On 19-09-2011 19:19:12 -0400, Joshua Kinard wrote:
Really, MacOS's filesystem layout is not something anyone in their right
mind should deign to mimic/copy.
I didn't get that from either of the links you posted. Seems to me the
systemd developers are looking at the split as a
On 09/15/2011 10:33, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
Hi Devs,
Not sure if you are aware of the discussions on the gentoo-user list about
the
upcoming change where systemd and udev require /usr to be available prior to
starting of udev.
What is systemd again?
Yes, some of us live in a tiny box
On 09/18/2011 13:26, Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
I don't see how this is relevant to the problem of udev and /usr at
all. Unless you want to go back to the days of devfs and lots of
manual configuration. :)
Me either (somewhat). But I do see is this: If udev is going to make it a
requirement
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 03:59:43 -0400
Joshua Kinard ku...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 09/15/2011 10:33, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
Hi Devs,
Not sure if you are aware of the discussions on the gentoo-user
list about the upcoming change where systemd and udev require /usr
to be available prior to
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Joshua Kinard ku...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 09/18/2011 13:26, Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
I don't see how this is relevant to the problem of udev and /usr at
all. Unless you want to go back to the days of devfs and lots of
manual configuration. :)
Me either
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 04:15:02 -0400
Joshua Kinard ku...@gentoo.org wrote:
But if udev upstream is taking *away* choice, and making /usr
mandatory (especially if it's because some other distro has this
offbeat, utopian, überDesktop concept), then that's a bug and someone
needs to write a patch
On 09/19/2011 04:25, Alec Warner wrote:
If 'someone' needs to write a patch then I
assume you will volunteer?
My C is getting better. Don't tempt me...
--
Joshua Kinard
Gentoo/MIPS
ku...@gentoo.org
4096R/D25D95E3 2011-03-28
The past tempts us, the present confuses us, the future frightens
On 09/19/2011 04:33, Michał Górny wrote:
Does the patch involve moving even more stuff to rootfs? If I'm going
to see /share directory or even more /usr/share files in /lib, then I'm
probably going to fork something too.
Per our original discussion, isn't the only file udev is looking for
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 04:57:10 -0400
Joshua Kinard ku...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 09/19/2011 04:33, Michał Górny wrote:
Does the patch involve moving even more stuff to rootfs? If I'm
going to see /share directory or even more /usr/share files
in /lib, then I'm probably going to fork
Michał Górny wrote:
This should cut all the complaints and possibly let us move some
stuff back to /usr where it belongs.
Not all the complaints.
Dale
:-) :-)
On 09/19/2011 05:10, Michał Górny wrote:
Could we stop putting random stuff in random dirs because 'it will
work'? /etc is _SYSCONFDIR_. I don't see how PCI IDs are config at all.
The best answer is for someone to look into udev and see what it needs
exactly from /usr. Does it really need
On 19 September 2011 16:07, Joshua Kinard ku...@gentoo.org wrote:
[...]
Yes, but some of us don't even want to have that initramfs built into our
kernels. And no one, other than freedesktop.org* and a few people on
linux-hotplug-devel*, said everything belongs in /usr. FHS clearly defines
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 06:37:49AM -0400, Joshua Kinard wrote:
On 09/19/2011 05:10, Michał Górny wrote:
Could we stop putting random stuff in random dirs because 'it will
work'? /etc is _SYSCONFDIR_. I don't see how PCI IDs are config at all.
The best answer is for someone to look
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Greg KH gre...@gentoo.org wrote:
Note: I'm brainstorming here. Anyone else?
It's as if people are just totally ignoring what has already been
discussed here, why should we even pay attention to this anymore?
I agree that this is getting a bit off-topic. If
On 19/09/2011 19:36, Greg KH wrote:
And for those udev/systemd haters, you all do know about devtmpfs,
right? If not, {sigh}, I don't even know why I care anymore...
greg sick of it all k-h
I'm wondering is if devtmpfs covers what is needed to mount /usr so the
new and grand udev can do all
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:46:39PM +0200, Luca Barbato wrote:
On 19/09/2011 19:36, Greg KH wrote:
And for those udev/systemd haters, you all do know about devtmpfs,
right? If not, {sigh}, I don't even know why I care anymore...
greg sick of it all k-h
I'm wondering is if devtmpfs
On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 4:10 AM, Greg KH gre...@gentoo.org wrote:
p.s. and yes, this is the only reasonable explanation for this whole
thread, especially given the fact that this whole thing is explained in
extreme detail on the freedesktop.org site, and it has been beaten to
death on this
On 09/19/2011 07:17, Arun Raghavan wrote:
On 19 September 2011 16:07, Joshua Kinard ku...@gentoo.org wrote:
[...]
Yes, but some of us don't even want to have that initramfs built into our
kernels. And no one, other than freedesktop.org* and a few people on
linux-hotplug-devel*, said
On 09/19/2011 13:36, Greg KH wrote:
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 06:37:49AM -0400, Joshua Kinard wrote:
On 09/19/2011 05:10, Michał Górny wrote:
Could we stop putting random stuff in random dirs because 'it will
work'? /etc is _SYSCONFDIR_. I don't see how PCI IDs are config at all.
The best
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Joshua Kinard ku...@gentoo.org wrote:
Host-specific / and host-independent /usr is not itself a bad idea. I can
envision quite a few useful scenarios for this. But on a single box, why?
And for those of us with differing architectures, how would this add any
On 09/19/2011 20:29, Rich Freeman wrote:
See:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/UsrMove
That is some of the rationale for Fedora. It isn't a bad idea both
for destop-oriented and server-oriented setups. It especially makes
sense for a more traditional distro with versioned
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Joshua Kinard ku...@gentoo.org wrote:
That's what I take issue with -- the whims of a commercial enterprise
ultimately deciding, at some possible, future point, what path we take. In
other words, those of us not running cluster farms shouldn't have to change
On 09/19/2011 03:40 PM, Greg KH wrote:
Oh wait, this all is a joke on me, right? Ok, that makes more sense,
hahaha, you all got me, good one.
Yes, very funny indeed. It's good to keep your sense of humor.
Sorry, I was being slow here, next time I'll get it quicker, nice one
people.
Now
On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 1:43 AM, Luca Barbato lu_z...@gentoo.org wrote:
I think putting more pressure so systemd isn't given as granted would be
more healthy for both those who are not using it (because, again, is an
aberration for any kind of daemon not written for it) and those that want to
On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 08:38:31 -0400
Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote:
Is there something in particular that is causing alarm with systemd?
All I've seen is a package in the tree and some discussion. I'm sure
there will be requests for various packages to install some files
needed for
On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 6:19 PM, Michał Górny mgo...@gentoo.org wrote:
No, there isn't anything traumatic. The only thing systemd folks are
doing is nicely asking devs to include systemd unit files whenever
necessary or use the eclass whenever upstream supplies those files.
In other words,
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On 18-09-2011 12:59, Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 6:19 PM, Michał Górny mgo...@gentoo.org
wrote:
No, there isn't anything traumatic. The only thing systemd folks
are doing is nicely asking devs to include systemd unit files
On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 14:27:02 +
Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto jmbsvice...@gentoo.org wrote:
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On 18-09-2011 12:59, Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 6:19 PM, Michał Górny mgo...@gentoo.org
wrote:
No, there isn't anything
On Saturday, September 17, 2011 06:40:03 PM Robin H. Johnson wrote:
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:36:27AM +0200, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
(The other reason I think systemd and udev might merge at some point, or
at least have good IPC between them, because there is a potential for
speed gains
On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 7:57 PM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
jmbsvice...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 18-09-2011 12:59, Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
I'm astonished by the large amount of misinformation that is being
spread around about systemd. If this originated on the gentoo-user
mailing list, I'm
On 09/18/2011 07:27 AM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
You mean that no Linux users, in particular anyone not running or not
wanting to run GNOME and Fedora, shouldn't be worried about the way
some people in the GNOME and Fedora community seem intent to impose
their ways to everyone else?
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:36:27AM +0200, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
Either udev does this already and the execution sequence is always the
same. In which case my suggestion above would follow the same sequence
as the queue would be on a First-in First-out basis.
Or, if udev doesn't do
On 9/15/11 1:33 PM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 09:31:45 PM Luca Barbato wrote:
On 15/09/2011 16:33, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
Hi Devs,
Not sure if you are aware of the discussions on the gentoo-user list
about the upcoming change where systemd and udev require /usr to
On Friday, September 16, 2011 12:27:19 AM Michał Górny wrote:
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 00:13:15 +0200
Joost Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
I think systemd is nice for desktops/laptops. But on servers it seems
to be overkill to me and as I umount filesystems as part of my
backup-scripts,
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 08:32:17 PM Rich Freeman wrote:
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Joost Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
Will the ebuild automatically add all the different modules into the
/etc/dracut.conf ?
Please note, I am asking these questions to put my mind at ease
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 09:25:12AM +0200, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
I've found that dracut is pretty auto-magic by default and the config file
doesn't generally need tampering. Most of the options are to NOT load
modules or to minimize the initramfs size by figuring out what modules are
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 10:18:27 PM Robin H. Johnson wrote:
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 11:00:47PM +0200, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
See below on the existing udev retry queue that is hiding many of
the
issues from you. This hidden issues are also negatively affecting
boot
times
Hi Devs,
Not sure if you are aware of the discussions on the gentoo-user list about the
upcoming change where systemd and udev require /usr to be available prior to
starting of udev.
I would like to know what the position of the Gentoo developers is with
regarding this and how best to deal
On 09/15/2011 07:33 AM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
The use for an initrd/initramfs/... will create an additional layer of
complexity a lot of us users are not really waiting for, especially as we are
not seeing any issues with our current systems.
Like it or not, it's the simplest possible
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 08:07:35 AM Zac Medico wrote:
On 09/15/2011 07:33 AM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
The use for an initrd/initramfs/... will create an additional layer of
complexity a lot of us users are not really waiting for, especially as
we are not seeing any issues with our
On 09/15/2011 09:04 AM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
Thank you for your response, however, I do have a few questions about this.
Where will this default initramfs actually need to be placed?
It should be similar to how sys-apps/v86d is used for uvesafb support.
It installs /usr/share/v86d/initramfs
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Zac Medico zmed...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 09/15/2011 07:33 AM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
The use for an initrd/initramfs/... will create an additional layer of
complexity a lot of us users are not really waiting for, especially as we
are
not seeing any issues
On 15/09/2011 16:33, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
Hi Devs,
Not sure if you are aware of the discussions on the gentoo-user list about
the
upcoming change where systemd and udev require /usr to be available prior to
starting of udev.
systemd seems more and more just a support burden for no
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 04:33:01PM +0200, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
The use for an initrd/initramfs/... will create an additional layer of
complexity a lot of us users are not really waiting for, especially as we are
not seeing any issues with our current systems.
See below on the existing udev
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 09:27:06 AM Zac Medico wrote:
On 09/15/2011 09:04 AM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
Thank you for your response, however, I do have a few questions about
this. Where will this default initramfs actually need to be placed?
It should be similar to how sys-apps/v86d
On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:03:53 +0200
Joost Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
I'm trying to think of how best to avoid users who are not aware to
get caught with non-booting systems.
Guess we could try to detect a few common cases and die in pkg_setup()
whenever the failure is imminent.
--
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Joost Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 09:27:06 AM Zac Medico wrote:
It should be similar to how sys-apps/v86d is used for uvesafb support.
It installs /usr/share/v86d/initramfs and when you configure your
kernel, you set
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 10:03:53PM +0200, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 09:27:06 AM Zac Medico wrote:
On 09/15/2011 09:04 AM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
Thank you for your response, however, I do have a few questions about
this. Where will this default initramfs
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 09:31:45 PM Luca Barbato wrote:
On 15/09/2011 16:33, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
Hi Devs,
Not sure if you are aware of the discussions on the gentoo-user list
about the upcoming change where systemd and udev require /usr to be
available prior to starting of
On 09/15/2011 01:03 PM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 09:27:06 AM Zac Medico wrote:
On 09/15/2011 09:04 AM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
Thank you for your response, however, I do have a few questions about
this. Where will this default initramfs actually need to be placed?
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 16:14:20 Michał Górny wrote:
On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:03:53 +0200 Joost Roeleveld wrote:
I'm trying to think of how best to avoid users who are not aware to
get caught with non-booting systems.
Guess we could try to detect a few common cases and die in
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 02:29:20 PM Rich Freeman wrote:
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Zac Medico zmed...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 09/15/2011 07:33 AM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
The use for an initrd/initramfs/... will create an additional layer
of
complexity a lot of us users are
On 9/15/11 1:14 PM, Michał Górny wrote:
On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:03:53 +0200
Joost Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
I'm trying to think of how best to avoid users who are not aware to
get caught with non-booting systems.
Guess we could try to detect a few common cases and die in
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Joost Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
It is my understanding all the options need to be specified every time
dracut
is run to create an initramfs. If this becomes mandatory, will this be
added
to the make script of the kernel-sources and as such, make
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 09:27:06AM -0700, Zac Medico wrote:
On 09/15/2011 09:04 AM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
Thank you for your response, however, I do have a few questions about this.
Where will this default initramfs actually need to be placed?
It should be similar to how sys-apps/v86d is
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 07:41:57 PM Robin H. Johnson wrote:
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 04:33:01PM +0200, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
The use for an initrd/initramfs/... will create an additional layer of
complexity a lot of us users are not really waiting for, especially as
we are not
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 01:45:23PM -0700, Paweee Hajdan, Jr. wrote:
On 9/15/11 1:14 PM, Michał Górny wrote:
On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:03:53 +0200
Joost Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
I'm trying to think of how best to avoid users who are not aware to
get caught with non-booting
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 04:54:38 PM Rich Freeman wrote:
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Joost Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
It is my understanding all the options need to be specified every time
dracut
is run to create an initramfs. If this becomes mandatory, will this be
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 04:27:35 PM Rich Freeman wrote:
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Joost Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 09:27:06 AM Zac Medico wrote:
It should be similar to how sys-apps/v86d is used for uvesafb
support.
It installs
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 08:31:51 PM Robin H. Johnson wrote:
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 10:03:53PM +0200, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 09:27:06 AM Zac Medico wrote:
On 09/15/2011 09:04 AM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
Thank you for your response, however, I do
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 01:34:50 PM Zac Medico wrote:
On 09/15/2011 01:03 PM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
But, with udev then failing, will there be the /dev-entries to mount the
different partitions to fix the environment?
I the preferred approach is to enable CONFIG_DEVTMPFS=y and
On Thursday, September 15, 2011 03:56:19 PM William Hubbs wrote:
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 09:27:06AM -0700, Zac Medico wrote:
On 09/15/2011 09:04 AM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
Thank you for your response, however, I do have a few questions
about this. Where will this default initramfs
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 11:00:47PM +0200, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
See below on the existing udev retry queue that is hiding many of the
issues from you. This hidden issues are also negatively affecting boot
times (failures and retries take time).
I don't actually mind too much about the boot
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 00:13:15 +0200
Joost Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
I think systemd is nice for desktops/laptops. But on servers it seems
to be overkill to me and as I umount filesystems as part of my
backup-scripts, having something force-mount them in the background
is going to
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Joost Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
Will the ebuild automatically add all the different modules into the
/etc/dracut.conf ?
Please note, I am asking these questions to put my mind at ease and
hopefully
be able to explain all this back to the people on
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