[gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?
On 10/02/2011 11:44 AM, Dale wrote: Look into app-portage/ufed. Hey, cl. That is some cool stuff. Maybe I can use this to clean this up: USE=3dnow 3dnowext X a52 aac acpi alsa amd64 aml apng automount avahi [snip monstrosity] It seems you confused make.conf with package.use :-P
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?
Nikos Chantziaras wrote: On 10/02/2011 11:44 AM, Dale wrote: Look into app-portage/ufed. Hey, cl. That is some cool stuff. Maybe I can use this to clean this up: USE=3dnow 3dnowext X a52 aac acpi alsa amd64 aml apng automount avahi [snip monstrosity] It seems you confused make.conf with package.use :-P I rarely use package.use. There is a couple lines in there but not many. I usually enable a USE flag globally in make.conf and be done with it. That's just me tho. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?
On 10/02/2011 12:14 PM, Dale wrote: Nikos Chantziaras wrote: On 10/02/2011 11:44 AM, Dale wrote: Look into app-portage/ufed. Hey, cl. That is some cool stuff. Maybe I can use this to clean this up: USE=3dnow 3dnowext X a52 aac acpi alsa amd64 aml apng automount avahi [snip monstrosity] It seems you confused make.conf with package.use :-P I rarely use package.use. There is a couple lines in there but not many. I usually enable a USE flag globally in make.conf and be done with it. Which results in the above chaos ;-P The obvious problem is that sometimes you enable a USE flag for some package, but that USE flag has an effect on other packages too if you put it in make.conf, even though you might not want that. One reason you might not want that are bloated dependencies. For example, you install package foo and you want the bar USE flag for it. If you put it in make.conf, other packages might also use that flag and pull-in its deps. Now if you unmerge foo, an emerge --depclean will not uninstall those deps. As time goes on, this results in a system full of deps you never really wanted and can't get rid of.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?
Nikos Chantziaras wrote: On 10/02/2011 12:14 PM, Dale wrote: Nikos Chantziaras wrote: On 10/02/2011 11:44 AM, Dale wrote: Look into app-portage/ufed. Hey, cl. That is some cool stuff. Maybe I can use this to clean this up: USE=3dnow 3dnowext X a52 aac acpi alsa amd64 aml apng automount avahi [snip monstrosity] It seems you confused make.conf with package.use :-P I rarely use package.use. There is a couple lines in there but not many. I usually enable a USE flag globally in make.conf and be done with it. Which results in the above chaos ;-P The obvious problem is that sometimes you enable a USE flag for some package, but that USE flag has an effect on other packages too if you put it in make.conf, even though you might not want that. One reason you might not want that are bloated dependencies. For example, you install package foo and you want the bar USE flag for it. If you put it in make.conf, other packages might also use that flag and pull-in its deps. Now if you unmerge foo, an emerge --depclean will not uninstall those deps. As time goes on, this results in a system full of deps you never really wanted and can't get rid of. In that case, I then use package.use. Like this in package.use: x11-base/xorg-server -hal net-misc/ntp caps -ipv6 media-gfx/gtkam debug sys-power/nut -usb I use package.use for those exceptions where I don't want something. Otherwise, I put it in make.conf so that I only have one file to deal with for the most part. I am OCD about some things, like brakes on my car, but I'm not that OCD about this one. I do wish emerge would give notice when a USE flag is invalid tho. It's nice that it just ignores it and goes on but a little message that one has fell off the list would be nice. To each his own I guess. This is how I been managing my USE flags since about 2003 and it works rather well. At least for me. ;-) Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 05:13:49 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Nikos Chantziaras wrote: On 10/02/2011 12:14 PM, Dale wrote: Nikos Chantziaras wrote: On 10/02/2011 11:44 AM, Dale wrote: Look into app-portage/ufed. Hey, cl. That is some cool stuff. Maybe I can use this to clean this up: USE=3dnow 3dnowext X a52 aac acpi alsa amd64 aml apng automount avahi [snip monstrosity] It seems you confused make.conf with package.use :-P I rarely use package.use. There is a couple lines in there but not many. I usually enable a USE flag globally in make.conf and be done with it. Which results in the above chaos ;-P The obvious problem is that sometimes you enable a USE flag for some package, but that USE flag has an effect on other packages too if you put it in make.conf, even though you might not want that. One reason you might not want that are bloated dependencies. For example, you install package foo and you want the bar USE flag for it. If you put it in make.conf, other packages might also use that flag and pull-in its deps. Now if you unmerge foo, an emerge --depclean will not uninstall those deps. As time goes on, this results in a system full of deps you never really wanted and can't get rid of. In that case, I then use package.use. Like this in package.use: x11-base/xorg-server -hal net-misc/ntp caps -ipv6 media-gfx/gtkam debug sys-power/nut -usb I use package.use for those exceptions where I don't want something. Otherwise, I put it in make.conf so that I only have one file to deal with for the most part. I am OCD about some things, like brakes on my car, but I'm not that OCD about this one. I do wish emerge would give notice when a USE flag is invalid tho. It's nice that it just ignores it and goes on but a little message that one has fell off the list would be nice. It does :-) emerge -p colorizes invalid USE flags and marks them in some way with an additional character. I forget who exactly it marks them (it's in the man page and I'm lazy today) but it does stick out like a sore thimb. To each his own I guess. This is how I been managing my USE flags since about 2003 and it works rather well. At least for me. ;-) Dale :-) :-) -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 05:13:49 -0500 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: In that case, I then use package.use. Like this in package.use: x11-base/xorg-server -hal net-misc/ntp caps -ipv6 media-gfx/gtkam debug sys-power/nut -usb I use package.use for those exceptions where I don't want something. Otherwise, I put it in make.conf so that I only have one file to deal with for the most part. I am OCD about some things, like brakes on my car, but I'm not that OCD about this one. I do wish emerge would give notice when a USE flag is invalid tho. It's nice that it just ignores it and goes on but a little message that one has fell off the list would be nice. It does :-) emerge -p colorizes invalid USE flags and marks them in some way with an additional character. I forget who exactly it marks them (it's in the man page and I'm lazy today) but it does stick out like a sore thimb. Hmmm, I never noticed that before. I think there was only two that was invalid tho. So, I guess there hasn't been as many removed as I thought, at least that I have used anyway. I did enable a couple that I didn't know about tho. lol My USE line ended up not being any smaller. lol Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 06:36:54 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 05:13:49 -0500 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: In that case, I then use package.use. Like this in package.use: x11-base/xorg-server -hal net-misc/ntp caps -ipv6 media-gfx/gtkam debug sys-power/nut -usb I use package.use for those exceptions where I don't want something. Otherwise, I put it in make.conf so that I only have one file to deal with for the most part. I am OCD about some things, like brakes on my car, but I'm not that OCD about this one. I do wish emerge would give notice when a USE flag is invalid tho. It's nice that it just ignores it and goes on but a little message that one has fell off the list would be nice. It does :-) emerge -p colorizes invalid USE flags and marks them in some way with an additional character. I forget who exactly it marks them (it's in the man page and I'm lazy today) but it does stick out like a sore thimb. Hmmm, I never noticed that before. I think there was only two that was invalid tho. So, I guess there hasn't been as many removed as I thought, at least that I have used anyway. I did enable a couple that I didn't know about tho. lol My USE line ended up not being any smaller. lol For example, you have USE=perl python in make.conf which pulls in a truly gigantic list of extra stuff that you will have little need of. Those two flags are coming out of profiles any day now so you will miss the long list of rebuilds that will cause. Try putting those two flags in package.use only for those packages that truly need it and when the change hits the tree sit back and watch just how much unneccessary cruft you have :-) You often mention the attraction of Gentoo is you get only what you want. But, consider this; if you put flags routinely in make.conf you lose most of that benefit. You end up with the equivalent of Mandrake where you complied it yourself, not the binary distro. USE=every possible flag enabled emerge something and yum install something a nd pretty much equivalent in terms of end result. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 06:36:54 -0500 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 05:13:49 -0500 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: In that case, I then use package.use. Like this in package.use: x11-base/xorg-server -hal net-misc/ntp caps -ipv6 media-gfx/gtkam debug sys-power/nut -usb I use package.use for those exceptions where I don't want something. Otherwise, I put it in make.conf so that I only have one file to deal with for the most part. I am OCD about some things, like brakes on my car, but I'm not that OCD about this one. I do wish emerge would give notice when a USE flag is invalid tho. It's nice that it just ignores it and goes on but a little message that one has fell off the list would be nice. It does :-) emerge -p colorizes invalid USE flags and marks them in some way with an additional character. I forget who exactly it marks them (it's in the man page and I'm lazy today) but it does stick out like a sore thimb. Hmmm, I never noticed that before. I think there was only two that was invalid tho. So, I guess there hasn't been as many removed as I thought, at least that I have used anyway. I did enable a couple that I didn't know about tho. lol My USE line ended up not being any smaller. lol For example, you have USE=perl python in make.conf which pulls in a truly gigantic list of extra stuff that you will have little need of. Those two flags are coming out of profiles any day now so you will miss the long list of rebuilds that will cause. Try putting those two flags in package.use only for those packages that truly need it and when the change hits the tree sit back and watch just how much unneccessary cruft you have :-) You often mention the attraction of Gentoo is you get only what you want. But, consider this; if you put flags routinely in make.conf you lose most of that benefit. You end up with the equivalent of Mandrake where you complied it yourself, not the binary distro. USE=every possible flag enabled emerge something and yum install something a nd pretty much equivalent in terms of end result. What I like about Gentoo is not being in dependency hell. Also, Mandrake has a init thing that drove me bonkers on most days. I do like the control that Gentoo gives but I'm not that much of a control freak. I wanted a distro that had a better package manager than Mandrake and no init thingy. Gentoo fit that requirement even back in 2003. So, yea you are right in a way but I'm just not into controlling every single aspect of this. That said, I'm going to try USE=-perl -python emerge -Nav world and see what pukes on my keyboard. Also, I think a lot of things required python and/or perl back when I added the flag. That just seems to have changed without me knowing about it. Just like the invalid USE flags that I got rid of. Things change. I try to keep up but I do have other things to deal with at times. My garden and this little 90 lb chick I met. I'm trying to fatten her up a bit. lol This is all that puked. root@fireball / # USE=-perl -python emerge -Nav world These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild R] dev-util/boost-build-1.46.1 USE=-examples -python* 41,017 kB [ebuild R] sys-apps/util-linux-2.19.1 USE=cramfs loop-aes ncurses nls unicode -crypt -old-linux -perl* (-selinux) -slang (-uclibc) 4,341 kB [ebuild R] media-libs/alsa-lib-1.0.24.1 USE=-alisp -debug -doc -python* -static-libs ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS=adpcm alaw asym copy dmix dshare dsnoop empty extplug file hooks iec958 ioplug ladspa lfloat linear meter mmap_emul mulaw multi null plug rate route share shm softvol 814 kB [ebuild R] media-libs/lcms-1.19 USE=jpeg tiff zlib -python* -static-libs 907 kB [ebuild R] dev-libs/libgamin-0.1.10-r2 USE=-debug -python* -static-libs 834 kB [ebuild R] sys-apps/file-5.07-r3 USE=zlib -python* -static-libs 584 kB [ebuild R] sys-libs/cracklib-2.8.16 USE=nls -python* 604 kB [ebuild R] dev-lang/yasm-1.1.0-r1 USE=nls -python* 1,377 kB [ebuild R] dev-libs/boost-1.46.1-r1 USE=eselect -debug -doc -icu -mpi -python* -static-libs -test -tools 0 kB [ebuild R ~] kde-base/kdegames-meta-4.7.1 USE=opengl (-aqua) -python* 0 kB [ebuild R] dev-libs/libxslt-1.1.26-r1 USE=-crypt -debug -python* 3,322 kB [ebuild R] net-libs/libproxy-0.4.6-r3 USE=kde -gnome -mono -networkmanager -perl* -python* -test 81 kB [ebuild R ~] kde-base/marble-4.7.1 USE=handbook kde plasma (-aqua) -debug -designer-plugin -gps (-kdeenablefinal) -python* -test 20,575 kB [ebuild R ~] kde-base/superkaramba-4.7.1 USE=(-aqua) -debug (-kdeenablefinal) -python* 3,711 kB [ebuild R #] net-print/cups-1.5.0-r2 USE=X dbus gnutls java jpeg pam png ssl threads tiff -acl -debug -kerberos -ldap -perl* -php -python* -samba -slp -static-libs -usb -xinetd LINGUAS=-da -de -es -eu -fi -fr -id -it -ja -ko
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 06:36:54 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 05:13:49 -0500 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: You often mention the attraction of Gentoo is you get only what you want. But, consider this; if you put flags routinely in make.conf you lose most of that benefit. You end up with the equivalent of Mandrake where you complied it yourself, not the binary distro. USE=every possible flag enabled emerge something and yum install something and pretty much equivalent in terms of end result. I'm actually very much in Dale's usage pattern here. If there's a feature I want, and it's a globally-valid USE flag (such as, say, ipv6), I put it in make.conf. If there's a feature I want, and it's package-specific, it goes in package.use. If there's a feature I want, it's a globally-valid USE flag, but I *don't* want it in a particular package (say, X in vim), the enabler goes in make.conf, the disabler goes in packages.use; for 90% of packages, I want that support. So that's not USE=every possible flag enable, that's USE=all the global flags I want enabled. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 08:50:41 -0500, Dale wrote: That said, I'm going to try USE=-perl -python emerge -Nav world and see what pukes on my keyboard. Also, I think a lot of things required python and/or perl back when I added the flag. If they require Perl or Python, you won't have the perl or python USE flag. That's for optional choices, which usually means building language bindings with these flags. -- Neil Bothwick Taglines are like cars - You get a good one, then someone nicks it. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?
On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 10:53:46 -0400 Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 06:36:54 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 05:13:49 -0500 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: You often mention the attraction of Gentoo is you get only what you want. But, consider this; if you put flags routinely in make.conf you lose most of that benefit. You end up with the equivalent of Mandrake where you complied it yourself, not the binary distro. USE=every possible flag enabled emerge something and yum install something and pretty much equivalent in terms of end result. I'm actually very much in Dale's usage pattern here. If there's a feature I want, and it's a globally-valid USE flag (such as, say, ipv6), I put it in make.conf. If there's a feature I want, and it's package-specific, it goes in package.use. If there's a feature I want, it's a globally-valid USE flag, but I *don't* want it in a particular package (say, X in vim), the enabler goes in make.conf, the disabler goes in packages.use; for 90% of packages, I want that support. So that's not USE=every possible flag enable, that's USE=all the global flags I want enabled. As with all things in life, USE flags require intelligence, common sense and familiarity to use to best advantage. Not all global USE flags are equal or used in the same way! USE=ipv6 is mostly global and single-meaning. ipv6 support means just that - ipv6 support. For a daemon, that would be listen on an ipv6 interface and talk it back. For config tools, it's set up interfaces and routes ipv6 style. It's hard to come up with a meaning for the flag that's outside that narrow range; it's equally hard to come up with a reason to use in package.use. Maybe disable it for a package that supports ipv6 but is known to be broken in it's support. USE=perl python is a very different kettle of fish. While also global (i.e. used in a similar way by more than x number of ebuilds), the meaning in use can differ wildly. It can mean to build support for extra tools written in perl|python, or build language bindings, or use language bindings and possibly many things. These flags can benefit from being used in package.use - whereas you probably want ipv6 support everywhere if used, perl|python isn't used the same way. Your post indicates you already know this :-) I mentioned it to Dale to illuminate that just because a flag is *defined* globally doesn't mean you have to *use* it globally. And the reverse is also true - overlays often have flags used in many ebuilds, always with the same meaning (e17 is like this), but are not global in use.desc. My own make.conf has many of these flags. Sometimes I wish Gentoo would express these distinctions. Then I think about what it would take to do that, and shelf the idea :-) -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 10:53:46 -0400 Michael Molmike...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 06:36:54 -0500 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 05:13:49 -0500 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.comwrote: You often mention the attraction of Gentoo is you get only what you want. But, consider this; if you put flags routinely in make.conf you lose most of that benefit. You end up with the equivalent of Mandrake where you complied it yourself, not the binary distro. USE=every possible flag enabled emerge something and yum install something and pretty much equivalent in terms of end result. I'm actually very much in Dale's usage pattern here. If there's a feature I want, and it's a globally-valid USE flag (such as, say, ipv6), I put it in make.conf. If there's a feature I want, and it's package-specific, it goes in package.use. If there's a feature I want, it's a globally-valid USE flag, but I *don't* want it in a particular package (say, X in vim), the enabler goes in make.conf, the disabler goes in packages.use; for 90% of packages, I want that support. So that's not USE=every possible flag enable, that's USE=all the global flags I want enabled. As with all things in life, USE flags require intelligence, common sense and familiarity to use to best advantage. Not all global USE flags are equal or used in the same way! USE=ipv6 is mostly global and single-meaning. ipv6 support means just that - ipv6 support. For a daemon, that would be listen on an ipv6 interface and talk it back. For config tools, it's set up interfaces and routes ipv6 style. It's hard to come up with a meaning for the flag that's outside that narrow range; it's equally hard to come up with a reason to use in package.use. Maybe disable it for a package that supports ipv6 but is known to be broken in it's support. USE=perl python is a very different kettle of fish. While also global (i.e. used in a similar way by more than x number of ebuilds), the meaning in use can differ wildly. It can mean to build support for extra tools written in perl|python, or build language bindings, or use language bindings and possibly many things. These flags can benefit from being used in package.use - whereas you probably want ipv6 support everywhere if used, perl|python isn't used the same way. Your post indicates you already know this :-) I mentioned it to Dale to illuminate that just because a flag is *defined* globally doesn't mean you have to *use* it globally. And the reverse is also true - overlays often have flags used in many ebuilds, always with the same meaning (e17 is like this), but are not global in use.desc. My own make.conf has many of these flags. Sometimes I wish Gentoo would express these distinctions. Then I think about what it would take to do that, and shelf the idea :-) -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com I saw your point. That's why I said I do make exceptions. For me, I do whatever is easier to keep up with. I actually went back and removed perl and python from make.conf so that it would basically go by the ebuild I guess. When I ran emerge -uvaDN world, it wanted to rebuild actually nothing. I guess I could do -perl and -python to force it to disable but that may cause some other issue that I'm not wanting to deal with. So, I ended up with perl and python removed from make.conf. When the changes you were talking about come along, I'll know it and can see what I need to do to get what I need. One thing I don't like about having all the separate file in package.* is trying to keep up with them. I have several files that are there that don't even have anything in them because either portages unmask feature or autounmask created them. I sort of wonder if it wouldn't be easier for me to go back to a single file. Then I can open it with kwrite and if the file has a lot in it, just use the find tool. I know, I'm sure there is some command that can do that but that's another story. Of course I also have several files that do have something in them. Thing is, if I suspect something is in a file and want to look, I have to open each file, look to see if it's there and if not, repeat with the next one until I find it. Sometimes that is like a needle in a haystack. One step forward, two steps back. :/ Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 14:26:27 -0500, Dale wrote: One thing I don't like about having all the separate file in package.* is trying to keep up with them. I have several files that are there that don't even have anything in them because either portages unmask feature or autounmask created them. I sort of wonder if it wouldn't be easier for me to go back to a single file. Then I can open it with kwrite and if the file has a lot in it, just use the find tool. I know, I'm sure there is some command that can do that but that's another story. Of course I also have several files that do have something in them. Thing is, if I suspect something is in a file and want to look, I have to open each file, look to see if it's there and if not, repeat with the next one until I find it. Sometimes that is like a needle in a haystack. Either give the files sensible names or use grep :) I name the file after the package that requires its settings, so if foo requires a USE flag on libbar, I put that in foo. That way, if I unmerge foo, I can delete the file and not leave cruft. -- Neil Bothwick If it ain't broke, break it and charge for repair. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?
Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 14:26:27 -0500, Dale wrote: One thing I don't like about having all the separate file in package.* is trying to keep up with them. I have several files that are there that don't even have anything in them because either portages unmask feature or autounmask created them. I sort of wonder if it wouldn't be easier for me to go back to a single file. Then I can open it with kwrite and if the file has a lot in it, just use the find tool. I know, I'm sure there is some command that can do that but that's another story. Of course I also have several files that do have something in them. Thing is, if I suspect something is in a file and want to look, I have to open each file, look to see if it's there and if not, repeat with the next one until I find it. Sometimes that is like a needle in a haystack. Either give the files sensible names or use grep :) I name the file after the package that requires its settings, so if foo requires a USE flag on libbar, I put that in foo. That way, if I unmerge foo, I can delete the file and not leave cruft. I generally use autounmask or portages unmask feature and it gives them names. Thing is, just because is it named something doesn't mean that is what is in it. I had a KDE unmask file that had things that were not KDE but was needed by KDE. It has all sorts of weird things in it. Maybe I need to study the find command or something. lol Then again, I'm confused enough already for today. :/ Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 14:51:56 -0500, Dale wrote: I generally use autounmask or portages unmask feature and it gives them names. Thing is, just because is it named something doesn't mean that is what is in it. I had a KDE unmask file that had things that were not KDE but was needed by KDE. It has all sorts of weird things in it. That makes sense. The USE flags are there because of KDE and if you ever go over to the other side you can get rid of them. Maybe I need to study the find command or something. lol Then again, I'm confused enough already for today. :/ You need grep, not find, if it's the content of the files that matters. -- Neil Bothwick A computer is like an Old Testament god, with a lot of rules and no mercy. \xA0-- Joseph Campbell signature.asc Description: PGP signature
