On 12 Oct 2009, at 23:21, Riccardo Mottola wrote:
Hi,
Germán Arias wrote:
El lun, 12-10-2009 a las 19:33 +0200, Michael Thaler escribió:
But so far my experiences weren't that great. I tried to create a
project with project center. No icons are shown at all, so Project
Center is not
Fred Kiefer wrote:
Sergii Stoian schrieb:
2009/10/9 Riccardo Mottola mul...@ngi.it
Many things you want do not clash with other goals, they only divert
manpower. But keep in consideration that in an opensource project people do
whatever they deem interesting or useful, there isn't a central
On 12 Oct 2009, at 10:50, Sergii Stoian wrote:
Fred Kiefer wrote:
Sergii Stoian schrieb:
2009/10/9 Riccardo Mottola mul...@ngi.it
Many things you want do not clash with other goals, they only
divert
manpower. But keep in consideration that in an opensource project
people do
whatever they
Richard Frith-Macdonald wrote:
On 12 Oct 2009, at 10:50, Sergii Stoian wrote:
Fred Kiefer wrote:
Sergii Stoian schrieb:
2009/10/9 Riccardo Mottola mul...@ngi.it
Many things you want do not clash with other goals, they only divert
manpower. But keep in consideration that in an opensource
Hey,
I mean for for some period of time. I gives me some freedom to brake
things without bothering people. One of the reason that drove me to
idea of forking gui+back is when I'm developing Project Center I need
to fix some things after GNUstep svn update. I need some stable
basement for PC
A fork is pointless. All of the points you made are things that would
be welcome changes in GNUstep.
On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Sergii Stoian stoyan...@gmail.com wrote:
Gregory Casamento wrote:
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Sergii Stoian stoyan...@gmail.com wrote:
SNIP
Sure, you're
Sergii Stoian schrieb:
2009/10/9 Riccardo Mottola mul...@ngi.it
Many things you want do not clash with other goals, they only divert
manpower. But keep in consideration that in an opensource project people do
whatever they deem interesting or useful, there isn't a central planning.
Sure,
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Sergii Stoian stoyan...@gmail.com wrote:
SNIP
Sure, you're right! I'm start thinking that fork of gui+back for some period
of time is not such silly thing...
Forking would be bad for the project in general. In my opinion a fork
would only cause confusion. If
On 9 Oct 2009, at 23:45, Fred Kiefer wrote:
David Chisnall schrieb:
Another example is that a lot of classes call
NSDeallocateObject(self) rather than [super dealloc], which has a
negligible performance impact but breaks any category that tries to
replace NSObject's dealloc method.
I
On 9 Oct 2009, at 21:29, Markus Hitter wrote:
Am 09.10.2009 um 20:23 schrieb David Chisnall:
On 9 Oct 2009, at 19:19, Gregory Casamento wrote:
Well, yeah... I do know about pbxbuild since I helped develop it.
The point is that the majority of mac devs expect things to be done
completely
On 9 Oct 2009, at 23:45, Fred Kiefer wrote:
As far as I remember, the text system uses IMP caching at two
places. In
GSHorizontalTypesetter and in NSGlyphGenerator. These two are central
parts of the layout system that need to be fast. But of course GNUstep
has changed since the time these
El 9 de octubre de 2009 21:39, Riccardo Mottola mul...@ngi.it escribió:
Hey,
As a new user I ahve to say I have been trying to use GNUstep for a while
but two weeks ago I found the time to compile and install everything.
So for a new user is not easy to get GNUstep, there are tw problems:
Additionally I really dislike the coding style, not because it's not
mine, but because it fails to make the code more readable. On the
other hand, there was code by Fred which looked really ok, so maybe
it's just about using the coding style in a sane way All I
wanted to say is, that it's
On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 12:52:34AM +0200, Riccardo Mottola wrote:
Hi,
Well, having just glanced at a few docs, depending upon the desired
level of compatibility, the approach outlined above seems reasonable.
Most underline styles seem to have appeared with OSX 10.3 - i.e. the
On 9 Oct 2009, at 13:03, Felix Holmgren wrote:
While I sympathize with David who prefers (or is used) to some
other coding
style,
the GNUstep project needs a consistent coding style and the GNU
coding
standard
are as good a choice as any. Since GNUstep is a GNU project, it's
a natural
Hi!
While I think the wiki is a good idea, it's not a substitute for an
official project page, which needs to say:
- This project is alive.
- This project is shiny.
- This project is actively used by some people.
I'm with you there :)
As much as I love GNUstep base, I do not like GNUstep
Well as I really new GNUstep user, at least for the last week :)
I will try to put my two cents here:
As a new user I ahve to say I have been trying to use GNUstep for a while
but two weeks ago I found the time to compile and install everything.
So for a new user is not easy to get GNUstep, there
On 2009-10-08 02:08:35 +0200 Riccardo Mottola mul...@ngi.it wrote:
Hi all,
I have not had much time to look at GNUMail, but I just set the
delegat to nil in the controllers to avoid the crashes when the
toolbar is trying to dealloc.
I have attached the diff to this mail - but I guess someone
100% agree
2009/10/9 Sergii Stoian stoyan...@gmail.com
Hi, Gregory. Hi, guys.
I can't resist expressing my opinion on GNUstep changes as I see it.
I've defined several problem areas of GNUstep:
1. Maturity of GNUstep code for developers (functionality, docs, stability)
2. GUI appearance
While I sympathize with David who prefers (or is used) to some other coding
style,
the GNUstep project needs a consistent coding style and the GNU coding
standard
are as good a choice as any. Since GNUstep is a GNU project, it's a natural
choice.
Given that part of the aim of GNUstep is
Am 09.10.2009 um 11:27 schrieb Sergii Stoian:
World (all stuff outside of GNUstep) acceptance of GNUstep as
alternative developer framework that will help creating of
alternative desktop environment.
Now I can't resist to comment either ;-)
Platforms aren't just a set of kernel and
See below...
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Markus Hitter m...@jump-ing.de wrote:
Am 09.10.2009 um 11:27 schrieb Sergii Stoian:
World (all stuff outside of GNUstep) acceptance of GNUstep as alternative
developer framework that will help creating of alternative desktop
environment.
Now I
On 9 Oct 2009, at 16:34, Gregory Casamento wrote:
I'm sorry to hear this. GNUstep, in my opinion, does need something
similar to Cocotron's SDK. Dr. Schaller has already made something
similar for ARM so that he can cross compile for the ARM platform so
it's not terribly difficult... it's
On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:06:45 +0300, Markus Hitter m...@jump-ing.de wrote:
Am 09.10.2009 um 11:27 schrieb Sergii Stoian:
World (all stuff outside of GNUstep) acceptance of GNUstep as
alternative developer framework that will help creating of alternative
desktop environment.
Now I can't
Stef,
This does seem to be the consensus
Now we need help to actually make it happen.
GC
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Stef Bidi stefanb...@gmail.com wrote:
Forgot to reply to all!
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Nicola Pero
nicola.p...@meta-innovation.com wrote:
It would
Sergii, please see below.
Am 09.10.2009 um 17:34 schrieb Gregory Casamento:
Command line stuff is - well many users don't
know what a command line is, after all.
?? I'm not sure what you mean here.
Well, malfunctions in GNUstep are often answered by a few text
commands which fix
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 1:37 AM, Nicola Pero
nicola.p...@meta-innovation.com wrote:
Additionally I really dislike the coding style, not because it's not
mine, but because it fails to make the code more readable. On the
other hand, there was code by Fred which looked really ok, so maybe
it's
Le 9 oct. 2009 à 20:48, Matt Rice a écrit :
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 1:37 AM, Nicola Pero
nicola.p...@meta-innovation.com wrote:
By the way the GNU coding standards are not bad, in fact I
personally like
them (mostly because
my eyesight is really bad and whitespace is much more effective at
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Quentin Mathé qma...@gmail.com wrote:
Le 9 oct. 2009 à 20:48, Matt Rice a écrit :
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 1:37 AM, Nicola Pero
nicola.p...@meta-innovation.com wrote:
By the way the GNU coding standards are not bad, in fact I personally
like
them (mostly
Am 09.10.2009 um 20:23 schrieb David Chisnall:
On 9 Oct 2009, at 19:19, Gregory Casamento wrote:
Well, yeah... I do know about pbxbuild since I helped develop it.
The point is that the majority of mac devs expect things to be done
completely from the mac.
My point was that this is
Hey,
I think you have many good points there. However, GNUstep is a wide
project and targets many different users.
Many things you want do not clash with other goals, they only divert
manpower. But keep in consideration that in an opensource project people
do whatever they deem interesting or
Hey,
Gregory Casamento wrote:
Accordingly, work on e.g. a GNUstep terminal app is pointless, as there are
two dozen other terminal apps out there already. Strongly preferring
WindowMaker is plain counter productive.
I believe we need to start integrating better with other
Hi, Riccardo.
2009/10/9 Riccardo Mottola mul...@ngi.it
Hey,
I think you have many good points there. However, GNUstep is a wide project
and targets many different users.
Many things you want do not clash with other goals, they only divert
manpower. But keep in consideration that in an
I'm not a huge fan of the gnu coding standards. To me if the code is
good and makes sense the formatting is secondary.
On Friday, October 9, 2009, Matt Rice ratm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Quentin Mathé qma...@gmail.com wrote:
Le 9 oct. 2009 à 20:48, Matt Rice a écrit
David Chisnall schrieb:
IMP caching is a bit more complicated. The new runtime supports a means
of invalidating IMP caches, which means that the compiler will be able
to automatically insert (polymorphic) IMP caching and even speculatively
inline methods. Doing this well will require
By the way the GNU coding standards are not bad, in fact I
personally like
them (mostly because
my eyesight is really bad and whitespace is much more effective at
separating tokens than
brackets or commas). There are some details I'd change, but they
certainly
are not an unusual
or
On 7 Oct 2009, at 23:37, Riccardo Mottola wrote:
Richard, could you add the ability to change the theme icon in
Thematic?
It's already there ... just click on it, and an open panel will come
up for you to select the new icon image.
___
On 7 Oct 2009, at 23:00, David Chisnall wrote:
On 7 Oct 2009, at 22:38, Matt Rice wrote:
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Stef Bidi stefanb...@gmail.com
wrote:
snip
13.0) there's not way for me
to set a default, preferred theme--which is what the GUI
toolkits above
allow you to
On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 02:08:35AM +0200, Riccardo Mottola wrote:
There are multiple terminal applications (gap, backbone, etoile ?) but
none really usable (to my knowledge, maybe I missed something).
These are harsh words? I don't know of etoile, but the one in GAP works.
I use it
On 8 Oct 2009, at 07:29, Richard Frith-Macdonald wrote:
GlobalDefaults.plist does that.
Two questions then:
- Is this actually documented anywhere? I see a vague reference to it
in NSUserDefaults, but packagers are absolutely not going to read API
docs (and should not be expected to.
On 8 Oct 2009, at 10:32, David Chisnall wrote:
On 8 Oct 2009, at 07:29, Richard Frith-Macdonald wrote:
GlobalDefaults.plist does that.
Two questions then:
- Is this actually documented anywhere? I see a vague reference to
it in NSUserDefaults, but packagers are absolutely not going to
On 8 Oct 2009, at 11:50, Richard Frith-Macdonald wrote:
- How does this allow a packager to install and remove defaults as
part of package installation / uninstallation? Presumably you can
use plmerge to install them (again, is this documented anywhere?),
but how do you uninstall them?
On 8 Oct 2009, at 12:00, David Chisnall wrote:
On 8 Oct 2009, at 11:50, Richard Frith-Macdonald wrote:
- How does this allow a packager to install and remove defaults as
part of package installation / uninstallation? Presumably you can
use plmerge to install them (again, is this
Philippe Roussel wrote:
On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 02:08:35AM +0200, Riccardo Mottola wrote:
There are multiple terminal applications (gap, backbone,
etoile ?) but
none really usable (to my knowledge, maybe I missed something).
These are harsh words? I don't know of etoile, but the one in GAP
On 8 Oct 2009, at 12:46, David Chisnall wrote:
On 8 Oct 2009, at 12:22, Richard Frith-Macdonald wrote:
You are right, I did misunderstand ... I understood the term
'packager' to refer to the person/people responsible for providing
GNUstep with a distribution ... ie for a set of packages
On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 02:10:31PM +0200, Wolfgang Lux wrote:
The services do work. However, you first must change one of the services
in Terminal's preferences or add a new one before Terminal will save the
necessary file to $GNUSTEP_USER_HOME/Library/Services. It took me a
while
until I
On 8 Oct 2009, at 13:30, Richard Frith-Macdonald wrote:
it's up to the packaging systems used by the distribution how they
do things, the task is much the same as with any other software, not
a GNUstep specific issue, and it's really not our concern how
packagers for different
We need to:
1) improve our website. It's been the same for years and doesn't
reflect our progress.
2) improve GNUstep's default theme as well as theming in general.
While I know some people will respond negatively to changing the
default theme from a NeXT-like look to something more modern, I
That's not a reason to change the default theme. It's a reason to try
to develop at least one good alternative theme. You should not be
proposing a change which will provoke argument when the alternative
would achieve the same in a relatively non-contentious way/
If/when a genuinely better
Hi!
1) improve our website. It's been the same for years and doesn't
reflect our progress.
IMHO the GNUstep wiki main page currently is more informative than the
plain www.gnustep.org front page. The wiki does a good job of showing
project progress, too.
2) improve GNUstep's default
On 7 Oct 2009, at 22:12, ici...@mail.cg.tuwien.ac.at wrote:
Hi!
1) improve our website. It's been the same for years and doesn't
reflect our progress.
IMHO the GNUstep wiki main page currently is more informative than
the plain www.gnustep.org front page. The wiki does a good job of
It would undoubtedly be good to have some packager-specific
documentation, but obviously the target readership is a very small
group
We *do* have packager documentation, in
core/make/README.Packaging
Feel free to add a short section about what was discussed here. :-)
- How
On 8 Oct 2009, at 16:45, Nicola Pero wrote:
It would undoubtedly be good to have some packager-specific
documentation, but obviously the target readership is a very small
group
We *do* have packager documentation, in
core/make/README.Packaging
Yes, but I was meaning on the website
[trimmed out the discuss list]
On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 03:42:38PM +0100, David Chisnall wrote:
[on gui]
There are also some plainly embarrassing bugs, like the fact that underlining
still doesn't work.
Useful to know, I was about to try using it :-)
Much of the text system code is in
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:30 AM, Richard Frith-Macdonald
rich...@tiptree.demon.co.uk wrote:
OK ... we just have different perceptions here then. In those circumstances
I expect a package to be *available* to all users, but NOT to be
automatically forced on them.
Certainly *I* don't want to
On 8 Oct 2009, at 17:16, Derek Fawcus wrote:
[trimmed out the discuss list]
On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 03:42:38PM +0100, David Chisnall wrote:
[on gui]
There are also some plainly embarrassing bugs, like the fact that
underlining still doesn't work.
Useful to know, I was about to try using
On 8 Oct 2009, at 17:29, Matt Rice wrote:
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:30 AM, Richard Frith-Macdonald
rich...@tiptree.demon.co.uk wrote:
OK ... we just have different perceptions here then. In those
circumstances
I expect a package to be *available* to all users, but NOT to be
automatically
ToÂ: Developer GNUstep gnustep-dev@gnu.org
On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 05:43:55PM +0100, David Chisnall wrote:
On 8 Oct 2009, at 17:16, Derek Fawcus wrote:
On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 03:42:38PM +0100, David Chisnall wrote:
There are also some plainly embarrassing bugs, like the fact that
underlining
On 8 Oct 2009, at 18:22, Pablo Giménez wrote:
Why Etoile and gnustep? I think that know etoile and gnustep should
be working together in the same project, so you guys can provide a
global computing environment, like Mac basically.
Étoilé and GNUstep have different goals.
The aim of
Hi,
Ok, I went too far, Terminal works. But I doesn't answer to
'Terminal/Open shell here' service needed by GWorkspace for example.
Running midnight commander inside it is... interesting. But yes, it
works as a terminal for most things. Sorry :o)
If you want we can work on that.
Don't
On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 12:32:42AM +0200, Riccardo Mottola wrote:
Hi,
Ok, I went too far, Terminal works. But I doesn't answer to
'Terminal/Open shell here' service needed by GWorkspace for example.
Running midnight commander inside it is... interesting. But yes, it
works as a terminal for
Hi,
Well, having just glanced at a few docs, depending upon the desired
level of compatibility, the approach outlined above seems reasonable.
Most underline styles seem to have appeared with OSX 10.3 - i.e. the following:
The real problem is not if it is dotted or continuous
the
Forgot to reply to all!
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Nicola Pero
nicola.p...@meta-innovation.com wrote:
It would undoubtedly be good to have some packager-specific
documentation, but obviously the target readership is a very small
group
We *do* have packager documentation, in
Am 08.10.2009 um 12:50 schrieb Richard Frith-Macdonald:
On 8 Oct 2009, at 10:32, David Chisnall wrote:
On 8 Oct 2009, at 07:29, Richard Frith-Macdonald wrote:
GlobalDefaults.plist does that.
Two questions then:
- Is this actually documented anywhere? I see a vague reference
to it in
Guys,
There are a number of things which need to change on the project:
We need to:
1) improve our website. It's been the same for years and doesn't
reflect our progress.
2) improve GNUstep's default theme as well as theming in general.
While I know some people will respond negatively to
On 7 Oct 2009, at 20:24, Gregory Casamento wrote:
Guys,
There are a number of things which need to change on the project:
We need to:
1) improve our website. It's been the same for years and doesn't
reflect our progress.
I've been dissatisfied with it too. Not the basic appearance, which
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:24:01 -0400
From: greg.casame...@gmail.com
To: discuss-gnus...@gnu.org; gnustep-dev@gnu.org
CC:
Subject: Changes I've been thinking of...
Guys,
There are a number of things which need to change on the project:
We need
I'll just give my opinion on each topic...
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Gregory Casamento
greg.casame...@gmail.comwrote:
1) improve our website. It's been the same for years and doesn't
reflect our progress.
I agree here. A while back, myself an Jesse from the Etoile project
started,
Hey
I believe it's one way for us to spark interest in the project is to
update it's look.
That's not a reason to change the default theme. It's a reason to try to
develop at least one good alternative theme. You should not be proposing a
change which will provoke argument when the
Hi
On Wed, Oct 07, 2009 at 03:24:01PM -0400, Gregory Casamento wrote:
Guys,
There are a number of things which need to change on the project:
We need to:
1) improve our website. It's been the same for years and doesn't
reflect our progress.
For me, the one thing that really lowers
On 7 Oct 2009, at 22:38, Matt Rice wrote:
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Stef Bidi stefanb...@gmail.com
wrote:
snip
13.0) there's not way for me
to set a default, preferred theme--which is what the GUI toolkits
above
allow you to do--there is just no way for me to do that. I know
Hi,
The first, and most obvious, is that GNUstep theming is still very young.
Apart from Camaleon (does it still work?) and some of Riccardo's themes
there's nothing out there.
Thank you for citing the effort. It is indeed very young. I was also
amazed at the little response it got, given
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Philippe Roussel p.o.rous...@free.fr wrote:
Hi
What I'm trying to say is that I think we should try to centralize
things (one repository for all !) and work on a set of defined
applications instead of collecting random stuff.
Yuck.
first of all, this is
Hi,
Philippe Roussel wrote:
For me, the one thing that really lowers GNUstep credibility is the
super high 'bitrot factor' : a lot of the software found in the wiki
is outdated, or it's website disappeared, or it won't compile or it's
almost useless. Building the core librairies is good (thanks
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