Re: [Gimp-web] Social media: consolidation of comments

[Pat David]

I took a quick stab this past weekend at trying something out.  It's not
perfect (more of a proof of concept), but it seems to work.  If someone
wants to try it out:

http://testing.gimp.org/about/meta/social/

A couple of notes:

1. In order to query the relevant API (twitter mostly), I had to use a
server as a back-end to bridge the query.  Because WGO is a static site, I
purposely tried to avoid any server/dynamic querying.  I actually had this
working with FB w/o needing a server through JSONP, but twitter hates us.
So I use an endpoint on pixls.us just to pass the JSONP data from the
server.

2. I queried two types of data from each service: a) posts made by the
official GIMP account and b) posts mentioning the GIMP account.

3. I _might_ be able to turn this into a single endpoint that generates an
rss/atom feed.  No promises, but if it's something that will truly be
helpful to folks I'll look into it.
-- 
pat david
https://pixls.us
http://blog.patdavid.net
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Re: [Gimp-web] Social media: consolidation of comments

[Sven Claussner]

Hi,

On  22.1.2016 at 2:05 PM Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:


On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:20 PM, Sven Claussner wrote:


Having to check and search many posts on FB, G+, Twitter,
mailing lists and forums is a tedious work which easily
gets neglected, especially when you as a coder just want
to code your idea that seems so wonderful. Thus many
chances are wasted.


???

People have different roles in this project. Programmers don't
habitually check social media for feedback, and schumaml, patdavid,
and me -- people who check social media and maintain accounts -- don't
write GIMP code.


I know. In general I think it leads to better accepted software
(not only GIMP) if developers know about the application domain and the
users' needs. Having the relevant information in one single place
lowers the barriers to get the right information.



It would be a great help if all this feedback was in one place
and we could search it by topic easily


Implementing this is _incredibly_ expensive in terms of both money and
human resources if you want it to be any useful any time soon.

See, I work for a company that provides a social media monitoring
service. Accumulating this kind of information means: [... a lot ...]


Thank you for clarifying this. Indeed I wasn't aware of that.


On  22.1.2016 at 4:00 PM Pat David wrote:

Everything Alex said, but I'll be slightly more optimistic (vs

realistic).

The idea that you're suggesting is a good one, but the use-case and
implementation is the tricky bit.


Thanks for your positive reply. My first post was just an idea that I
shared for public discussion (some name it 'brainstorm'. I should have
made this clearer).



1. A means for any member of the GIMP team to view a feed of interactions
with the GIMP accounts across various social media platforms?
 (This does _not_ necessarily mean _any_ arbitrary mention of

GIMP, just

the interactions directed towards the official accounts).
 That is, a view of mentions that are publicly visible and directed
towards the official account.


Indeed this was my first thought. I rethought it and would find it
useful to get the relevant information w/o noise, such as new found
bugs, feature requests and meaningful user feedback in one place.
Being able to search this would be a nice plus.
Monitoring everything with the tag #gimp would lead to too many false
positives.



A. Should this be a public/visible place for us to view the information?


It could and in an open source project that would be consistent.



B. How would you see yourself interacting with a list of information like
this?


Browsing the information and searching for keywords on demand.



C. Would a web page with a list of these interactions and links work?


For instance or an RSS feed. Sadly Yahoo pipes has gone and I don't
know for sure how its successors work.
As pointed out it's a piece of hard work with unknown results, thus a
small solution could be:
The social network people here just pick up relevant information and
post it at the ML's and then things go the usual ways (discussion on
the ML's, bug report, eventually fixing). The ML's themselves are
already archived and the archives are searchable.

Greetings

Sven









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Re: [Gimp-web] Social media: consolidation of comments

[Akkana Peck]

I wrote:
> > I'm not the original poster, but I'd love to be able to get, say,
> > the interesting news that shows up on the GIMP Google+ account

Pat David writes:
> Akk,
> 
> Do you mean the news that we ("GIMP") post to our own G+ account?

Yes, exactly. It's posted by official people, though often it's
pointers to interesting projects posts from other people. There's
almost always something interesting there when I remember to look at
it, but keeping up with a G+ feed (and remembering what I've seen
before vs. what's new) is a lot harder than reading an RSS or email
feed of "here's all the news since you last checked".

...Akkana
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Re: [Gimp-web] Social media: consolidation of comments

[Pat David]

Akk,

Do you mean the news that we ("GIMP") post to our own G+ account?

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 12:32 PM Akkana Peck  wrote:

> Pat David writes:
> > First, let me clarify so I understand what you may be proposing:
> >
> > 1. A means for any member of the GIMP team to view a feed of interactions
> > with the GIMP accounts across various social media platforms?
> > (This does _not_ necessarily mean _any_ arbitrary mention of GIMP,
> just
> > the interactions directed towards the official accounts).
> > That is, a view of mentions that are publicly visible and directed
> > towards the official account.
>
> I'm not the original poster, but I'd love to be able to get, say,
> the interesting news that shows up on the GIMP Google+ account
> without needing to remember to wade through the Google+ website
> all the time. For instance, as an RSS feed.
>
> > Let me hack at this and see what I can find. (This is _highly_
> experimental
> > and just a wild tangent that you've now got me on - so expect nothing to
> > come of this).
>
> Looks like there are several services to produce RSS from a G+ page,
> but I haven't looked into the Free-ness of any of them, or how
> likely they are to stay around.
>
> ...Akkana
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-- 
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https://pixls.us
http://blog.patdavid.net
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Re: [Gimp-web] Social media: consolidation of comments

[Alexandre Prokoudine]

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:20 PM, Sven Claussner wrote:

> Having to check and search many posts on FB, G+, Twitter,
> mailing lists and forums is a tedious work which easily
> gets neglected, especially when you as a coder just want
> to code your idea that seems so wonderful. Thus many
> chances are wasted.

???

People have different roles in this project. Programmers don't
habitually check social media for feedback, and schumaml, patdavid,
and me -- people who check social media and maintain accounts -- don't
write GIMP code.

> I thought about some possibilities:
> - Access Facebook, Twitter through their APIs.

Facebook doesn't have an API.

> - Forums: there are many GIMP forums around there in various languages
> and therefore I doubt setting up and maintaining yet another one would
> be a big benefit. But getting their latest news through RSS/Atom
> feeds could be a help.

I'll be blunt here. As someone who follows these forums I'm not sure
what kind of insights you expect, given how their use of GIMP differs
from what we design the software for (in 95% of cases or so).

> - Uservoice,

https://www.uservoice.com/plans/customer-support/

All these services are commercial for anything more than a casual
interest. They also require an employee with full-time occupation to
sit in front of the control panel and move feedback between feedback
platform and bugzilla. Moreover, they would change our relationship
into the customer-developer kind, while we are not actually getting
paid for working on GIMP.

Personally, as much as I want communication transparency,
user-friendliness, and professional-grade everything, I think we
should not forget that GIMP is a community project by volunteers. This
isn't a business.

> Flickr

You mean the GIMP users group?

> Instagram

Actionable feedback on Instagram? You must be joking :)

> Pinterest

Likewise

> Disqus

How is it related?

> blogs

That could bring something useful.

> and professional press reviews could be other ways of getting feedback.

Professional press reviews? Could you elaborate please?

> - There is a social monitoring meta search on the web:
> www.socialmention.com

Which is pretty much useless.

> It would be a great help if all this feedback was in one place
> and we could search it by topic easily

Implementing this is _incredibly_ expensive in terms of both money and
human resources if you want it to be any useful any time soon.

See, I work for a company that provides a social media monitoring
service. Accumulating this kind of information means:

- you pay for a server (or several servers) -- a lot;
- you pay for the traffic -- a lot;
- you need clever linguistic algorithms to sift through the data and
categorize it;
- you need clever algorithms that will detect spam in social media
posts and remove those;
- you need to design a query language, with negative words etc., to
build sensible queries;
- you need someone who maintains all this;
- etc. etc. etc.

Would it be useful for the team? I guess so. Is it realistic? Probably not.

Alex
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Re: [Gimp-web] Social media: consolidation of comments

[Pat David]

Everything Alex said, but I'll be slightly more optimistic (vs realistic).

The idea that you're suggesting is a good one, but the use-case and
implementation is the tricky bit.

First, let me clarify so I understand what you may be proposing:

1. A means for any member of the GIMP team to view a feed of interactions
with the GIMP accounts across various social media platforms?
(This does _not_ necessarily mean _any_ arbitrary mention of GIMP, just
the interactions directed towards the official accounts).
That is, a view of mentions that are publicly visible and directed
towards the official account.

If that is the thought, there are some questions I have.

A. Should this be a public/visible place for us to view the information?
B. How would you see yourself interacting with a list of information like
this?
C. Would a web page with a list of these interactions and links work?

Simply producing a list of interaction with the official account might be
possible, but that is likely to be the extent of the interaction possible.
You'd still have to have an account and go to the social network to
continue those interactions.

Let me hack at this and see what I can find. (This is _highly_ experimental
and just a wild tangent that you've now got me on - so expect nothing to
come of this).

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 7:06 AM Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:20 PM, Sven Claussner wrote:
>
> > Having to check and search many posts on FB, G+, Twitter,
> > mailing lists and forums is a tedious work which easily
> > gets neglected, especially when you as a coder just want
> > to code your idea that seems so wonderful. Thus many
> > chances are wasted.
>
> ???
>
> People have different roles in this project. Programmers don't
> habitually check social media for feedback, and schumaml, patdavid,
> and me -- people who check social media and maintain accounts -- don't
> write GIMP code.
>
> > I thought about some possibilities:
> > - Access Facebook, Twitter through their APIs.
>
> Facebook doesn't have an API.
>
> > - Forums: there are many GIMP forums around there in various languages
> > and therefore I doubt setting up and maintaining yet another one would
> > be a big benefit. But getting their latest news through RSS/Atom
> > feeds could be a help.
>
> I'll be blunt here. As someone who follows these forums I'm not sure
> what kind of insights you expect, given how their use of GIMP differs
> from what we design the software for (in 95% of cases or so).
>
> > - Uservoice,
>
> https://www.uservoice.com/plans/customer-support/
>
> All these services are commercial for anything more than a casual
> interest. They also require an employee with full-time occupation to
> sit in front of the control panel and move feedback between feedback
> platform and bugzilla. Moreover, they would change our relationship
> into the customer-developer kind, while we are not actually getting
> paid for working on GIMP.
>
> Personally, as much as I want communication transparency,
> user-friendliness, and professional-grade everything, I think we
> should not forget that GIMP is a community project by volunteers. This
> isn't a business.
>
> > Flickr
>
> You mean the GIMP users group?
>
> > Instagram
>
> Actionable feedback on Instagram? You must be joking :)
>
> > Pinterest
>
> Likewise
>
> > Disqus
>
> How is it related?
>
> > blogs
>
> That could bring something useful.
>
> > and professional press reviews could be other ways of getting feedback.
>
> Professional press reviews? Could you elaborate please?
>
> > - There is a social monitoring meta search on the web:
> > www.socialmention.com
>
> Which is pretty much useless.
>
> > It would be a great help if all this feedback was in one place
> > and we could search it by topic easily
>
> Implementing this is _incredibly_ expensive in terms of both money and
> human resources if you want it to be any useful any time soon.
>
> See, I work for a company that provides a social media monitoring
> service. Accumulating this kind of information means:
>
> - you pay for a server (or several servers) -- a lot;
> - you pay for the traffic -- a lot;
> - you need clever linguistic algorithms to sift through the data and
> categorize it;
> - you need clever algorithms that will detect spam in social media
> posts and remove those;
> - you need to design a query language, with negative words etc., to
> build sensible queries;
> - you need someone who maintains all this;
> - etc. etc. etc.
>
> Would it be useful for the team? I guess so. Is it realistic? Probably not.
>
> Alex
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http://blog.patdavid.net
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Re: [Gimp-web] Social media: consolidation of comments

[Andrew Toskin]

 

For consolidating discussions: on Twitter I don't think it's too hard to
follow posts that tag #gimp or refer to the @gimp account. On Facebook,
people could comment on the GIMP page's "wall." If what you really want
is for people to be able to talk together in a single place, then
probably a forum would be better. 

Discourse may or may not have been the appropriate choice for a plugin
registry type site, I dunno. But it makes for an *excellent* forum. 

Note: There actually already is an unofficial GIMP forum
. It's just a little slow, and the web design
isn't nearly as beautiful and feature-rich as a Discourse site would
be... I've only given it a cursory look, but Discourse has tools for
importing existing forums, so we might possibly conserve some effort if
we wanted to see if the people at gimpforums.com were receptive to
switching to a more lovely and more advanced forum application... Or,
y'know, just leave the forum as it is, and link to their site from
gimp.org. 

Starting a new forum, or linking to (and revitalizing) the existing
unofficial forum, could possibly reinvigorate the community discussion,
though. 

~Andrew / terrycloth 

On 2016-01-21 06:51, Pat David wrote: 

> Not sure how to consolidate things. None of these services is exactly open
> to aggregating their content in a single place (and it's not in their best
> interest to do so).
> 
> With that being said, I suppose there's always the possibility of setting
> up a central place for users to congregate. A forum perhaps? (I've had
> good results with discourse for pixls.us so far). Though I feel like this
> might require an inordinately large amount of time policing and we may not
> have the interest/manpower available to handle it. :( (Not just spam -
> that's already reasonably well handled by default).
> 
> Actually, this was also part of an idea I had for transitioning the plugin
> registry to something else as well. I had put this on hold but can
> certainly re-visit the idea...
> 
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:18 AM Alexandre Prokoudine <
> alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sven Claussner wrote: Now that we are also on Facebook and Twitter I find a 
> bit inconvenient to check each single social media site for discussions and 
> comments on posts from our eager public relations people. Would it be 
> possible that they are consolidated in a single place? How do you expect this 
> to work? Alex ___ gimp-web-list 
> mailing list gimp-web-list@gnome.org 
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Links:
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