Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[Dale]

R0b0t1 wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Ian Zimmerman  wrote:
>> On 2017-08-30 18:28, R0b0t1 wrote:
>>
> Also: how long is the replacement going to last?  Anything with
> flash as the main storage will be back at the recycling station
> (ideally) within a couple of years.  This includes all the consumer
> routers I've ever had, including the beloved blue Linksys.
>>> Flash storage lasts far longer than that in practice. How often do you
>>> upgrade a router?
>> The "couple" was meant literally, i.e. typically 2 years until it
>> breaks.  I don't know for sure if it is the flash or something else.
>> It's not a bad brand - I have had many different brands, nothing lasts
>> much more than that.  And I don't abuse them - in fact I pamper them :-)
>>
> I don't want to take this off on a tangent too far, but can you
> describe how you're using them? I'm very interested in what might be
> causing them to fail. It's probably not the flash. Reading it causes
> virtually no wear and you can do this indefinitely until the charge on
> the flash cells equalizes itself, which usually takes a hundred years
> or so (similar to the time periods that electromigration takes to
> visibly affect integrated circuits).
>
>


I have to add, I've had modems go out, lightening strikes coming through
the phone line does a good job of that.  I've never had a modem just die
outside of lightening hitting it.  Some I've had for years, after
plugging the phone lines into a good surge protector.  Smart move. 
Should have did that sooner.  ;-) 

Router, heck, I don't recall ever having a router go bad.  I don't
recall even the power pack thing ever going out.  I've updated the
firmware/OS thing a couple times on mine and it just keeps on going. 
Come to think of it, I rarely even have to reboot the thing.  Usually
when I do, it's because my DSL is having problems and I give it a reset
just for giggles, modem to I might add.  BTW, I have one of those wired
type LinkSys blue routers.  I have a spare in the closet.  It's been
there for years.  Found it at a thrift store for like $5.00 or so.  They
had no idea its real value.  I think it has the wireless part.  lol 
Anyway, it worked when I tested it. 

Makes one curious as to what is causing Ian's problem with this sort of
thing.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Simplest NTP client for standalone system?

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 8:32 AM, Alan McKinnon  
> wrote:
>> Another example is LVM. You or I might really need it (debatable now we
>> have ZFS) but the average user has no concept of what it might be, or
>> care. So why do Ubuntu installers shove it in your face as something
>> really cool that you should really really use? Because the author of the
>> installer thinks it's really cool, that's why.
>>
> Maybe.
>
> Or maybe because when that computer's hard drive starts getting full
> and you add a new hard drive, if you're using lvm with a few commands
> you can make your /home expand across both drives, while with straight
> partitions that is a lot more work.
>
> There really is no reason not to use some kind of volume management
> solution these days, whether that is zfs/btrfs, or lvm.  When your
> data is on lvm it is MUCH easier to move it around than if you just
> put it directly on drive partitions.
>
> Arguably you want more flexibility around adding/removing drives on
> the desktop than in the enterprise, because desktop users don't add
> and remove drives in sets of 5-6.  This is why I think btrfs is
> actually superior to zfs conceptually on the desktop (setting aside
> the fact that it will tend to eat your data) - the flexibility matters
> more on the small scale because you want to go from a 3-disk RAID5 to
> a 4-disk RAID5.
>
>


You have a point but most people I know use a computer for years, until
it is about dead due to age, and the hard drive isn't even half full.  I
have a neighbor that bought a computer several years ago with a 1TB
drive.  Last I looked, it had less than 200GBs of data on it, including
the OS. 

Sad to say but when a drive fills up, most people would think the system
is broken and just go buy a new one, while losing the data at the same
time.  Most people I know, don't even think about transferring data from
their old system to their new system.  They just assume a video or
whatever won't work except on that old system so they lose everything. 

It's sad to say, even about some of my friends and even family members,
most are clueless about how a computer works and how easy it can be to
transfer data from one system to another.  Same can be said with
backups.  Especially if you don't have a lot, online backup services can
be very easy and require nothing from the user. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[R0b0t1]

On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Ian Zimmerman  wrote:
> On 2017-08-30 18:28, R0b0t1 wrote:
>
>> >> Also: how long is the replacement going to last?  Anything with
>> >> flash as the main storage will be back at the recycling station
>> >> (ideally) within a couple of years.  This includes all the consumer
>> >> routers I've ever had, including the beloved blue Linksys.
>
>> Flash storage lasts far longer than that in practice. How often do you
>> upgrade a router?
>
> The "couple" was meant literally, i.e. typically 2 years until it
> breaks.  I don't know for sure if it is the flash or something else.
> It's not a bad brand - I have had many different brands, nothing lasts
> much more than that.  And I don't abuse them - in fact I pamper them :-)
>

I don't want to take this off on a tangent too far, but can you
describe how you're using them? I'm very interested in what might be
causing them to fail. It's probably not the flash. Reading it causes
virtually no wear and you can do this indefinitely until the charge on
the flash cells equalizes itself, which usually takes a hundred years
or so (similar to the time periods that electromigration takes to
visibly affect integrated circuits).

[gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2017-08-30 18:28, R0b0t1 wrote:

> >> Also: how long is the replacement going to last?  Anything with
> >> flash as the main storage will be back at the recycling station
> >> (ideally) within a couple of years.  This includes all the consumer
> >> routers I've ever had, including the beloved blue Linksys.

> Flash storage lasts far longer than that in practice. How often do you
> upgrade a router?

The "couple" was meant literally, i.e. typically 2 years until it
breaks.  I don't know for sure if it is the flash or something else.
It's not a bad brand - I have had many different brands, nothing lasts
much more than that.  And I don't abuse them - in fact I pamper them :-)

-- 
Please don't Cc: me privately on mailing lists and Usenet,
if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup.
Do obvious transformation on domain to reply privately _only_ on Usenet.

Re: [gentoo-user] systemD?

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 7:28 PM, Heiko Baums  wrote:
> Am Wed, 30 Aug 2017 23:27:12 +0100
> schrieb Mick :
>
>> BTW, if you run ps axf and come across '/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd
>> --daemon' don't panic.  RHL advocates of monolithic stack for Linux
>> haven't taken over your machine, but that's how udev is packaged
>> these days even if you have not installed or enabled systemd on your
>> OS.
>
> Why not using eudev? Works perfectly. No need for systemd-udev.
>

Other than one default setting and the filenames there really is
little difference either way.  If eudev has drifted further than that
I'm curious to hear.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] systemD?

[Daniel Campbell]

On 08/30/2017 01:39 PM, mad.scientist.at.la...@tutanota.com wrote:
> I do not want to start a whole systemd storm, glad i was offline for
> that.  however, in my case i'd really like to avoid systemd.  can i
> setup with out systemd, or do i need to remove and patch later. 
> obviously better to start without it in this case.  so are some of the
> available kernels not systemd, and how much does it change the 
> installation?  i did search for it, and found a couple docs at
> gentoo.org it doesn't look too bad.  thanks.
> 
> -- 
> The Power Of the People Is Stronger Than The People In Charge.

We have a wiki page for it [1] that I'm awaiting review on for my edited
version[2], which briefly goes over the steps needed to setup Gentoo
without systemd.

In short:

eselect profile list
(choose one that doesn't have 'systemd' in its name)
eselect profile set [profile-number]

make.conf:
USE="$USE -systemd"

(sidenote: is logind a USE flag yet?)

package.mask:
sys-apps/systemd
sys-fs/udev

Remerging virtual/udev after configuring the above will pull in
sys-fs/eudev, which is a drop-in replacement for systemd-udev. Be sure
to merge your preferred init, and systemd will be removed on the next
depclean (if present and not in a set somewhere like @world).

[1]: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_Without_systemd
[2]: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Zlg/Drafts/Gentoo_without_systemd

-- 
Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer, Trustee, Treasurer
OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C  1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6



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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[R0b0t1]

On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 9:59 AM, Mick  wrote:
> On Wednesday, 30 August 2017 15:42:47 BST Ian Zimmerman wrote:
>> On 2017-08-30 09:32, Mick wrote:
>> > > Unfortunately this isn't a viable strategy because typically you
>> > > will, in a few months, if not a single month, spend more in
>> > > electricity costs than you would purchasing a new single board
>> > > computer.
>> >
>> > Perhaps in a commercial 24x7x365 high compute cycle application this
>> > would hold water, but in the case of a home PC running 14 hours a day
>> > at maximum power you might save enough to buy a small spinning SATA

Only recent hardware is actually any good at frequency scaling, or
adjusting power consumption when frequency scaling. If the processor
saves 10W that's nice but the rest of the computer might still be
using 50-100W idle.

>> > drive after a year, or a Raspberry Pi without peripherals, but not a
>> > new PC.  Of course, if:
>> >
>> > 1. your PC is not running at full speed all the time;
>> > 2. it is not a PentiumD dual core (were they the most power hungry?);
>> > 3. you're not still running a CRT monitor;
>> > 4. you tend to suspend to RAM when not in front of it;
>> > 5. a new PC is not at least 50% more efficient;
>> > 6. the price of electricity is not exorbitant (I pay approximately
>> > £0.13/KWh + £0.29/day)
>> >
>> > then you will need other reasons to upgrade.  When the PC you're using
>> > is a laptop, then the case for upgrading on grounds of savings on
>> > electricity costs alone is even more tenuous.
>>

I think it is useful to talk about absolute cost vs. relative cost.
The absolute cost is likely low enough you don't care, and if so
that's fine, I understand. The relative cost of running a single board
computer as opposed to modern desktop is something like 100x cheaper,
or two orders of magnitude (~2.5W vs. ~120W). Older desktops fare less
favorably and may be 200-500x more power hungry.

>> Also: how long is the replacement going to last?  Anything with flash as
>> the main storage will be back at the recycling station (ideally) within
>> a couple of years.  This includes all the consumer routers I've ever
>> had, including the beloved blue Linksys.
>

Flash storage lasts far longer than that in practice. How often do you
upgrade a router?

Even the very inexpensive flash (10k to 100k write cycles) in
microcontrollers tends to never reach its useful lifespan even when
those parts are used for development; that is, receiving 10-20 updates
a day for a few months (worst case ~1% of useful lifespan, more
typically ~0.1% of useful lifespan or less).

> With consumer grade router/modems I've found the capacitors are of a low
> rating and therefore within a few years (or sooner if your area experiences
> brown outs and power cuts/surges) they give up the ghost.  Replacing the
> capacitors in their power supply and sometimes a couple of their internal
> capacitors with capacitors of a higher rating for just a few cents, by passes
> this built-in obsolescence and extends their useful life for quite a few more
> years.

I haven't noticed anything similar but I do not recommend Netgear
products anymore. The TP-LINK router I purchased has been in use for a
few years and has fared favorably.

These failures seem to be related to "abusing" the router. If you keep
it relatively uncovered in a livable space it will do fine. If you put
it outside in a shelter it will not. I do not necessarily agree that
computers should be designed to operate at *only* 25C STP (your
livingroom) but that is the current state of the market.

R0b0t1.

Re: [gentoo-user] systemD?

[Heiko Baums]

Am Wed, 30 Aug 2017 23:27:12 +0100
schrieb Mick :

> BTW, if you run ps axf and come across '/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd
> --daemon' don't panic.  RHL advocates of monolithic stack for Linux
> haven't taken over your machine, but that's how udev is packaged
> these days even if you have not installed or enabled systemd on your
> OS.

Why not using eudev? Works perfectly. No need for systemd-udev.

Heiko

Re: [gentoo-user] Simplest NTP client for standalone system?

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Alan McKinnon  wrote:
>
> But I'm not talking about it for users like you and I.
> I've said over and over in this thread about regular users and you seem
> to be missing that part; it's the entirety of everything I'm saying
> here. I didn't say LVM shouldn't be available, I said that installers
> shouldn't put it up front and centre in the user's face claiming that
> it's awesome.
>
> Your average user has no idea what volume management even is and are
> completely lost when it comes up. They just have no mental image of what
> it even could be and a tool that is not understood and not used is not
> worth installing.
>

And yet most Ubuntu users who have no idea what volume management are
running just fine with it all the same, and at some point if they ever
need to move things around it will make life that much easier for
them.

The fact that they've had no issues running this as their default
configuration demonstrates that it isn't unsuitable for "regular
users."  I'm well aware of the argument you're making.  I simply
disagree with it, as apparently do the maintainers of Ubuntu and the
businessmen making money off of it.  Decisions on a
commercially-backed distro generally don't come down to the whim of
one person, at least not if they actually cause problems.

As far as symlinks go - they're a royal pain in the rear as they force
you to micromanage what ends up on which disk, and then when your
convoluted rat's nest of symlinks starts to become a problem it
becomes that much harder to fix it.  Symlinks and mountpoints used to
be the only tool in the toolbox, and to this day half of your OS is in
/usr and half isn't as a result.  :)

Volume management is a best practice, and it is right for Ubuntu to
make it a default for those who don't understand the pros and
virtually non-existant cons.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] systemD?

[Mick]

On Wednesday, 30 August 2017 22:18:40 BST Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 4:39 PM,   
wrote:
> > are some of the available kernels not systemd,
> 
> Michael's answer was correct, but I just wanted to note that the
> kernel and systemd are really two different things.  You don't really
> need to do anything special with the kernel to not use systemd.
> 
> If you do use systemd (or openrc) you do need to make sure the kernel
> has the required options enabled.  The gentoo-sources package has menu
> items that automatically select these, both for openrc and systemd.
> There really isn't anything special here - lots of software requires
> certain kernel features to work.  There is generally no harm in
> turning on options you don't need.
> 
> You generally won't end up with systemd on Gentoo unless you go
> looking for it.  If something does pull it in there is usually a way
> to avoid it, and somebody around here would be able to help you with
> that until you accept your fate and line up for assimilation...

BTW, if you run ps axf and come across '/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd --daemon' 
don't panic.  RHL advocates of monolithic stack for Linux haven't taken over 
your machine, but that's how udev is packaged these days even if you have not 
installed or enabled systemd on your OS.

PS. If you are still uncertain, this trick (I believe it must have been fixed 
in recent versions of systemd) may crash your systemd running PC  :-p

 https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Simplest NTP client for standalone system?

[Alan McKinnon]

On 30/08/2017 13:25, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 09:49:58AM -0700, Rich Freeman wrote
>> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 8:32 AM, Alan McKinnon  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Another example is LVM. You or I might really need it (debatable now we
>>> have ZFS) but the average user has no concept of what it might be, or
>>> care. So why do Ubuntu installers shove it in your face as something
>>> really cool that you should really really use? Because the author of the
>>> installer thinks it's really cool, that's why.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe.
>>
>> Or maybe because when that computer's hard drive starts getting full
>> and you add a new hard drive, if you're using lvm with a few commands
>> you can make your /home expand across both drives, while with straight
>> partitions that is a lot more work.
> 
>   1) I don't recall having added a hard drive for many years.
> 
>   2) How difficult is it to symlink directories?

Oh that part is easy. One command, ln, with the option -s.

Now go and get your grandma to do it, and come tell us what happened.


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Simplest NTP client for standalone system?

[Alan McKinnon]

On 29/08/2017 18:49, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 8:32 AM, Alan McKinnon  
> wrote:
>>
>> Another example is LVM. You or I might really need it (debatable now we
>> have ZFS) but the average user has no concept of what it might be, or
>> care. So why do Ubuntu installers shove it in your face as something
>> really cool that you should really really use? Because the author of the
>> installer thinks it's really cool, that's why.
>>
> 
> Maybe.
> 
> Or maybe because when that computer's hard drive starts getting full
> and you add a new hard drive, if you're using lvm with a few commands
> you can make your /home expand across both drives, while with straight
> partitions that is a lot more work.
> 
> There really is no reason not to use some kind of volume management
> solution these days, whether that is zfs/btrfs, or lvm.  When your
> data is on lvm it is MUCH easier to move it around than if you just
> put it directly on drive partitions.
> 
> Arguably you want more flexibility around adding/removing drives on
> the desktop than in the enterprise, because desktop users don't add
> and remove drives in sets of 5-6.  This is why I think btrfs is
> actually superior to zfs conceptually on the desktop (setting aside
> the fact that it will tend to eat your data) - the flexibility matters
> more on the small scale because you want to go from a 3-disk RAID5 to
> a 4-disk RAID5.


Yes, I know what LVM is for and how to drive it. I think it's wonderful
software for what it was designed to do, and it's "does what it says on
the box" score is way up there with much other good stuff.

But I'm not talking about it for users like you and I.
I've said over and over in this thread about regular users and you seem
to be missing that part; it's the entirety of everything I'm saying
here. I didn't say LVM shouldn't be available, I said that installers
shouldn't put it up front and centre in the user's face claiming that
it's awesome.

Your average user has no idea what volume management even is and are
completely lost when it comes up. They just have no mental image of what
it even could be and a tool that is not understood and not used is not
worth installing.


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] initial compile time

[Alan McKinnon]

On 29/08/2017 21:30, Dale wrote:
> Mick wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 29 August 2017 12:08:12 BST Alan McKinnon wrote:


>> PS. Did I mention you would have to do all of the above using a dial-up 
>> modem, 
>> which would require off-tree modules, because your PC came with a Winmodem?
>>
>> PPS. In case you have never been cursed with using a winmodem, check the 2nd 
>> bullet point at the bottom of this page:
>>
>>  http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/winmodem.html
>>
> 
> 
> Could we not mention dial-u?  It brings back bad memories.  LOL  I used
> to hate when OOo would update, which took about 26 to 28 hours to
> download, only to have it update again three or four days later. 
> Obviously, none of the previous tarball could be used.  :-@
> 
> I've never done a stage 1 install but if I had a decent spare rig to
> play with, I'd give it a shot.  I'd just try not to shoot myself in the
> foot.  o_O 

No Dale, please actually go and do it. All of Gentoo will appreciate it,
because you will be the guy that finds every last bug still hiding in
the process.

You know this will happen, so we are counting on you!

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] initial compile time

[Alan McKinnon]

On 29/08/2017 18:47, Mick wrote:
> On Tuesday, 29 August 2017 12:08:12 BST Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> On 28/08/2017 22:20, mad.scientist.at.la...@tutanota.com wrote:
>>> |it's not so hard yet, just hard to get by reading it in advance, doing
>>>
>>> it is fairly straight forward. 
>>
>> It only seems like it might be tricky when reading it.
>> Running Gentoo involves steps that you do on almost no other distro, so
>> the words on the web page are unfamiliar.
>>
>> Almost everyone that's done it for the first time in the last 5 years
>> and reported up says "Gee, that wasn't so hard! A lot easier than I ever
>> thought it would be!"
>>
>> It's also very obvious what each step actually did, but you have to do
>> it yourself once - it's obvious in petrospec.
>>
>> Welcome to Gentoo-land. May your stay be long and happy and fruitful.
>>
>> Your next assigned task (to be done sometime in the next year) is to
>> repeat the whole process on a test rig and do it from a stage 1. Like we
>> all did 15 years ago. If serious street cred brownie points is what you
>> are after, that's how you get 'em!
> 
> Nope.  You need to do a stage 1 on nothing newer than a Pentium 3 or 
> equivalent for it to count, run out of compile space on PORTAGE_TMPDIR, 
> reformat and start again.
> 
> For extra street cred you would of course install ~arch and have to work-
> around every darn bug you came across by the n'th time you had to start 
> recompiling from scratch, because both gcc and the profile USE flags changed 
> 3 
> times during the 2 weeks it would invariably take you to finish your install.
> 
> In between all this pain, you may also discover your MoBo would hard lock 
> every time your mismatched RAM modules started paging over to swap ...  O_O
> 
> but after a hard reboot it would be OK until the next big compile.
> 
> I understand this to be an endeavour not dissimilar to climbing Everest 
> during 
> an avalanche.
> 
> PS. Did I mention you would have to do all of the above using a dial-up 
> modem, 
> which would require off-tree modules, because your PC came with a Winmodem?
> 
> PPS. In case you have never been cursed with using a winmodem, check the 2nd 
> bullet point at the bottom of this page:
> 
>  http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/winmodem.html
> 


Let's see, the most bottom line stage 1 I ever did was on an AMD athlon
cpu with 512M Ram and an 80G IDE Drive. Didn't have the mobo lockups
tho, but did have the devil's own time fiddling with overclocking and
other goodies in the BIOS. Eventually I just selected "Optimal" and let
them damn thing figure out what it thought was best...

Sadly, I missed the whole winmodem saga and never had a need to use one.
I had a US Robotics 56k dialup modem and in those days almost all mobos
came with serial ports. So I probably got lucky.

there's also the fun and games 20 years before that typing silly games
on a ZX Spectrum, saving to cassette tape and hoping the bloody thing
plays back OK. But that's a whole other story and I'm sure you are not
even vaguely interested :-)

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

[gentoo-user] Re: processor speed

[Grant Edwards]

On 2017-08-30, R0b0t1  wrote:

> A decade was about how long I expect my i7-4770k based system to last,
> assuming I have absolutely no money to upgrade before then.

My Monochrome 8MHz IBM AT has lasted 32 years.

Of course I've upgraded/replaced the hard drive(s) a dozen or so
times, the mother board a half dozen times, the case 4 or 5 times, the
power supply a half-dozen times, the video card 3-4 times, and the
monitor 4 times.  It's also been through a half-dozen or so different
brands of Linux starting with Yggdrasil in 1992. [Before that it ran
the Mark Williams Coherent v7 Unix clone.]

The original keyboard is still going strong!

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! Should I get locked
  at   in the PRINCICAL'S
  gmail.comOFFICE today -- or have
   a VASECTOMY??

Re: [gentoo-user] systemD?

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 4:39 PM,   wrote:
> are some of the available kernels not systemd,

Michael's answer was correct, but I just wanted to note that the
kernel and systemd are really two different things.  You don't really
need to do anything special with the kernel to not use systemd.

If you do use systemd (or openrc) you do need to make sure the kernel
has the required options enabled.  The gentoo-sources package has menu
items that automatically select these, both for openrc and systemd.
There really isn't anything special here - lots of software requires
certain kernel features to work.  There is generally no harm in
turning on options you don't need.

You generally won't end up with systemd on Gentoo unless you go
looking for it.  If something does pull it in there is usually a way
to avoid it, and somebody around here would be able to help you with
that until you accept your fate and line up for assimilation...

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] systemD?

[Dale]

mad.scientist.at.la...@tutanota.com wrote:
> kool, i can do that.  thanks.
>
> -- 
> The Power Of the People Is Stronger Than The People In Charge.
>
>
> 30. Aug 2017 14:54 by m...@gentoo.org :
>
> On 08/30/2017 04:39 PM, mad.scientist.at.la...@tutanota.com
>  wrote:
>
> I do not want to start a whole systemd storm, glad i was
> offline for
> that. however, in my case i'd really like to avoid systemd. can i
> setup with out systemd, or do i need to remove and patch later. 
>
>
> If you follow the handbook and skip the parts that say "if you want to
> use systemd..." then you'll end up without systemd.
>


You may want to add "-systemd" to the USE line in make.conf as early as
possible.  That way you can build packages without it from the start. 

Hope that helps.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] systemD?

[mad.scientist.at.large]

kool, i can do that.  thanks.

--
The Power Of the People Is Stronger Than The People In Charge.


30. Aug 2017 14:54 by m...@gentoo.org:


> On 08/30/2017 04:39 PM, > mad.scientist.at.la...@tutanota.com>  wrote:
>> I do not want to start a whole systemd storm, glad i was offline for
>> that.  however, in my case i'd really like to avoid systemd.  can i
>> setup with out systemd, or do i need to remove and patch later. 
>
> If you follow the handbook and skip the parts that say "if you want to
> use systemd..." then you'll end up without systemd.

Re: [gentoo-user] systemD?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 08/30/2017 04:39 PM, mad.scientist.at.la...@tutanota.com wrote:
> I do not want to start a whole systemd storm, glad i was offline for
> that.  however, in my case i'd really like to avoid systemd.  can i
> setup with out systemd, or do i need to remove and patch later. 

If you follow the handbook and skip the parts that say "if you want to
use systemd..." then you'll end up without systemd.

Re: [gentoo-user] processor speed

[R0b0t1]

On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 9:49 AM, Daniel Frey  wrote:
> On 08/29/2017 08:09 PM, R0b0t1 wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 12:07 AM, Dale  wrote:
>>> Rich Freeman wrote:
>>>
>>> Isn't it amazing how efficient and fast newer computers are?  It's
>>> almost worth the energy saving to upgrade.  If a person runs their
>>> system 24/7, that is even more reason.
>>>
>>
>> It's something I used to bring up in #gentoo when people would come in
>> and ask or complain about compilation times. The amortization period
>> for computers is generally 3 years. If you use them longer, you are
>> (in theory) losing money relative to your competitors.
>>
>> As a home user, your time and energy budgets might not be so tight,
>> but the lack of stress is worth a nice desktop for compiling your
>> software.
>>
>>
>
> I'm sort of on the fence for now. I bought my computer in 2008 (but an
> expensive processor, QX9650, with 8GB of RAM, very $$$ in 2008) and it
> still is running fine today. It still compiles reasonably quickly, as I
> use distcc with one other computer) and am still on spinning rust, but
> in RAID. My mythtv frontends have SSDs and every one has had the SSD
> replaced at least once.
>

A decade was about how long I expect my i7-4770k based system to last,
assuming I have absolutely no money to upgrade before then.

> My main frontend in the living room has shown problems (hanging while
> playing back recordings, and I mean a hard-lock... no ssh, no response
> at all, and the backend had in its logs "where'd it go? closing
> connection") and so I think the hardware may finally be at the end of
> its life. That was also built in 2008.
>
> I'm not going to throw a working computer out (well, recycle it) if I
> don't have to. Power is cheap here.
>
> I have concerns about the backend (Q6600) and frontend (E7500), as they
> were both built in 2008, but the thing is, they're just as fast as I
> remember them when built new.
>
> For the frontend replacement I think I'm going to jump to one of the
> Ryzen products. I don't need ThreadRipper there, but one of their other
> processors will work. The backend will get a faster processor but it's
> part of my distcc cluster.
>
> I think Dale posted a libreoffice build speed, mine isn't so bad either,
> but I'm using RAID and distcc:
>
> $ genlop -t libreoffice
>  * app-office/libreoffice
>
>  Tue Aug  1 08:45:28 2017 >>> app-office/libreoffice-5.2.7.2
>merge time: 1 hour, 22 minutes and 53 seconds.
>
> I *really* hate the climate nowadays of toss it out when it acts up/gets
> slow.
>

Like I mention in another thread (and like Rich touches on) power
savings can be an incentive to upgrade, besides the increase in speed.
Power efficiency and speed generally increase in multiples greater
than one, so you are reducing the cost and time of compilations or
general use by a lot in the end.

Look at Alan's quoted build times for an example.

R0b0t1.

[gentoo-user] systemD?

[mad.scientist.at.large]

I do not want to start a whole systemd storm, glad i was offline for that.  
however, in my case i'd really like to avoid systemd.  can i setup with out 
systemd, or do i need to remove and patch later.  obviously better to start 
without it in this case.  so are some of the available kernels not systemd, and 
how much does it change the  installation?  i did search for it, and found a 
couple docs at gentoo.org it doesn't look too bad.  thanks.

--
The Power Of the People Is Stronger Than The People In Charge.

Re: [gentoo-user] processor speed

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hello, Daniel.

On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 07:49:49 -0700, Daniel Frey wrote:

[  ]

> For the frontend replacement I think I'm going to jump to one of the
> Ryzen products. I don't need ThreadRipper there, but one of their other
> processors will work. The backend will get a faster processor but it's
> part of my distcc cluster.

> I think Dale posted a libreoffice build speed, mine isn't so bad either,
> but I'm using RAID and distcc:

> $ genlop -t libreoffice
>  * app-office/libreoffice

>  Tue Aug  1 08:45:28 2017 >>> app-office/libreoffice-5.2.7.2
>merge time: 1 hour, 22 minutes and 53 seconds.

> I *really* hate the climate nowadays of toss it out when it acts up/gets
> slow.

Just for comparison, my new Ryzen 1700X box, with 16 GB RAM, and two 500
GB SSDs connected to the PCI bus (courtesy of Samsung) in a RAID-1,
compiled libreoffice for the first time in around 25 minutes.  (It
actually took ~35 minutes including 40-odd other packages.)  This was
with /var/tmp on a RAM disk.

If money isn't tight, treat yourself!  There's something nice about only
being able to drink one cup of coffee whilst LO is building, and XFCE4
starting in less than a second is also quite gratifying.

I built my new box partly because the old one from 2009, though still
working, is not going to be working for ever, and the announcement of
the Ryzen processors finished the prompting.  On this machine, building
LO takes around two and a half hours.

> Dan

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Re: [gentoo-user] USBasp recognized/not recognized...what?

[tuxic]

Hi,

ok, I fixed it myself...an udev-rule was missing a '"'...
(and I am missing a coffee...)

Sorry for the false alert...!
Cheers
Meino




On 08/30 03:59, tu...@posteo.de wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> for some third party USBasp (ISP flash programmer) clones I got
> some dubious situation:
> 
> These devices mainly consists of an ATmega 8A AU, which USB ports
> connect to a USB connector and smoe GPIOs are used to flash
> an attached microcontroller via ISP.
> 
> That's the theory.
> 
> Now I attach such a device to my Gentoo Linux box.
> 
> dmesg saus:
> [ 1919.948832] usb 7-4: new low-speed USB device number 7 using ohci-pci
> [ 1920.108797] usb 7-4: New USB device found, idVendor=16c0, idProduct=05dc
> [ 1920.108805] usb 7-4: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, 
> SerialNumber=0
> [ 1920.108809] usb 7-4: Product: USBasp
> [ 1920.108812] usb 7-4: Manufacturer: www.fischl.de
> 
> which looks ok to me.
> 
> lsusb says:
> Bus 007 Device 007: ID 16c0:05dc Van Ooijen Technische Informatica shared ID 
> for use with libusb
> Device Descriptor:
>   bLength18
>   bDescriptorType 1
>   bcdUSB   1.10
>   bDeviceClass  255 Vendor Specific Class
>   bDeviceSubClass 0 
>   bDeviceProtocol 0 
>   bMaxPacketSize0 8
>   idVendor   0x16c0 Van Ooijen Technische Informatica
>   idProduct  0x05dc shared ID for use with libusb
>   bcdDevice1.02
>   iManufacturer   1 www.fischl.de
>   iProduct2 USBasp
>   iSerial 0 
>   bNumConfigurations  1
>   Configuration Descriptor:
> bLength 9
> bDescriptorType 2
> wTotalLength   18
> bNumInterfaces  1
> bConfigurationValue 1
> iConfiguration  0 
> bmAttributes 0x80
>   (Bus Powered)
> MaxPower   50mA
> Interface Descriptor:
>   bLength 9
>   bDescriptorType 4
>   bInterfaceNumber0
>   bAlternateSetting   0
>   bNumEndpoints   0
>   bInterfaceClass 0 
>   bInterfaceSubClass  0 
>   bInterfaceProtocol  0 
>   iInterface  0 
> Device Status: 0x
>   (Bus Powered)
> 
> which also looks not that bad.
> 
> ...but...I get no device under /dev/
> like /dev/ttyUSB0 or such...
> 
> there only an entry here
> ls -l /dev/bus/usb/007/007
> crw-rw-r-- 1 root usb 189, 774 2017-08-30 17:56 007
> 
> Do I need more coffee or do I need morewhat?
> 
> Any help is much appreciated!
> 
> Cheers
> Meino
> 
> 
> 

[gentoo-user] USBasp recognized/not recognized...what?

[tuxic]

Hi,

for some third party USBasp (ISP flash programmer) clones I got
some dubious situation:

These devices mainly consists of an ATmega 8A AU, which USB ports
connect to a USB connector and smoe GPIOs are used to flash
an attached microcontroller via ISP.

That's the theory.

Now I attach such a device to my Gentoo Linux box.

dmesg saus:
[ 1919.948832] usb 7-4: new low-speed USB device number 7 using ohci-pci
[ 1920.108797] usb 7-4: New USB device found, idVendor=16c0, idProduct=05dc
[ 1920.108805] usb 7-4: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
[ 1920.108809] usb 7-4: Product: USBasp
[ 1920.108812] usb 7-4: Manufacturer: www.fischl.de

which looks ok to me.

lsusb says:
Bus 007 Device 007: ID 16c0:05dc Van Ooijen Technische Informatica shared ID 
for use with libusb
Device Descriptor:
  bLength18
  bDescriptorType 1
  bcdUSB   1.10
  bDeviceClass  255 Vendor Specific Class
  bDeviceSubClass 0 
  bDeviceProtocol 0 
  bMaxPacketSize0 8
  idVendor   0x16c0 Van Ooijen Technische Informatica
  idProduct  0x05dc shared ID for use with libusb
  bcdDevice1.02
  iManufacturer   1 www.fischl.de
  iProduct2 USBasp
  iSerial 0 
  bNumConfigurations  1
  Configuration Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 2
wTotalLength   18
bNumInterfaces  1
bConfigurationValue 1
iConfiguration  0 
bmAttributes 0x80
  (Bus Powered)
MaxPower   50mA
Interface Descriptor:
  bLength 9
  bDescriptorType 4
  bInterfaceNumber0
  bAlternateSetting   0
  bNumEndpoints   0
  bInterfaceClass 0 
  bInterfaceSubClass  0 
  bInterfaceProtocol  0 
  iInterface  0 
Device Status: 0x
  (Bus Powered)

which also looks not that bad.

...but...I get no device under /dev/
like /dev/ttyUSB0 or such...

there only an entry here
ls -l /dev/bus/usb/007/007
crw-rw-r-- 1 root usb 189, 774 2017-08-30 17:56 007

Do I need more coffee or do I need morewhat?

Any help is much appreciated!

Cheers
Meino

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[Mick]

On Wednesday, 30 August 2017 15:42:47 BST Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> On 2017-08-30 09:32, Mick wrote:
> > > Unfortunately this isn't a viable strategy because typically you
> > > will, in a few months, if not a single month, spend more in
> > > electricity costs than you would purchasing a new single board
> > > computer.
> > 
> > Perhaps in a commercial 24x7x365 high compute cycle application this
> > would hold water, but in the case of a home PC running 14 hours a day
> > at maximum power you might save enough to buy a small spinning SATA
> > drive after a year, or a Raspberry Pi without peripherals, but not a
> > new PC.  Of course, if:
> > 
> > 1. your PC is not running at full speed all the time;
> > 2. it is not a PentiumD dual core (were they the most power hungry?);
> > 3. you're not still running a CRT monitor;
> > 4. you tend to suspend to RAM when not in front of it;
> > 5. a new PC is not at least 50% more efficient;
> > 6. the price of electricity is not exorbitant (I pay approximately
> > £0.13/KWh + £0.29/day)
> > 
> > then you will need other reasons to upgrade.  When the PC you're using
> > is a laptop, then the case for upgrading on grounds of savings on
> > electricity costs alone is even more tenuous.
> 
> Also: how long is the replacement going to last?  Anything with flash as
> the main storage will be back at the recycling station (ideally) within
> a couple of years.  This includes all the consumer routers I've ever
> had, including the beloved blue Linksys.

With consumer grade router/modems I've found the capacitors are of a low 
rating and therefore within a few years (or sooner if your area experiences 
brown outs and power cuts/surges) they give up the ghost.  Replacing the 
capacitors in their power supply and sometimes a couple of their internal 
capacitors with capacitors of a higher rating for just a few cents, by passes 
this built-in obsolescence and extends their useful life for quite a few more 
years.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[Daniel Frey]

On 08/30/2017 07:42 AM, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> On 2017-08-30 09:32, Mick wrote:
> 
>>> Unfortunately this isn't a viable strategy because typically you
>>> will, in a few months, if not a single month, spend more in
>>> electricity costs than you would purchasing a new single board
>>> computer.
> 
>> Perhaps in a commercial 24x7x365 high compute cycle application this
>> would hold water, but in the case of a home PC running 14 hours a day
>> at maximum power you might save enough to buy a small spinning SATA
>> drive after a year, or a Raspberry Pi without peripherals, but not a
>> new PC.  Of course, if:
>>
>> 1. your PC is not running at full speed all the time;
>> 2. it is not a PentiumD dual core (were they the most power hungry?);
>> 3. you're not still running a CRT monitor;
>> 4. you tend to suspend to RAM when not in front of it;
>> 5. a new PC is not at least 50% more efficient;
>> 6. the price of electricity is not exorbitant (I pay approximately
>> £0.13/KWh + £0.29/day)
>>
>> then you will need other reasons to upgrade.  When the PC you're using
>> is a laptop, then the case for upgrading on grounds of savings on
>> electricity costs alone is even more tenuous.
> 
> Also: how long is the replacement going to last?  Anything with flash as
> the main storage will be back at the recycling station (ideally) within
> a couple of years.  This includes all the consumer routers I've ever
> had, including the beloved blue Linksys.
> 

This is the reason I was looking into a UBNT router for my home - if you
pop the cover off it has a USB port with a stick plugged in. Stick
fails, insert a new one and do a recovery. There's several threads on
their forums where this has happened and users successfully replaced the
USB thumb drive and were back up and running. That it can route at near
gigabit speeds doesn't hurt its chances either.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] processor speed

[Daniel Frey]

On 08/29/2017 08:09 PM, R0b0t1 wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 12:07 AM, Dale  wrote:
>> Rich Freeman wrote:
>>
>> Isn't it amazing how efficient and fast newer computers are?  It's
>> almost worth the energy saving to upgrade.  If a person runs their
>> system 24/7, that is even more reason.
>>
> 
> It's something I used to bring up in #gentoo when people would come in
> and ask or complain about compilation times. The amortization period
> for computers is generally 3 years. If you use them longer, you are
> (in theory) losing money relative to your competitors.
> 
> As a home user, your time and energy budgets might not be so tight,
> but the lack of stress is worth a nice desktop for compiling your
> software.
> 
> 

I'm sort of on the fence for now. I bought my computer in 2008 (but an
expensive processor, QX9650, with 8GB of RAM, very $$$ in 2008) and it
still is running fine today. It still compiles reasonably quickly, as I
use distcc with one other computer) and am still on spinning rust, but
in RAID. My mythtv frontends have SSDs and every one has had the SSD
replaced at least once.

My main frontend in the living room has shown problems (hanging while
playing back recordings, and I mean a hard-lock... no ssh, no response
at all, and the backend had in its logs "where'd it go? closing
connection") and so I think the hardware may finally be at the end of
its life. That was also built in 2008.

I'm not going to throw a working computer out (well, recycle it) if I
don't have to. Power is cheap here.

I have concerns about the backend (Q6600) and frontend (E7500), as they
were both built in 2008, but the thing is, they're just as fast as I
remember them when built new.

For the frontend replacement I think I'm going to jump to one of the
Ryzen products. I don't need ThreadRipper there, but one of their other
processors will work. The backend will get a faster processor but it's
part of my distcc cluster.

I think Dale posted a libreoffice build speed, mine isn't so bad either,
but I'm using RAID and distcc:

$ genlop -t libreoffice
 * app-office/libreoffice

 Tue Aug  1 08:45:28 2017 >>> app-office/libreoffice-5.2.7.2
   merge time: 1 hour, 22 minutes and 53 seconds.

I *really* hate the climate nowadays of toss it out when it acts up/gets
slow.

Dan

[gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2017-08-30 09:32, Mick wrote:

> > Unfortunately this isn't a viable strategy because typically you
> > will, in a few months, if not a single month, spend more in
> > electricity costs than you would purchasing a new single board
> > computer.

> Perhaps in a commercial 24x7x365 high compute cycle application this
> would hold water, but in the case of a home PC running 14 hours a day
> at maximum power you might save enough to buy a small spinning SATA
> drive after a year, or a Raspberry Pi without peripherals, but not a
> new PC.  Of course, if:
> 
> 1. your PC is not running at full speed all the time;
> 2. it is not a PentiumD dual core (were they the most power hungry?);
> 3. you're not still running a CRT monitor;
> 4. you tend to suspend to RAM when not in front of it;
> 5. a new PC is not at least 50% more efficient;
> 6. the price of electricity is not exorbitant (I pay approximately
> £0.13/KWh + £0.29/day)
> 
> then you will need other reasons to upgrade.  When the PC you're using
> is a laptop, then the case for upgrading on grounds of savings on
> electricity costs alone is even more tenuous.

Also: how long is the replacement going to last?  Anything with flash as
the main storage will be back at the recycling station (ideally) within
a couple of years.  This includes all the consumer routers I've ever
had, including the beloved blue Linksys.

-- 
Please don't Cc: me privately on mailing lists and Usenet,
if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup.
Do obvious transformation on domain to reply privately _only_ on Usenet.

[gentoo-user] Re: Easiest way to block domains?

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2017-08-30 06:47, Walter Dnes wrote:

> > uBlock Origin
> > uMatrix
> > EFF Privacy Badger
> 
> I use Pale Moon.  There's a Pale Moon specific fork of AdBlock, called
> AdBlock Latitude https://addons.palemoon.org/addon/adblock-latitude/
> but I prefer to avoid addons.

uBlockOrigin works perfectly with Pale Moon.  Really, it is The Way of
undesirable www content blocking now.

-- 
Please don't Cc: me privately on mailing lists and Usenet,
if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup.
Do obvious transformation on domain to reply privately _only_ on Usenet.

Re: [gentoo-user] Simplest NTP client for standalone system?

[Walter Dnes]

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 09:49:58AM -0700, Rich Freeman wrote
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 8:32 AM, Alan McKinnon  
> wrote:
> >
> > Another example is LVM. You or I might really need it (debatable now we
> > have ZFS) but the average user has no concept of what it might be, or
> > care. So why do Ubuntu installers shove it in your face as something
> > really cool that you should really really use? Because the author of the
> > installer thinks it's really cool, that's why.
> >
> 
> Maybe.
> 
> Or maybe because when that computer's hard drive starts getting full
> and you add a new hard drive, if you're using lvm with a few commands
> you can make your /home expand across both drives, while with straight
> partitions that is a lot more work.

  1) I don't recall having added a hard drive for many years.

  2) How difficult is it to symlink directories?

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] Easiest way to block domains?

[Walter Dnes]

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 10:17:27PM -0500, R0b0t1 wrote
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 12:38 AM, Walter Dnes  wrote:
> >   I'm running a Core2-duo desktop from 2008 with 3 gigs of ram.  I want
> > to run it into the ground, not throw it away while it's still
> > functional.
> 
> Unfortunately this isn't a viable strategy because typically you will,
> in a few months, if not a single month, spend more in electricity
> costs than you would purchasing a new single board computer.

  That might be true if running at full load 24x7.  Before going to bed
I run a script that...

* drops the cpu speed down to min (1.2 GHz) from the 2.4 GHz max using my
  own custom-written eselect module.

* turn the display off programmatically.  It uses 2 commands, so it'll
  work regardless of whether I run it from X or a true text console

#!/bin/bash
sleep 1 && xset -display :0.0 dpms force off
setterm --blank force

  The "setterm" command complains when run from X, but that's not a
problem

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] Easiest way to block domains?

[Walter Dnes]

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 11:22:14AM +0200, David Haller wrote

> # Farcepalm
> address=/fb.com/127.0.1.1
> address=/fbcdn.net/127.0.1.1
> address=/facebook.com/127.0.1.1
> address=/facebook.net/127.0.1.1
> address=/facebook.de/127.0.1.1
> address=/facebook.fr/127.0.1.1
> address=/facebook.co.uk/127.0.1.1
> address=/whatsapp.de/127.0.1.1
> address=/whatsapp.com/127.0.1.1
> address=/internet.org/127.0.1.1
> address=/internet.com/127.0.1.1
> # ...
> 
> 
> Result:
> 
> $ host fb.com
> fb.com has address 127.0.1.1
> $ nslookup fb.com
> Server: 127.0.0.1
> Address:127.0.0.1#53
> 
> Name:   fb.com
> Address: 127.0.1.1
> 
> It's still a ton of domains to add, but much less generally. I still
> wish it'd do "shell-style" globbing like /facebook.*/ or
> /facebook.{com,net,de,fr,co.uk}/ ... You could write a little
> generator for that if need be ...

  Facebook is better-handled in iptables...

[0:0] -A INPUT -s 31.13.24.0/21 -j FECESBOOK
[194:15548] -A INPUT -s 31.13.64.0/18 -j FECESBOOK
[0:0] -A INPUT -s 66.220.144.0/20 -j FECESBOOK
[0:0] -A INPUT -s 69.63.176.0/20 -j FECESBOOK
[0:0] -A INPUT -s 69.171.224.0/19 -j FECESBOOK
[0:0] -A INPUT -s 74.119.76.0/22 -j FECESBOOK
[0:0] -A INPUT -s 103.4.96.0/22 -j FECESBOOK
[0:0] -A INPUT -s 173.252.64.0/18 -j FECESBOOK
[0:0] -A INPUT -s 204.15.20.0/22 -j FECESBOOK

[0:0] -A OUTPUT -d 31.13.24.0/21 -j FECESBOOK
[4035959:242209304] -A OUTPUT -d 31.13.64.0/18 -j FECESBOOK
[56:3360] -A OUTPUT -d 66.220.144.0/20 -j FECESBOOK
[0:0] -A OUTPUT -d 69.63.176.0/20 -j FECESBOOK
[874:52440] -A OUTPUT -d 69.171.224.0/19 -j FECESBOOK
[0:0] -A OUTPUT -d 74.119.76.0/22 -j FECESBOOK
[0:0] -A OUTPUT -d 103.4.96.0/22 -j FECESBOOK
[3306:198360] -A OUTPUT -d 173.252.64.0/18 -j FECESBOOK
[0:0] -A OUTPUT -d 204.15.20.0/22 -j FECESBOOK

[4040389:242479012] -A FECESBOOK -j LOG --log-prefix "FECESBOOK:" --log-level 6
[4040389:242479012] -A FECESBOOK -j DROP

  The [packet:byte] counters show how much traffic each rule gets.  It
may be different dependeng where on the planet you are.

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] Easiest way to block domains?

[Walter Dnes]

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 11:09:00AM +0200, Heiko Baums wrote

> I'm using the combination of these browser add-ons available for
> Firefox and Chromium:
> 
> uBlock Origin
> uMatrix
> EFF Privacy Badger

  I use Pale Moon.  There's a Pale Moon specific fork of AdBlock, called
AdBlock Latitude https://addons.palemoon.org/addon/adblock-latitude/ but
I prefer to avoid addons.

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] Why isn't this SDcard mounting?

[Mick]

On Tuesday, 29 August 2017 22:27:36 BST Stroller wrote:
> > On 29 Aug 2017, at 19:15, Mick  wrote:
> > ...
> > This may have been mentioned already, but do you have sys-fs/udisks
> > installed?
> I did not.
> 
> > Check the output of udisksctl status/monitor/info and see what it reveals.
> > Then check if you can mount the device with udiskctl.
> 
> Having installed it I got "Error connecting to the udisks daemon: Could not
> connect: No such file or directory" a few times, until it occurred to me to
> start dbus. This may be the first time I've ever done so.
> 
> I was then able to get a status and info for the drive.
> 
> I cannot mount the drive using `sudo mount -v /dev/sdb1 /mnt/tmp`, but I am
> able to do so using `udisksctl`:
> 
>   $ sudo udisksctl mount -b /dev/sdb1
>   Mounted /dev/sdb1 at /run/media/root/6D18-12B4.
>   $

OK, this shows your kernel modules for mounting this device are not missing 
anything critical.


> Unexpectedly I find 10MB of files on the device - the same size as the
> loopback device which previously claimed to be mounted (and 6MB less than
> the files I had intended to copy to it).
> 
> No /dev/sdb1 has been created.
> 
> There are aspects of this I still don't understand, but I am grateful to
> everyone who has provided their time.
> 
> Stroller.

Many desktops use udisks to handle plugging/unplugging:

 https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Udisks

which requires dbus and polkit.  However, if this is running headless and 
minimal without many of the desktop nice-to-have functionality, at least check 
you have added your user to the plugdev group and perhaps usb.

Instead of udisks you can also use:

- 'udevadm monitor' and plug your device to see what kernel and udev events it 
generates.

- 'lsblk -o +fstype,label,uuid,partuuid' to make sure the device mount point 
is not being claimed by some other mount like loopback - which I noticed in 
your output, but can't explain why it is happening ...  :-/

HTH.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Easiest way to block domains?

[Mick]

On Wednesday, 30 August 2017 04:17:27 BST R0b0t1 wrote:
> Unfortunately this isn't a viable strategy because typically you will,
> in a few months, if not a single month, spend more in electricity
> costs than you would purchasing a new single board computer.

Are you sure of this?

Perhaps in a commercial 24x7x365 high compute cycle application this would 
hold water, but in the case of a home PC running 14 hours a day at maximum 
power you might save enough to buy a small spinning SATA drive after a year, 
or a Raspberry Pi without peripherals, but not a new PC.  Of course, if:

1. your PC is not running at full speed all the time;
2. it is not a PentiumD dual core (were they the most power hungry?);
3. you're not still running a CRT monitor;
4. you tend to suspend to RAM when not in front of it;
5. a new PC is not at least 50% more efficient;
6. the price of electricity is not exorbitant (I pay approximately £0.13/KWh + 
£0.29/day)

then you will need other reasons to upgrade.  When the PC you're using is a 
laptop, then the case for upgrading on grounds of savings on electricity costs 
alone is even more tenuous.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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