Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP and Python
Am Donnerstag, 15. April 2010 11:33:42 schrieb Tor Lillqvist: > > It seems that you're talking Windows in this case. ;-) > > > > Frankly, it is a very bad thing when applications include a script > > language engine in their distribution that then is installed somewhere in > > a non- standard place on the platform. > > But what is the "standard" place for Python on Windows? And are you > sure that some version of OpenOffice.org for instance even would work > with whatever Python version the python.org people currently consider > "standard"? All Python distributions I know of handle the place where they are installed via the Windows registry, i.e. any application can test whether python is installed or not (and where) by simply querying the registry. Now, if Python comes bundled with an applicaton, this registration is not made (which is good in the first place, since it is not Python that gets installed but another application). For the time being I haven't had any problems with Gimp and Blender using a system-wide installation of Python and even upgrading Python without touching the applications worked flawlessly - but then it maybe just working for me... > On systems with package management and svendor package repositories > that *do* offer standard packages of everything imagineable in the > FLOSS worls, the situation is quite different of course. Windows has its dreaded registry which should be used for these purposes since the "standard" place for installing stuff can be chosen freely by the user. I admit that with some underlying libraries like Gtk+ there *can* be a problem when installing system-wide versions. However, when using the registry, it should be possible to even have several (and incompatible) versions of said libraries installed (since both, version information and path to the library can be registered). Anyway, if people decide to include Python in Gimp for Windows it is fine with me, but I would still think of it as an extremely suboptimal solution - not for the usability of Gimp, but more in view of securing and maintaining the system itself which already is a pain in places where it hurts most. Torsten signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP and Python
On Thursday, April 15, 2010, 2:26:42, Michael Hansen wrote: > And my second question: If this is really the case, will > establishing Python support be simplified in future (by embedding > native support for Python scripts)? GIMP 2.8 will optionally include Python and PyGTK+ on Windows. -- < Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ > Spend sufficient time in confirming the need and the need will disappear. -- Peter's Prognosis ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP and Python
> It seems that you're talking Windows in this case. ;-) > Frankly, it is a very bad thing when applications include a script language > engine in their distribution that then is installed somewhere in a non- > standard place on the platform. But what is the "standard" place for Python on Windows? And are you sure that some version of OpenOffice.org for instance even would work with whatever Python version the python.org people currently consider "standard"? On systems with package management and svendor package repositories that *do* offer standard packages of everything imagineable in the FLOSS worls, the situation is quite different of course. --tml ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP and Python
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Torsten Neuer wrote: > Am Donnerstag, 15. April 2010 02:26:42 schrieb Michael Hansen: >> And my second question: If this is really the case, will establishing >> Python support be simplified in future (by embedding native support for >> Python scripts)? OpenOffice or the newest version of Blender already come >> with all necessary files to use Python scripts for example, without the >> need to install all that stuff. > > It seems that you're talking Windows in this case. ;-) > > Frankly, it is a very bad thing when applications include a script language > engine in their distribution that then is installed somewhere in a non- > standard place on the platform. This is windows we are talking about here. Nothing that isn't provided by MS$ has a standard place in the OS. Its nature deems that for your things to work you need to provide all your own dependencies. And yes, that means potentially 6 copies of python, GTK or any other dependency. It is regrettable, but treating windows like a Unix system is just as wrong. Windows is not a version fixed and built as one environment. What works for one app does not have to work for another because they can have totally incompatible versions. There was a time when applications did not package their own GTK. It was a pain in the ass to figure out why gimp install broke pidgin. Yes, it bloats windows, but it ensures that apps run OK for those that lack the skills to resolve conflicts. -- --Alexia ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP and Python
Am Donnerstag, 15. April 2010 02:26:42 schrieb Michael Hansen: > I read this tutorial: > http://www.gimpusers.com/tutorials/install-python-for-gimp-2-6-windows.html > > "Today, most GIMP scripts/helpers/extensions are written using Python > instead of the outdated SCHEME (known as Script-Fu). This allows a lot of > great possibilities, but at the moment the installation of GIMP-Python for > Windows requires a few steps." > My first question is: Is it true, that Python scripts are the future, while > Script-Fu is outdated? Python has got several advantages over Script-Fu, but saying that Script-Fu is outdated does not mean that support for Script-Fu will vanish from one day to another. > And my second question: If this is really the case, will establishing > Python support be simplified in future (by embedding native support for > Python scripts)? OpenOffice or the newest version of Blender already come > with all necessary files to use Python scripts for example, without the > need to install all that stuff. It seems that you're talking Windows in this case. ;-) Frankly, it is a very bad thing when applications include a script language engine in their distribution that then is installed somewhere in a non- standard place on the platform. Why ? For several reasons: * there might be security issues with this engine - and you would then have to update several packages instead of just one * you fill up your hard drive with the same programs over and over * you cannot use the language as a general purpose script engine on the platform (or it is at least very hard to do so) when it is included in another programs distribution * ... (there is more, but these are the most important reasons not to include a language in a program distribution) So, if someone was to ask me, I would stringly discourage including python in the Gimp distribution for Windows. A better approach would be to check the dependency on that engine, see if it is installed and then (download and) install it automatically in a standard place if necessary. just my 2cc Torsten signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
