Hi, im sorry about creating a flamewar. But their are a view points
that disturb me really:
- The same installtion (networkless!) possibilites should be offered to
the people who install via the shell (the oldschool an most often used
way i believe), the ncurses-installer and the gtk-installer. I
On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 20:06 +0200, Peter Weber wrote:
- The same installtion (networkless!) possibilites should be offered to
the people who install via the shell (the oldschool an most often used
way i believe), the ncurses-installer and the gtk-installer. I
personally think a real Stage-3
Do not top post, is rude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting
Peter Weber wrote:
You seem to think that the discussion is around you, and your work :-)
It is about Gentoo, please keep this in mind. Nobody says YOU have to
make the work, or that you are doing sth. wrong. You could do
Roy Bamford wrote:
Dropping support for x86 i686 is a debate we need to have some time I
suppose, its a question of when.
There is clearly only a few users, besides myself using systems that
old, since there were very few forums posts about the original 2006.1
x86 media not workign on P1 and
Simon Stelling wrote:
Roy Bamford wrote:
Dropping support for x86 i686 is a debate we need to have some time I
suppose, its a question of when.
There is clearly only a few users, besides myself using systems that
old, since there were very few forums posts about the original 2006.1
x86
The point is that if you build Gentoo to be developer-friendly rather than
user-friendly, Gentoo will be replaced by something else.
User-centric design is why Gentoo is/was different from everything else. Take
away choices that people want and you take the Gentoo philosophy out of
Gentoo
On Monday 09 October 2006 6:30 pm, Alec Warner wrote:
I concur with Donnie here; Gentoo exists not because of Users, but
because of (a subset of active) Developers. It isn't a statement that
is meant to trash users (because you are quite helpful in many
instances). But the naive thought that
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 23:30 -0400, Kari Hazzard wrote:
User-centric design is why Gentoo is/was different from everything else. Take
away choices that people want and you take the Gentoo philosophy out of
Gentoo itself.
If the design was in any way user-centric, then that was a side-effect
On 10/10/06, Seemant Kulleen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If the design was in any way user-centric, then that was a side-effect
of the design being developer-centric. The choices are all about
enabling development and developers. The Gentoo philosophy is about
empowerment -- we provide a platform
Kari Hazzard wrote: [Mon Oct 09 2006, 10:30:40PM CDT]
User-centric design is why Gentoo is/was different from everything
else. Take away choices that people want and you take the Gentoo
philosophy out of Gentoo itself.
Heh. You might want to read drobbins' Making the distribution
articles
Not going to happen. I'm many things, but a software developer is not one of
them. I generally prefer to work on things like design and user psychology
than actually being involved in the coding of it.
You don't want me producing code for the project, trust me on that one.
--
Kari Hazzard
On
On Tuesday 10 October 2006 03:45, Kari Hazzard wrote:
On Monday 09 October 2006 6:30 pm, Alec Warner wrote:
I concur with Donnie here; Gentoo exists not because of Users, but
because of (a subset of active) Developers. It isn't a statement that
is meant to trash users (because you are
On Tuesday 10 October 2006 03:45, Kari Hazzard wrote:
stuff/
After writing the last response, another thought came to mind that I figured I
should post - and should probably be set out in a user's guide to posting on
dev mailing lists.
I had the thought that users likely feel that it's okay to
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 19:50 -0400, Caleb Cushing wrote:
from the ones that are on the mirrors. so what is the hangup? I doubt
it's storage space and bandwidth.
Uhh... it *is* storage space.
In fact, the space usage on our donated mirrors is one of the primary
motivators to have us decrease
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 23:30 -0400, Kari Hazzard wrote:
The point is that if you build Gentoo to be developer-friendly rather than
user-friendly, Gentoo will be replaced by something else.
User-centric design is why Gentoo is/was different from everything else. Take
away choices that people
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 23:30 -0400, Kari Hazzard wrote:
The point is that if you build Gentoo to be developer-friendly rather than
user-friendly, Gentoo will be replaced by something else.
...and? You seem to think that Gentoo being developer-friendly would
be a change in the current way we do
On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 10:40:01AM -0400, Kari Hazzard wrote:
Not going to happen. I'm many things, but a software developer is not one of
them. I generally prefer to work on things like design and user psychology
than actually being involved in the coding of it.
You don't want me
Dominique Michel wrote:
When an user or a potential user read it and want to do a networkless install,
it will just use the Live CD install, and just get in trouble. It is even worse
when many Linux magazines will have this CD. And you cannot argue at it is just
to use catalyst or to burn a CD
Hello, I am very glad to here that a complet networkless install via a
stage3 on the dvd without the installer would be possible again!
But why you write always something about the distfiles? Are there users
who want this? I really don't know.
I personally, think in the same way like you!
It is
On 2006.10.09 19:42, Peter Weber wrote:
[snip]
But to include the sources need simply too much space. I also think
it it enough to deliver only one stage3 (i686 on the x86-disk, x86-64
on
amd64-disk...).
Greetz
[snip]
Peter,
Such a disk will not support P1s and AMD k6 CPUs (or older).
On Thursday 05 October 2006 10:48 am, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
What about *our* choice to not waste time building things we don't want?
So what about those of us who DO want that? Forcing us into an installer is
more constricting and gives us less freedom--That's not the Gentoo way.
If the tool
Kari Hazzard wrote:
There's a thing called self-reference criteria. It's anathema in marketing.
If
you think you know what is best for your users, you will all of your users
and thus most of your employees. Your users know what is best for them, *not*
you, as you are not a user (whether
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 20:42 +0200, Peter Weber wrote:
Hello, I am very glad to here that a complet networkless install via a
stage3 on the dvd without the installer would be possible again!
I never said that.
At any rate, the next release will allow a user to *very* easily to
networkless
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 07:40 -0400, Kari Hazzard wrote:
On Thursday 05 October 2006 10:48 am, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
What about *our* choice to not waste time building things we don't want?
So what about those of us who DO want that? Forcing us into an installer is
more constricting and
On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 07:40:53 -0400 Kari Hazzard
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| If the tool forces the user to do things a particular way, then the
| tool is working against, rather than for, the user.
That doesn't mean that the user is using the right tool. If you're
trying to nail something to a
You've wrote sth. about more content and a stage3 on the LiveDVD, or
not?!
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 17:50 -0400, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 20:42 +0200, Peter Weber wrote:
Hello, I am very glad to here that a complet networkless install via a
stage3 on the dvd without the
It was only a suggestion, not a decision. Of course, there are only a
little number of this early systems.
i686 would be really nice, i386 would be nice, too ;-)
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 20:45 +0100, Roy Bamford wrote:
On 2006.10.09 19:42, Peter Weber wrote:
[snip]
But to include the sources
Kari Hazzard wrote:
On Thursday 05 October 2006 10:48 am, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
What about *our* choice to not waste time building things we don't want?
So what about those of us who DO want that? Forcing us into an installer is
more constricting and gives us less freedom--That's not the
I would like to state my opinion on this... debate. the installer for
me... is inadequate it does not allow for nearly enough customization.
I generally keep my boot partitions at 32 MB why? because I don't need
anymore space than that( I have never even used half that much). I
optomize my ext3
On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 19:11:47 -0400 Caleb Cushing
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| I would like to state my opinion on this... debate. the installer for
| me... is inadequate it does not allow for nearly enough customization.
Then don't use the installer.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail:
umm... I don't that was the point (that it can't work for everyone).
However it would be nice if I didn't have to download a tarball.
I see the point in why it's hard with distfiles but how hard would it
be to add tarballs and limited distfiles. to a minimal cd) and make
it universal and put it
Steev Klimaszewski wrote:
No... but didn't one download and burn that CD that is being used for
the _networkless_ install? One could also download the stage needed,
slap it on a usb key, and viola! Of course, the other option, is to use
that crazy installer option Networkless - I could be
On Fri, 2006-10-06 at 09:39 +0200, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
Steev Klimaszewski wrote:
No... but didn't one download and burn that CD that is being used for
the _networkless_ install? One could also download the stage needed,
slap it on a usb key, and viola! Of course, the other option, is to
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 03:32:41PM -0500, Steev Klimaszewski wrote:
[:snip:]
Stop being stupid please, you're only making fun of yourself. I guess I
don't have to explain you how useful a URL is to a _networkless_
installation, do I?
No... but didn't one download and burn that CD that is
Peter Weber wrote:
Hello,
since Gentoo started its Gentoopix LiveCD I really miss a CD for
networkless-installation. I don't know why the stage3 is missing,
because just some people need a full Gnome-Desktop for the
installation :-(
Oh noes, we even have a whole special handbook version [1]
You don't unterstand me, sorry.
There is no Universal-CD, a User must to download the LiveCD which
forces he/she to use the Ncurses/X11-Installer, because there is no
Stage3-Tarball.
The missing Stage3 is the real problem.
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 16:27 +0200, Jakub Moc wrote:
Peter Weber wrote:
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 15:52 +0200, Peter Weber wrote:
First Question: Where is here the Choice_Of_Gentoo and why are we
breaking with our tradition of shell-installing?
I love this argument.
What about *our* choice to not waste time building things we don't want?
I would be better to offer a
Peter Weber wrote:
You don't unterstand me, sorry.
There is no Universal-CD, a User must to download the LiveCD which
forces he/she to use the Ncurses/X11-Installer, because there is no
Stage3-Tarball.
OH RLY? Maybe just read the options you can pass to bootloader to get CLI?
The missing
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 10:48 -0400, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
Second Question: Will there be a new Universal-CD (or a DVD) with a real
Stage3 for networkless-installion?
No. I do plan on putting the stage3 on the next LiveDVD, but without
the necessary distfiles, it won't do much good for
On 10/5/06, Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Peter Weber wrote:
You don't unterstand me, sorry.
There is no Universal-CD, a User must to download the LiveCD which
forces he/she to use the Ncurses/X11-Installer, because there is no
Stage3-Tarball.
OH RLY? Maybe just read the options you
Dan Meltzer wrote:
None of which are that helpful for a networkless install :/
Funny, I can still do networkless install with those just fine by
fetching the distfiles tarballs before install - hint: emerge -[fF]
Plus nothing stops you from creating your own customized media using our
release
Simon Stelling wrote:
Jakub Moc wrote:
The missing Stage3 is the real problem.
Apparently...
http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/2006.1/stages/stage3-i686-2006.1.tar.bz2
http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/amd64/2006.1/stages/stage3-amd64-2006.1.tar.bz2
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