Re: bugzilla and tasks suitable for new contributors; an easy way to help gnome-love

2005-03-10 Thread Olav Vitters
On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 12:25:46PM -0700, Elijah Newren wrote: The easy-fix keyword in bugzilla has been renamed to gnome-love[1]. We would like to encourage people to use this keyword for bugs that would be suitable for a new developer looking for a task. The report shows the comment made

Re: some thoughts about contributing to gnome

2005-05-11 Thread Olav Vitters
On Wed, May 11, 2005 at 09:57:29AM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: On 5/11/05, Vincent Untz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Le mercredi 11 mai 2005 à 00:49 +0200, Samuel Abels a écrit : Am Dienstag, den 10.05.2005, 16:25 -0600 schrieb Elijah Newren: We've pinged d-d-l a few times about this. My

Re: Please add GNU Hurd to buzilla's list of Operating Systems

2005-06-07 Thread Olav Vitters
On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 04:02:56PM +0200, Michael Banck wrote: I've been filing a couple bugs/patches for Hurd-related GNOME issues for a while, and it is getting tiresome having to tick 'OS: other'. Plus, I've been approached by one of the upstream Hurd developers whether a good overview of

Re: Product Specific Guidelines

2005-06-11 Thread Olav Vitters
On Sat, Jun 11, 2005 at 11:14:04AM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: On 6/11/05, Olav Vitters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [..] Seconded. Ideally I'd want all the stuff to be moved over, proving live.gnome.org gets some love (it is ugly). Oh, and that someone else moves the content over ;) Also

Re: newbie question- querying on isgnome

2005-07-11 Thread Olav Vitters
On Mon, Jul 11, 2005 at 07:50:44AM -0400, Luis Villa wrote: On 7/11/05, Olav Vitters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 11:01:30PM -0400, Luis Villa wrote: Hey, dudes, dudettes- My name is Luis, and I have a bug habit. Also, a question. How do I query on isgnome? Like

Adding yourself to cc-list automatically

2005-07-15 Thread Olav Vitters
Such an option will be part of 2.20, but for now you can use Greasemonkey to automatically cc yourself. Requires Mozilla/Firefox. Instructions: 1. Install Greasemonkey from http://greasemonkey.mozdev.org/ 2. Download http://www.gnome.org/~ovitters/bz.fun.user.js 3. Change the email address in

Re: reporting change in percentage of open bugs over time per product

2005-07-22 Thread Olav Vitters
On Fri, Jul 22, 2005 at 09:55:17AM -0400, Luis Villa wrote: Or so it seems to me. If anyone wants to whip this up it would rock ;) Luis (can make database dumps available on request for people who want to play with this) [1] It *did* make the bugtrack less full of bugs by a nice amount,

Re: Help wanted with bugzilla 2.20 (classifying products)

2005-10-19 Thread Olav Vitters
On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 11:07:15AM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: On 10/18/05, Paolo Borelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Il giorno mar, 18/10/2005 alle 11.30 +0200, Olav Vitters ha scritto: In 2.20 the products will be divided into classifications. Currently the following classifications exist

Bugzilla down for software upgrade on Sun 18 Dec 09.00 UTC

2005-12-06 Thread Olav Vitters
Soon it will be time to make Bugzilla unavailable for 5 hours. This will be done on Sunday 18 December on 9.00 UTC or: http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=12day=18year=2005hour=9min=0sec=0p1=0 During the downtime I'll upgrade bugzilla.gnome.org to a customized Bugzilla 2.20.

Re: Bugzilla down for software upgrade on Sun 18 Dec 09.00 UTC

2005-12-07 Thread Olav Vitters
On Sat, Aug 20, 2005 at 09:03:48PM +0100, Nelson Benítez wrote: Olav Vitters escribió: I changed it now... you will not get the checkbox if you are the reporter. Thanks. Btw, the new look is nice but, as a suggestion, I would change the bug summary to have a bigger font size, like in old

Re: Bugzilla down for software upgrade on Sun 18 Dec 09.00 UTC

2005-12-08 Thread Olav Vitters
On Thu, Dec 08, 2005 at 11:50:34AM +0100, Christian Kirbach wrote: On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 10:31:03 +0100, Nelson Benítez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you attach a screenshot of how big it is now? I now for some reason it is very small in Opera 8.5. Attached screenshot in firefox, I

Re: Product list

2005-12-19 Thread Olav Vitters
On Mon, Dec 19, 2005 at 09:41:23AM +0100, Murray Cumming wrote: Is there any way we can reorder the categories here: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi Having Bindings and Deprecated (huge) at the top isn't very useful, and it bothers me that the very first product there is for Glade code

Re: bugzilla stock responses

2006-01-06 Thread Olav Vitters
On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 02:24:50PM +0100, Andre Klapper wrote: by using some of the new integrated stock responses in bugzilla (e.g. bad_stacktrace), a report is automatically set to 'needinfo' status. imo, we should also add a sentence like 'setting to NEEDINFO, please REOPEN when

Re: [Bug 947] add 'NEEDINFO' status

2006-01-07 Thread Olav Vitters
On Sat, Jan 07, 2006 at 02:17:37PM +0100, Geert Stappers wrote: On Sat, Jan 07, 2006 at 12:56:21PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://bugs.skolelinux.no/show_bug.cgi?id=947 [EMAIL PROTECTED] changed: What|Removed |Added

Re: Permission

2006-02-03 Thread Olav Vitters
On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 01:33:18AM -0500, Kyle Stevens wrote: I started triaging a couple days ago, and I have helped with 3-4 bugs that were unconfirmed. I also reported a bug, and posted a very trivial patch to fix it. It is difficult triaging when you have to ask someone else to do

Re: Help with Triage of Bug 329610

2006-02-03 Thread Olav Vitters
On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 01:19:17AM -0500, Kyle Stevens wrote: I just started triaging the other day, and I do not yet have permission to make changes. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=329610 I just looked at Bug 329610. There does not seem to be any duplicates. I would make

Allowing anonymous users to submit crashers via bug-buddy: Yes/No?

2006-02-09 Thread Olav Vitters
The XML-RPC post by fer showed a Bug-Buddy which didn't ask for any information (steps to reproduce or an email address). See http://www.gnome.org/~fherrera/blog/new-bugbuddy.html I'm against allowing anonymous users to submit crasher bugs. Mainly because I fear this will cause a huge increase in

Re: camorama

2006-02-09 Thread Olav Vitters
On Thu, Feb 09, 2006 at 08:23:43PM +0100, Sven Herzberg wrote: can you please update the default assignee for the camorama product to some camorama-maint-alias? I'm currently working on some stuff and Greg no longer has time to maintain camorama, so it would be good if camorama got such an

1000 bugreports in one day, every day

2006-06-01 Thread Olav Vitters
I posted some stats about Bug-Buddy usage per GNOME version at: http://blogs.gnome.org/view/ovitters/2006/05/31/0 I couldn't really make any conclusions about it and the comments on that blog also point that out (unfortunate, because I hoped someone would see something insightful). I did make

Re: 1000 bugreports in one day, every day

2006-06-03 Thread Olav Vitters
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 08:46:16AM +0200, Vincent Untz wrote: Le jeudi 01 juin 2006 à 22:39 +0200, Olav Vitters a écrit : [..] This will remove a lot of the reasons I can think of why we are not getting a 1000 bugreports a day. So I have to wonder what happens when 2.16.0 is released

Re: 1000 bugreports in one day, every day

2006-06-03 Thread Olav Vitters
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 12:03:12PM -0600, Elijah Newren wrote: On 6/3/06, Olav Vitters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 08:46:16AM +0200, Vincent Untz wrote: While 1000 bugs per day would be nice for my bugzilla points (most of the bugs should be duplicates for crashers

Change in watching F-spot bugs

2006-06-07 Thread Olav Vitters
F-spot bugs are now by default assigned to [EMAIL PROTECTED] All existing bugs that where assigned to lewing have been reassigned. Use the 'Users to watch' feature in your bugzilla email settings prefs to watch [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Email settings). PS lewing: @gnome.bugs, @gnome.org = sysadmin

Re: libnm_glib and bug-buddy

2006-06-28 Thread Olav Vitters
On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 06:07:48PM -0600, Brent Smith wrote: I'm just wondering if there are plans to make the (current) hard dependency on libnm_glib in bug-buddy a compile time dependency? As far as I know, this library is not part of the official gnome libraries. Fer changed/fixed

Re: clearer bugzilla stock responses. shorter ways.

2006-10-11 Thread Olav Vitters
On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 01:01:16PM -0700, Brian Kerrick Nickel wrote: One change I would recommend is the link provided in the BAD STACK TRACE stock response. Since the majority of people would be sending from bug-buddy (I think), and all of them already are sending stack traces, sending them

Re: Policy proposal: Dropping 2.16 reports

2007-09-15 Thread Olav Vitters
On Sat, Sep 15, 2007 at 12:15:22PM -0500, Diego Escalante Urrelo wrote: Proposal: Drop $version-before-last-stable crasher reports when $new-stable comes out So in practice: Drop 2.16 when 2.20 comes out? FYI: I proposed dropping 2.16 at the time of 2.18. IIRC @d-d-l. It wasn't appreciated.

Re: Duplicates

2007-09-21 Thread Olav Vitters
On Fri, Sep 21, 2007 at 06:16:24PM -0500, Federico Mena Quintero wrote: Our bugzilla has a lovely http://bugzilla.gnome.org/duplicates.cgi to look for the bugs with the highest number of duplicates. Is there custom code to generate this page? If so, where can I get it? :) Only a slight

Re: Time for the annual bugzilla statistics!

2008-01-08 Thread Olav Vitters
On Tue, Jan 08, 2008 at 11:50:22PM +0100, Andre Klapper wrote: Thanks to Olav for running the script (he did so on Jan. 6th instead of early Jan. 1st, so the stats might have a slight skew, but it's unlikely to have had a major effect). Last year it was the same.. also ran only on 6 Jan.. so

Re: Not accepting GNOME 2.18 crash reports

2008-03-12 Thread Olav Vitters
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 06:50:03PM +0100, Olav Vitters wrote: Currently Bug Buddy bugs are only accepted for GNOME 2.18 and newer. I suggest to change this to 2.20. Meaning: don't accept anything older. Done. IIRC only since ~5-10min ago (did the commit earlier today, but did not update

Re: Patch status for a non-developer

2008-07-30 Thread Olav Vitters
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 12:03:22AM -0500, Diego Escalante Urrelo wrote: CC'ing our awesome sysadmin to get you the powers. But we can just start sending emails in there I think. Actually cc'ing the list too to test that. (first p0st!!! l0lz!!!) I do not know the password for patchsquad-list.

Re: Fwd: Request for beta testers: Bugzilla and Trac plugins

2008-08-25 Thread Olav Vitters
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 07:53:33AM -0400, Andrew Conkling wrote: This message wasn't intended to discuss GNOME's Bugzilla but I brought that up. Apparently there has been some discussion about this, just wondering what it was and whether there'd be any chance of getting this (and I guess

Re: Where/how to report crashing bug for openoffice.org-gtk openoffice.org-gnome packages?

2008-09-11 Thread Olav Vitters
On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 11:33:16AM +0100, Tim Richardson wrote: It is not listed anywhere that would be at least half obvious, in my humble opinion. OpenOffice is not part of GNOME. They have their own bugreporting system. -- Regards, Olav ___

Re: Gimmie in GNOME Bugzilla.

2008-09-22 Thread Olav Vitters
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 01:58:50PM +0200, Andre Klapper wrote: Alex: *ping* I've already closed it for bugreports. However, bugbuddy import thingy doesn't check it. Patch welcome. -- Regards, Olav ___ Gnome-bugsquad mailing list

Re: requesting permission to give editing permission

2009-02-12 Thread Olav Vitters
On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 04:57:54PM -0600, Gabriel Burt wrote: What is the process for getting permission to give others bug-editing permission? What are the requirements? 1) You never give someone permissions if you don't check how that person is doing. 2) Don't hand out permissions if it

[mka...@bugzilla.org: Test Bugzilla 3.4 Instance for GNOME]

2009-07-30 Thread Olav Vitters
FYI, Please join the discussion on desktop-devel-list, or reply with mka...@bugzilla.org cc'ed. -- Regards, Olav ---BeginMessage--- Hello! My company, Everything Solved, has been working on porting forward GNOME's Bugzilla customizations to Bugzilla 3.4 for the past several months,

Re: Danger: older bugs are getting squashed with NEEDINFO

2009-09-18 Thread Olav Vitters
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 04:15:19PM +0200, Pietro Battiston wrote: Then, once someone offers to be the glade bugs maintainer, I think we could ask that he checks every bug once a year. You're restating what has been suggested. If a bug is valid, mark it as NEW. It was already proposed that the

Re: Putting Splinter on bugzilla.gnome.org

2009-10-08 Thread Olav Vitters
On Wed, Oct 07, 2009 at 12:26:52PM -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: It hasn't really made updating Splinter any more like updating the rest of Bugzilla - it's just moved the 'make install' procedure that has to be documented from the server to the developer's machine. I prefer the complexity to be on

Re: Bugday 2009-12: Banner on b.g.o

2009-10-12 Thread Olav Vitters
On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 02:02:27PM +0100, Tobias Mueller wrote: We, the Bugsquad, want to have a bugday in around 8 weeks *yay*. To show that the actions of the newbies are highly appreciated and to convince people who are rather new on bugzilla to take part in the bugday, we want to have a

Re: BugSquad Meeting Minutes -- 2009-10/09

2009-10-12 Thread Olav Vitters
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 10:36:43AM -0500, C de-Avillez wrote: Generally a good thing to help newbies finding their way to the magics of Triaging. The problem with newbies closing bugs is, though, that Read the discussion on #bugs partly. Noticed someone remarking that there aren't a lot of

Re: Problems with jobqueue.pl falling over

2009-10-26 Thread Olav Vitters
I've put the following into a daily cron: /sbin/service bugzilla-queue restart -- Regards, Olav ___ gnome-bugsquad mailing list gnome-bugsquad@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-bugsquad

Re: Permissions to give triaging rights

2009-10-29 Thread Olav Vitters
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 09:47:44AM -0300, Pedro Villavicencio Garrido wrote: Chile and it might make sense to have the permissions to give triaging rights and people already asked us for mentoring during the last GNOME done. Click Administration at the top of any page, then Users, search for

Re: Please give me bug triaging permissions on PiTiVi

2010-02-04 Thread Olav Vitters
On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 10:59:01PM -0500, Jeff Fortin wrote: Hey there, I've been doing bug triaging for pitivi for over a year (and you may remember me as the freak who filed ~200 bugs on it in 2009), but I lack permissions. I can't change bug statuses / mark duplicates / set target

Re: Please give me bug triaging permissions on PiTiVi

2010-02-04 Thread Olav Vitters
ok, done -- Regards, Olav ___ gnome-bugsquad mailing list gnome-bugsquad@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-bugsquad

Re: Power to create new Bugzilla products

2010-08-13 Thread Olav Vitters
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 11:45:44PM +0200, Christian Kirbach wrote: Am Donnerstag, den 22.07.2010, 11:03 +0100 schrieb Philip Withnall: I've been pushing for bgo#624419 to be fixed for a week now, since I'm working on libfolks with Travis Reitter, and collaboration would be a whole lot

Re: Power to create new Bugzilla products

2010-08-14 Thread Olav Vitters
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 02:58:41PM +0200, Andre Klapper wrote: However I'd prefer to first see the defaults for new products documented on a wikipage (like Voting defaults, default QA and assignee virtual email addresses style etc) to avoid inconsistencies (cf. 626156#c2). nazgul, could you

Re: Power to create new Bugzilla products

2010-08-21 Thread Olav Vitters
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 07:36:14PM +0200, Tobias Mueller wrote: Bonjour, On 13.08.2010 14:58, Andre Klapper wrote: I'm ok depending on who is suggested. I offer my help. So do I. I'd also appreciate kind of a documentation that states what needs to be done in order to create a

Re: Power to create new Bugzilla products

2010-08-22 Thread Olav Vitters
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 10:21:49PM +0200, Olav Vitters wrote: On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 07:36:14PM +0200, Tobias Mueller wrote: Bonjour, On 13.08.2010 14:58, Andre Klapper wrote: I'm ok depending on who is suggested. I offer my help. So do I. I'd also appreciate kind

Re: Power to create new Bugzilla products

2010-08-22 Thread Olav Vitters
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 11:20:22PM +0200, Andre Klapper wrote: Am Sonntag, den 22.08.2010, 21:50 +0200 schrieb Olav Vitters: As a first step I've set you both as maintainers. Still have to write down how to create products. Couldn't find the standard text on live.gnome.org, so perhaps need

Re: Power to create new Bugzilla products

2010-08-23 Thread Olav Vitters
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 09:50:38PM +0200, Olav Vitters wrote: Another thing: bugmas...@gnome.org actually goes to: http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/bugzilla-maintainers I forgot the list password. Either I can ask Elijah, search my old emails, or reset it. Anyway, please subscribe

Re: Power to create new Bugzilla products

2010-08-23 Thread Olav Vitters
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 07:53:22PM +0200, Christian Kirbach wrote: Am Sonntag, den 22.08.2010, 23:20 +0200 schrieb Andre Klapper: Am Sonntag, den 22.08.2010, 21:50 +0200 schrieb Olav Vitters: On http://live.gnome.org/BugzillaMaintainers I'd set up two sections: 1) Contacting

[mka...@bugzilla.org: Second Bugzilla Administrators Users Group]

2010-08-26 Thread Olav Vitters
fyi -- Regards, Olav ---BeginMessage--- Hey folks! So, the first Bugzilla Administrators Users Group meeting was a success, I've got a write-up about it here: http://bugzillaupdate.wordpress.com/2010/08/17/the-first-bugzilla-users-administrators-group-august-4-2010/

Handing out editbugs+canconfirm

2010-09-18 Thread Olav Vitters
If anyone has been triaging for a while and wants to hand out bugsquad permissions to (assist) new people, please reply and specify your email address used on GNOME Bugzilla. Just make sure to follow new people and guide them. Note: You can always request the handing out permissions to

Re: Handing out editbugs+canconfirm

2010-09-18 Thread Olav Vitters
On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 06:00:11PM -0500, C de-Avillez wrote: Yes, count me in: hgg...@gmail.com -- we are trying to get more bugSquadders helping on b.g.o Done. See the Administration link at the top of every page. Just make sure to give editbugs as well as canconfirm (in case there are 2

Re: Handing out editbugs+canconfirm

2010-09-20 Thread Olav Vitters
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 01:24:42PM -0400, Fabio Duran Verdugo wrote: me too. Done! Copy/pasting 3rd time: See the Administration link at the top of every page. Just make sure to give editbugs as well as canconfirm (in case there are 2 checkboxes next to eachother, you want the ones in the 2nd

Re: Handing out editbugs+canconfirm

2010-09-27 Thread Olav Vitters
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 01:39:05PM +0300, Tobias Mueller wrote: Does that make kind of sense? Could we write a module (or whatever) for bugzilla to implement that behaviour? I understand it, but I don't see how you could implement it. I don't want major code changes vs upstream, so the

Re: Straw bugs update

2011-01-04 Thread Olav Vitters
On Tue, Jan 04, 2011 at 11:40:54AM +0530, Akhil Laddha wrote: I just wanted to let you all know that after getting node from straw [1] maintainers / developers, i have closed all the straw bugs as WONTFIX. Straw development has been stalled and it has been unmaintained for a few years

Re: Bugzilla upgrade? [was: Re: GNOME Bugmail: Gmail threading finally working!]

2012-12-12 Thread Olav Vitters
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 04:58:48PM +0100, Olav Vitters wrote: Do *NOT* touch Bugzilla. As mentioned before, there are *load* and with the not touching I meant in case of an intended action of just upgrading to a new vanilla upstream version. -- Regards, Olav

Re: Bugzilla upgrade? [was: Re: GNOME Bugmail: Gmail threading finally working!]

2012-12-12 Thread Olav Vitters
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 05:17:54PM +0100, Andre Klapper wrote: On Wed, 2012-12-12 at 16:48 +0100, Andrea Veri wrote: Thanks for bringing this up Andre. I can try to work on the upgrade but I never touched Bugzilla before since Olav was used to manage it. I've searched around for the upgrade

Re: Bugzilla upgrade? [was: Re: GNOME Bugmail: Gmail threading finally working!]

2012-12-12 Thread Olav Vitters
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 05:42:16PM +0100, Andre Klapper wrote: On Wed, 2012-12-12 at 17:24 +0100, Olav Vitters wrote: Would be helpful if Olav could outline that, yes. There's a raw codedump of some stuff at http://bzr.mozilla.org/bugzilla/extensions/ which is untested and non-working

Re: Bugzilla upgrade work

2012-12-17 Thread Olav Vitters
On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 11:06:03AM -0800, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote: Is there some way we could make these extensions and patches we can put in a puppet install? I realize the database portion is going to be the manual stuff, but it seems that it would be easier to be able to automate it. Of

Re: Fwd: Re: Commit push do gnome-calculator

2012-12-30 Thread Olav Vitters
On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 12:21:38PM -0200, Enrico Nicoletto wrote: I and my collegue Rafael Ferreira are facing problems in push the catalog pt_BR.po in Gnome Calculator´s module in Git. We, from the Brazilian Portuguese Translation Team, believe that this error is caused by a permission

Re: Applying for edit permissions.

2013-05-17 Thread Olav Vitters
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 03:09:44AM -0700, Timothy Arceri wrote: I have been contributing patches to various Gnome projects such as GTK, Glib, Gvfs, Nautilus etcfor the past two years and the more I contribute the more annoying it is to not have edit access in bugzilla for example I've been

Re: gaining access to libxml2 bugs in bugzilla.gnome.org

2016-08-22 Thread Olav Vitters
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 06:02:29PM +, Djalaliev, Peter wrote: > Can you please assist in getting access to the bugs above? I've removed the security restrictions from all bugs which have a public commit. One bug unfortunately discussed another bug, so I kept that one closed. -- Regards,

Re: Bugzilla Permissions

2019-08-15 Thread Olav Vitters
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 05:04:28PM +, Ahmad Hazimeh via gnome-bugsquad wrote: > My name is Ahmad Hazimeh, and I'm a Ph.D. candidate at EPFL with the HexHive > group. > I am currently working on a project that involves analyzing bug reports and > published fixes. > I have come across many

Closure of gnome-bugsquad mailing list

2020-10-09 Thread Olav Vitters via gnome-bugsquad
Dear subscribers, Please cc me on replies. We've set up https://discourse.gnome.org a year and a half ago, as part of an attempt at making the GTK mailing list more friendly to newcomers. This experiment seems to have proven itself well enough, and has since expanded to other territories as