Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

> Am 16.08.2018 um 17:06 schrieb Derek Atkins : > > A user shouldn't really care whether a gnucash datafile is XML or SQLite -- > it should just work. Exactly! The internal data format does not matter to the user. The handling within and outside of Gnucash does. Gruß, Christoph

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

I am not familiar with SQLite.  However, general database theory implies that the log files would be useful if you lost the database and had to revert to an earlier backup.  Then you could replay the logs and have the database roll forward to the last transaction recorded in the log files.  Hence,

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

"David T. via gnucash-user" writes: > I am no expert at the SQL back ends, but I was given to understand > that the log files are generated regardless of the back end being > used—but that for the SQL back ends, they aren’t useful, since changes > are written to the file immediately. They are

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Adrien Monteleone writes: > As a linux user trying to use the repo version, I’ve never had to > separately install sqlite to my recollection. Certainly, it’s part of > the preps for building if sqlite support is intended. But even then, I > don’t recall separate installation. It was already

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

"David T." writes: > I apologize. > > I never meant to imply otherwise. Your statement sounded tentative, > and I was seeking definitive confirmation. That’s all. It all depends on the platform and distribution. It *may* be installed, because something else pulled it in. Or it may NOT be

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Adrien Monteleone writes: > Since .gnucash is not really proprietary or somehow a special format > from XML then I agree, the extension should be .xml. The benefit of using .gnucash is that the gnucash-xml file can be auto-loaded into GnuCash and not a generic XML parser. > Combine this with

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Op donderdag 16 augustus 2018 02:33:32 CEST schreef Derek Atkins: > Depends on the platform. > On Linux the sqlite dbd may not come installed. > > -derek > Sent using my mobile device. Please excuse any typos. To clarify this a bit, whether or not sqlite is included in the package as the user

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Adrien Monteleone-2 wrote > Roger that. Curious though if this issue should be addressed in > documentation, or bugzilla. It’s probably a bug if the format can’t make > use of them. They likely should not be generated at all. For those interested: https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=795393

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Stephen M. Butler wrote > Then I think this next section can disappear entirely: > > ... > Gnucash uses the SQL back end to load the entire data store into memory in > the same manner as the XML back end. > ... Steve, and others, I find this piece of information valuable and would vote for

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

> On Aug 15, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Adrien Monteleone > wrote: > > Since .gnucash is not really proprietary or somehow a special format from XML > then I agree, the extension should be .xml. Since the only supported operating system to ever use anything other than file extensions to associate

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

As a linux user trying to use the repo version, I’ve never had to separately install sqlite to my recollection. Certainly, it’s part of the preps for building if sqlite support is intended. But even then, I don’t recall separate installation. It was already there when I checked. I can certainly

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Roger that. Curious though if this issue should be addressed in documentation, or bugzilla. It’s probably a bug if the format can’t make use of them. They likely should not be generated at all. Regards, Adrien > On Aug 15, 2018, at 7:22 PM, David T. wrote: > > > >> On Aug 15, 2018, at 1:35

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

I apologize. I never meant to imply otherwise. Your statement sounded tentative, and I was seeking definitive confirmation. That’s all. > On Aug 15, 2018, at 5:37 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > > I am a developer and Linux user. > I have had to manually install the sqlite dbd. > > -derek > Sent

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Can a developer or linux user confirm this for me? I am neither. > On Aug 15, 2018, at 5:33 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > > Depends on the platform. > On Linux the sqlite dbd may not come installed. > > -derek > Sent using my mobile device. Please excuse any typos. > On August 15, 2018 8:20:03 PM

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Depends on the platform. On Linux the sqlite dbd may not come installed. -derek Sent using my mobile device. Please excuse any typos. On August 15, 2018 8:20:03 PM "David T." wrote: Derek, I understand the point, but my intention on this is to indicate that a user must separately install

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

As you note, backups are not a germane topic here. I will note that Section 2.6 of the Guide is titled “Backing Up and Recovering Data.” Perhaps that section could include further discourse on data backups. David > On Aug 15, 2018, at 3:04 PM, David Carlson > wrote: > > While file backups

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

> On Aug 15, 2018, at 1:35 PM, Adrien Monteleone > wrote: > > Looks pretty clear. > > Though I’m noticing sqlite does generate log files too. Note, these are > transaction replay logs from what I understand in case of a crash. As I > believe John Ralls noted, any of these past the last

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Derek, I understand the point, but my intention on this is to indicate that a user must separately install libdbi libraries in order to use MySQL and PostgreSQL. As I understand it (and from personal experience) I do not have to perform any additional driver installations when I choose either

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

While file backups are not germane to the topic, it might be nice to mention them in passing as the users might tailor their procedure to the particular data type they choose. David C On Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 3:46 PM Derek Atkins wrote: > I believe SQLite is included on Windows as well. > -derek

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

I believe SQLite is included on Windows as well. -derek On Wed, August 15, 2018 4:35 pm, Adrien Monteleone wrote: > Looks pretty clear. > > Though I’m noticing sqlite does generate log files too. Note, these are > transaction replay logs from what I understand in case of a crash. As I > believe

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Looks pretty clear. Though I’m noticing sqlite does generate log files too. Note, these are transaction replay logs from what I understand in case of a crash. As I believe John Ralls noted, any of these past the last successful save are useless. I’m not sure if this is what you are referring

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

On 08/14/2018 10:09 PM, David T. wrote: > Stephen, > > >> On Aug 14, 2018, at 4:50 PM, Stephen M. Butler wrote: >> >> On 08/14/2018 04:24 PM, David T. wrote: >>> Steve, >>> >>> Thanks for your input. I believe we’re in agreement here; I wasn’t trying >>> to suggest that GC become a DBMS, but

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

SQLite uses libdbi, too. -derek On Wed, August 15, 2018 1:49 pm, David T. via gnucash-user wrote: > Here is a newer version of the table: > > Storage Comparison Table > XML SQLite MySQL PostgreSQL > Installation Default Default libdbi libdbi > File extensiongnucash gnucash

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Here is a newer version of the table: Storage Comparison Table XML SQLite MySQL PostgreSQL InstallationDefault Default libdbi libdbi File extension gnucash gnucash N/A N/A Additional software NoneNoneMySQL PostgreSQL Additional expertiseNoneNone

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

> On Aug 15, 2018, at 12:11 PM, David T. wrote: > > > >> On Aug 15, 2018, at 10:02 AM, Adrien Monteleone >> wrote: >> >> But it’s not a ‘plain file’ as it is XML formatted. Someone expecting plain >> text and trying to view it is going to be met with tag soup they’ve never >> seen

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

> On Aug 15, 2018, at 10:08 AM, Adrien Monteleone > wrote: > > >> On Aug 15, 2018, at 10:59 AM, David T. wrote: >> >>> >>> Additionally, the comparison table might serve better with each SQL backend >>> represented, since that’s the next question for someone contemplating that >>>

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Additional sections? What you have here is the overview. So perhaps sections which cover those details are in order for further reading. The overview though should allow someone to make a quick decision at least to determine if they want to investigate further or not without bogging them down

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

> On Aug 15, 2018, at 10:02 AM, Adrien Monteleone > wrote: > > But it’s not a ‘plain file’ as it is XML formatted. Someone expecting plain > text and trying to view it is going to be met with tag soup they’ve never > seen before and might very well not know how to read it. Not to mention

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

> On Aug 15, 2018, at 10:59 AM, David T. wrote: > >> >> Additionally, the comparison table might serve better with each SQL backend >> represented, since that’s the next question for someone contemplating that >> route. And in that case, sqlite does not necessarily require additional >>

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

But it’s not a ‘plain file’ as it is XML formatted. Someone expecting plain text and trying to view it is going to be met with tag soup they’ve never seen before and might very well not know how to read it. It also carries an .xml extension. So specifying the format is very specific and

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Adrien, As I look at implementing your suggestion of a brief comment paired with the table, I encounter a problem. Specifically, many elements of comparison are entirely unexplained anywhere else (indeed, this was the inspiration to take this on in the first place). It seems to me that some

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Christoph, Colin also replied to your note, and I agree with his point regarding the teminology used in GnuCash. Since the program uses “xml,” the documentation should as well. I will also note that “plain file” is inaccurate and misleading; it suggests a simple text file to me. An XML file

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 at 16:37, Christoph R wrote: > Hi David, > > > The default file storage format is XML > > I would not call this “XML" but "plain file”. From a user perspective it > is not important in which internal format it is stored. But it makes a big > difference if it is a simple file

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Adrrien, Thanks for the additional input. > On Aug 14, 2018, at 11:00 PM, Adrien Monteleone > wrote: > > Are the dirty details really necessary? > > I don’t see that they help the user (who may not be well versed in the > issues) to make a decision. I would think simpler in this case would

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Are the dirty details really necessary? I don’t see that they help the user (who may not be well versed in the issues) to make a decision. I would think simpler in this case would be better. If it is clear that GnuCash does not yet take full advantage of SQL and that specifically, you can’t

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Stephen, > On Aug 14, 2018, at 4:50 PM, Stephen M. Butler wrote: > > On 08/14/2018 04:24 PM, David T. wrote: >> Steve, >> >> Thanks for your input. I believe we’re in agreement here; I wasn’t trying to >> suggest that GC become a DBMS, but rather it would learn to utilize DBMS >> features

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

On 08/14/2018 04:24 PM, David T. wrote: > Steve, > > Thanks for your input. I believe we’re in agreement here; I wasn’t trying to > suggest that GC become a DBMS, but rather it would learn to utilize DBMS > features that many seem to expect. > > I’m not great with the appropriate terminology to

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Steve, Thanks for your input. I believe we’re in agreement here; I wasn’t trying to suggest that GC become a DBMS, but rather it would learn to utilize DBMS features that many seem to expect. I’m not great with the appropriate terminology to use. Do you have language I could use that would

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

On 08/14/2018 03:05 PM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote: > Hello, > > In response to Bug 777893 (https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=777893 > ), I have written a more > detailed description of the storage choices available to users for

Re: [GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

David, Here are a few things I noticed. They’re really personal preferences, but making these changes should help this read a little more clearly. -- The second sentence of 2.5.1 is superfluous. > “The default file storage format is XML, while a number of flavors of SQL > storage are

[GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

Hello, In response to Bug 777893 (https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=777893 ), I have written a more detailed description of the storage choices available to users for insertion into the Tutorial & Concepts Guide at section 2.5. Given the