Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Ciaran McCreesh
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 09:25:55 -0500
> Donnie Berkholz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 05:30 Wed 01 Oct , Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> > If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
>> > vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
>> > Gentoo dev list to see.
>>
>> Nothing was submitted, so there will be no meeting today. We'll have
>> a meeting in 2 weeks if anything comes up or if I missed something
>> that for some reason was not posted in response to the usual
>> announcement thread.
>
> I'm guessing it's too late to ask the Council to discuss the "EAPI 2 is
> brokened :(" thread? What would be the earliest the Council would be
> able to make a decision upon that? Unfortunately it's something that
> could get messy if left for too long.
All I see in the thread is you bringing up a known issue and then
everyone telling you it will be fixed or is in the process of being
fixed.
What kind of improvements are you looking for? Be specific.
>
> --
> Ciaran McCreesh
>
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:11:23 -0700
Zac Medico <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm guessing it's too late to ask the Council to discuss the "EAPI
2 is brokened :(" thread? What would be the earliest the Council
would be able to make a decision upon that? Unfortunately it's
something that could get messy if left for too long.
I think that you may be overreacting. The python-2.6 ebuild from bug
240684 is still hard masked in package.mask and I'm doing a
sys-apps/portage-2.2_rc12 release today that will fix the problem.
What about pkgcore?
It's not Gentoo's primary package manager, so it probably doesn't matter if it
goes a few days without getting fixed. The worst that happens is a few people
get failed builds, right?
--
Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux DeveloperCatalyst/Genkernel + Release Engineering Lead
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
On Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:11:23 -0700
Zac Medico <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'm guessing it's too late to ask the Council to discuss the "EAPI
> > 2 is brokened :(" thread? What would be the earliest the Council
> > would be able to make a decision upon that? Unfortunately it's
> > something that could get messy if left for too long.
>
> I think that you may be overreacting. The python-2.6 ebuild from bug
> 240684 is still hard masked in package.mask and I'm doing a
> sys-apps/portage-2.2_rc12 release today that will fix the problem.
What about pkgcore?
--
Ciaran McCreesh
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
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Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 09:25:55 -0500
> Donnie Berkholz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 05:30 Wed 01 Oct , Mike Frysinger wrote:
>>> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
>>> vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
>>> Gentoo dev list to see.
>> Nothing was submitted, so there will be no meeting today. We'll have
>> a meeting in 2 weeks if anything comes up or if I missed something
>> that for some reason was not posted in response to the usual
>> announcement thread.
>
> I'm guessing it's too late to ask the Council to discuss the "EAPI 2 is
> brokened :(" thread? What would be the earliest the Council would be
> able to make a decision upon that? Unfortunately it's something that
> could get messy if left for too long.
>
I think that you may be overreacting. The python-2.6 ebuild from bug
240684 is still hard masked in package.mask and I'm doing a
sys-apps/portage-2.2_rc12 release today that will fix the problem.
- --
Thanks,
Zac
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 09:25:55 -0500
Donnie Berkholz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 05:30 Wed 01 Oct , Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> > vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> > Gentoo dev list to see.
>
> Nothing was submitted, so there will be no meeting today. We'll have
> a meeting in 2 weeks if anything comes up or if I missed something
> that for some reason was not posted in response to the usual
> announcement thread.
I'm guessing it's too late to ask the Council to discuss the "EAPI 2 is
brokened :(" thread? What would be the earliest the Council would be
able to make a decision upon that? Unfortunately it's something that
could get messy if left for too long.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
On 05:30 Wed 01 Oct , Mike Frysinger wrote:
> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> Gentoo dev list to see.
Nothing was submitted, so there will be no meeting today. We'll have a
meeting in 2 weeks if anything comes up or if I missed something that
for some reason was not posted in response to the usual announcement
thread.
I strongly suggest that council members consider spending the usual
meeting time working on, thinking about, or bugging the critical person
holding up our open bugs. I intend to work on bug #237381 ("Document
appeals process").
--
Thanks,
Donnie
Donnie Berkholz
Developer, Gentoo Linux
Blog: http://dberkholz.wordpress.com
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
Just a quick reminder, the meeting will be on thursday. cheers, Wernfried -- Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne (at) gentoo.org Gentoo Forums - http://forums.gentoo.org forum-mods (at) gentoo.org #gentoo-forums (freenode) pgpYRQfO0VnSE.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 12:23 -0700, Chris Gianelloni wrote: > On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 02:08 +, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote: > > > Let's assume that the new Council will preside from October through > > > September. This would have elections done by September 30th, and > > > nominations starting on August 1st, as we usually do 1 month for > > > nominations and one month for voting. > > > > > > > I agree with you on both points. > > However, the council still needs to "approve" it as it is a "change of > > policy" and so that no one has any doubts / objections later. > > No, it isn't. The policy is that the Council presides for one year. > Giving them only 11 meetings would be a change in policy. Err... right. Last meeting we changed this, which means it already has been approved by the Council. It was just the last Council, not the new one. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 02:08 +, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote: > > Let's assume that the new Council will preside from October through > > September. This would have elections done by September 30th, and > > nominations starting on August 1st, as we usually do 1 month for > > nominations and one month for voting. > > > > I agree with you on both points. > However, the council still needs to "approve" it as it is a "change of > policy" and so that no one has any doubts / objections later. No, it isn't. The policy is that the Council presides for one year. Giving them only 11 meetings would be a change in policy. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
On Monday 01 October 2007, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote: > 1. Due to the tardiness in the election process, there was no council > meeting in September. Will this council have 11 meetings or will its > term end in September of next year? > > 2. Regardless of the decision about the above, we should define a clear > schedule for the council's election to ensure that the previous issue > doesn't happen anymore. Given that we have a 1 month election period for > the council, preceded by a 15 day(?) nomination period, that means that > the election process must start before the last meeting of the existing > council. So, if the election were to be held during August, the > nomination should start on July 15th. I propose the election officials > be chosen at the same date - so as not to delay the process. this was already decided at the last meeting: - clarification on the procedural side of things with transition to new Council: * Nominations will always be in the month of July * Voting will always be in the month of August * August will always be the last month for a new Council * New Council will always take over in September Delays in misc aspects (like setting up infra to allow voting) will merely delay the start of the new Council and the end of the old Council. Once the new Council is voted in and takes over, it will still face the end date of August. This is to avoid ugly sliding windows over time of "Council members serve for a year, but they started late on date XXX so we have to delay the start of the next Council by XXX days blah blah blah". i see no pressing reason to change -mike signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
On Monday 01 October 2007, Ferris McCormick wrote: > The election for this Council and its aftermath shows that we are not > sure how to handle a situation in which it appears a candidate will not > be able to serve if elected. i see it as jokey (who accepted) being an extended proxy for Flameeyes (who approved). my e-mail on the topic was just to stream line things ... Flameeyes would have needed to find a proxy himself or he'd get punted. i think our system is currently sufficient to cover the "sickness" case. if Flameeyes feels he will never be able to take on the role, then he can simply resign from the council and the previously decided procedure takes over. > As a more extreme example than the one we > faced this time, suppose a candidate resigns or is suspended. this has already been codified in previous meetings -mike signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
Mike Frysinger schrieb: > This is your monthly friendly reminder ! Same bat time (typically > the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel > (#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) ! > > If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even > vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole > Gentoo dev list to see. > It would be great if you could discuss possible solutions to the current packages.gentoo.org situation, or ways to deal with such situations effectively in general. I am aware that the former doesn't fit exactly in the council duties and that there's quite some activity in [1]. Still this issue did and still does do damage to Gentoo's reputation given the popularity of pgo [2]. Thanks, Dennis [1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=187971 [2] http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-574544.html -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Gianelloni wrote: > On Mon, 2007-10-01 at 21:54 +, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote: >> 1. Due to the tardiness in the election process, there was no council >> meeting in September. Will this council have 11 meetings or will its >> term end in September of next year? > > There's no need for us to be so strict. I see no reason why the new > Council can't have their full year. In fact, I'm so confident in it > being all fair to give them a full year that I propose we just accept it > and not bother discussing it further. ;] The previous 2 Councils had > their 12 meetings, why shouldn't this one? > >> 2. Regardless of the decision about the above, we should define a clear >> schedule for the council's election to ensure that the previous issue >> doesn't happen anymore. Given that we have a 1 month election period for >> the council, preceded by a 15 day(?) nomination period, that means that >> the election process must start before the last meeting of the existing >> council. So, if the election were to be held during August, the >> nomination should start on July 15th. I propose the election officials >> be chosen at the same date - so as not to delay the process. > > Let's assume that the new Council will preside from October through > September. This would have elections done by September 30th, and > nominations starting on August 1st, as we usually do 1 month for > nominations and one month for voting. > I agree with you on both points. However, the council still needs to "approve" it as it is a "change of policy" and so that no one has any doubts / objections later. I still insist that the election officials should be selected as soon as the nomination period starts to avoid any delays on the voting - we should never again enter an election without having election officials. - -- Regards, Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org Gentoo- forums / Userrel / SPARC -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHAagscAWygvVEyAIRAgJCAJ9y4V+dGWSEK9lNalPLffYvbnuYKQCgmpKt KOvj/kD0oDUn1zNVKSZm4WI= =LZdm -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
On Mon, 2007-10-01 at 21:54 +, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote: > 1. Due to the tardiness in the election process, there was no council > meeting in September. Will this council have 11 meetings or will its > term end in September of next year? There's no need for us to be so strict. I see no reason why the new Council can't have their full year. In fact, I'm so confident in it being all fair to give them a full year that I propose we just accept it and not bother discussing it further. ;] The previous 2 Councils had their 12 meetings, why shouldn't this one? > 2. Regardless of the decision about the above, we should define a clear > schedule for the council's election to ensure that the previous issue > doesn't happen anymore. Given that we have a 1 month election period for > the council, preceded by a 15 day(?) nomination period, that means that > the election process must start before the last meeting of the existing > council. So, if the election were to be held during August, the > nomination should start on July 15th. I propose the election officials > be chosen at the same date - so as not to delay the process. Let's assume that the new Council will preside from October through September. This would have elections done by September 30th, and nominations starting on August 1st, as we usually do 1 month for nominations and one month for voting. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi. Mike Frysinger wrote: > This is your monthly friendly reminder ! Same bat time (typically > the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel > (#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) ! > > If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even > vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole > Gentoo dev list to see. > I would also like to raise two procedural issues that have resulted from this council's election process and that I feel need to be resolved in the beginning of its term: 1. Due to the tardiness in the election process, there was no council meeting in September. Will this council have 11 meetings or will its term end in September of next year? 2. Regardless of the decision about the above, we should define a clear schedule for the council's election to ensure that the previous issue doesn't happen anymore. Given that we have a 1 month election period for the council, preceded by a 15 day(?) nomination period, that means that the election process must start before the last meeting of the existing council. So, if the election were to be held during August, the nomination should start on July 15th. I propose the election officials be chosen at the same date - so as not to delay the process. - -- Regards, Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org Gentoo- forums / Userrel / SPARC -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHAWx6cAWygvVEyAIRAtSOAJwNxL6eXTjP1+N3sO0e2gkoBBlIlgCcDP0k ISnNMMhCm+4uH5atSxQo4kc= =h/r2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
RE: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
On Mon, 2007-10-01 at 07:33 -0700, Chrissy Fullam wrote: > In the past we have had Council members leave and be replaced, though I > don't see the policy for that. Perhaps that should be included in the > discussion of what to do when a Council member, even if they have a proxy, > is away for an extended period or undetermined period of time. The last Council decided (hell if I know which meeting) that we would proceed in the following manner: - Look at next in line from the election - Vote on acceptance of this new member, if 100% for, member is initiated into the Council, otherwise... - Hold a new nominations/vote for the remainder of the term Now, in both cases for the last Council, we accepted the next member and continued about our business. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
RE: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
> From: Ferris McCormick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October > > Substantive > --- > It is not clear whether or not Gentoo currently has a Code of > Conduct or even if the Council wishes it to. > (1) whether the Code of Conduct is in effect; > (2) if so, how we enforce it. > (3) Code of Conduct explicitly calls out a Proctors group as its > executive arm, but previous Council disbanded the proctors. > (4) If we are not serious about having a Code of Conduct, I'd > like Council to explain why not. I think these are best addressed by Council members and look forward to that discussion. We can clearly see where Council disbanded the Proctors project (http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20070712-summary.txt), but it does not answer how the CoC would be enforced or if it should be rolled into a more general policy, enforced by existing teams (DevRel or UserRel come to mind.) I'm sure assumptions were made, however, they were not documented. > I will mention that devrel does receive complaints on > occasion which would properly fall under the Code of Conduct > and proctor control --- either because any policy violation > complained of falls under the Code of Conduct better than > under a devrel problem, Developer Relations has had no problem, reported or otherwise discussed, with addressing these issues. > or because it is a user/developer issue, Requests that are user/developer issue in nature should currently either go through User Relations or Developer Relations, depending on the nature, though we work together fine. > or because by the time it gets to us it's stale, I'm not aware of any issue escalated to Developer Relations that was stale by the time we were made aware, though I suppose the term stale is subject to interpretation. > Anyway, Code of Conduct status needs clarification and action. It seems that there is some confusion and that would certainly call for documented clarification. > Procedural > -- > > The election for this Council and its aftermath shows that we > are not sure how to handle a situation in which it appears a > candidate will not be able to serve if elected. As a more > extreme example than the one we faced this time, suppose a > candidate resigns or is suspended. I am still not sure, for > example, who are actually Council members right now. The current council is located on the Council page. http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/ Flameeyes did send an email, that vapier resent for those who didn't get it, where flameeyes agreed that jokey would be his proxy while he focused on getting better and getting back to Gentoo work. In the past we have had Council members leave and be replaced, though I don't see the policy for that. Perhaps that should be included in the discussion of what to do when a Council member, even if they have a proxy, is away for an extended period or undetermined period of time. Maybe I've shed some insight, maybe I've confused some of you more, however I think these are good topics for discussion in the upcoming Council meeting. Kind regards, Christina Fullam Gentoo Developer Relations Lead | Gentoo Public Relations -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
On Mon, 2007-10-01 at 05:30 +, Mike Frysinger wrote: > This is your monthly friendly reminder ! Same bat time (typically > the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel > (#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) ! > > If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even > vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole > Gentoo dev list to see. > Two topics: The first substantive, the second procedural. Substantive --- It is not clear whether or not Gentoo currently has a Code of Conduct or even if the Council wishes it to. As you know, we do have a draft of one, at least, but it is not complete. Now, that in itself is not a problem because a final Code requires an iterative process based on experience and feedback. If we start with a "final" Code of Conduct, it will be wrong and subject to revision anyway. What are not clear are (1) whether the Code of Conduct is in effect; (2) if so, how we enforce it. Code of Conduct explicitly calls out a Proctors group as its executive arm, but previous Council disbanded the proctors. So as it stands, if we are serious about a Code of Conduct, we have to resurrect the proctors or some equivalent enforcement mechanism. If we are not serious about having a Code of Conduct, I'd like Council to explain why not. (As an aside, I will mention that devrel does receive complaints on occasion which would properly fall under the Code of Conduct and proctor control --- either because any policy violation complained of falls under the Code of Conduct better than under a devrel problem, or because it is a user/developer issue, or because by the time it gets to us it's stale, or You might get the idea.) Anyway, Code of Conduct status needs clarification and action. I can go on with this at length, but perhaps this reply is not the place for it. Procedural -- The election for this Council and its aftermath shows that we are not sure how to handle a situation in which it appears a candidate will not be able to serve if elected. As a more extreme example than the one we faced this time, suppose a candidate resigns or is suspended. I am still not sure, for example, who are actually Council members right now. > Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review > must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum) > before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days > before the meeting. Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be > notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself. > > For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage: > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/ Flames to someplace else, please. Otherwise, as always, comments, corrections, additions, etc. welcome. Regards, Ferris -- Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Developer, Gentoo Linux (Devrel, Sparc) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October
On Sunday 01 October 2006 02:18, Mike Frysinger wrote: > This is your monthly friendly reminder ! Same bat time (typically the > 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC), same bat channel (#gentoo-council @ > irc.freenode.net) ! due to some council members needing to do lame stuff like study for school, this has been pushed back to the 19th -mike pgppjWDpUvveT.pgp Description: PGP signature
