On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:20:13 -0400
Richard Yao r...@gentoo.org wrote:
An often cited benefit of the /usr merge is the ability to put
everything but /etc on NFS and for that reason, we need to force an
initramfs on people happily using /usr without it.
Are you going to send a single mail for
On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:54:16 -0400
Richard Yao r...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 07/17/2012 07:07 PM, Olivier Crête wrote:
On Tue, 2012-07-17 at 18:41 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
If somebody really is pushing for an all-out /usr move by all means
speak up, but I think that basically what everybody
On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:20:13 -0400
Richard Yao r...@gentoo.org wrote:
Dear Everyone,
An often cited benefit of the /usr merge is the ability to put
everything but /etc on NFS and for that reason, we need to force an
initramfs on people happily using /usr without it.
You forgot about /var.
Michał Górny posted on Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:18:49 +0200 as excerpted:
Didn't you see Lennart's opinions on Gentoo Linux? I don't think their
refusal needed to be expressed at all.
I don't believe I did. Link?
(FWIW I expect I'll eventually switch to systemd, but there's no hurry,
and IMO it
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 09:49:24 + (UTC)
Duncan 1i5t5.dun...@cox.net wrote:
Michał Górny posted on Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:18:49 +0200 as excerpted:
Didn't you see Lennart's opinions on Gentoo Linux? I don't think
their refusal needed to be expressed at all.
I don't believe I did. Link?
Michał Górny posted on Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:55:32 +0200 as excerpted:
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 09:49:24 + (UTC)
Duncan 1i5t5.dun...@cox.net wrote:
Michał Górny posted on Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:18:49 +0200 as excerpted:
Didn't you see Lennart's opinions on Gentoo Linux? I don't think
their
On 07/18/2012 04:10 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:54:16 -0400
Richard Yao r...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 07/17/2012 07:07 PM, Olivier Crête wrote:
On Tue, 2012-07-17 at 18:41 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
If somebody really is pushing for an all-out /usr move by all means
speak
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:18 AM, Richard Yao r...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 07/18/2012 04:10 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:54:16 -0400
Richard Yao r...@gentoo.org wrote:
[snip]
The difference is simple. You put stuff into /sbin when you do not
want regular users to be able to
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 07:12:09PM -0500, William Hubbs wrote
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 07:19:48PM -0400, Richard Yao wrote:
Looking at @system and what it typically pulls into @world, the only
thing that might cause a problem is udev, although virtual/dev-manager
is in @system, rather
epatch is so widely used and basic that I wonder why it's still not
implemented as a real helper function.
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 5:33 PM, hasufell hasuf...@gentoo.org wrote:
epatch is so widely used and basic that I wonder why it's still not
implemented as a real helper function.
Because then its harder to change, it must be in PMS, otherwise you
have to do things like test which version of
Why should we care about ancient filesystems that didn't supported
long paths, and therefore we got stuck with /usr since we didn't
wanted to waste another *single* character to make it /user?
Because of it's original name: UNIX System Resources (usr).
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 5:33 PM, hasufell hasuf...@gentoo.org wrote:
epatch is so widely used and basic that I wonder why it's still not
implemented as a real helper function.
Because then its harder to change, it must be in PMS, otherwise you
have to do things like test which version of
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 08:13:51PM +0400, Hobbit wrote:
Why should we care about ancient filesystems that didn't supported
long paths, and therefore we got stuck with /usr since we didn't
wanted to waste another *single* character to make it /user?
Because of it's original name: UNIX
All,
i'm not using rabbitmq-server except as a dependency for
app-admin/chef and i've no interest or time to fix it. Feel free to
take it.
Regards,
Bene
On 11:26 Wed 18 Jul , William Hubbs wrote:
Actually this is not correct (see my earlier post with the link to
osnews.com).
Indeed. My bad.
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 18:18:35 +0200
Andreas K. Huettel dilfri...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 5:33 PM, hasufell hasuf...@gentoo.org
wrote:
epatch is so widely used and basic that I wonder why it's still
not implemented as a real helper function.
Because then its harder
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Hobbit little_hob...@lavabit.com wrote:
Why should we care about ancient filesystems that didn't supported
long paths, and therefore we got stuck with /usr since we didn't
wanted to waste another *single* character to make it /user?
Because of it's original
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:35:58 -0500
Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
All the arguments for keeping /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, and /usr/sbin
separated are really instances of the Chewbacca defense [1]. They just
don't make any sense.
All the arguments for changing things are just
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 1:07 AM, Olivier Crête tes...@gentoo.org wrote:
Also be ready for a merge of /bin and /sbin.. I'm sure most people can't
even explain the difference between them.
Whoa hey what why? Who's pushing this forward?
Our current policy [1] requires that ebuilds must assign the seven
variables DESCRIPTION, HOMEPAGE, SRC_URI, LICENSE, SLOT, KEYWORDS, and
IUSE, even if their value is empty.
Could we drop this requirement? Repoman already enforces that
DESCRIPTION, HOMEPAGE, LICENSE, SLOT, and KEYWORDS are
Many eclasses (eutils being the most prominent example) contain:
DESCRIPTION=Based on the ${ECLASS} eclass
Is this of any use?
Ulrich
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 18:40:12 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:35:58 -0500
Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
All the arguments for keeping /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, and /usr/sbin
separated are really instances of the Chewbacca defense
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 07:53:37PM +0200, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
Our current policy [1] requires that ebuilds must assign the seven
variables DESCRIPTION, HOMEPAGE, SRC_URI, LICENSE, SLOT, KEYWORDS, and
IUSE, even if their value is empty.
Could we drop this requirement? Repoman already
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
But it must be clear that all the rationale behind
said division was invented after the fact,
I would say that the rationale was not “invented”, but rather adapted
to an evolving system.
and (as Rob Landley said in
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Robin H. Johnson robb...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 07:53:37PM +0200, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
Our current policy [1] requires that ebuilds must assign the seven
variables DESCRIPTION, HOMEPAGE, SRC_URI, LICENSE, SLOT, KEYWORDS, and
IUSE, even if
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't mind the merge of /bin, /usr/bin, /sbin and /usr/sbin;
moreover, I want an even more radical change:
/usr - /System
/home - /Users
/etc - /Config
This would be a terrible idea, IMO. If you can rationalize
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 19:56:56 +0200
Ulrich Mueller u...@gentoo.org wrote:
Many eclasses (eutils being the most prominent example) contain:
DESCRIPTION=Based on the ${ECLASS} eclass
Is this of any use?
The reason that sort of thing is there is because in the olden days
before we had specs or
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
3. More support for mdev; e.g. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Mdev and
(still in beta) https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Mdev/Automount_USB The
next challenge is custom mdev rules, which should be do-able.
On 18-07-2012 14:11:07 -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
Worse, I think /home to /Users is an *egregiously* poor choice; any
native English speaker who has rudimenatry (or even intimate)
knowledge of how things previously worked would be very likely to
confuse /Users with the historical /usr.
You
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Michał Górny mgo...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 18:40:12 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:35:58 -0500
Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
All the arguments for keeping /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin,
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:35:02 -0400
Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 07:12:09PM -0500, William Hubbs wrote
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 07:19:48PM -0400, Richard Yao wrote:
Looking at @system and what it typically pulls into @world, the
only thing that might
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:25 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Michał Górny mgo...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 18:40:12 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh ciaran.mccre...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:35:58 -0500
Canek Peláez Valdés
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Alec Warner anta...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:25 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
[snip]
To me, it looks a lot like what once was / is now expected to be an
initramfs, which I find extraordinarily problematic, for the following
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Alec Warner anta...@gentoo.org wrote:
[snip]
Debian uses initramfs-tools...
AFAIK, neither genkernel nor dracut were expected to get tied to the
Gentoo update process. Has that changed?
The
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
AFAIK, neither genkernel nor dracut were expected to get tied to the
Gentoo update process. Has that changed?
We don't even update kernels as part of the regular update process,
let alone initramfs systems.
In general you
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Alec Warner anta...@gentoo.org wrote:
[snip]
Debian uses initramfs-tools...
AFAIK, neither genkernel nor dracut
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
AFAIK, neither genkernel nor dracut were expected to get tied to the
Gentoo update process. Has that changed?
We don't even update kernels as part of the
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Alec Warner anta...@gentoo.org wrote:
[snip]
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 15:12:14 -0400
Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés
can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Alec Warner anta...@gentoo.org
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
AFAIK, neither genkernel nor dracut were expected to get tied to the
Gentoo update
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
All,
I have received a request to allow OpenRC's init scripts to take command
line arguments [1]. As noted on the bug, there are some advantages to
this, but implementing it would have to break backward compatibility,
for example:
/etc/init.d/foo stop start
would no longer work the way you
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
AFAIK,
William Hubbs wrote:
/etc/init.d/foo stop start
would no longer work the way you might expect because there would be no
way to tell whether start is a command or an argument to stop.
What are your thoughts about this change?
/etc/init.d/foo stop start
along with all other commands can
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On 18/07/12 03:47 PM, Michael Mol wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés
can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com
wrote:
The real benefit is that it allows you to mount any
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On 18/07/12 03:49 PM, Peter Stuge wrote:
William Hubbs wrote:
/etc/init.d/foo stop start
would no longer work the way you might expect because there would
be no way to tell whether start is a command or an argument to
stop.
What are your
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Ian Stakenvicius a...@gentoo.org wrote:
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On 18/07/12 03:47 PM, Michael Mol wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés
can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Michael Mol
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Peter Stuge pe...@stuge.se wrote:
William Hubbs wrote:
/etc/init.d/foo stop start
would no longer work the way you might expect because there would be no
way to tell whether start is a command or an argument to stop.
What are your thoughts about this change?
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On 18/07/12 03:55 PM, Michael Mol wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Ian Stakenvicius a...@gentoo.org
wrote:
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On 18/07/12 03:47 PM, Michael Mol wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Canek
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
So your initramfs doesn't include network tools such as ping,
traceroute or wget. Fine. Fundamentally speaking, why shouldn't
someone else's?
So, an initramfs is just a piece of kernel functionality. You can do
almost
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
AFAIK, neither genkernel nor dracut were expected to get tied to the
Gentoo update process. Has that changed?
We don't even update kernels as part of
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 15:58:18 -0400
Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Peter Stuge pe...@stuge.se wrote:
William Hubbs wrote:
/etc/init.d/foo stop start
would no longer work the way you might expect because there would
be no way to tell whether start
On 18-07-2012 15:58:18 -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
along with all other commands can work like before.
/etc/init.d/foo stop -- start
can pass start as an argument to the stop command.
I like this approach, because its use of -- continues expected
commandline parsing behaviors from
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:41:52 -0500
William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote:
I have received a request to allow OpenRC's init scripts to take
command line arguments [1]. As noted on the bug, there are some
advantages to this, but implementing it would have to break backward
compatibility, for
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
So your initramfs doesn't include network tools such as ping,
traceroute or wget. Fine. Fundamentally speaking, why shouldn't
someone else's?
So, an
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On 18/07/12 04:09 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
The other approach, which is on the bug, still has this issue,
e.g.
/etc/init.d/foo command1 arg1 arg2 command2 arg3 arg4 command3
arg5
gets pretty ugly pretty quick. which arguments go with
Folks,
let's move all of the discussion of this to the bug if possible so that
it is all in one place.
Thanks,
William
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Rich Freeman wrote:
5. When something goes wrong you can get a dash/bash shell
..
useful even if you don't have firefox+X11 in your initramfs.
This is one of the first videographed use cases for coreboot.
The initramfs in the video[1] admittedly does not have a browser.
Those days, boot
Is obsolete and not used anymore[1][2]. Will be removed in 30 days.
+ 18 Jul 2012; Johannes Huber j...@gentoo.org tetex-3.eclass, tetex.eclass:
+ Marking as DEAD for removal.
+
[1] http://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/eapi-per-eclass/tetex-3.eclass/
[2]
William Hubbs wrote:
let's move all of the discussion of this to the bug if possible so
that it is all in one place.
That's fine and probably good.
Note that you were the one inviting email discussion about the
change. I guess you wanted rather to focus on the question if
breaking
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:03:14 +0200
Peter Stuge pe...@stuge.se wrote:
William Hubbs wrote:
let's move all of the discussion of this to the bug if possible so
that it is all in one place.
That's fine and probably good.
Note that you were the one inviting email discussion about the
In the beginning there were root (/bin) and /usr programs
See UNIX Programmer's Manual (Thompson, Ritchie, November
1971). [http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/manintro.pdf]
/usr programs were not considered part of the UNIX system
[bottom of page ii].
Root (/) contained all the system files
It would be nice if a sensible structure could be proposed and
agreed by ALL Linux distributions (coordinated with BSD).
+1
If a new file system standard is required, my preferences based on a
history of what is worked and changed over the last 20-30 years would
be:
- OK with requiring / and
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 08:06:41PM +0200, Jason A. Donenfeld wrote
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
3. More support for mdev; e.g. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Mdev and
(still in beta) https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Mdev/Automount_USB The
next
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On 18-07-2012 21:09, Michał Górny wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:03:14 +0200 Peter Stuge pe...@stuge.se
wrote:
William Hubbs wrote:
let's move all of the discussion of this to the bug if possible
so that it is all in one place.
That's fine
On 07/19/12 03:05, Rich Freeman wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
AFAIK, neither genkernel nor dracut were expected to get tied to the
Gentoo update process. Has that changed?
We don't even update kernels as part of the regular update process,
let
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 08:27:29PM +0200, Micha?? G??rny wrote
On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:35:02 -0400
Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote:
3. More support for mdev; e.g. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Mdev
and (still in beta) https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Mdev/Automount_USB
The next
On Wed, 2012-07-18 at 18:24 -0700, Matthew Marlowe wrote:
It would be nice if a sensible structure could be proposed and
agreed by ALL Linux distributions (coordinated with BSD).
+1
If a new file system standard is required, my preferences based on a
history of what is worked and
Canek Peláez Valdés posted on Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:04:33 -0500 as
excerpted:
I don't mind the merge of /bin, /usr/bin, /sbin and /usr/sbin; moreover,
I want an even more radical change:
/usr - /System /home - /Users /etc - /Config
Ugh. At least kill the shift key requirement. Other than
Fabian Groffen posted on Wed, 18 Jul 2012 22:07:50 +0200 as excerpted:
Perhaps, one better makes it explicit, inspired by gdb
/etc/init.d/foo stop --args aggressive-kill=yes (and when using --args,
I'd probably disallow using multiple commands to keep it clear what's
going on)
++
This
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 7:04 PM, Olivier Crête tes...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Wed, 2012-07-18 at 18:24 -0700, Matthew Marlowe wrote:
- It would be nice if the rootfs used a snapshot based filesystem and
if the bootloader was intelligent enough to easily allow admins to
boot to older snapshots as
Michael Mol posted on Wed, 18 Jul 2012 15:18:35 -0400 as excerpted:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:
AFAIK, neither genkernel nor dracut were expected to get tied to the
Gentoo update
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 10:48 PM, Paul Varner fuzzy...@gentoo.org wrote:
All:
(Apologies if you get this twice. I never saw my initial send of the
message hit the mailing list)
Sending this here before I send to the gentoo-dev list. Below is the
list of packages that are managed by the
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Christian Ruppert id...@gentoo.org wrote:
On 07/17/12 at 03:48PM -0500, Paul Varner wrote:
All:
(Apologies if you get this twice. I never saw my initial send of the
message hit the mailing list)
Sending this here before I send to the gentoo-dev list. Below
Alec Warner posted on Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:18:53 +0200 as excerpted:
* app-portage/esearch [gentoo]
None specified
I used to maintain this; but I don't see a compelling reason to use it
over eix, so I recommend removal.
FWIW, I use esearch (heh, just looked up eix with it). I have it
On Thu, 2012-07-19 at 02:42 +, Duncan wrote:
Alec Warner posted on Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:18:53 +0200 as excerpted:
* app-portage/esearch [gentoo]
None specified
I used to maintain this; but I don't see a compelling reason to use it
over eix, so I recommend removal.
FWIW, I use
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