Re: [Gimp-developer] CVS HEAD dependency on glib-2.6 / gtk+-2.6
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ( Marc) (A.) (Lehmann ) writes: On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 09:56:07PM -0800, William Skaggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really find it bad that you think those people are ignorant - not everybody can (or even will) read the source to find hidden keyboard shortcuts. That is simply too much to ask from anybody. Your points are valid, but you have to realize that there is no such thing as a perfect ui solution in a program as complex as GIMP. If every interface element is always visible, the interface gets so complicated as to be unusable. But if elements are hidden, they are hard to use for that very reason. We can't win. Well, it should be clear that, except for small changes, the old file dialog worked better for the largest number of users. Also, the file save dialog in gimp-2.2 does have a path entry, so I don't think it's impossible to do it (that's just an example). Some problems might be caused by misdesigns in gtk+, but not all. Ah, So which problem you have with the file dialog is GIMP specific? Why don't you stop complaining here and talk to the GTK+ mailing list? There is absolutely nothing we can do about that. And no, we will certainly not hack around to make the GIMP's file dialogs look different from all other GTK+ apps' file dialogs. ciao, --mitch ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] CVS HEAD dependency on glib-2.6 / gtk+-2.6
Hi Marc, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( Marc) (A.) (Lehmann ) writes: I don't understand why they are ignorant - having to use undocumented functionality and keyboard shortcuts without visible representation anyhwere is a usability problem. It doesn't matter if you post information how to wrk around that on some mailnglist. Sorry, but the Image-Layer menu is visible and it is fully documented also. We can certainly improve the set of default keybindings and try to add some useful ones in the Layer menu. There's also still the great menu reorganisation project looking for volunteers... Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] CVS HEAD dependency on glib-2.6 / gtk+-2.6
On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 01:17:32AM +0100, Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Marc, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( Marc) (A.) (Lehmann ) writes: I don't understand why they are ignorant - having to use undocumented functionality and keyboard shortcuts without visible representation anyhwere is a usability problem. It doesn't matter if you post information how to wrk around that on some mailnglist. Sorry, but the Image-Layer menu is visible and it is fully documented also. Sorry, I was talking about the file dialog, which certainly has undocumented and invisilble keybindings, such as ctrl-l. We can certainly improve the set of default keybindings and try to add some useful ones in the Layer menu. There's also still the great menu reorganisation project looking for volunteers... Yeah, that's fine. I just couldn't understand why usability first has to be reduced and then maybe later improved, but if it's according to some master plan it might work even for me, later. -- The choice of a -==- _GNU_ ==-- _ generation Marc Lehmann ---==---(_)__ __ __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --==---/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / http://schmorp.de/ -=/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ XX11-RIPE ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] CVS HEAD dependency on glib-2.6 / gtk+-2.6
On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 07:35:11PM +0100, Michael Natterer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( Marc) (A.) (Lehmann ) writes: Some problems might be caused by misdesigns in gtk+, but not all. Ah, So which problem you have with the file dialog is GIMP specific? It takes a long time to open, for no reason. That is gimp-specific, other apps using the file dialog behave differently, as I explained. As I already wrote, the gtk+-specific bug has already been reported. I do think it's worthwhile if you read the beginning of this thread. Why don't you stop complaining here and talk to the GTK+ mailing list? I didn't know the gtk+ mailing list is responsible for gimp-specific behaviour. Other apps that use the gtk+ file dialog behave differently, as I explained. There is absolutely nothing we can do about that. That's fine with me then, really. Please note that i never asked you to do something for me. I did, however, describe usability problems with gimp. If you want to ignore these, that is your option (most probably because they are totally out of your control, as neither sven nor you ever shied away from more work to improve the gimp), but please don't claim they aren't there. And no, we will certainly not hack around to make the GIMP's file dialogs look different from all other GTK+ apps' file dialogs. On my system (debian), gimp's file dialogs already look very different to other gtk+2 apps. No hack is required, and I didn't ask for one, either. Now, why are you reacting so hostile? I just reported on some general deficiencies in gimp-2.x usability, of which the file dialog is the biggest one. If you (both sven and you) don't want to hear about that, just say so. I do, however, think it's a bad sign that users (I read a few cases on this mailinglist before) who report their problems with usability get treated like that. The very least you can do is acknowledge the problems people have, whatever causes it and wether and how it can and should be fixed is secondary. -- The choice of a -==- _GNU_ ==-- _ generation Marc Lehmann ---==---(_)__ __ __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --==---/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / http://schmorp.de/ -=/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ XX11-RIPE ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
