Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo alternatives
Hund wrote: >> My biggest problem with Gentoo was not so much the time needed to >> compile huge ebuilds like Firefox, Thunderbird, or Chromium, but that >> say if you neglected doing updates for a while and then decided to start >> again, then you'd have serious problems. This is because, at least the >> way I understood it, after some time old ebuilds would get deleted from >> the Portage servers to conserve space there, but some of those now >> deleted ebuilds would still be needed as dependencies to do iterative >> updates. The sure-way to resolve this problem would be to re-emerge the >> whole @world set, which of course would take way-longer than just >> Firefox, and might work differently because the '/etc/' configuration >> schema might have changed. >> >> In my case I had some weird problem either emerging some ebuild or >> keeping an old version of an ebuild to keep the functionality or the >> '/etc/' schema removed in the new versions. I just let things sit, and >> moved on to other projects. But when later on I tried to go back to the >> original issue, I had even more trouble because now I was even further >> behind @world, and more ebuilds would not upgrade because of deleted >> dependencies. >> >> So to sum it up, my problem with Gentoo was that you could not just do >> iterative updates after long periods of inactivity. You pretty much had >> to emerge daily and if you had some problem then drop everything and fix >> it right away, or else you'll fall even further behind and eventually >> might have to rebuild @world. And so because constant attention >> intervention and trial and error was required you could not just compile >> huge ebuilds overnight and go about your life during the day. > It's funny how different two people can perceive the same thing. > > One of the very reason I like Gentoo is the fact that I *don't* have to do > daily, or even weekly updates. I'm rather busy with life right now and I just > love how little love Gentoo requires to work, and how reliable it is. I have > never had any issues with postponing updates for longer periods of time. > > -- > Hund > > Depending on what you consider a longer period of time, you may have just been lucky. There's been a couple threads in the past year or so where people didn't update for a while and had to jump through hoops to get their system updated. I think one just did a reinstall because it was faster and easier. Another did the upgrade just as a learning experience. I seem to recall that a reinstall would have been faster. I'm not sure what was learned tho. In the past, others have had this same problem. It is recommended by long term users not to go longer than 3 or 4 months for a pretty easy upgrade path in most cases. Sometimes depending on changes, that can stretch to 6 months. That said, during some major changes, even going a couple months can cause some serious bumps in the upgrade path. It may be doable but certainly more difficult. Gentoo supports updates up to a year old. Thing is, that means Gentoo and the package manager does, it doesn't mean the packages upstream won't cause some issues or that you won't run into hard blocks that have to be handled manually. I been using Gentoo since 2003. I've read some horror stories on waiting to update for a year or more. It's no fun. Many years ago, it would be almost impossible. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Terminal over ssh badly scrambled
>Some Google hits >suggested checking that "TERM" and locale match on both machines. They >do match on my systems. What next? What terminal emulator are you using and what did you set the $TERM to? Are you running any terminal multiplexer? -- Hund
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo alternatives
>My biggest problem with Gentoo was not so much the time needed to >compile huge ebuilds like Firefox, Thunderbird, or Chromium, but that >say if you neglected doing updates for a while and then decided to start >again, then you'd have serious problems. This is because, at least the >way I understood it, after some time old ebuilds would get deleted from >the Portage servers to conserve space there, but some of those now >deleted ebuilds would still be needed as dependencies to do iterative >updates. The sure-way to resolve this problem would be to re-emerge the >whole @world set, which of course would take way-longer than just >Firefox, and might work differently because the '/etc/' configuration >schema might have changed. > >In my case I had some weird problem either emerging some ebuild or >keeping an old version of an ebuild to keep the functionality or the >'/etc/' schema removed in the new versions. I just let things sit, and >moved on to other projects. But when later on I tried to go back to the >original issue, I had even more trouble because now I was even further >behind @world, and more ebuilds would not upgrade because of deleted >dependencies. > >So to sum it up, my problem with Gentoo was that you could not just do >iterative updates after long periods of inactivity. You pretty much had >to emerge daily and if you had some problem then drop everything and fix >it right away, or else you'll fall even further behind and eventually >might have to rebuild @world. And so because constant attention >intervention and trial and error was required you could not just compile >huge ebuilds overnight and go about your life during the day. It's funny how different two people can perceive the same thing. One of the very reason I like Gentoo is the fact that I *don't* have to do daily, or even weekly updates. I'm rather busy with life right now and I just love how little love Gentoo requires to work, and how reliable it is. I have never had any issues with postponing updates for longer periods of time. -- Hund
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo alternatives
Chrome OS is made by Google to run specifically on the Chromebooks. I don't think it is intended for general computing and there is no enthusiast community around it like around other distros. The closest cousin to Gentoo would be Funtoo. It used to be that Gentoo Portage could only use rsync, while Funtoo Portage could use git which is much faster, but since then Gentoo Portage has also gained the functionality to use git for this purpose. My biggest problem with Gentoo was not so much the time needed to compile huge ebuilds like Firefox, Thunderbird, or Chromium, but that say if you neglected doing updates for a while and then decided to start again, then you'd have serious problems. This is because, at least the way I understood it, after some time old ebuilds would get deleted from the Portage servers to conserve space there, but some of those now deleted ebuilds would still be needed as dependencies to do iterative updates. The sure-way to resolve this problem would be to re-emerge the whole @world set, which of course would take way-longer than just Firefox, and might work differently because the '/etc/' configuration schema might have changed. In my case I had some weird problem either emerging some ebuild or keeping an old version of an ebuild to keep the functionality or the '/etc/' schema removed in the new versions. I just let things sit, and moved on to other projects. But when later on I tried to go back to the original issue, I had even more trouble because now I was even further behind @world, and more ebuilds would not upgrade because of deleted dependencies. So to sum it up, my problem with Gentoo was that you could not just do iterative updates after long periods of inactivity. You pretty much had to emerge daily and if you had some problem then drop everything and fix it right away, or else you'll fall even further behind and eventually might have to rebuild @world. And so because constant attention intervention and trial and error was required you could not just compile huge ebuilds overnight and go about your life during the day. The distro I would recommend to look at now is NixOS -- it is also source-based, but if you have problems with one package that will not prevent you from keeping the rest of the system up to date. Upstream changes are pulled pretty regularly. And even though it is source-based, you download most packages pre-compiled. However if you want to you can tweak the source and re-compile locally. You can also keep multiple versions of the same package. You also do not mess directly with the '/etc/' files for individual packages, instead you specify a global configuration "recipe" in '/etc/nixos/configuration.nix', which is used to generate the package-specific '/etc/' files. This layer of abstraction improves reliability and allows easy config cloning across machines. The down-side is that NixOS has a radically-different paradigm that takes a while to wrap your head around, requires learning the Nix Expression Language (which is radically-different too), and is not yet that "mature" so theoretically things can break, but I would still recommend it over Chrome OS. -- Marat On 6/7/21 1:10 AM, n952162 wrote: I'm looking for a gentoo alternative and am surprised to see that google chrome os is based on gentoo. Does anybody have any experience with this? Do they support multi-media and basic modern desktop capabilities? I see that there's some concentration on a special browser, but I'd be running Firefox and FVWM anyway. Do they use /portage/ and source packages? Do they push down every single upstream modification, like gentoo does, or maybe have a bit of hysteresis? I updated on May first and built firefox 78.10.*0*. 2+ days of building. I updated on June first and built firefox 78.10.*1*. and spent 2+ days building. I updated today because of the same old slot collision problems I've run into over a year dev-python/setuptools:0 dev-python/setuptools_scm:0 dev-python/toml:0 dev-python/certifi:0 dev-python/jinja:0 dev-python/markupsafe:0 and now, on the 7th, I'm building firefox 78.11. I just don't have the time for this. It impacts my machines too much. Yes, I know, there are binary versions, but if I wanted to use binary, I wouldn't use gentoo. And anyway, there's always rust and gcc and ...
Re: [gentoo-user] Terminal over ssh badly scrambled
On Wed, Jun 09, 2021 at 11:03:30PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote > On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 17:46:47 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > > Another item that may or may not be related... emerging Gentoo sources > > did not create a symlink from "linux-5.10.27-gentoo" to "linux", so I > > had to do it manually. I suppose I could've used "eselect kernel set 1" > > instead. > > Do you have the symlink USE flag set for gentoo-sources? No... but I didn't set it in the past, and still got the link during the install. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Terminal over ssh badly scrambled
On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 17:46:47 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Another item that may or may not be related... emerging Gentoo sources > did not create a symlink from "linux-5.10.27-gentoo" to "linux", so I > had to do it manually. I suppose I could've used "eselect kernel set 1" > instead. Do you have the symlink USE flag set for gentoo-sources? -- Neil Bothwick Forget the Joneses...I can't keep up with The Simpsons. pgp4pSBFBbge3.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-user] Terminal over ssh badly scrambled
I'm installing on a new machine. I much rather prefer doing it remote, so I can compare side by side with my current machine. But the terminal is badly scrambled. See attachment. Some Google hits suggested checking that "TERM" and locale match on both machines. They do match on my systems. What next? Another item that may or may not be related... emerging Gentoo sources did not create a symlink from "linux-5.10.27-gentoo" to "linux", so I had to do it manually. I suppose I could've used "eselect kernel set 1" instead. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications
