Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: the GIMP help system, i18n and other problems

2004-03-10 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi,

raymond ostertag <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> The third and good solution for me is to redefine the ID's in
> gimphelp-ids.h with the gimp-help team and avoid to do this like a
> mechanical stuff.

Sorry, but this is not an option. The help IDs are defined by the
application, not by the help authors. The help authors are free to map
several help IDs to the same page. Actually I don't see your problem
with the help IDs. To me they seem well choosen. They allow to provide
very fine-grained help but thanks to the mapping file (gimp-help.xml),
the help authors are not forced to provide help for each and every
help ID.

> I did'nt test anything until now but because some ID's are going very
> deap in our help files and I don't think that we can define the same ID
> in different place

Of course you can do that. What makes you think you couldn't?


Sven
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[Gimp-developer] Re: the GIMP help system, i18n and other problems

2004-03-10 Thread Daniel Egger
On Mar 10, 2004, at 8:41 pm, Sven Neumann wrote:



Okay, I have some idea how this all might work.

Regarding the "topic not found"-fallback: I think we should
simply add some hidden texts in every language which can be
mapped as fallback. Those are strictly required for every
language and should be part of the criteria for inclusion in
the official sources. We just need to negotiate the identifier
for the link. If the some link cannot be mapped an automatic
fallback to the fallback indentifier should happen. We can
semi-automatically ensure that the help module covers all
possible topics and print missing ones (in some languages)
by some tool which is written in almost no time.
Regarding the languages: Yes, let's do it as so say with the
names and canonicalize "C" to "en" or "en_EN" or "en_US" or
whatever and map it in the help.
Regarding the fallback: Your suggested fallback implementation
sounds good to me (stripping down the localename, that is). I,
however, would add a preference option whether to fall back to
English or rather display an error in mother tongue. As you said
a fallback to English might be a bigger problem than no help
at all in some countries and at least it's less confusing than
a mix of several languages.
Servus,
  Daniel


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[Gimp-developer] Re: the GIMP help system, i18n and other problems

2004-03-10 Thread raymond ostertag
Le mer 10/03/2004 à 20:08, Sven Neumann a écrit :

> In GIMP we added help IDs to all dialogs, all menu entries and some
> more GUI elements. They are all defined in app/widgets/gimphelp-ids.h,
> so here we have a complete list of all IDs.
...
> (1) What should happen when an ID cannot be mapped to an URL? At the
> moment we open a dialog to inform the user that the help-id is
> unknown. That's pretty confusing for the casual user and I think
> we can agree that this should not happen.
> 
> I can think of two solutions for this problem:
> 
> (a) Make sure that gimp-help-2 provides URLs for all IDs. Not
> necessarily unique URLs. All IDs for that no help exists could
> point to the same URL.
> 
> (b) Extend the gimp-help.xml format to allow to specify a fallback
> URL that should be used when no other mapping is given.
> 
> The second solution seems to make more sense since it's easy to
> miss an ID and we might want to add more IDs at any time.
> 
The third and good solution for me is to redefine the ID's in
gimphelp-ids.h with the gimp-help team and avoid to do this like a
mechanical stuff. I'll certainly vote for (a) after that.

I did'nt test anything until now but because some ID's are going very
deap in our help files and I don't think that we can define the same ID
in different place, then we propbaly  will face some problem when a ID
point just to a PARA/P or LISTITEM/LI that already exist in many
languages at different places in the same file.
And when it's just a LISTITEM/LI for me it's not interresting that the
Gimp-app point there because there is probably nothing interresting in
the doc.
Instead of adapting the gimp-help to a mechanical list , it's better to
rewrite the gimphelp-ids.h together, my opinion. Well I decided to stop
to write any content for the gimp-help, so may be my opinion don't count
anymore.


> (b) Try to get help from the 'C' branch of gimp-help-2. There
> might exist english help for this topic and we could show the
> user the english help page. In case there's also no english
> help, it would probably be best to do what I suggested in (a)
> and in case there's no fallback URL for the french version, as
> a last resort use the fallback URL for C.
> 
I don't think it's possible to have french/german/swedish content
without the english version. We decided to avoid this. You can go this
way who seems really nice to me. 

> I am undecided here. Since I speak english quite well, I would of
> course prefer to get english help if no german help is
> available. But what about the casual user? Should we present
> english help to her or would it be better to say, sorry, there's
> no help written in your language?
> 
Show english content.
The exception is the Glossary where each langage will have it's own
ID's. 

@+
Raymond

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