freeman wrote: > It seemed like most who were knowledgeable suggested disabling dri was > a bad move. I think it is required for kernel-modesetting among other > things. Why would somebody install xorg and not use dri? > > Rich > Since I'm not so knowledgeable about it, I didn't vote on this specific issue. But, doesn't your point above very strongly suggest that IUSE=+dri should be set on those pkgs irregardless of where/if the dri USE flag should be set in some profile. With that in place, then moving it to the desktop profile from the base wouldn't be bad, would it? -- Brian Dolbec signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
Ben de Groot schrieb: > On 20 January 2013 23:22, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn > wrote: >> Andreas K. Huettel schrieb: * move setting USE=dri from default/linux/make.defaults to targets/desktop/make.defaults >> I must say that I am unhappy about this. The packages in question should >> not be built with dri disabled unless you really *really* know what you >> are doing. > It seems to me this is an obvious case where sane useflag defaults > need to be set by the packages involved. We no longer need to rely on > global profiles for this. > Yes, I mentioned this in another post already. We can use EAPI=1 IUSE defaults instead. But this will not change any systems so I fail to see the point behind this. This will only move clutter from profiles into ebuilds. Best regards, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On 20 January 2013 23:22, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote: > Andreas K. Huettel schrieb: >>> * move setting USE=dri from default/linux/make.defaults to >>> targets/desktop/make.defaults > > I must say that I am unhappy about this. The packages in question should > not be built with dri disabled unless you really *really* know what you > are doing. It seems to me this is an obvious case where sane useflag defaults need to be set by the packages involved. We no longer need to rely on global profiles for this. -- Cheers, Ben | yngwin Gentoo developer Gentoo Qt project lead, Gentoo Wiki admin
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote: > Andreas K. Huettel schrieb: >> >> Summarizing this thread: >> >>> * move setting USE=dri from default/linux/make.defaults to >>> targets/desktop/make.defaults >> >> +1 by dilfridge, djc, kensington, vapier, pesa, hwoarang >> chitanh, titanofold, zerochaos wants to keep this in default profile >> >> ===> done because it's still 2:1 (see remark at bottom) > > I must say that I am unhappy about this. The packages in question should > not be built with dri disabled unless you really *really* know what you > are doing. ++ It seemed like most who were knowledgeable suggested disabling dri was a bad move. I think it is required for kernel-modesetting among other things. Why would somebody install xorg and not use dri? Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn schrieb: >>> * move setting USE=dri from default/linux/make.defaults to >>> targets/desktop/make.defaults >> +1 by dilfridge, djc, kensington, vapier, pesa, hwoarang >> chitanh, titanofold, zerochaos wants to keep this in default profile >> >> ===> done because it's still 2:1 (see remark at bottom) Also you didn't count yngwin Best regards, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
Andreas K. Huettel schrieb: > > Summarizing this thread: > >> * move setting USE=dri from default/linux/make.defaults to >> targets/desktop/make.defaults > > +1 by dilfridge, djc, kensington, vapier, pesa, hwoarang > chitanh, titanofold, zerochaos wants to keep this in default profile > > ===> done because it's still 2:1 (see remark at bottom) I must say that I am unhappy about this. The packages in question should not be built with dri disabled unless you really *really* know what you are doing. > We definitely need a better way to come to a consensus about such decisions. > Distilling everyone's intent out of the bikeshedding is a pain. I'll come up > with a separate e-mail about this and some suggestions soon... (or do it > yourself, but PLEASE start a separate thread!) 2:1 after two days on -devel and no indication that the number of developers chiming in would be used for decision making. If consensus was not required for this decision, then why bother reaching it at all? Best regards, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
Summarizing this thread: > * move setting USE=dri from default/linux/make.defaults to > targets/desktop/make.defaults +1 by dilfridge, djc, kensington, vapier, pesa, hwoarang chitanh, titanofold, zerochaos wants to keep this in default profile ===> done because it's still 2:1 (see remark at bottom) > * move setting USE=cups from default/linux/make.defaults to > targets/desktop/make.defaults +1 by dilfridge, djc, kensington, vapier, pesa, titanofold, dolsen ===> done, pretty much unanimous > * remove setting USE=pppd in default/linux/make.defaults, instead have it > default to on in net-dialup/capi4k-utils (the only place where it is used) +1 by dilfridge, djc, kensington, vapier, pesa, yngwin ===> done, pretty much unanimous We definitely need a better way to come to a consensus about such decisions. Distilling everyone's intent out of the bikeshedding is a pain. I'll come up with a separate e-mail about this and some suggestions soon... (or do it yourself, but PLEASE start a separate thread!) -- Andreas K. Huettel Gentoo Linux developer dilfri...@gentoo.org http://www.akhuettel.de/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 07:40:56PM -0500, James Cloos wrote:
> > This question only matters if you expect there to be non-desktops where
> > there are packages installed that IUSE dri.
>
> I'd note that there is no correlation between the use of the "desktop"
> profiles and the use of an X11 or wayland server on any given box.
>
> The (gui) world is much more than gnome+kde.
>
> -JimC
That's why there's a base desktop profile and desktop/{gnome,kde}
profiles.
Moving `dri' to the base desktop profile is sensible in that we
recommend any user who will be running a GUI use the desktop
profile. Those who aim for a minimalist profile will enable the flag
themselves.
--
Mr. Aaron W. Swenson
Gentoo Linux Developer
Email : titanof...@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP : 2C00 7719 4F85 FB07 A49C 0E31 5713 AA03 D1BB FDA0
GnuPG ID : D1BBFDA0
pgp7VmQZopbDI.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
> This question only matters if you expect there to be non-desktops where > there are packages installed that IUSE dri. I'd note that there is no correlation between the use of the "desktop" profiles and the use of an X11 or wayland server on any given box. The (gui) world is much more than gnome+kde. -JimC -- James Cloos OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On Sat, 2013-01-19 at 21:04 +, Aaron W. Swenson wrote: > On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 03:53:25PM -0500, Philip Webb wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 3:18 AM, Ben de Groot wrote: > > > I'm not sure whether we need to keep cups at all. > > > I haven't printed anything from my personal PC or laptop in years. > > Please continue to support Cups. > > > > We're only discussing whether or not to have the `cups' USE flag in > the base profile, not the package itself. > > I don't believe we need it in the base profile. The only people who > would enable it are those that are setting up a print server or those > who are setting up a desktop, in which case they would want to use the > desktop profile. > +1 for moving it to desktop To further add to this bikeshed! Something no-one has added so far is that there is a very easy to use tool to use when you change profiles. enalyze rebuild use It is part of gentoolkit. I first created it to help fix a new users bungled install. But it works perfect for changing profiles with different use flag defaults. In order to keep your installed packages settings the same, run this immediately after the change, look over and/or edit the file created to your liking, then replace the existing pacakage.use PROBLEM SOLVED! NO default USE flag changes will break your system. Same can be done for keyword changes done in profiles enalyze rebuild keywords So, for the new 13.0 profiles, please add this to the recommended steps for migrating profiles. It should greatly reduce the number of bugs and forum threads complaining about breakage. Yeah, I know, there will still be some that don't read instructions and continue to break their shit and complain to us it's our fault. -- Brian Dolbec signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 03:53:25PM -0500, Philip Webb wrote: > On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 3:18 AM, Ben de Groot wrote: > > I'm not sure whether we need to keep cups at all. > > I haven't printed anything from my personal PC or laptop in years. > > As a user, I'ld say this wb a very unpopular move with some of us. > I rarely use my 2nd-hand 1995 printer, but sometimes it is essential : > eg I now need to print letters to 2 friends abroad who don't have e-mail > & occasionally I need to print forms downloaded from the Internet > for tax purposes or to get mail-in refunds on things I bought. > I don't have access to an office printer > & when last asked, my neighbour reported his printer "broken". > > Please continue to support Cups. > We're only discussing whether or not to have the `cups' USE flag in the base profile, not the package itself. I don't believe we need it in the base profile. The only people who would enable it are those that are setting up a print server or those who are setting up a desktop, in which case they would want to use the desktop profile. -- Mr. Aaron W. Swenson Gentoo Linux Developer Email : titanof...@gentoo.org GnuPG FP : 2C00 7719 4F85 FB07 A49C 0E31 5713 AA03 D1BB FDA0 GnuPG ID : D1BBFDA0 pgpTyPWXAp7fI.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 3:18 AM, Ben de Groot wrote: > I'm not sure whether we need to keep cups at all. > I haven't printed anything from my personal PC or laptop in years. As a user, I'ld say this wb a very unpopular move with some of us. I rarely use my 2nd-hand 1995 printer, but sometimes it is essential : eg I now need to print letters to 2 friends abroad who don't have e-mail & occasionally I need to print forms downloaded from the Internet for tax purposes or to get mail-in refunds on things I bought. I don't have access to an office printer & when last asked, my neighbour reported his printer "broken". Please continue to support Cups. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 19/01/13 05:33 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 3:18 AM, Ben de Groot > wrote: >> I'm not sure whether we need to keep cups at all. I haven't >> printed anything from my personal PC or laptop in years. And I'm >> sure I'm not the only one. > > The suggestion that few people actually print anything ever really > seems "out of touch" to me, but it could easily be > cultural/generational/etc, and maybe I'm the one who is out of > touch. I'll add to this bikeshed.. I'll agree (as i believe most will) that the days are going where everyone has a printer linked to their computer. However, I also hold the opinion that many (if not the majority) have access to a printer when necessary, either via their network or (in the case of laptops) via accessing a colleague's network. We could certainly disable/remove cups from the default profiles, and thus drop printing support -- but do we really want to put users into a situation that they will have to rebuild a bunch of stuff for those cases when the -do- want to print something? I think opt-out on this one is still a better option; if you *know* the install will never need to print (or act as a print server), USE="-cups" is easy enough to set. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlD68kMACgkQ2ugaI38ACPDaqAEAn89GvjNHOs8khpbu7wyKiuyv oYRBXZjhdi2Z0WNhk1cBALaT8gwMuTTJStuEHbcHZnxztgKoxczf6RNXhq4W09ZN =J2tZ -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 3:18 AM, Ben de Groot wrote: > I'm not sure whether we need to keep cups at all. I haven't printed > anything from my personal PC or laptop in years. And I'm sure I'm not > the only one. Won't repeat my previous email, but this is the kind of situation where a "popularity contest" application would really help us. Maybe a forum poll? The suggestion that few people actually print anything ever really seems "out of touch" to me, but it could easily be cultural/generational/etc, and maybe I'm the one who is out of touch. Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On 19 January 2013 04:49, Andreas K. Huettel wrote: > > During the server profile discussion, it became clear that we could clean up > the base profiles a bit. This is unrelated to the profile versions, as the > change would affect all versions (well, at least without bigger changes). > > What I suggested and what djc and kensington supported was: > > * move setting USE=dri and USE=cups from default/linux/make.defaults to > targets/desktop/make.defaults As said by others, dri can stay in the default base profile, as it only affects things when X is specifically installed, in which case dri would be a good default to have. I'm not sure whether we need to keep cups at all. I haven't printed anything from my personal PC or laptop in years. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. So I'm voting for dropping cups useflag from all profiles. If some people think it is necessary, maybe it can be moved up to the more complete desktop profiles for gnome and kde. For a simple non-gnome/kde desktop, I see no need for cups to be enabled by default at all. Since this may be an unexpected change for some, let's only drop it from the new 13.0 profiles. > * remove setting USE=pppd in default/linux/make.defaults, instead have it > default to on in net-dialup/capi4k-utils (the only place where it is used) +1 -- Cheers, Ben | yngwin Gentoo developer Gentoo Qt project lead, Gentoo Wiki admin
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 01/18/2013 07:02 PM, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote: > Markos Chandras schrieb: >> On 18 January 2013 23:29, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn >> wrote: >>> Because it should be enabled when the respective packages are >>> installed, and not depending on the profile the user has selected. >> Hell, as discussed, the base profile should contain the absolute >> minimal flags, and "dri" does not appear to be one of these. >> Having graphics support on such a profile is not expected. IMHO it >> should be moved to the desktop profile >> > > If you have an absolute minimal system, then none of your packages will > have the dri flag. So it won't hurt. If you remove the dri flag from the > default profile, this will break users' setups for no good reason. > > Moving to EAPI=1 USE defaults would be an alternative if the dri flag is > deemed unacceptable for the default profile, but in my opinion a > pointless exercise as it would change precisely zero systems. I agree completely, if removing USE=dri from base will mess with users let's just not do it. For minimalists it will have no effect anyway. +1 (to the moves everyone agrees on and not moving dri) and thanks for all your hard work on this. - -Zero -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJQ+hzDAAoJEKXdFCfdEflK0UYP/AmqXGE4OGqMMgya5qt/9XRJ +9Ys4Ya3iBHnEnhiHyFCYr1IDrIHMMzEv1v9uRrbMnVkDgiYyE4ELpsovM60uZOG pRXA5MpdqKU4J+GTbTLQ9tDJ1EEtHEmlMA5y2cFF582r0Gzkz+1ygsM07KIHFfDE ts6kltTqmMF8D6JoUy5ABQnjtv3NMlIC7AIOx3OQzB61xI3rZmSgwS/n1ta3vw+c Mb1T0AzQxRJS6hh6Ydq3rBbR7OceMWfzOg5Mo4mz/UdKYJjvgvSmXiJ6EqsoBLWy v5ITcD8WN4orMbZCymCYTYmI/lza8VhVo+kHBkgEbpAZlS9cHpmVKkEZ7qY8q5OM h0qBQEm6iur1c8Khu8YgDjGwrbZSPp91H5w9cudqoZC/jJMhnIJTL5ZVBRs5l+W1 /YE+jtJMWiXWKpsH9oIiPz15MDuZxU5vJN0XE676Qo6YO2bNZVndENTX+Hg4BDEs ZiUkOgRlvnmcfHx2rZsFJUsjrI0XDyjDcEhXaep9p7STWGO2acEVwFVfU9buMUMF YltMTioUs/rxIAYRujyHrvj/y2l3mwHe1f6l/AI0ARhJcIjUo9Ek6mtUB35GyPuI 0x8dRSnvWpO4TeS3aRRbZiIqdmCYSUP6bIbdcjWotANZWS/dRE/CxpPa62qJlsV6 r5t6p8ttHewzLfS9pquE =RRAI -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 01:02:04AM +0100, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote:
> Markos Chandras schrieb:
> > On 18 January 2013 23:29, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
> > wrote:
> >> Because it should be enabled when the respective packages are
> >> installed, and not depending on the profile the user has selected.
> > Hell, as discussed, the base profile should contain the absolute
> > minimal flags, and "dri" does not appear to be one of these.
> > Having graphics support on such a profile is not expected. IMHO it
> > should be moved to the desktop profile
> >
>
> If you have an absolute minimal system, then none of your packages will
> have the dri flag. So it won't hurt. If you remove the dri flag from the
> default profile, this will break users' setups for no good reason.
>
> Moving to EAPI=1 USE defaults would be an alternative if the dri flag is
> deemed unacceptable for the default profile, but in my opinion a
> pointless exercise as it would change precisely zero systems.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
>
>
And now I'm going to reverse my original vote. The only packages that
have the `dri' USE flag are in the x11-{drivers,libs} categories. As
such, it doesn't matter very much whether or not `dri' is in the base
profile. Better to leave it than remove it seeing as Chí-Thanh says,
it will have less of an impact on the users.
--
Mr. Aaron W. Swenson
Gentoo Linux Developer
Email : titanof...@gentoo.org
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GnuPG ID : D1BBFDA0
pgp0ClIZVb_p5.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
Markos Chandras schrieb: > On 18 January 2013 23:29, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn > wrote: >> Because it should be enabled when the respective packages are >> installed, and not depending on the profile the user has selected. > Hell, as discussed, the base profile should contain the absolute > minimal flags, and "dri" does not appear to be one of these. > Having graphics support on such a profile is not expected. IMHO it > should be moved to the desktop profile > If you have an absolute minimal system, then none of your packages will have the dri flag. So it won't hurt. If you remove the dri flag from the default profile, this will break users' setups for no good reason. Moving to EAPI=1 USE defaults would be an alternative if the dri flag is deemed unacceptable for the default profile, but in my opinion a pointless exercise as it would change precisely zero systems. Best regards, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 23:58:22 + "Aaron W. Swenson" wrote: > > Hell, as discussed, the base profile should contain the absolute > > minimal flags, and "dri" does not appear to be one of these. > > Having graphics support on such a profile is not expected. IMHO it > > should be moved to the desktop profile > > > > ++ If the base profile is to become our server profile, it should not > have graphics related USE flags enabled. ...but that's not how USE flags work. It doesn't matter if you enable monkeys in the base profile, since the only people who are affected are people who install monkey-related packages. It doesn't affect server users. "Minimal" is irrelevant. -- Ciaran McCreesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:55:07PM +, Markos Chandras wrote: > On 18 January 2013 23:29, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn > wrote: > > Patrick McLean schrieb: > > > I would prefer to keep USE=dri in the default profile. If you > > > want to move VIDEO_CARDS that would be fine with me though. > > > > > > USE=dri is usually only relevant on desktops, why enable it on > > > all profiles? > > > > Because it should be enabled when the respective packages are > > installed, and not depending on the profile the user has selected. > > > > > > Best regards, > > Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn > > > > > > Hell, as discussed, the base profile should contain the absolute > minimal flags, and "dri" does not appear to be one of these. > Having graphics support on such a profile is not expected. IMHO it > should be moved to the desktop profile > ++ If the base profile is to become our server profile, it should not have graphics related USE flags enabled. -- Mr. Aaron W. Swenson Gentoo Linux Developer Email : titanof...@gentoo.org GnuPG FP : 2C00 7719 4F85 FB07 A49C 0E31 5713 AA03 D1BB FDA0 GnuPG ID : D1BBFDA0 pgpJrpEK6gSzG.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On 18 January 2013 23:29, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote: > Patrick McLean schrieb: >> > I would prefer to keep USE=dri in the default profile. If you want to move >> > VIDEO_CARDS that > would be fine with me though. >> >> USE=dri is usually only relevant on desktops, why enable it on all > profiles? > > Because it should be enabled when the respective packages are installed, > and not depending on the profile the user has selected. > > > Best regards, > Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn > > Hell, as discussed, the base profile should contain the absolute minimal flags, and "dri" does not appear to be one of these. Having graphics support on such a profile is not expected. IMHO it should be moved to the desktop profile -- Regards, Markos Chandras / Gentoo Linux Developer / Key ID: B4AFF2C2
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
Patrick McLean schrieb: > > I would prefer to keep USE=dri in the default profile. If you want to move > > VIDEO_CARDS that would be fine with me though. > > USE=dri is usually only relevant on desktops, why enable it on all profiles? Because it should be enabled when the respective packages are installed, and not depending on the profile the user has selected. Best regards, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 15:18:25 -0800 Patrick McLean wrote: > USE=dri is usually only relevant on desktops, why enable it on all > profiles? This question only matters if you expect there to be non-desktops where there are packages installed that IUSE dri. - -- Ciaran McCreesh -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlD52OMACgkQ96zL6DUtXhECCgCgkfNiAX7Z7M3piVUN21Hj/KAy kwsAoMPZISStAtGjk2uXtPT3FbOYox6W =uz0E -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 18/01/13 02:02 PM, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn wrote: > Andreas K. Huettel schrieb: >> * move setting USE=dri and USE=cups from default/linux/make.defaults to >> targets/desktop/make.defaults > > I would prefer to keep USE=dri in the default profile. If you want to move > VIDEO_CARDS that would be fine with me though. USE=dri is usually only relevant on desktops, why enable it on all profiles? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJQ+dhBAAoJEHy/RO9cNQiDLt8P/3C8r+WtNM991Z5pAGIbabOz ILTx2vvd2rDbo8RM+sCbr2elDF/WP0xntTwnTw3vxWMs8VC6/HZkM+LQLyaMMeMo tWK9MtV8R7+QZ7XDoOmVDSKe9U62XGlMnnpWV3B7A4s51y71vMqY+TNDBneJWvTz nh780899va7BVCyRtQ8ed6XjTPx2ft1bDNLr5Vcms3vp0yHXarvgqBXLJjh/Zec1 a+S1IwETNMaTr4Lg2ps5zKgoMvUb6bGTEpo4cksTAHUjISYRRJHyxhZOON2fPOw5 a1RNH0i0fWfipEU3XP5KMgH/mQYu4KNob3LjlKHuspUDjYbfeFkkYyC7jBAucioE Z5YUfPKXPmE1tzQy59Ld0xQTXdrxES+uWwk1XC3UG+iGgKByk5rEyBX7RX3+brQQ QdAcBuRBzZtrfAK9B9Un6jBE1bX81o/twiVvu3aTCHXXgGKuEUWfnLmjcJnuj0KE pWyA3xYfPM11eTq5aWivizChSm7pJxcrR8+GDx4c24mlvJxb0vpuinZJlkaASVIZ Ncvgmk8+d/L1f32Xeyz4GMDU2SzQA8lTdeUK9E7XyRRcZJOFPpdYMSIhYXAMD9SV A8vU/zRTjAwrQ6OGVzHxowKQ6Av4pajv7hXeq7pW+dnxURdcOGMV+mbDZ1Qj4kOh QKuxdgZxOAchIF2TSEq0 =ryu6 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
Andreas K. Huettel schrieb: > * move setting USE=dri and USE=cups from default/linux/make.defaults to > targets/desktop/make.defaults I would prefer to keep USE=dri in the default profile. If you want to move VIDEO_CARDS that would be fine with me though. Best regards, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Andreas K. Huettel wrote: > > During the server profile discussion, it became clear that we could clean up > the base profiles a bit. This is unrelated to the profile versions, as the > change would affect all versions (well, at least without bigger changes). > > What I suggested and what djc and kensington supported was: > > * move setting USE=dri and USE=cups from default/linux/make.defaults to > targets/desktop/make.defaults > > * remove setting USE=pppd in default/linux/make.defaults, instead have it > default to on in net-dialup/capi4k-utils (the only place where it is used) > > Opinions? > +1 Thanks, Davide
Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
On Friday 18 January 2013 15:49:38 Andreas K. Huettel wrote: > During the server profile discussion, it became clear that we could clean > up the base profiles a bit. This is unrelated to the profile versions, as > the change would affect all versions (well, at least without bigger > changes). > > What I suggested and what djc and kensington supported was: > > * move setting USE=dri and USE=cups from default/linux/make.defaults to > targets/desktop/make.defaults > > * remove setting USE=pppd in default/linux/make.defaults, instead have it > default to on in net-dialup/capi4k-utils (the only place where it is used) +1 -mike signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-dev] USE flags dri, cups, pppd
During the server profile discussion, it became clear that we could clean up the base profiles a bit. This is unrelated to the profile versions, as the change would affect all versions (well, at least without bigger changes). What I suggested and what djc and kensington supported was: * move setting USE=dri and USE=cups from default/linux/make.defaults to targets/desktop/make.defaults * remove setting USE=pppd in default/linux/make.defaults, instead have it default to on in net-dialup/capi4k-utils (the only place where it is used) Opinions? Cheers, A -- Andreas K. Huettel Gentoo Linux developer dilfri...@gentoo.org http://www.akhuettel.de/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
