Re: Message from 'git-rebase'; German translation
Sascha Cunz venit, vidit, dixit 22.09.2012 23:57: As I know how hard translations can be, esp. with that much technical terms inside, I'm usually expecting _not_ to yield the same result when translating a software's translation back to English. However, git-rebase just threw these two sentences at me (And though i know their meaning, i couldn't get the meaning from the message, it gave). Both are in context of starting a rebase while one is already in progress. first is: Original: ... and I wonder if you are in the middle of another rebase. German git translation: ... und es wäre verwunderlich, wenn ein Neuaufbau bereits im Gange ist. And a re-translation back to English from my understanding as native German speaker: ... and it would be astonishing (=i'd be surprised), if a rebase was already in progress. And second: Original: I am stopping in case you still have something valuable there. German git translation: Es wird angehalten, falls bereits etwas Nützliches vorhanden ist. I wanted to point out that etwas Nützliches is more something useful that something valuable. But the more I thought about it, the more it started to confuse me (even the original text) - and now I feel like I don't understand the meaning of the last sentence at all; neither in English nor in the German translation: After removing the directory with all rebase-information inside it, WHERE should something valuable still be left over? Is it referring to my working tree? So, for completeness, the full English message: It seems that there is already a rebase-merge directory, and I wonder if you are in the middle of another rebase. If that is the case, please try git rebase (--continue | --abort | --skip) If that is not the case, please rm -fr /work/lg2/src/.git/rebase-merge and run me again. I am stopping in case you still have something valuable there. Sascha Both translations are completely wrong on two accounts: They are a wrong translation of the English original into German (making typical mistakes like false friends [wonder != wundern] etc.), and they convey a completely wrong idea about what git is doing and about to do (by translating a message without knowing when and why it is given). Unfortunately, neither comes to me as a surprise. I'm sorry I'm too frustrated by the German l10n community to try to help again (and the ensuing thread just reinforces that feeling), but to end on a positive note let me just point out: 'in case ...' = 'für den Fall dass ...' (attributiv) 'in the case ...' = 'im Fall dass ...' (konditional) Michael -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Message from 'git-rebase'; German translation
Ralf Thielow ralf.thie...@gmail.com writes: On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:57 PM, Sascha Cunz sascha...@babbelbox.org wrote: Original: ... and I wonder if you are in the middle of another rebase. German git translation: ... und es wäre verwunderlich, wenn ein Neuaufbau bereits im Gange ist. And a re-translation back to English from my understanding as native German speaker: ... and it would be astonishing (=i'd be surprised), if a rebase was already in progress. Perhaps the English wording should be made more clear; the fact that translation is difficult is a clue that it may be hard to understand, particularly for non-native-English-Speakers (albeit an ambiguous one; I realize translation is hard). We try to avoid translating terms like I wonder if.. and similar as ich wundere mich, because it's very unusual in German messages of computer programs. Translators should have the freedom to reword It's unusual in English too :-) pgpyhJYu3up07.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Message from 'git-rebase'; German translation
Ralf Thielow schrieb: We try to avoid translating terms like I wonder if.. and similar as ich wundere mich, I wonder if ... is not ich wundere mich (that's a false friend), but Ich frage mich ... and I wonder if you are in the middle of another rebase does not mean ... und es wäre verwunderlich, wenn ein Neuaufbau bereits im Gange ist, but offenbar / möglicherweise / vermutlich ist ein Neuaufbau bereits im Gange or something like that. Exactly the opposite of the translation, that is. -thh -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Message from 'git-rebase'; German translation
On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:57 PM, Sascha Cunz sascha...@babbelbox.org wrote: As I know how hard translations can be, esp. with that much technical terms inside, I'm usually expecting _not_ to yield the same result when translating a software's translation back to English. Yeah, I think the goal is not making translations which are looking nearly the same when somebody translates them back to English in the first place. However, git-rebase just threw these two sentences at me (And though i know their meaning, i couldn't get the meaning from the message, it gave). Both are in context of starting a rebase while one is already in progress. first is: Original: ... and I wonder if you are in the middle of another rebase. German git translation: ... und es wäre verwunderlich, wenn ein Neuaufbau bereits im Gange ist. And a re-translation back to English from my understanding as native German speaker: ... and it would be astonishing (=i'd be surprised), if a rebase was already in progress. We try to avoid translating terms like I wonder if.. and similar as ich wundere mich, because it's very unusual in German messages of computer programs. Translators should have the freedom to reword terms a bit to make a more optimal translation, but the meaning must not be lost, and I can't say that this is the case. Translate the term in the middle of word-by-word would result in in der Mitte eines, which can be interpreted as a place somewhere or that an action is in progress. To avoid a possible confusion, we decided to translate this term as im Gange sein (be in progress) in the whole translation. I also think that in der Mitte einer Zusammenführung sein doesn't sound really good. It tends to mean a place, not an action. And second: Original: I am stopping in case you still have something valuable there. German git translation: Es wird angehalten, falls bereits etwas Nützliches vorhanden ist. I wanted to point out that etwas Nützliches is more something useful that something valuable. But the more I thought about it, the more it started to I've been thinking about possible different translations, and the only one I have in mind is wertvoll. But translating valuable as wertvoll (bereits etwas Wertvolles vorhanden) sounds a bit like we've found a treasure, instead of something which has a value in the meaning of content. I think having a translation which is more like useful than valuable does also hit the point of the message, doesn't it? confuse me (even the original text) - and now I feel like I don't understand the meaning of the last sentence at all; neither in English nor in the German translation: After removing the directory with all rebase-information inside it, WHERE should something valuable still be left over? Is it referring to my working tree? Yeah, I think it means the working tree and/or the index which would make sense. Ralf -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Message from 'git-rebase'; German translation
Sharing my thoughts on this one, … On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Ralf Thielow ralf.thie...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:57 PM, Sascha Cunz sascha...@babbelbox.org wrote: However, git-rebase just threw these two sentences at me (And though i know their meaning, i couldn't get the meaning from the message, it gave). Both are in context of starting a rebase while one is already in progress. first is: Original: ... and I wonder if you are in the middle of another rebase. German git translation: ... und es wäre verwunderlich, wenn ein Neuaufbau bereits im Gange ist. And a re-translation back to English from my understanding as native German speaker: ... and it would be astonishing (=i'd be surprised), if a rebase was already in progress. We try to avoid translating terms like I wonder if.. and similar as ich wundere mich, because it's very unusual in German messages of computer programs. Translators should have the freedom to reword terms a bit to make a more optimal translation, but the meaning must not be lost, and I can't say that this is the case. Translate the term in the middle of word-by-word would result in in der Mitte eines, which can be interpreted as a place somewhere or that an action is in progress. To avoid a possible confusion, we decided to translate this term as im Gange sein (be in progress) in the whole translation. I also think that in der Mitte einer Zusammenführung sein doesn't sound really good. It tends to mean a place, not an action. What about a simple Eventuell wird bereits ein andere Neuaufbau/rebase ausgeführt? And, iirc, I wonder if translates to Ich frage mich, ob … And second: Original: I am stopping in case you still have something valuable there. German git translation: Es wird angehalten, falls bereits etwas Nützliches vorhanden ist. I wanted to point out that etwas Nützliches is more something useful that something valuable. But the more I thought about it, the more it started to I've been thinking about possible different translations, and the only one I have in mind is wertvoll. But translating valuable as wertvoll (bereits etwas Wertvolles vorhanden) sounds a bit like we've found a treasure, instead of something which has a value in the meaning of content. I think having a translation which is more like useful than valuable does also hit the point of the message, doesn't it? What about wichtig? I think that transfers the meaning pretty well. Es wird angehalten, um den Verlust wichtiger Infos zu vermeiden maybe? I hope the above spends some inspiration :) Cheers, Daniel -- typed with http://neo-layout.org -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Message from 'git-rebase'; German translation
Am Sonntag, 23. September 2012, 17:04:15 schrieb Ralf Thielow: On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:57 PM, Sascha Cunz sascha...@babbelbox.org wrote: As I know how hard translations can be, esp. with that much technical terms inside, I'm usually expecting _not_ to yield the same result when translating a software's translation back to English. Yeah, I think the goal is not making translations which are looking nearly the same when somebody translates them back to English in the first place. Exactly. The meaning is more important then the exact wording. Please consider this: Es wurden Neuaufbau- / Zusammenführungs-Informationen gefunden. Falls ein Neuaufbau bereits im Gange ist, versuche bitte: git rebase (--continue | --abort | --skip) Sollte dies nicht der Fall sein, können die Informationen durch rm -fr $(GIT_DIR)/rebase-merge entfernt werden. Es wird angehalten, falls etwas Schützenswertes gefunden werden sollte. It sounds way cleaner (to me at least) and transports all of the meaning. Esp. for the last sentence, it's very hard to find something in German that doesn't sound 'destructive'. Btw: In the past I've seen quite a few topics on translation on this list - is this at all the right place for that kind of discussion? Sascha However, git-rebase just threw these two sentences at me (And though i know their meaning, i couldn't get the meaning from the message, it gave). Both are in context of starting a rebase while one is already in progress. first is: Original: ... and I wonder if you are in the middle of another rebase. German git translation: ... und es wäre verwunderlich, wenn ein Neuaufbau bereits im Gange ist. And a re-translation back to English from my understanding as native German speaker: ... and it would be astonishing (=i'd be surprised), if a rebase was already in progress. We try to avoid translating terms like I wonder if.. and similar as ich wundere mich, because it's very unusual in German messages of computer programs. Translators should have the freedom to reword terms a bit to make a more optimal translation, but the meaning must not be lost, and I can't say that this is the case. Translate the term in the middle of word-by-word would result in in der Mitte eines, which can be interpreted as a place somewhere or that an action is in progress. To avoid a possible confusion, we decided to translate this term as im Gange sein (be in progress) in the whole translation. I also think that in der Mitte einer Zusammenführung sein doesn't sound really good. It tends to mean a place, not an action. And second: Original: I am stopping in case you still have something valuable there. German git translation: Es wird angehalten, falls bereits etwas Nützliches vorhanden ist. I wanted to point out that etwas Nützliches is more something useful that something valuable. But the more I thought about it, the more it started to I've been thinking about possible different translations, and the only one I have in mind is wertvoll. But translating valuable as wertvoll (bereits etwas Wertvolles vorhanden) sounds a bit like we've found a treasure, instead of something which has a value in the meaning of content. I think having a translation which is more like useful than valuable does also hit the point of the message, doesn't it? confuse me (even the original text) - and now I feel like I don't understand the meaning of the last sentence at all; neither in English nor in the German translation: After removing the directory with all rebase-information inside it, WHERE should something valuable still be left over? Is it referring to my working tree? Yeah, I think it means the working tree and/or the index which would make sense. Ralf -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Message from 'git-rebase'; German translation
Am Sonntag, 23. September 2012, 17:36:08 schrieb knittl: Sharing my thoughts on this one, … [...] What about wichtig? I think that transfers the meaning pretty well. Es wird angehalten, um den Verlust wichtiger Infos zu vermeiden maybe? I hope the above spends some inspiration :) Thanks, Daniel, _this_ translation now let me even understand the English wording: I somehow added an implicit second again in that line, thinking this information is associated with the words and run me again. But what it actually wants to say, is probably: I won't remove the rebase- merge directory on your behalf, because you might have something valuable left over _from a previous rebase / merge run_ Sascha -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Message from 'git-rebase'; German translation
On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 5:41 PM, Sascha Cunz sascha...@babbelbox.org wrote: Exactly. The meaning is more important then the exact wording. Please consider this: Es wurden Neuaufbau- / Zusammenführungs-Informationen gefunden. We can't change the ... Verzeichnis *rebase-merge* ... part of the message, because rebase-merge is a substitution and we have to use all of them. Falls ein Neuaufbau bereits im Gange ist, versuche bitte: git rebase (--continue | --abort | --skip) Sollte dies nicht der Fall sein, können die Informationen durch rm -fr $(GIT_DIR)/rebase-merge entfernt werden. Es wird angehalten, falls etwas Schützenswertes gefunden werden sollte. It sounds way cleaner (to me at least) and transports all of the meaning. Esp. for the last sentence, it's very hard to find something in German that doesn't sound 'destructive'. Not sure why you change vorhanden ist to gefunden werden sollte. Maybe we should use a combination? See below. Btw: In the past I've seen quite a few topics on translation on this list - is this at all the right place for that kind of discussion? Different translation teams use different places for discussions. The German uses this list. Like this, maybe. [PATCH] l10n: de.po: improve translation of a rebase message The word still was translated as bereits, change it to noch. valuable was translated as nützlich which is more like useful than valuable, change it to schützenswert. Noticed-by: Sascha Cunz sascha...@babbelbox.org Signed-off-by: Ralf Thielow ralf.thie...@gmail.com diff --git a/po/de.po b/po/de.po index 2739bc0..7fc0185 100644 --- a/po/de.po +++ b/po/de.po @@ -5756,8 +5756,8 @@ msgstr \t$cmd_live_rebase\n Wenn das nicht der Fall ist, probiere bitte\n \t$cmd_clear_stale_rebase\n -und führe dieses Kommando nochmal aus. Es wird angehalten, falls bereits\n -etwas Nützliches vorhanden ist. +und führe dieses Kommando nochmal aus. Es wird angehalten, falls noch\n +etwas Schützenswertes vorhanden ist. #: git-rebase.sh:395 #, sh-format -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: Message from 'git-rebase'; German translation
Am Sonntag, 23. September 2012, 19:34:23 schrieb Ralf Thielow: On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 5:41 PM, Sascha Cunz sascha...@babbelbox.org wrote: Exactly. The meaning is more important then the exact wording. Please consider this: Es wurden Neuaufbau- / Zusammenführungs-Informationen gefunden. We can't change the ... Verzeichnis *rebase-merge* ... part of the message, because rebase-merge is a substitution and we have to use all of them. Falls ein Neuaufbau bereits im Gange ist, versuche bitte: git rebase (--continue | --abort | --skip) Sollte dies nicht der Fall sein, können die Informationen durch rm -fr $(GIT_DIR)/rebase-merge entfernt werden. Es wird angehalten, falls etwas Schützenswertes gefunden werden sollte. It sounds way cleaner (to me at least) and transports all of the meaning. Esp. for the last sentence, it's very hard to find something in German that doesn't sound 'destructive'. Not sure why you change vorhanden ist to gefunden werden sollte. Maybe we should use a combination? See below. Probably a result of my initial misunderstanding of the original text. As I pointed out in another mail on this thread, I think the real meaning is: Es wird [jetzt] angehalten, _weil_ dort [im Rebase-Merge Verzeichnis] noch etwas Schützenswertes vorhanden sein könnte. Btw: In the past I've seen quite a few topics on translation on this list - is this at all the right place for that kind of discussion? Different translation teams use different places for discussions. The German uses this list. Like this, maybe. Yes, that is already much better. [PATCH] l10n: de.po: improve translation of a rebase message The word still was translated as bereits, change it to noch. valuable was translated as nützlich which is more like useful than valuable, change it to schützenswert. Noticed-by: Sascha Cunz sascha...@babbelbox.org Signed-off-by: Ralf Thielow ralf.thie...@gmail.com diff --git a/po/de.po b/po/de.po index 2739bc0..7fc0185 100644 --- a/po/de.po +++ b/po/de.po @@ -5756,8 +5756,8 @@ msgstr \t$cmd_live_rebase\n Wenn das nicht der Fall ist, probiere bitte\n \t$cmd_clear_stale_rebase\n -und führe dieses Kommando nochmal aus. Es wird angehalten, falls bereits\n -etwas Nützliches vorhanden ist. +und führe dieses Kommando nochmal aus. Es wird angehalten, falls noch\n +etwas Schützenswertes vorhanden ist. #: git-rebase.sh:395 #, sh-format -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Message from 'git-rebase'; German translation
As I know how hard translations can be, esp. with that much technical terms inside, I'm usually expecting _not_ to yield the same result when translating a software's translation back to English. However, git-rebase just threw these two sentences at me (And though i know their meaning, i couldn't get the meaning from the message, it gave). Both are in context of starting a rebase while one is already in progress. first is: Original: ... and I wonder if you are in the middle of another rebase. German git translation: ... und es wäre verwunderlich, wenn ein Neuaufbau bereits im Gange ist. And a re-translation back to English from my understanding as native German speaker: ... and it would be astonishing (=i'd be surprised), if a rebase was already in progress. And second: Original: I am stopping in case you still have something valuable there. German git translation: Es wird angehalten, falls bereits etwas Nützliches vorhanden ist. I wanted to point out that etwas Nützliches is more something useful that something valuable. But the more I thought about it, the more it started to confuse me (even the original text) - and now I feel like I don't understand the meaning of the last sentence at all; neither in English nor in the German translation: After removing the directory with all rebase-information inside it, WHERE should something valuable still be left over? Is it referring to my working tree? So, for completeness, the full English message: It seems that there is already a rebase-merge directory, and I wonder if you are in the middle of another rebase. If that is the case, please try git rebase (--continue | --abort | --skip) If that is not the case, please rm -fr /work/lg2/src/.git/rebase-merge and run me again. I am stopping in case you still have something valuable there. Sascha -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
