Re: [Gimp-developer] Suggestion: Make the 'New layer'commanddefaultto 'New lay
On Wed, 17 May 2006, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 16:52:08 +0400 > From: Alexandre Prokoudine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: GIMPDev > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Suggestion: Make the 'New > layer'commanddefaultto 'New lay > > On 5/17/06, Martin Nordholts wrote: > > I think like this: > > For maximum workflow, one should be able to do as many things simultaneously > > as possible, wouldn't you agree with that? > > What else can I do while creating a new layer except scratching my > poor head and holding a paper? :) > > Again, I would like consistent user interface. If GIMP uses > Shift+Click for using last settings and bypass an extra dialog in > several places, I want it to always work that way, throughout UI. It works for Layers, Channels, and Paths. Good consistency. Doesn't seem to work for the Templates dialog. Doesn't work for brushes or gradients but in that case it is more like Edit gradient than New gradient so it probably isn't applicable. Cannot think of other places to test. > If you point is in bypassing all "extra" dialogs by default, then it > is a subject to a usability study. I can't see how possibly we can I couldn't agree more with the point Simon made about discoverability and the workflow optimisation should take second place in this situation, especially since this was all based on trial and error and the developers came to this decision the hard way. > decide changing what many people already got used to without studying > user experience of at least part of them. It is a tough burden to require usability testing to prove every suggested change but in this there effectively has been a substantial body of testing already. -- Alan ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Suggestion: Make the 'New layer'commanddefaultto 'New lay
> Ah, it was the other way around before, I see. > > From previous discussions however, I concluded that GIMP is not inteded to > be an app for newbies, but rather be effective to its faithful users. I don't think that discoverability is about newbies vs. professionals. I am assuming you mean 'image editing newbies' and 'image editing professionals'. By 'newbie' I mean new to the GIMP interface. By 'faithful user', I meant someone that knows GIMP and what it is capable of. As I said, I have concluded, based on previous discussions, that GIMP is not aimed towards newbies. Thus, the 'indiscoverability for GIMP newbies'-argument falls. > >If you know about the Shift-Click it basically is not more or less > >convenient than a simple click on the button. Hence I don't see how > >switching this around again would drastically improve the workflow. > > Having to use two hands instead of one is a dramatic loss of workflow IMHO. Uh, please back that up. Refer to my reply to Alexandre: https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/lists/gimp-developer/2006-May/015751.html > If you would want _one_ new layer per image, than this doesn't matter. > However, for more serious work where creating many layers often, having to > use the left hand for shift is not effective I think. Why? Why it makes a difference if you have to use Shift many times? Well, let's say it takes 0.3 secs longer to Shift click than just to click, you save 0.3 secs for one click, but 30 seconds if you do 100 clicks. I probably misunderstood the 'why' though... _ Här väntar den rätta. http://www.msn.se/dejting/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Suggestion: Make the 'New layer'commanddefaultto 'New lay
On 5/17/06, Martin Nordholts wrote: I think like this: For maximum workflow, one should be able to do as many things simultaneously as possible, wouldn't you agree with that? What else can I do while creating a new layer except scratching my poor head and holding a paper? :) Again, I would like consistent user interface. If GIMP uses Shift+Click for using last settings and bypass an extra dialog in several places, I want it to always work that way, throughout UI. If you point is in bypassing all "extra" dialogs by default, then it is a subject to a usability study. I can't see how possibly we can decide changing what many people already got used to without studying user experience of at least part of them. Alexandre ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Suggestion: Make the 'New layer'commanddefaultto 'New lay
I think like this: For maximum workflow, one should be able to do as many things simultaneously as possible, wouldn't you agree with that? Then it follows that having to use two hands is less effective than using one hand. Exactly _what_ is being done by the other hand is not important, more important is that _it can do anything_ (Scratch yourself in the head, hold a paper, or just rest). From: "Alexandre Prokoudine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: GIMPDev Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Suggestion: Make the 'New layer'commanddefaultto 'New lay Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 16:32:05 +0400 On 5/17/06, Martin Nordholts wrote: Having to use two hands instead of one is a dramatic loss of workflow IMHO. What is the second hand doing then, if not being on keyboard? I'm really curious, because when I'm using GIMP/Inkscape/Scribus, my left hand is _always_ on keyboard, mostly in the Ctrl/Shift/Alt area (try drawing a vertical gradient at 90 deg without using Ctrl) or switching between tools. Alexandre ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer _ Galen i Messenger? Tävla här! http://yomessenger.msn.se/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Suggestion: Make the 'New layer'commanddefaultto 'New lay
On 5/17/06, Martin Nordholts wrote: (? my reply seems to have been lost, I will reply again) Well no, I have no statistics :) As I said though, we could gather some if needed. Maybe some admid could ask on the Users list if they find it appropriate. Probably yes, but from what I remember, Shift + Click works in several more parts of GIMP's UI. If so, changing it would break consistence. Alexandre ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Suggestion: Make the 'New layer'commanddefaultto 'New lay
(? my reply seems to have been lost, I will reply again) Well no, I have no statistics :) As I said though, we could gather some if needed. Maybe some admid could ask on the Users list if they find it appropriate. From: "Alexandre Prokoudine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: GIMPDev Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Suggestion: Make the 'New layer'commanddefaultto 'New lay Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 16:08:15 +0400 On 5/17/06, Martin Nordholts wrote: Which part of "improve workflow" in my e-mail was hard to understand? I mean you can't possibly mean that it is more effective to Shift-Click than to only Click? Do you have showable results of a usability study that clearly states that GIMP should always create new layer with previous settings? Is there any statistics that in most cases users don't change color of background (and other options) in a new layer? I just want to make sure that we are not talking about your personal preferences and your personal workflow ;-) Alexandre ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer _ Hitta bästa priserna & produkterna http://shopping.msn.se/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
