[gentoo-dev] What the hell is going on here?
Every single QA commit review coming into my Inbox during the past week was directed to arfrever. I *know* he is on probation, I *know* he made mistakes - in fact every one makes mistakes. But you guys are hammering all over him for picky stuff. Remind you that while it is a pleasure to be member of Gentoo, we are not your slaves; we chose to spend our free time contributing to Gentoo for several reasons - fun, knowledge and team work. Satisfying somebody else's flavors and wishes is certainly *not* one of them. I never had the chance to talk with arfrever, nor I ever looked to his work at Gentoo. But there is one thing I definitely got right, he has a lot of motivation to continue in Gentoo and *offer* his time and knowledge, otherwise he would just raise the middle finger and go away after all of this bashing. Best regards, -- Angelo Arrifano AKA MiKNiX Gentoo Embedded developer GPE maintainer http://www.gentoo.org/~miknix http://miknix.homelinux.com
Re: [gentoo-dev] What the hell is going on here?
On Friday 17 of September 2010 12:41:51 Angelo Arrifano wrote: Every single QA commit review coming into my Inbox during the past week was directed to arfrever. I *know* he is on probation, I *know* he made mistakes - in fact every one makes mistakes. But you guys are hammering all over him for picky stuff. Remind you that while it is a pleasure to be member of Gentoo, we are not your slaves; we chose to spend our free time contributing to Gentoo for several reasons - fun, knowledge and team work. Satisfying somebody else's flavors and wishes is certainly *not* one of them. I never had the chance to talk with arfrever, nor I ever looked to his work at Gentoo. But there is one thing I definitely got right, he has a lot of motivation to continue in Gentoo and *offer* his time and knowledge, otherwise he would just raise the middle finger and go away after all of this bashing. The other important thing is such lecturing should probably take place in private, like gentoo-core. -- regards MM signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] What the hell is going on here?
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:51:52PM +0200, Maciej Mrozowski wrote: On Friday 17 of September 2010 12:41:51 Angelo Arrifano wrote: Every single QA commit review coming into my Inbox during the past week was directed to arfrever. I *know* he is on probation, I *know* he made mistakes - in fact every one makes mistakes. But you guys are hammering all over him for picky stuff. Remind you that while it is a pleasure to be member of Gentoo, we are not your slaves; we chose to spend our free time contributing to Gentoo for several reasons - fun, knowledge and team work. Satisfying somebody else's flavors and wishes is certainly *not* one of them. I never had the chance to talk with arfrever, nor I ever looked to his work at Gentoo. But there is one thing I definitely got right, he has a lot of motivation to continue in Gentoo and *offer* his time and knowledge, otherwise he would just raise the middle finger and go away after all of this bashing. The other important thing is such lecturing should probably take place in private, like gentoo-core. -- regards MM Well, Angelo is quite right for posting in this ML because QA members wants anything to be publicly visible. Angelo, I do agree with you. It seems like everyone is forcing himself to find mistakes on Arfrevers commits even the slightest one. Whilst I do agree that pointing the mistakes is a good thing, however I am totally against targeting one person just to satisfy our ego. So I you spot a commit mistake and report it via the ML make sure you do it again when someone != Arfrever do it in the future. Bye -- Markos Chandras (hwoarang) Gentoo Linux Developer Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org Key ID: 441AC410 Key FP: AAD0 8591 E3CD 445D 6411 3477 F7F7 1E8E 441A C410 pgpvw0X5tLFnN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] What the hell is going on here?
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 03:52:03PM +0100, Markos Chandras wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:51:52PM +0200, Maciej Mrozowski wrote: On Friday 17 of September 2010 12:41:51 Angelo Arrifano wrote: Every single QA commit review coming into my Inbox during the past week was directed to arfrever. I *know* he is on probation, I *know* he made mistakes - in fact every one makes mistakes. But you guys are hammering all over him for picky stuff. Remind you that while it is a pleasure to be member of Gentoo, we are not your slaves; we chose to spend our free time contributing to Gentoo for several reasons - fun, knowledge and team work. Satisfying somebody else's flavors and wishes is certainly *not* one of them. I never had the chance to talk with arfrever, nor I ever looked to his work at Gentoo. But there is one thing I definitely got right, he has a lot of motivation to continue in Gentoo and *offer* his time and knowledge, otherwise he would just raise the middle finger and go away after all of this bashing. The other important thing is such lecturing should probably take place in private, like gentoo-core. -- regards MM Well, Angelo is quite right for posting in this ML because QA members wants anything to be publicly visible. Angelo, I do agree with you. It seems like everyone is forcing himself to find mistakes on Arfrevers commits even the slightest one. Whilst I do agree that pointing the mistakes is a good thing, however I am totally against targeting one person just to satisfy our ego. So I you spot a commit mistake and report it via the ML make sure you do it again when someone != Arfrever do it in the future. Bye -- Markos Chandras (hwoarang) Gentoo Linux Developer Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org Key ID: 441AC410 Key FP: AAD0 8591 E3CD 445D 6411 3477 F7F7 1E8E 441A C410 I don't think ego has anything to do with this. Arfrever brought this on himself. His [multiple] past mistakes and lack of cooperation are forcing the other devs to screen all his commits now, to make sure history doesn't repeat itself. Angelo, while I agree with your general thoughts on why everyone is contributing, I believe you should have gathered more intel before sending an email like this. We do respect Arfrever's motivation, we just need to make sure it translates to good, trustworthy work. If we didn't, his request to return to Gentoo would have been denied. Regards, -- Alex Alexander | wired Gentoo Linux Developer | Council / Qt / Chromium / more www.linuxized.com pgp6PWiLHdmMh.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] What the hell is going on here?
On Friday 17 September 2010 18:33:01 Alex Alexander wrote: I don't think ego has anything to do with this. Arfrever brought this on himself. His [multiple] past mistakes and lack of cooperation are forcing the other devs to screen all his commits now, to make sure history doesn't repeat itself. I object here, I asked Arfrever's help (either with python or python ebuilds) and every time I got some great feedback. Angelo, while I agree with your general thoughts on why everyone is contributing, I believe you should have gathered more intel before sending an email like this. We do respect Arfrever's motivation, we just need to make sure it translates to good, trustworthy work. If we didn't, his request to return to Gentoo would have been denied. and I don't agree with this part, no need to say anything more than the previous guys said. Regards, -- Theo Chatzimichos (tampakrap) Gentoo KDE/Qt, Planet, Overlays signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] What the hell is going on here?
On Friday 17 of September 2010 16:52:03 Markos Chandras wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:51:52PM +0200, Maciej Mrozowski wrote: On Friday 17 of September 2010 12:41:51 Angelo Arrifano wrote: Every single QA commit review coming into my Inbox during the past week was directed to arfrever. I *know* he is on probation, I *know* he made mistakes - in fact every one makes mistakes. But you guys are hammering all over him for picky stuff. Remind you that while it is a pleasure to be member of Gentoo, we are not your slaves; we chose to spend our free time contributing to Gentoo for several reasons - fun, knowledge and team work. Satisfying somebody else's flavors and wishes is certainly *not* one of them. I never had the chance to talk with arfrever, nor I ever looked to his work at Gentoo. But there is one thing I definitely got right, he has a lot of motivation to continue in Gentoo and *offer* his time and knowledge, otherwise he would just raise the middle finger and go away after all of this bashing. The other important thing is such lecturing should probably take place in private, like gentoo-core. Well, Angelo is quite right for posting in this ML because QA members wants anything to be publicly visible. No, I mean, lecturing Arfrever should take place in private... -- regards MM signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] What the hell is going on here?
Am 17.09.2010 17:38, schrieb Theo Chatzimichos: On Friday 17 September 2010 18:33:01 Alex Alexander wrote: I don't think ego has anything to do with this. Arfrever brought this on himself. His [multiple] past mistakes and lack of cooperation are forcing the other devs to screen all his commits now, to make sure history doesn't repeat itself. I object here, I asked Arfrever's help (either with python or python ebuilds) and every time I got some great feedback. I hope, you dont require every dev to have made bad experience with something or someone, before a change is requested. ;-) Anyway, we should not go too much into detail, Arfrever did make some mistakes in the past and because of this, some people do look at his actions very closely, so it wont happen again. I hope, you can accept that. Otherwise, i suggest to move this to a more private channel like pm or private mail since it is not planned to place all details onto public mailing lists. ;-) -- Thomas Sachau Gentoo Linux Developer signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] What the hell is going on here?
On 17-09-2010 17:33, Alex Alexander wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 03:52:03PM +0100, Markos Chandras wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:51:52PM +0200, Maciej Mrozowski wrote: On Friday 17 of September 2010 12:41:51 Angelo Arrifano wrote: Every single QA commit review coming into my Inbox during the past week was directed to arfrever. I *know* he is on probation, I *know* he made mistakes - in fact every one makes mistakes. But you guys are hammering all over him for picky stuff. Remind you that while it is a pleasure to be member of Gentoo, we are not your slaves; we chose to spend our free time contributing to Gentoo for several reasons - fun, knowledge and team work. Satisfying somebody else's flavors and wishes is certainly *not* one of them. I never had the chance to talk with arfrever, nor I ever looked to his work at Gentoo. But there is one thing I definitely got right, he has a lot of motivation to continue in Gentoo and *offer* his time and knowledge, otherwise he would just raise the middle finger and go away after all of this bashing. The other important thing is such lecturing should probably take place in private, like gentoo-core. -- regards MM Well, Angelo is quite right for posting in this ML because QA members wants anything to be publicly visible. Angelo, I do agree with you. It seems like everyone is forcing himself to find mistakes on Arfrevers commits even the slightest one. Whilst I do agree that pointing the mistakes is a good thing, however I am totally against targeting one person just to satisfy our ego. So I you spot a commit mistake and report it via the ML make sure you do it again when someone != Arfrever do it in the future. Bye -- Markos Chandras (hwoarang) Gentoo Linux Developer Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org Key ID: 441AC410 Key FP: AAD0 8591 E3CD 445D 6411 3477 F7F7 1E8E 441A C410 I don't think ego has anything to do with this. Arfrever brought this on himself. His [multiple] past mistakes and lack of cooperation are forcing the other devs to screen all his commits now, to make sure history doesn't repeat itself. «forcing other devs to screen all his commits now» - like torture and pay-back? That's exactly what I feel it is entirely wrong. It just makes Gentoo look bad. Anyway, I think QA should keep their commit acceptability threshold in the same level for everyone. Of course this is easier to say than to do, we are humans after all, and feelings are always involved. Usually, personal interference is avoided by making the review process blind. That is, the person that commits would remain anonymous during the QA review process, but this is hard to apply in practice. Regards, - Angelo Angelo, while I agree with your general thoughts on why everyone is contributing, I believe you should have gathered more intel before sending an email like this. We do respect Arfrever's motivation, we just need to make sure it translates to good, trustworthy work. If we didn't, his request to return to Gentoo would have been denied. Regards,
Re: [gentoo-dev] What the hell is going on here?
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 06:38:48PM +0300, Theo Chatzimichos wrote: On Friday 17 September 2010 18:33:01 Alex Alexander wrote: I don't think ego has anything to do with this. Arfrever brought this on himself. His [multiple] past mistakes and lack of cooperation are forcing the other devs to screen all his commits now, to make sure history doesn't repeat itself. I object here, I asked Arfrever's help (either with python or python ebuilds) and every time I got some great feedback. Thats great! I never claimed he wasn't *helpful*. Accepting critisism and suggestions from fellow devs is something completely different. Angelo, while I agree with your general thoughts on why everyone is contributing, I believe you should have gathered more intel before sending an email like this. We do respect Arfrever's motivation, we just need to make sure it translates to good, trustworthy work. If we didn't, his request to return to Gentoo would have been denied. and I don't agree with this part, no need to say anything more than the previous guys said. Why? Do you feel we don't respect his motivation? Do you believe his commits don't require screening after the recent events? I'm sure no-one really wants to see Arfrever, or any other dev, go. Then again, no-one wants a broken tree either, so checking everything down to the smallest detail for a while won't hurt that much. Regards, -- Theo Chatzimichos (tampakrap) Gentoo KDE/Qt, Planet, Overlays -- Alex Alexander | wired Gentoo Linux Developer | Council / Qt / Chromium / more www.linuxized.com pgp5ecJVM1TkW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] What the hell is going on here?
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 06:04:31PM +0200, Angelo Arrifano wrote: «forcing other devs to screen all his commits now» - like torture and pay-back? That's exactly what I feel it is entirely wrong. It just makes Gentoo look bad. Anyway, I think QA should keep their commit acceptability threshold in the same level for everyone. Of course this is easier to say than to do, we are humans after all, and feelings are always involved. Usually, personal interference is avoided by making the review process blind. That is, the person that commits would remain anonymous during the QA review process, but this is hard to apply in practice. Regards, - Angelo This is a matter of perspective. To you it might look like torture and pay-back, but for the guys doing it it could be making sure he follows all the guidelines. I can understand how easy it is to confuse those two if you aren't fully informed, though. To avoid communicating the wrong message to people outside Gentoo, following Maciej's proposal to lecture Arfrever in -core would be a good idea. Regards, -- Alex Alexander | wired Gentoo Linux Developer | Council / Qt / Chromium / more www.linuxized.com pgpFWwlGodl7b.pgp Description: PGP signature
