On Tuesday, August 20, 2002, at 08:28 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> All three mean the same thing, but the first is by far the most
> common in
> American English. Perl is a lot like English.
I couldn't agree more. Here's why:
English is supposedly the hardest language in the world to l
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At some point hitherto, [EMAIL PROTECTED] hath spake thusly:
> Yet you complain about Perl being hard to learn and use, for the same
> reasons, and not just for you, but for everyone?
I absolutely said no such thing.
Let's make this even simpler
On Mon, Aug 19, 2002 at 03:46:40PM -0400, Michael O'Donnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Given a list of pathnames, I'd like to be able to
> sort that list by the basename of each file in the
> list, ie. the pathname
>
>q/r/s/t/u/v/aaa
>
> ...would sort ahead of
>
>//bbb
>
This is a test message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] My previous messages to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] are timing out from the Postfix program
zcamail03.zca.compaq.com, and I don't know why.
--
Bob Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-
"I think there
Didn't you work with Grace Hopper :-)
"Hewitt Tech" wrote:
> You had "C"? All we had was assembler! You had assembler? All we had was
> ones and zeros! You had ones and zeros? ...
--
--
Gerald Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Boston Computer Solutions and Consulting
ICQ#156300 PGP Key ID:C5061EA9
PGP
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, at 9:54am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Is Python also a "text-munging" type language aimed at sysadmin type
> problems? Was it too, specifically designed to pick up where awk and sed
> fell short?
I know nothing about the Python language, but I do know a tiny bit about
the
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, at 12:30pm, Erik Price wrote:
> For that matter, I find that the word "cannonical" is bandied about in
> Perl culture far more than anywhere else! ;) Interesting for a language
> in which there's more than one way to do things.
I suspect that is why. If there are many wa
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, at 12:37pm, Derek D. Martin wrote:
[ Several paragraphs of completely irrelevant and bogus argument deleted.
I will provide explicit debunking of said argument if so requested. ]
> There are very few Unix commands whose names are completely
> unintelligible, and learning
You had "C"? All we had was assembler! You had assembler? All we had was
ones and zeros! You had ones and zeros? ...
-Alex
- Original Message -
From: "Jerry Feldman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: UNIX Arcana [was Re: Perl
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, at 2:00pm, Erik Price wrote:
>
>
> #!/usr/bin/python
Heh. This is pretty ironic. One of the standard Luddite responses to
Python is that whitespace is syntactically significant. Personally, I find
it a bit weird, but I'm not used to it, and it certainly isn't a
show-st
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Jerry Feldman wrote:
=>I think you are correct. Create(2) is a system call. Linkage editors those
=>days were rather primitive. I think the name limit was either 7 or 8, but
=>external names in C were many times autoprefixed with __, such that creat
=>became __creat.
=>The
I think you are correct. Create(2) is a system call. Linkage editors those
days were rather primitive. I think the name limit was either 7 or 8, but
external names in C were many times autoprefixed with __, such that creat
became __creat.
The C language had a limit of 8 characters for a variabl
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
=>
=>In a message dated: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 15:16:58 CDT
=>Thomas Charron said:
=>
=>For example, in shell, the construct:
=>
=> cd /tmp && rm foo
Whotchoo talkin 'bout Willis?
cd == chdir is a builtin command. But point taken.
=>
=>creates 2 sub
The 14 character limit did exist in Unix versions 6 and 7. Version 6 was
used as a basis for the BSD releases. Version 7 was the basis for what
became System 3 followed by System V. Long file names I think came out for
the first time in BSD 4.3 (or possibly 4.2).
Unlike MS DOS, which had a lim
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, at 4:14pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> I think he is thinking of the five-character limit in the original
>> linker(s) used to develop Unix (which very well may have come from
>> Multics). That five-character limit gave us the infamous creat(2) system
>> call.
>
> H, I d
In a message dated: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 15:16:58 CDT
Thomas Charron said:
>> I do occasionally use Perl, but I find that it's usually when I want
>> to do a lot of regexp work, or shell-script-like work, but don't want
>> to take the performance hit of using a shell script. Otherwise, bash
>> or C
On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 03:32:17PM -0400, Jeff Macdonald
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.habeas.com/faq/index.htm
(We'll see if this post gets through; I'm 1 for 3 so far)
Apparently a lot of people saw the Slashdot story and started coding
their own Bayesian spam filters. There have b
Quoting "Derek D. Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Which is specifically why I made that point immediately after what you
> quoted. Now you're just trolling... And my argument all along was
> not that Perl has obscurities; it's that it has TOO MANY, and the
> people who write perl (in my experienc
In a message dated: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 16:20:29 EDT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> I think he is thinking of the five-character limit in the original
>linker(s) used to develop Unix (which very well may have come from Multics).
>That five-character limit gave us the infamous creat(2) system call.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Agreed, and in most cases where you need to deal with arrays of
> hashes of hashes, or hashes of arrays of hashes, etc. you're probably
> better off using something like C.
>
> Of course, if you've mucked about with this type of thing long
> enough, it becomes rat
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, at 3:09pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Then you believe incorrectly. Many variants of Unix had a
>> 14-character filename limit. There is still a limit today, though
>> it's ridiculously large, so as not to matter practically.
>
> Ahh, 14 characters, that does sound familia
http://www.habeas.com/faq/index.htm
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In a message dated: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 15:01:45 EDT
"Derek D. Martin" said:
>At some point hitherto, [EMAIL PROTECTED] hath spake thusly:
>>
>> In a message dated: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:37:34 EDT
>> "Derek D. Martin" said:
>>
>> >I never claimed Unix commands weren't obscure; they ARE. I prefer
>
In a message dated: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 15:01:45 EDT
"Derek D. Martin" said:
>> I don't believe there was ever a name-length limitation on filenames.
>
>Then you believe incorrectly. Many variants of Unix had a
>14-character filename limit. There is still a limit today, though
>it's ridiculously
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At some point hitherto, [EMAIL PROTECTED] hath spake thusly:
>
> In a message dated: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:37:34 EDT
> "Derek D. Martin" said:
>
> >I never claimed Unix commands weren't obscure; they ARE. I prefer
> >them to Microsoft commands becaus
In a message dated: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:34:47 EDT
"Derek D. Martin" said:
>But the point is that there is no meaning inherent in $!
>(the use of which BTW, I have no idea, despite having seen and I'm
>pretty sure even used)...
Actually, there is. The meaning of $! is "what just blew up". I.e.
I thought that I would share this with the GNHLUG.
When I was subscribed to the Python tutor list a little while back, this
simple gem came along and I saved it as an inspiration to depend on
Python for things which I might initially jump to Perl or bash for.
Someone asked earlier this morning
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At some point hitherto, Erik Price hath spake thusly:
> "there is no meaning inherent in $!"
>
> Right. Just like there is no meaning inherent in #! but we all know
> what it means when it comes at the top of a script.
Yes, but again, it is not th
On Tuesday, August 20, 2002, at 12:34 PM, Derek D. Martin wrote:
> You still seem to be missing the point. Certainly, proficiency plays
> a role. But the point is that there is no meaning inherent in $!
> (the use of which BTW, I have no idea, despite having seen and I'm
> pretty sure even us
On Tue, 2002-08-20 at 11:57, Erik Price wrote:
> Actually, I tried to write it more densely but couldn't. I'm not a
> Python guru by any stretch, but I had thought that I could use "for key
> in sorted.sort()" instead of having the sort() method call on a separate
> line. Apparently I can't.
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At some point hitherto, [EMAIL PROTECTED] hath spake thusly:
> Hmmm, if you don't like $|, as Kevin already pointed out, you can:
>
> Use English;
>
> $OUTPUT_AUTOFLUSH = 1;
>
> which I actually find far more readable and understandable
Erik Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> For that matter, I find that the word "cannonical" is bandied about in
> Perl culture far more than anywhere else! ;) Interesting for a
> language in which there's more than one way to do things.
Well, I just used the word canonical in the canonical wa
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At some point hitherto, [EMAIL PROTECTED] hath spake thusly:
> I think you put far too much weight on the "recreational hackers" who
> favor neat tricks. It is one thing to fire off one-liners because one can;
> it is quite another to do so in "r
On Tuesday, August 20, 2002, at 08:07 AM, Kevin D. Clark wrote:
> In fact, my one-liner is probably the cannonical way that an
> experienced Perl programmer would have solved that problem (or, at
> least, pretty close).
For that matter, I find that the word "cannonical" is bandied about in
Pe
On Tuesday, August 20, 2002, at 12:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> But at the point where I say to myself, "I really think that I could
>> write this better and more easily if I used an object-oriented
>> methodology and designed some class definitions to help me", I would
>> turn to Python
Paul,
No, I wouldn't say that Python quite fills the same nitch. It
does have serious text processing capability, but you will type a fair
amount more to do those kinds of jobs in Pyhton. Also, www.python.org
has (or had, I haven't looked lately) some performance comparisons
with other
In a message dated: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:57:55 EDT
Erik Price said:
>But at the point where I say to myself, "I really think that I could
>write this better and more easily if I used an object-oriented
>methodology and designed some class definitions to help me", I would
>turn to Python and no
I respond to Michael O'Donnell, Kevin Clark, Ben Scott, and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] in this response:
Michael O'Donnell wrote:
> Wow. That doesn't suck. Thanks!
Well, I wrote it in a text editor called BBEdit on Mac OS X. BBEdit's
advert blurb is, literally: "It doesn't suck" (http://barebones.
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, at 10:45am, Derek D. Martin wrote:
> Programming Perl seems to almost, but not quite recognize how painful
> these things are to learn, by offering mnemonic devicess for each of
> them.
use English;
That is not just an idle comment; it refers to the fact that Perl does
r
On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, at 7:18pm, Derek D. Martin wrote:
> Perl seems to have gone out of its way to work like other common Unix
> tools/languages (shell scripting, C, sed/grep), in others it seems to go
> out of its way to do things in such a way as to be as confusing as
> possible.
How is that
In a message dated: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:55:00 EDT
"Hewitt Tech" said:
>P.S. For many programmers, it's the language they use every day that they
>favor. What is obscure for the neophyte is business as usual for the
>experienced programmer in that language.
Exactly the point I was trying to make
In a message dated: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:45:48 EDT
"Derek D. Martin" said:
>Here are two ways to do (more or less) the same thing, one in C and
>one in Perl:
>
> setlinebuf( file );
> $| = 1;
>
>Which is clearer to the inexperienced reader (but experienced
>programmer)? Which is easier to re
>>> It would help if you told us:
>>> - distribution and release
>>> - kernel version
>>> - C library version
>>> - Samba version
and architecture, as some are more equal than others,
particularly the 64 bit ones, like Alpha...
B.
___
gnhlug-dis
I kind of like Eric Raymond's take on the various programming languages
generally available on UNIX platforms. Take a look at:
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/taoup/chapter3.html
-Alex
P.S. For many programmers, it's the language they use every day that they
favor. What is obscure for the n
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At some point hitherto, [EMAIL PROTECTED] hath spake thusly:
> >1. Perl seems to favor supporting a variety of features with obscure,
> >meaningless, two-character variables that might be clearer with flags
> >or arguments to functions that make use o
In a message dated: 20 Aug 2002 07:34:27 EDT
"Kenneth E. Lussier" said:
>Hi All,
>
>Can the 2GB file size limit be changed? I need to store about 10GB worth
>of data in a single file, but it dies at 2GB.
I don't know if ext2 supports "big files". I think you need to turn
something on in the k
In a message dated: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 07:17:55 EDT
"Jim Cadorette" said:
>Whats a mini install fest?
It's like a big install-fest, only smaller :)
--
Seeya,
Paul
--
It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing,
but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away.
In a message dated: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:18:32 EDT
"Derek D. Martin" said:
>1. Perl seems to favor supporting a variety of features with obscure,
>meaningless, two-character variables that might be clearer with flags
>or arguments to functions that make use of it.
Define obscure please. Everyt
In a message dated: 19 Aug 2002 18:22:20 EDT
"Ryan T. McCarthy" said:
>If you want the whole internet experience, I take it you don't filter
>spam. You are paying for access to it, after all.
There is a huge difference between *me* choosing to filter spam and
someone else *telling* me it won'
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At some point hitherto, Mark Komarinski hath spake thusly:
> Samba and NFS(v2) don't like >2GB file sizes.
> http://www.suse.de/~aj/linux_lfs.html
That page is a bit outdated. It talks about RH 6.2 as being current,
and doesn't mention ext3 at all.
First, thanks to Kevin and Erik (and all)
for their examples and participation.
Second, when I said that one example "doesn't
suck" I was just trying to be high-larious,
not implying that the other one DID suck.
Apologies for any implied slight, and my
allergies are my own problem.
Third, just
This is a test to [EMAIL PROTECTED] My previous messages
are timing out from the Postfix program zcamail03.zca.compaq.com, and
I don't know why.
--
Bob Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-
"Suppose I want to take over the world. Sim
I think the more interesting question is "How dense is the resulting object
code which implements the semantics of the program?". This has been an
on-going language design/implementation question for most of the history of
computing. For example, a particular program can be implemented in "C" whic
In a message dated: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 17:17:43 EDT
Bill Freeman said:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> > >Suggestions for improvement welcome.
> >
> > Use perl.
> > --
>
>Use Python
Bill,
[ Note: this is not intended as the beginning of a flame-fest! ]
I'm curious what Python has to offer in
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I am curious: If that Perl code was optimized for education (as opposed to
> source size), what would it look like?
I dunno, maybe something like this:
#!/usr/bin/perl
@lines = <>;
@sortedLines = sort {
($baseA) = $a =~ m#/([^/]*)$#;
Whats a mini install fest?
Jim
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 3:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [gnhlug-announce] MELBA Meeting Wednesday night
When: Wednesday, 21 August 2002, 19:30ish
Where: Martha's Excha
On 20 Aug 2002, at 8:07am, Kevin D. Clark wrote:
> It was a one-liner. Take it for what it was.
I am curious: If that Perl code was optimized for education (as opposed to
source size), what would it look like? I am thinking, specifically, of the
Python example that was posted. Without even k
On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 09:10:58AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On 20 Aug 2002, at 8:12am, Kenneth E. Lussier wrote:
> > Sorry for the lack of description. I didn't want to get into too much
> > detail, since it is a bit embarrassing I'm doing a Windows backup to a
> > samba mount. I get
Can any of the Python programmers on this list implement this as a
one-liner? Just wondering.
(with Python's indentation rules, I think that this would be difficult)
Thanks,
--kevin
PS I could write a very similar program in Perl, obviously.
--
Kevin D. Clark / Cetacean Networks / Portsmo
On 20 Aug 2002, at 8:12am, Kenneth E. Lussier wrote:
> Sorry for the lack of description. I didn't want to get into too much
> detail, since it is a bit embarrassing I'm doing a Windows backup to a
> samba mount. I get write failures at the 2GB point. I believe that it is
> actually a limit in
On Tue, 2002-08-20 at 08:02, Michael O'Donnell wrote:
> Very descriptive. What "dies" ?
>
> I believe that, in general, recent kernels
> and libraries do now support large files, but
> many of the apps need to be modified to use the
> new interfaces and types (fpos_t and friends)
> instead of ju
"Derek D. Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> At some point hitherto, Kevin D. Clark hath spake thusly:
> > Honestly, I wrote that one-liner more with the intent of showing you
> > how cool Perl is, not with the intent of scaring you off from Perl.
>
> And yet the example you provided was far
"Kenneth E. Lussier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Hi All,
>
> Can the 2GB file size limit be changed? I need to store about 10GB worth
> of data in a single file, but it dies at 2GB.
I have files that are more than 3 GB on my system, in an ext3 filesystem.
It depends on whether the failure is
Erik Price wrote:
>#!/usr/bin/python
>#
># basenamesort.py
>#
># Unix-style filter that sorts a newline-separated
># list of files by the file basename
>#
># Example usage: cat files.txt | basenamesort.py
>
>import sys
>import os
>
>tempDict = {}
>
>for line in sys.stdin.xreadl
> Can the 2GB file size limit be changed? I need to store about
> 10GB worth of data in a single file, but it dies at 2GB.
Very descriptive. What "dies" ?
I believe that, in general, recent kernels
and libraries do now support large files, but
many of the apps need to be modified to use the
Hi All,
Can the 2GB file size limit be changed? I need to store about 10GB worth
of data in a single file, but it dies at 2GB.
TIA,
Kenny
--
"Tact is just *not* saying true stuff" -- Cordelia Chase
Kenneth E. Lussier
On Tuesday, August 20, 2002, at 12:39 AM, Erik Price wrote:
> #!/usr/bin/python
> #
> # basenamesort.py
> #
> # Unix-style filter that sorts a newline-separated
> # list of files by the file basename
> #
> # Example usage: cat files.txt | basenamesort.py
>
> import sys
> import os
>
> tempDict
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