On 2020-02-22 19:38, Mike Gerwitz wrote:
On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 20:48:43 +0100, Andreas Enge wrote:
On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 10:26:22AM -0800, Kaz Kylheku
(gnu-misc-discuss) wrote:
On 2020-02-22 01:22, Andreas Enge wrote:
> And another ad-hominem attack. Can you substantiate the claim of us
>
This might be interest for anyone wondering how the GNU project works.
I've attached the text version of the the Structure and Administration
of the GNU Project document as well (version 1.0.1).
--- Begin Message ---
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]]
[[[
A code of conduct will not sovle the issue. Kind communication will,
your message like the previous poster are both unkind.
I suggest that you in the future send moderation requests to the
administrators of the list, and not here. That reduces any kind of
friction on this list.
Hi Alex!
If you have time and interest, the GNU project is looking for new
maintainers for several projects. See our take action page:
https://www.gnu.org/server/takeaction.en.html
Contrary to the members of Manor farm, we welcome anyone and will not
dismiss your opinion just because you are
Just because you feel it is an insult doesn't mean that moderation is
the right solution. The GNU project doesn't take easy solutions which
lead to slipery and vauge arguments like this where "insult" is enough
to get someone silenced.
If you really want to help, I suggest you ask people to
These are good questions and my apologies we didn't make this more
clear. The GNU Social Contract is important because it defines what the
GNU project stands for. It is a mission statement.
This is not true, the non-GNU anti-social edict doesn't define
anything what the GNU project
Jean Louis, 22/02/20 23:52:
Now imagine the freedom for North Korean leaders to run the GNU
software to launch nuclear rockets towards Boston, USA. Would you be
in agreement on it?
Let's use a more concrete example (because it's actionable, unlike
fictional lawsuits in North Korea): are
On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 02:19:57AM -0500, John Darrington wrote:
> Now we see where we're heading if we're not vigilant:
> 1. A code of conduct which outlaws insulting messages.
> 2. An influential minority providing "governence".
> 3. The "governence" deciding what is and isn't "insulting" ...
John Darrington writes:
Hello John,
> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 07:14:44PM +0100, Alexandre Fran?ois Garreau wrote:
>> Le samedi 22 f??vrier 2020, 18:41:48 CET Ludovic Court??s a ??crit :
>>
>> > PS: It???s telling that yet another insulting message passed moderation!
>>
>> Wait it was
Per the request offered by email, I am offering my support for the GNU
social contract.
I, maintainer of package LilyPond, endorse version 1.0 of the GNU
Social Contract, available at https://wiki.gnu.tools/gnu:social-contract.
--
Han-Wen Nienhuys - hanw...@gmail.com -
> From: Ludovic Courtès
> Cc: Mark Wielaard , gnu-misc-discuss@gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 22:04:36 +0100
>
> > I always thought that maintaining a GNU project according to the
> > guidelines I was communicated when I was appointed _is_ upholding GNU
> > values, that it's all there is in
So I'm a GNU maintainer, I've asked now repeatedly that those wanting
to voice their non-GNU document at least have the courtesy to mention
that the GNU project isn't requiring nor will require anyone to pledge
their allegiance to anything particular. This has been answered with
a false
I would like to be unsubscribed from the "NYLXS" list, and the
gnu-misc-discuss list if it's being sent there too.
I'm on the list to see what RMS has to say, once in awhile.
I'm not on this list to see a do-nothing guy foment all day and night
filling up my inbox. Ruben: If you want to sue,
On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 14:35:56 -0800, Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss) wrote:
> On 2020-02-22 18:58, Amin Bandali wrote:
>> "Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss)" <936-846-2...@kylheku.com> writes:
>>
>> [...]
>>>
>>> You are sick.
>>
>> I urge you to consider the GNU Kind Communications Guidelines [0]
On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 21:21:18 +0100, Andreas Enge wrote:
> The reason I have been insisting is that inaction towards this kind of
> behaviour kills communication in the GNU project - if victims of verbal
> abuse are expected to change their opinions to stop the name calling,
> or are invited to
On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 08:50:44 -0800, Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss) wrote:
> On 2020-02-22 19:38, Mike Gerwitz wrote:
>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 20:48:43 +0100, Andreas Enge wrote:
>>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 10:26:22AM -0800, Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss)
>>> wrote:
On 2020-02-22 01:22,
Mark:
On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 11:36:16 -0700, Mark Galassi wrote:
> I wrote to endorse the GNU social contract and received an email which
> made me feel insulted and intimidated (this one said "F*** you", so not
> much risk of misinterpreting the language). I also got a sequence of
> replied
Alexandre François Garreau writes:
> Yet expressing it directly, without filter, it has already been
> said, is unkind.
I agree, and I think this is a key point to understand. The FSF has
stated that it will accept work from anyone regardless of what they
BELIEVE. Kindness is about what
On 2/20/20 3:55 AM, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Our concern is that at some point GNU may be just completely unknown
> to free software enthousiasts.
Don't worry about that. It is not your concern an a package maintainer
and it's not even a remote possiblity.
--
So many immigrant groups have
On 2/21/20 3:07 AM, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> I don’t think so, but I’d rather emphasize “symbiosis†with some
> projects than disagreements with others.
That is too bad because the goal of GNU is to seperate GNU from other
projects that don't maining the Four Freedoms
Ruben
--
So many
Hi Han-Wen,
On Sun, 2020-02-23 at 10:34 +0100, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> I, maintainer of package LilyPond, endorse version 1.0 of the GNU
> Social Contract, available at
> https://wiki.gnu.tools/gnu:social-contract.
Thanks for your support. You have been added to
If you feel so much angered by an email, try to see past the points
that you get angry about and try to find what the other party is
trying to communicate. It is much better to try and steer the
discussion in to a constructive direction, than trying to moderate
what people can or cannot say --
On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 02:37:35PM -0500, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
>So what do you think that someone tries to communicate with the statement
>"You are sick"?
> Ignore the statement, or see past it -- be the better person.
Okay, so if I understand correctly, you are telling me to be less
Hi,
Tobias Geerinckx-Rice skribis:
> As lowly co-consp^Wmaintainer of GNU Guix I endorse version 1.0 of the
> GNU Social Contract as proposed here[0].
Noted, thank you Tobias!
Ludo’.
Manor farm is the poorly run farm by the evil Mr. Jones in Animal Farm
by George Orwell.
> If you feel so much angered by an email, try to see past the points
> that you get angry about and try to find what the other party is
> trying to communicate.
So what do you think that someone tries to communicate with the statement
"You are sick"?
Ignore the statement, or
Here it is with my suggestion for the moderators.
Thank you. Moderators cannot do anything when someones CCs you
directly, none of the messages you mentioned went through to this list
that I can see (you can see the public archive at
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gnu-misc-discuss/).
Hi,
Eli Zaretskii skribis:
>> From: Ludovic Courtès
[...]
>> Quoth RMS¹:
>>
>> GNU package maintainers have committed to do work to maintain and add
>> to the GNU system, but not anything beyond that. We have never
>> pressed contributors to endorse the GNU Project philosophy, or any
Le dimanche 23 février 2020, 23:35:56 CET Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss) a
écrit :
> On 2020-02-22 18:58, Amin Bandali wrote:
> > "Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss)" <936-846-2...@kylheku.com> writes:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >> You are sick.
> >
> > I urge you to consider the GNU Kind Communications
Le lundi 24 février 2020, 03:26:17 CET DJ Delorie a écrit :
> Alexandre François Garreau writes:
> > Yet expressing it directly, without filter, it has already been
> > said, is unkind.
>
> I agree, and I think this is a key point to understand. The FSF has
Wait why “the FSF”? until now we
Thank you for showing your support for the GNU project. But this is
not a document by the GNU project, as a GNU maintainer you are not
required to endorse or even support the GNU philosophy or free
software movement since we wish to welcome anyone and everyone if they
wish to contribute to the
Le dimanche 23 février 2020, 19:50:23 CET Andreas Enge a écrit :
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 01:04:45PM -0500, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> > A code of conduct will not sovle the issue. Kind communication will,
> > your message like the previous poster are both unkind.
>
> Well, stating that a person
Andreas Enge skribis:
> The reason I have been insisting is that inaction towards this kind of
> behaviour kills communication in the GNU project - if victims of verbal
> abuse are expected to change their opinions to stop the name calling,
> or are invited to be less susceptible, they will
Le dimanche 23 février 2020, 22:01:42 CET Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss) a
écrit :
> Why should anyone be kind and meek in the face of fascists?
Because it weakens your point. Especially on a written medium.
> That's not what our forefathers did.
Not on mailing-lists. World change.
> That
Andreas Enge, 23/02/20 20:50:
So far, I have not got the impression that asking aggressive people to
communicate kindly has had any effect (while I think I have mostly succeeded
in communicating kindly myself)
For what it's worth, I believe you have failed to be kind in several
occasions;
Le dimanche 23 février 2020, 20:13:51 CET Andreas Enge a écrit :
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 02:04:29PM -0500, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> > If you feel so much angered by an email, try to see past the points
> > that you get angry about and try to find what the other party is
> > trying to
On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 01:04:45PM -0500, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> A code of conduct will not sovle the issue. Kind communication will,
> your message like the previous poster are both unkind.
Well, stating that a person who is victim of abuse and complains about it
sends an "unkind" message
On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 09:11:46PM +0200, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
> For what it's worth, I believe you have failed to be kind in several
> occasions; from a quick sample of three of your messages I found one which
> was dubious and one definitely less than kind ("bickering"
Indeed I give you
Hey Han-Wen,
Han-Wen Nienhuys skribis:
> Per the request offered by email, I am offering my support for the GNU
> social contract.
>
> I, maintainer of package LilyPond, endorse version 1.0 of the GNU
> Social Contract, available at https://wiki.gnu.tools/gnu:social-contract.
Noted, thank you!
>So what do you think that someone tries to communicate with the
statement
>"You are sick"?
> Ignore the statement, or see past it -- be the better person.
Okay, so if I understand correctly, you are telling me to be less
susceptible.
No, I'm asking you to help improve the
On 2020-02-23 01:34, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
Per the request offered by email, I am offering my support for the GNU
social contract.
I, maintainer of package LilyPond, endorse version 1.0 of the GNU
Social Contract, available at
https://wiki.gnu.tools/gnu:social-contract.
Did you read it
Le dimanche 23 février 2020, 21:10:01 CET Tobias Geerinckx-Rice a écrit :
> As lowly co-consp^Wmaintainer of GNU Guix I endorse version 1.0
x'D
Sincerely, genuine irony/auto-derision can be amusing, even when
disagreeing :')
I wish more people had the cleverness of showing empathy in these
On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 02:04:29PM -0500, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> If you feel so much angered by an email, try to see past the points
> that you get angry about and try to find what the other party is
> trying to communicate.
So what do you think that someone tries to communicate with the
* Alfred M. Szmidt [2020-02-23 21:05]:
> Hi Alex!
>
> If you have time and interest, the GNU project is looking for new
> maintainers for several projects. See our take action page:
> https://www.gnu.org/server/takeaction.en.html
>
> Contrary to the members of Manor farm, we welcome anyone and
Dear GNU maintainers,
I wrote to endorse the GNU social contract and received an email which
made me feel insulted and intimidated (this one said "F*** you", so not
much risk of misinterpreting the language). I also got a sequence of
replied from people telling me I was wrong to do so. These
Apparently I've been subscribed to a mailing list --
http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/options/hangout -- without my permission or
consent. I wish to be removed from that mailing list and any mailing list copies
being relayed to me by any subscriber to that list.
I have been able to reach
> That's just the tip of a very large iceberg. I know it, you know it,
> and every GNU maintainer knows it. When we get appointed, we receive
> a 1000-word message from RMS with some quite non-trivial instructions,
> including, but not limited to, a pointer to maintain.texi as the
On 2020-02-22 18:58, Amin Bandali wrote:
"Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss)" <936-846-2...@kylheku.com> writes:
[...]
You are sick.
I urge you to consider the GNU Kind Communications Guidelines [0] when
posting to GNU lists, as well as keeping this list's guidelines [1] in
mind when posting
As lowly co-consp^Wmaintainer of GNU Guix I endorse version 1.0 of
the GNU Social Contract as proposed here[0].
Thanks to the members of this list for changing my mind on the
matter.
Kind regards,
T G-R
[0]:
On 23.02.2020 19:35, J.B. Nicholson wrote:
Apparently I've been subscribed to a mailing list --
http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/options/hangout -- without my
permission or consent. I wish to be removed from that mailing list and
any mailing list copies being relayed to me by any subscriber
Le dimanche 23 février 2020, 21:21:18 CET Andreas Enge a écrit :
> Well, I will let it drop - I am quite optimistic that personally I will
> survive to insults by random strangers on the Internet.
>
> The reason I have been insisting is that inaction towards this kind of
> behaviour kills
Le dimanche 23 février 2020, 22:34:32 CET Ludovic Courtès a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> Eli Zaretskii skribis:
> >> From: Ludovic Courtès
>
> [...]
>
> >> The GNU Social Contract is about changing that.
> >
> > How can you change that if the document is voluntary?
>
> Endorsers will know what to
On 2020-02-23 00:32, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
John Darrington writes:
Hello John,
On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 07:14:44PM +0100, Alexandre Fran?ois Garreau
wrote:
Le samedi 22 f??vrier 2020, 18:41:48 CET Ludovic Court??s a ??crit :
> PS: It???s telling that yet another insulting message passed
Le dimanche 23 février 2020, 20:13:51 CET Andreas Enge a écrit :
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 02:04:29PM -0500, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> > If you feel so much angered by an email, try to see past the points
> > that you get angry about and try to find what the other party is
> > trying to
Le dimanche 23 février 2020, 20:18:59 CET Andreas Enge a écrit :
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 09:11:46PM +0200, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
> > For what it's worth, I believe you have failed to be kind in several
> > occasions; from a quick sample of three of your messages I found one
> > which was
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