Re: [Gimp-developer] Fwd: [GUG] CMYK under Gimp.

2003-11-24 Thread Kai-Uwe Behrmann
... after the weekend
Am 21.11.03, 07:44 -0800 schrieb Daniel Rogers:

 | This would be fine for unix based systems too. Are there any plans to
 | create an system interface for X to plug-in an CMM?
 | Do You know someone allready working on this?

 yeah, I am working on this.  Hopefully, I will be going to talk to the
 X.org and freedesktop people in December.

Staying interessted.

 | Can You provide more informations about the current state of CMS in GEGL?

 Ok, so I avoided the question.  Do you want me to discuss technical
 details of how I think colormanagement will work in gegl?

Yes, I am interessted in how gegl handles color space conversions for
instance. The more interessting question is how it is planed to get an
interface for tools and plug-ins to handle the same command to all color
spaces. For instance brighten an image affects all channels in RGB in Lab
only the L (Lightness) channel.

By the way is gegl C++ and can it use templates to have only one function
for all color depths in common?   Sorry if I mix here something.

Maybe You like to continue the discussion in the gegl list, so I will
need to subscribe.

regards
Kai-Uwe

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Fwd: [GUG] CMYK under Gimp.

2003-11-24 Thread Kai-Uwe Behrmann
Am 21.11.03, 16:04 +0100 schrieb Sven Neumann:

  would help plug-ins to easily link against liblcms?

 I don't see how a configure check in GIMP would help plug-ins so the
 answer to the question doesn't really matter. I'll give it anway: I've
 added such a check a few minutes ago when the color proof display
 filter was added to CVS.

Great.
Thanks for this hint. I will see what I can do with it.

--
Kai-Uwe

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Fwd: [GUG] CMYK under Gimp.

2003-11-24 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi,

Kai-Uwe Behrmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

   would help plug-ins to easily link against liblcms?
 
  I don't see how a configure check in GIMP would help plug-ins so the
  answer to the question doesn't really matter. I'll give it anway: I've
  added such a check a few minutes ago when the color proof display
  filter was added to CVS.
 
 Great.
 Thanks for this hint. I will see what I can do with it.

Hmm? As I already outlined, the configure check in GIMP doesn't help
external plug-ins and modules. Also, GIMP does not depend on lcms now,
so I wonder what exactly you are trying to do with it ...?


Sven
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Fwd: [GUG] CMYK under Gimp. (fwd)

2003-11-24 Thread Kai-Uwe Behrmann
I resend this email, as it was lost by the lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
mailserver.

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 11:03:41 +0100 (CET)
From: Kai-Uwe Behrmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Fwd: [GUG] CMYK under Gimp.

Hi,

Am 21.11.03, 16:48 +0100 schrieb Sven Neumann:

 X11 has support for color management for a lng time already. What
 exactly is missing in your opinion?

That was my surprise and hope some time ago too. I looked in the man pages
and found only some rudimentary entries describing how to convert single
colour for the colour selction. I am not aware of any mechanism on how to
send Lab or Yuv or something else directly to X for displaying. And I did
not found any mechanism on telling X which is the correct monitor profile.
This I would call colour management.

regards
Kai-Uwe


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Fwd: [GUG] CMYK under Gimp.

2003-11-21 Thread Kai-Uwe Behrmann
Am 20.11.03, 21:10 -0800 schrieb Daniel Rogers:

 I am working on an api for this in GEGL.  It is probably best to use the
 system api's, when available, since there are already methods to plug
 lcms into the exisiting system api's (on windows and Mac OS X) as a CMM.

This would be fine for unix based systems too. Are there any plans to
create an system interface for X to plug-in an CMM?
Do You know someone allready working on this?

 ~ There will be an abstraction in GEGL for this.  Eventually, I am going
 to try an get it moved to the freedesktop.org people (and into gtk).
 But that is quite a long term goal.

Can You provide more informations about the current state of CMS in GEGL?

regards
Kai-Uwe

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Fwd: [GUG] CMYK under Gimp.

2003-11-21 Thread Daniel Rogers
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Kai-Uwe Behrmann wrote:
| Am 20.11.03, 21:10 -0800 schrieb Daniel Rogers:
|
|
|I am working on an api for this in GEGL.  It is probably best to use the
|system api's, when available, since there are already methods to plug
|lcms into the exisiting system api's (on windows and Mac OS X) as a CMM.
|
|
| This would be fine for unix based systems too. Are there any plans to
| create an system interface for X to plug-in an CMM?
| Do You know someone allready working on this?
yeah, I am working on this.  Hopefully, I will be going to talk to the
X.org and freedesktop people in December.
|
|~ There will be an abstraction in GEGL for this.  Eventually, I am going
|to try an get it moved to the freedesktop.org people (and into gtk).
|But that is quite a long term goal.
|
|
| Can You provide more informations about the current state of CMS in GEGL?
asking about the CMS in GEGL is really asking about the current state of
LCMS.  LCMS is a pretty darn complete color management system. And there
isn't a lot of solid information.  I know what I want to do, I just need
to do it.
Ok, so I avoided the question.  Do you want me to discuss technical
details of how I think colormanagement will work in gegl?
- --
Daniel
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Fwd: [GUG] CMYK under Gimp.

2003-11-21 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi,

Kai-Uwe Behrmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 This would be fine for unix based systems too. Are there any plans
 to create an system interface for X to plug-in an CMM?  Do You know
 someone allready working on this?

X11 has support for color management for a lng time already. What
exactly is missing in your opinion?


Sven
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Fwd: [GUG] CMYK under Gimp.

2003-11-21 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi,

Kai-Uwe Behrmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Have gimps configure an header check for lcms allready onboard? This
 would help plug-ins to easily link against liblcms?

I don't see how a configure check in GIMP would help plug-ins so the
answer to the question doesn't really matter. I'll give it anway: I've
added such a check a few minutes ago when the color proof display
filter was added to CVS.


Sven
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Fwd: [GUG] CMYK under Gimp.

2003-11-20 Thread Kai-Uwe Behrmann
Am 18.11.03, 22:49 +0100 schrieb Sven Neumann:

 correction filters. If these plug-ins and modules all use lcms and
 share ICC profiles by means of gimprc and parasites, you could use

Have gimps configure an header check for lcms allready onboard? This
would help plug-ins to easily link against liblcms?

Kai-Uwe

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Fwd: [GUG] CMYK under Gimp.

2003-11-20 Thread Daniel Rogers
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Kai-Uwe Behrmann wrote:
| Am 18.11.03, 22:49 +0100 schrieb Sven Neumann:
|
|
|correction filters. If these plug-ins and modules all use lcms and
|share ICC profiles by means of gimprc and parasites, you could use
|
|
| Have gimps configure an header check for lcms allready onboard? This
| would help plug-ins to easily link against liblcms?
I am working on an api for this in GEGL.  It is probably best to use the
system api's, when available, since there are already methods to plug
lcms into the exisiting system api's (on windows and Mac OS X) as a CMM.
~ There will be an abstraction in GEGL for this.  Eventually, I am going
to try an get it moved to the freedesktop.org people (and into gtk).
But that is quite a long term goal.
- --
Dan
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Fwd: [GUG] CMYK under Gimp.

2003-11-18 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi,

Joao S. O. Bueno [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  http://www.blackfiveservices.co.uk/separate.shtml

I am pointing people at this plug-in for quite a while already.

 I hacked together a plugin some time ago that uses the LCMS
 colour-management library to convert images from RGB to CMYK, using
 ICC profiles.
 
 Since the GIMP currently has no method of storing CMYK image data
 internally, I create a collection of layers, one for each channel,
 and use a custom save routine to create a CMYK TIFF from the layers.

I'd love to see the ability to convert to CMYK on save being added to
the standard tiff plug-in. A naive CMYK conversion function is now in
libgimpcolor but to make this really useful, the conversion should use
color profiles, so this should probably be done using lcms.

It should be goal for GIMP-2.2 to add a framework for handling color
profiles. Not only the TIFF plug-in would benefit from this. I know
that work is being done on a display filter for color proofing. For
this filter to be convenient and useful we will need a general way to
select color profiles and to attach them to images. And we will have
to improve the color display filter framework. This is working but
there's quite some room for improvement here.

At the moment our TIFF plug-in already reads ICC profiles and attaches
to the image using the icc-profile parasite (see
devel-docs/parasites.txt). If I remember correctly it also writes the
profile back to the TIFF file when saving. This parasite should be
used by other plug-ins as well.

The CMYK color selector we have is also a module and be exchanged by
an improved version that uses color profiles. So basically the
infrastructure is there that enables some basic CMYK support to be
added now without touching the GIMP core.

Someone or a group of people could try to come up with a CMYK
extension package for GIMP-2.0. I imagine this as a package that
contains a number of plug-ins replacing the standard file plug-ins for
CMYK-aware formats, a CMYK color selector module and a number of color
correction filters. If these plug-ins and modules all use lcms and
share ICC profiles by means of gimprc and parasites, you could use
GIMP to work on CMYK data even though it stores the data as RGB
internally. This is of course limited CMYK support only but it would
bring us a good way closer to it and I have been told that it should
be sufficient for a lot of tasks,

There are however one or two changes needed to the current module API.
Right now the modules have no way to access image parasites. Adding
this would probably be small hack only. If someone comes up with such
a patch quickly, perhaps we could even sneak it into 2.0 somehow.


Sven
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