Re: [gentoo-user] Without udev, who/what names ethernet devices?
On 07/06/2013 06:12, Chris Stankevitz wrote: Hello, A USB serial device is identified by the characters /dev/ttyUSB0. One might call this string a device on your filesystem and it can be opened/closed just like any other entry in the filesystem. An ethernet device is sometimes represented by the string eth0. Regarding this string eth0: 1. What does this string represent? Is it a file on a filesystem? (no!) Is it okay for me to call it an ethernet *device* It's just a name. Your name is Chris, mine is Alan and it's is eth0. We usually just call it an interface 2. Assuming udev is not running, who/what comes up with the name eth0? How does that person/thing know how many ethernet devices there are and in what order to enumerate them? What happens if ethernet devices are dynamically added (e.g. a USB ethernet device or a driver being loaded/unloaded)? The kernel driver gives it that name based on what it finds when it probes your hardware. Kernel drivers strives for some form of consistency in picking names, but the order they are found in is somewhat random-ish. This means you cannot guarantee that the number on the end is always going to be the same every boot - hardware just does not work that way When you hotplug a device, the driver does what it's coded to do - usually assign the next available number. There is no guarantee all drivers will always do this always - it's by convention 3. How does (2) change when udev is running? Depends. If you like the kernel naming scheme and want to keep it, just tell udev to not fiddle with names and keep them as they are. If you like the way udev does things and want to go with it's scheme, follow recent recommendations on this list. udev will rename the interfaces to it's own scheme based on the rules you set up. What you CANNOT do with udev is eg switch the names eth0 and eth1 around after the kernel has named them. That was tried for years, it doesn't work. So now udev never interferes with kernel namespace, it create it's own namespace For more info, research this list going back about 4 months. The whole topic was discussed at length. Search for udev persistent names. A word of warning - it wasn't pretty at the time and nothing changed just becuase those mails are now archived :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Acer Aspire Part 2 - Xorg
Hello, On Fri, 07 Jun 2013 10:01:49 +0800 William Kenworthy bi...@iinet.net.au wrote: I notice you mention sabayon a few times - are you using sabayon or gentoo - they are not exactly the same and if you are mixing guides this may be the reason you are having such odd problems. I use Gentoo, only for install i use Sabayon because Gentoo Install Disc could not use, they has mistake in start. They could not mount bootdisc after keymaps. Thank you Greetings Silvio
Re: [gentoo-user] Acer Aspire Part 2 - Xorg
Hello, On Fri, 7 Jun 2013 10:00:16 +0800 AR (aka AleiPhoenix) aleiphoe...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have this netbook too. The actual CPU type is N2800 and intergrated graphic is GMA3600 so the graphics drivers in kernel support is GMA500. Do you have that enabled? My CPU is a N550. Can you cat ur make.conf? What you use in INPUT_DEVICE? In my `make.conf`, I have `VIDEO_CARDS=intel fbdev vesa`, and I don't have an Xorg.conf. All works well except when the system booting with extenal video output (VGA or HDMI) plugged, both LVDS and monitor gone black. But I think that won't be the problem. I have set it in make.conf what you say, but when start slim Display is black and when i start XFCE4 only symbols and i can nothing do. Photos from Xfce4 http://silviosiefke.com/1.jpg http://silviosiefke.com/2.jpg http://silviosiefke.com/3.jpg Thank you Greetings Silvio
Re: [gentoo-user] Who/what names hard drives /dev/sda, /dev/sdb, etc
130606 Chris Stankevitz wrote: Who or what decides to name a hard drive /dev/sda vs /dev/sdb? You, when you connect up the drives in the box, if you build it ; the manufacturer, if you buy the machine ready-built. If the latter, open the box -- carefully (smile) -- check the connections inside with the mobo manual. How does it decide what order to enumerate the drives on my computer? The drive which the mobo calls 'SATA1' wb /dev/sda etc. When in the boot process does is a disk given a name like /dev/sda? That's done by 'udev' based on what BIOS tells it. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
[gentoo-user] swap partition on Raspberry
Hello, i am setting up gentoo a Raspberry (B) following the gentoo wiki [1], first i prepare the SD-Card. The wiki links to the instructions over at embedded linux wiki [2]. I wonder about the disk layout. Q1: Do i need a swap partition, and if yes is 512m ok? The gentoo wiki creates one, the elinux wiki not. Q2: Also the Raspberry is likely to be powered down without warning. To my belief jounarled filesystems can handle this. I plan to use JFS since it works well on my desktop as well. Is there something I could have in mind? Q3: The gentoo wiki briefly mentions to use squashfs for /usr/portage. What will be the benefits of this? [1] http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi [2] http://elinux.org/RPi_Advanced_Setup frukto
Re: [gentoo-user] Setting the clock with ntp
Chris Stankevitz wrote: Hi, What is the gentoo equivalent to this ubuntu command: apt-get install ntpdate ntpdate pool.ntp.org The first command installs ntpdate, a program that uses ntp to immediately set the clock, even if it is going to be a large adjustment. The second comment tells ntpdate to sync the clock. Thank you, Chris I use this command for checking if the clock is getting synced and accurate, enough. ntpdate -b -u -q pool.ntp.org If it happens to be way off, I remove the -q option and it will set the clock, rather abruptly tho. Someone posted that command for me AGES ago so figured I would pass it on. ;-) Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Without udev, who/what names ethernet devices?
On Friday 07 Jun 2013 09:06:47 Alan McKinnon wrote: On 07/06/2013 06:12, Chris Stankevitz wrote: An ethernet device is sometimes represented by the string eth0. Regarding this string eth0: 1. What does this string represent? Is it a file on a filesystem? (no!) Is it okay for me to call it an ethernet *device* [snip...] For more info, research this list going back about 4 months. The whole topic was discussed at length. Search for udev persistent names. A word of warning - it wasn't pretty at the time and nothing changed just becuase those mails are now archived :-) Let's hope that the mere mention of that thread does not kick off another rant-storm about udev, systemd, banking bailouts, global warming, ... LOL! More detail on the aheam! predictable interface naming scheme can be found here: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/ and some suggestions for upgrading to the latest stable version of udev in Gentoo were published here: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Udev/upgrade HTH. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Without udev, who/what names ethernet devices?
On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 1:06 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Regarding this string eth0: 1. What does this string represent? Is it a file on a filesystem? (no!) Is it okay for me to call it an ethernet *device* It's just a name. I'm interested in a bit more resolution here. I believe we established that the name eth0 is given by the kernel. Presumably these names are made available through system calls. What is the name of the system call that provides these monikers? I'm curious by what moniker systemcalls refer to these devices. For example, is the systemcall that retrieves these monikers called GetEthernetNames? What you CANNOT do with udev is eg switch the names eth0 and eth1 around after the kernel has named them. That was tried for years, it doesn't work. So now udev never interferes with kernel namespace, it create it's own namespace Okay. From your description I conclude that there are two classes of names for ethernet devices. Kernel ethernet names and udev ethernet names. When a userland utility (wuch as ifconfig) takes an ethernet device name as input are they expecting a kernel ethernet name or the udev ethernet name? That question can be answered with a simple kernel or udev but I'm interested in a little more detail. What do these userland utilities do with the name? Are these utilities calling systemcalls such as GivePropertiesOnEthernetNameInKernelNamespace(eth0)? Are they establishing a connection to a udev server and querying based on udev namespace names? The goal of these questions is not for me to determine if udev is good or bad, debate global warming, etc. I just want to technically understand these names, what their differences are, where they come from, how they are referred in various function calls, etc. Chris
Re: [gentoo-user] swap partition on Raspberry
Hello, well i have set my Raspberry (B) with ArchLinuxArm. I decided againts gentoo, because of the long compilling time (for example git takes a long time). Maybe i try gentoo on my second sd card... A1: I have set an extra swap partition. I followed this guide for resizing my main partition (i have a 16 GB sd card class 10) and setting the wap partition (or rather swap file?): Raspberry Pi – Partition an größere Sd-Karte anpassen [1] It is in german, but i think that if you are using gentoo, you should be able to follow just the commands, knowing what they do. I am not sure, how much swap you need, because you maybe need space for compilation of programs. Because of this fact i would encourage you to set a swap. How much swap you need/can give depends on the sd card. (I wouldnt't make 1GB swap on a 4GB card). I look forward to hearing more of you, because there are not that many people, talking about gentoo on raspberry (or rather i didn't found many). Can't answer A2, and A3, not enough knowledge. hrom [1] Setup Partitions on Raspberry Pihttp://sparky0815.de/2012/05/raspberry-pi-partition-an-grosere-sd-karte-anpassen/ On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 1:39 PM, fruktopus frukto...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, i am setting up gentoo a Raspberry (B) following the gentoo wiki [1], first i prepare the SD-Card. The wiki links to the instructions over at embedded linux wiki [2]. I wonder about the disk layout. Q1: Do i need a swap partition, and if yes is 512m ok? The gentoo wiki creates one, the elinux wiki not. Q2: Also the Raspberry is likely to be powered down without warning. To my belief jounarled filesystems can handle this. I plan to use JFS since it works well on my desktop as well. Is there something I could have in mind? Q3: The gentoo wiki briefly mentions to use squashfs for /usr/portage. What will be the benefits of this? [1] http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi [2] http://elinux.org/RPi_Advanced_Setup frukto
Re: [gentoo-user] Who/what names hard drives /dev/sda, /dev/sdb, etc
On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 2:43 AM, Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: When in the boot process does is a disk given a name like /dev/sda? That's done by 'udev' based on what BIOS tells it. Hi Philip, Is this a true statement: Some people do not use udev. These people still have a /dev/sda. Therefore something other than udev is giving drives the name /dev/sda. Thank you, Chris
Re: [gentoo-user] Who/what names hard drives /dev/sda, /dev/sdb, etc
On Fri, Jun 07, 2013 at 09:32:41AM -0700, Chris Stankevitz wrote: On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 2:43 AM, Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: When in the boot process does is a disk given a name like /dev/sda? That's done by 'udev' based on what BIOS tells it. Hi Philip, Is this a true statement: Some people do not use udev. These people still have a /dev/sda. Therefore something other than udev is giving drives the name /dev/sda. Thank you, Chris Yes, the kernel does this. -- staticsafe O ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org Please don't top post - http://goo.gl/YrmAb Don't CC me! I'm subscribed to whatever list I just posted on.
Re: [gentoo-user] Fbpanel - Fluxbox - Gkrellm Questions
Took me a while to figure out what sudo was complaining about - my shutdown line includes a 15 second delay /sbin/shutdown -h 15 needed to be t=15. Once I solved that, it quit complaining. I'd though to simply take advantage of the already available line for the wheel group being allowed to execute any command w/o a pw but thought thrice about it and went the individual command route. Will be testing quite soon now that I've got the sleep command working. On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 10:49 PM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 07 Jun 2013 06:21:00 Fast Turtle wrote: Turns out there's no shutdown group on my system now so it must be added when kde is installed with powerdevil - oh well. Guess I'll have to either create it or go the sudo route since I'm more concerned with what works. These are my relevant entries in /etc/sudoers to avoid entering a passwd: ME BOX1 = NOPASSWD: /sbin/shutdown -h now ME BOX1 = NOPASSWD: /sbin/shutdown -r now ME BOX1 = NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/hibernate after I have defined as: Host_Alias BOX1 = domain_name --could also use IP address here -- User_Alias ME = my_username PS. Don't forget to use visudo to edit your sudoers file. -- Regards, Mick
Re: [gentoo-user] Without udev, who/what names ethernet devices?
On 07/06/13 18:05, Chris Stankevitz wrote: On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 1:06 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Regarding this string eth0: 1. What does this string represent? Is it a file on a filesystem? (no!) Is it okay for me to call it an ethernet *device* It's just a name. I'm interested in a bit more resolution here. I believe we established that the name eth0 is given by the kernel. Presumably these names are made available through system calls. What is the name of the system call that provides these monikers? I'm curious by what moniker systemcalls refer to these devices. For example, is the systemcall that retrieves these monikers called GetEthernetNames? http://www.kernel.org/doc/htmldocs/device-drivers/API-device-rename.html and top of this file will tell how the names calculate: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/src/udev/udev-builtin-net_id.c#n20 What you CANNOT do with udev is eg switch the names eth0 and eth1 around after the kernel has named them. That was tried for years, it doesn't work. So now udev never interferes with kernel namespace, it create it's own namespace Okay. From your description I conclude that there are two classes of names for ethernet devices. Kernel ethernet names and udev ethernet names. When a userland utility (wuch as ifconfig) takes an ethernet device name as input are they expecting a kernel ethernet name or the udev ethernet name? That question can be answered with a simple kernel or udev but I'm interested in a little more everything will use the same, which is whatever you last used to rename the device as udev is userspace just as much `ip` command from iproute2 package is boot - kernel assigns eth0 - the name is now eth0 to userspace - at this point you rename it to something else, using udev, ip, ipconfig, or whatever and use it everywhere, or don't rename at all and keep using the kernel assigned name case1: boot using net.ifnames=0 - kernel assigns eth0 - udev sees net.ifnames=0 and doesn't rename to anything - user uses eth0 in whatever he is doing case2: boot with the default which is net.ifnames=1 - kernel assigns to eth0 - udev sees net-ifnames=1 and reads it's rules and renames accordingly to for example enp1s0 detail. What do these userland utilities do with the name? Are these utilities calling systemcalls such as GivePropertiesOnEthernetNameInKernelNamespace(eth0)? Are they establishing a connection to a udev server and querying based on udev namespace names? The goal of these questions is not for me to determine if udev is good or bad, debate global warming, etc. I just want to technically understand these names, what their differences are, where they come from, how they are referred in various function calls, etc. hope above links help explaining in better... Chris
Re: [gentoo-user] Without udev, who/what names ethernet devices?
On 07/06/13 21:09, Samuli Suominen wrote: [ .. ] One more link related, http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/commit/src/udev?id=97595710b77aa162ca5e20da57d0a1ed7355eaad From there you can find the code that does the renaming in udev.
Re: [gentoo-user] Without udev, who/what names ethernet devices?
On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Samuli Suominen ssuomi...@gentoo.org wrote: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/commit/src/udev?id=97595710b77aa162ca5e20da57d0a1ed7355eaad From there you can find the code that does the renaming in udev. Thank you for the description and links... that was the kind of info I was hoping to get. Chris
[gentoo-user] printing only works from Chrome
One of my systems will print to the print server from Chrome but not Abiword or LibreOffice. I'm not sure where to start with this one. Any ideas? - Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] printing only works from Chrome
On Fri, 7 Jun 2013 14:01:22 -0700, Grant wrote: One of my systems will print to the print server from Chrome but not Abiword or LibreOffice. I'm not sure where to start with this one. The print server's log files, which will show you whether the request is reaching the server. And, if it is, hopefully why it is not being acted upon. If not, try running the program from a terminal to see if it gives any useful output. After that, try strace. -- Neil Bothwick Consciousness: that annoying time between naps. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] printing only works from Chrome
On Fri, 7 Jun 2013 14:01:22 -0700 Grant emailgr...@gmail.com wrote: One of my systems will print to the print server from Chrome but not Abiword or LibreOffice. I'm not sure where to start with this one. Any ideas? - Grant did you by chance forget to enable the cups flag?
Re: [gentoo-user] swap partition on Raspberry
On 07/06/13 23:46, Jan Hönig wrote: Hello, well i have set my Raspberry (B) with ArchLinuxArm. I decided againts gentoo, because of the long compilling time (for example git takes a long time). Maybe i try gentoo on my second sd card... A1: I have set an extra swap partition. I followed this guide for resizing my main partition (i have a 16 GB sd card class 10) and setting the wap partition (or rather swap file?): Raspberry Pi – Partition an größere Sd-Karte anpassen [1] It is in german, but i think that if you are using gentoo, you should be able to follow just the commands, knowing what they do. I am not sure, how much swap you need, because you maybe need space for compilation of programs. Because of this fact i would encourage you to set a swap. How much swap you need/can give depends on the sd card. (I wouldnt't make 1GB swap on a 4GB card). I look forward to hearing more of you, because there are not that many people, talking about gentoo on raspberry (or rather i didn't found many). Can't answer A2, and A3, not enough knowledge. hrom [1] Setup Partitions on Raspberry Pihttp://sparky0815.de/2012/05/raspberry-pi-partition-an-grosere-sd-karte-anpassen/ On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 1:39 PM, fruktopus frukto...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, i am setting up gentoo a Raspberry (B) following the gentoo wiki [1], first i prepare the SD-Card. The wiki links to the instructions over at embedded linux wiki [2]. I wonder about the disk layout. Q1: Do i need a swap partition, and if yes is 512m ok? The gentoo wiki creates one, the elinux wiki not. Q2: Also the Raspberry is likely to be powered down without warning. To my belief jounarled filesystems can handle this. I plan to use JFS since it works well on my desktop as well. Is there something I could have in mind? Q3: The gentoo wiki briefly mentions to use squashfs for /usr/portage. What will be the benefits of this? [1] http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi [2] http://elinux.org/RPi_Advanced_Setup frukto using 256M - doesnt use it much but it currently just plays videos on framebuffer. Be careful using ext file systems and stock 4G cards - runs out of inodes on large compiles. I installed from a gentoo image off the net and rebuilt it. When I get time I'll do my own from scratch but its working ... BillK
